Considering a Nissan Leaf - sanity check please?!!

Benny_Cake

Hi folks,
I'm hoping to change the car later this year and I'm quite taken with the idea of going electric, particularly given the PCP options with the Nissan Leaf at the moment. Gadgets and new tech are a bit of a vice for me so I want to make an informed decision - I thought I'd run over some of my needs in a car here so that you can tell me if I'm crazy or not! Primary appeal would be the greatly reduced running costs and maintanence, as well as the benefits to the environment. It would be our only car, my wife doesn't currently drive.

I currently drive a 10 year old Mondeo diesel which has been a reliable enough lump of metal but is definitely showing it's age. It's cost me quite a bit in maintenance in the last year and with road tax costing around the 700 euro mark, it's just too expensive to run, nor do I need a car of that size. My daily commute is 50 km (round trip), I also take a spin to Dublin city centre most weekends (80km round trip) and call over to my parents every other weekend (100km round trip). A few times a year we go to stay with my in-laws in North Tipp - about 120km door-to-door. My understanding is that the range on the Leaf would be perfectly adequate for these trips, with the exception of a drive to Tipperary but there are fast charge points on the M7 at Monasterevin and Portlaoise anyway so I've no problem with the idea of pulling in for a coffee for 20 minutes. I live in Naas and I know there is at least one fast charge point there as well.

Usually we might go away for a weekend once or twice a year, but no more than that. To be honest, if I was taking a break that involved a lot of driving I'd be prepared to consider hiring an ICE if I felt that the charging infrastructure wouldn't support making the trip in a Leaf.

I would always have ruled out going electric until the range reaches 300-400 km (I'm sure it will sometime in the next few years, hence why going the PCP route seems like a good idea). I actually use the car quite a bit, but when I thought about it I realised that my longest journeys aren't all that long. Any thoughts?

toadfly

Sounds perfect to be honest. You really won't have to rely on the public chargers at all with those distances, if you get a granny cable you can charge at the in-laws.

My commute is 85km a day, mainly motorway and I do it no issues most days. But then I don't like to drive like a granny. If it's particularly windy I may need a top up, or I just avoid the motorway on the way home and made it no problem.

Longest journey I've done without a stop is Galway-North Mayo, 120km in a 2012 so the newer model you will get more out of. Ive been to Cork, Mayo & Dublin airport in mine several times from Galway, the public chargers are a bitch but the odd time I do longer journeys its worth it for the cheaper day to day running costs. I save around €150/month since changing from 1.4 diesel.

Any questions, just ask.

homer911

and Nissan are doing a €4k scrappage deal at the moment..

Benny_Cake

toadfly wrote: »

Longest journey I've done without a stop is Galway-North Mayo, 120km in a 2012 so the newer model you will get more out of. Ive been to Cork, Mayo & Dublin airport in mine several times from Galway, the public chargers are a bitch but the odd time I do longer journeys its worth it for the cheaper day to day running costs. I save around €150/month since changing from 1.4 diesel.

Any questions, just ask.

Quite reassuring that using one over longer distances is feasible, not that distances in Ireland are ever extremely long. Have you had problems with public chargers? One of the complaints I've seen a bit of is that chargers are out of service, or that standard cars are parked in charging bays.

homer911 wrote: »

and Nissan are doing a €4k scrappage deal at the moment..

Only saw that this week. Unfortunately, scrappage or no scrappage, I just don't have the finances at the moment - sods law! It'll probably be towards the end of this year before I do.

Sabre Man

You will probably get more feedback on https://www.facebook.com/groups/irishevowners/ if you're on Facebook.

You may also want to consider the Renault Zoe.

H.E. Pennypacker

homer911 wrote: »

and Nissan are doing a €4k scrappage deal at the moment..

Unfortunately they're not including the Leaf in that offer:

"Available on Micra, Note Juke and Pulsar Models only"

http://www.nissan.ie/offers/new-vehicles/nissan-scrappage-%E2%82%AC4000

Edit: This implies otherwise but its still not official:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94060593&postcount=42

mcgarrett

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Unfortunately they're not including the Leaf in that offer:

"Available on Micra, Note Juke and Pulsar Models only"

http://www.nissan.ie/offers/new-vehicles/nissan-scrappage-%E2%82%AC4000

Edit: This implies otherwise but its still not official:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94060593&postcount=42

They are offering the 4k scrappage on the Windsor Motors site.
Have a daily commute of 160kms with an option of charging while at work. Seriously considering but just not sure if I'm asking for trouble down the road when it clocks up big mileage.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Unfortunately they're not including the Leaf in that offer:

"Available on Micra, Note Juke and Pulsar Models only"

http://www.nissan.ie/offers/new-vehicles/nissan-scrappage-%E2%82%AC4000

Edit: This implies otherwise but its still not official:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94060593&postcount=42

They've added it
There is even a finance example online for the scrappage deal for the leaf.

I love the Leaf. Have it a week now and I wouldn't go back to petrol or diesel as my daily driver again.

We do have the diesel for the really long trips if I think charging will be unconvenient.

I do about 133kms a day and would get away with a10 min fast charge but top up a bit more until I get the home change point. Currently charging of the portable evse (aka granny lead)

The Chevy bolt with a claimed 200 miles range is due next year if you want to hold off until then though 50 Kms round trip power day is perfect for the Leaf. Even if you decide to keep it after pcp it should last you a long time.

shanemkelly

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Am going in this afternoon to have a chat about the PCP so might fling the sums up here if anyone's interested...

BTW, serious credit to Mad_Lad on his postings! Very informative & interesting. Best of luck with your Leaf!

reboot

Sabre Man wrote: »

You will probably get more feedback on https://www.facebook.com/groups/irishevowners/ if you're on Facebook.

You may also want to consider the Renault Zoe.

myrenaultzoe.com and chat to Dexter

Benny_Cake

shanemkelly wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Am going in this afternoon to have a chat about the PCP so might fling the sums up here if anyone's interested...

I'd be interested in hearing how you got on!

Still very much on the fence myself. As I got some expensive work done on the car at the end of last year (dual-mass flywheel - at least EV's don't have those!) I'd like to get some more use from it. I always buy second-hand and if I don't go the EV route that's what I'll do this time.

sgalvin

I have been looking at this over the past few days and I'm finding it harder to say no.

Current have a 2003 1.8 petrol Mazda 150,000 miles, was looking for an automatic but came across this offer on the leaf.
My commute is 70km return 5 days and my wife takes it on Saturdays @100km.
Car isn't used for anything else as my wife's car is bigger for all the kid stuff

Current
tax is when paid 6 monthly €700/year
Spending €50/week on petrol €2,500/year
Timing belt/clutch/brake discs/surprise breakdown will be €500/year
Allow depreciation / car replacement €750/year
Servicing 1 major/1 minor €300/year
TOTAL €4,750

New LEAF
Tax €120/year
Service €100/year
Repayments €389x12mths (5 year term) €4,700 year
Insurance is lower by €120/year
Elec estimate €250
TOTAL €5,050


So for €300/year I can have a new car!
And
After the 5 years I'm up €4,700/year!

It's nearly self financing or am I missing anything?


Whilst I have always bought used cars for economic reasons, I don't think it applies here.
Look at the used prices for a 2012 leaf!
As a global product and sold in big(ish) numbers you would think that most faults would be ironed out.
There really isn't much mechanically to go wrong no clutch, dmf, timing belt, gear shift, starter alternator, turbo etc, yes there is a motor but is one rotating part.

I always see the economic arguments put against a modern diesel model with a figure of 4-4.5 l/100km which is the official fuel consumption figures. My wife has one of those and real world fuel consumption is about 2l/100km higher when driven normally (not fast not slow)

I have driven the fluence ze and was impressed with it. The best price I saw from a dealer for a 2012 was €11k (half new price) +€6k battery rental over 5 years brings it up to the same price. The lack of a fast charge, parts availability and the never ending lease might make it worthless after 5 years.


Thoughts or am I mad?

I'm finding I would need to be at a change point by 100 Kms or 60 odd miles in the cold spell we're having lately. That's at speeds of about 80-100 Kms. if work install the change point then I really won't have any restrictions with speed.

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm finding I would need to be at a change point by 100 Kms or 60 odd miles in the cold spell we're having lately. That's at speeds of about 80-100 Kms. if work install the change point then I really won't have any restrictions with speed.

If you have a granny cable do you need anymore than a socket - depending on where you park, it could be on a lamp post ..

sgalvin

sgalvin wrote: »

I have been looking at this over the past few days and I'm finding it harder to say no.

Thoughts or am I mad?

You won't save money buying a new car but you can save money towards the repayments by the cheap electricity costs and motor tax and savings on servicing.

I wouldn't buy any car over 5 years and went on pcp over 3, electrics are evolving at a rate which would prevent me buying a new one over 5 years. if the Chevy bolt is as good as GM claim and does offer 200 miles range I might trade in the Leaf. Depends on the car.

5 years is a long time to keep the current gen electrics. the kia soul ev is probably the best out there at the moment but kia Ireland decided the Irish people
would not have the interest and didn't even advertise it's existence of put up a register your interest in their website. Instead they decided for the Irish people what we want our don't want.

The soul was tested s having 100 miles range at 100 kph at 2 0 degrees c.

Markcheese

With the pcps doesn't a lot come down to the guaranteed value at the end of the lease- and the milage limits? How do they factor in battery condition ?

They don't factor battery condition.

If you do less miles they you pay a lot less than probably I do.

With pcp you pay interest and deprecation with hire purchase or bank loan you pay interest on the full amount of the loan but at least you own it at the end. I don't want to own the Leaf because I know much greater electrics are only 1-3 years away, the Chevy bolt coming next year according to GM worth a claimed 200 mile range.

The gfv is your balloon which you should have enough value in the car to go to a new contract if it's in good condition. You will end up paying for another 3 years. Or pay the balloon and is yours.

Benny_Cake

Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies, it's been an education. Still a while away from making a move, but would like to book a test drive or two.

I want to consider all options, so I'm prepared to consider the Zoe as well. I know that the Zoe has a great charger for the SCP points, but in terms of the fast charger network - how well is it catered for (what long distance driving I do tends to involve the M7 - it would be useful to be able to fast charge to J14, Midway or Roscrea for example).

Benny_Cake

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies, it's been an education. Still a while away from making a move, but would like to book a test drive or two.

I want to consider all options, so I'm prepared to consider the Zoe as well. I know that the Zoe has a great charger for the SCP points, but in terms of the fast charger network - how well is it catered for (what long distance driving I do tends to involve the M7 - it would be useful to be able to fast charge to J14, Midway or Roscrea for example).

No rush, take your time and make sure you know the limitations of the current gen electrics.

If you check the Ecars charge point map, look at the fast charge points marked in blue and it should say dc and ac that should mean the fast chargers are equipped for the Zoe.

Zoe indeed, has a terrific on board charger, the most advanced of any EV in the world, including the Tesla's !!!

Dexter1979

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I want to consider all options, so I'm prepared to consider the Zoe as well. I know that the Zoe has a great charger for the SCP points, but in terms of the fast charger network - how well is it catered for (what long distance driving I do tends to involve the M7 - it would be useful to be able to fast charge to J14, Midway or Roscrea for example).

Midway has a AC fast charger. J14 is a 22 kW unit which will give you half the speed. Compared to a Leaf it's a heck of a lot faster, even if you have the 6kW optional extra on the Leaf. Never been to Roscrea but I believe it's a triple standard fast charger.

I'm due to go to Dublin early March and last time I charged in Urlingford and J14. On the way back I left Dublin airport on a full charge and made it to Portlaoise. Then had to charge in Urlingford again since Cashel was out but made it all the way home (110km) with 20km range remaining. Drove a bit slower to preserve battery. Had to as there was no real place to charge. Fermoy might have been an option.

It's in one of my video blogs. youtube .com / dexie1979

Zoe is a great little car and a different beast compared to a Leaf.

Benny_Cake

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Midway has a AC fast charger. J14 is a 22 kW unit which will give you half the speed. Compared to a Leaf it's a heck of a lot faster, even if you have the 6kW optional extra on the Leaf. Never been to Roscrea but I believe it's a triple standard fast charger.

I'm due to go to Dublin early March and last time I charged in Urlingford and J14. On the way back I left Dublin airport on a full charge and made it to Portlaoise. Then had to charge in Urlingford again since Cashel was out but made it all the way home (110km) with 20km range remaining. Drove a bit slower to preserve battery. Had to as there was no real place to charge. Fermoy might have been an option.

It's in one of my video blogs. youtube .com / dexie1979

Zoe is a great little car and a different beast compared to a Leaf.

Think I've seen your video blogs Dexter - very informative and it looks like a fun car to drive!

Just wondering what the dealer experience has been like for Zoe drivers? I've seen a few posts on various forums praising the car but giving out yards about the experience of dealing with Renault dealerships. I'm in Naas but the local Renault dealer doesn't advertise the Leaf so if I could find a good dealer to do a test drive with in the Dublin area, that would be great.

ei9go

sgalvin wrote: »

I have driven the fluence ze and was impressed with it. The best price I saw from a dealer for a 2012 was €11k (half new price) +€6k battery rental over 5 years brings it up to the same price. The lack of a fast charge, parts availability and the never ending lease might make it worthless after 5 years.


Thoughts or am I mad?

Saw a post on one of the EV forums from a dealer in IRL saying that they had sold a Fluence for 5500 Euro.

Nearly every Renault dealer has at least one thats abandoned out the back because they are unsaleable due to the battery rental and no fast charger.

There is one up on the roof in H&H Motors in Waterford.

Dexter1979

Dexter1979 wrote: »

I left Dublin airport on a full charge and made it to Portlaoise.

Are the charge points in Dublin Airport capable of more than 3 Kw ? Do you have to book them ?

Do you know if the fast charger in the Topaz on the way out of the airport is active yet ?

Markcheese

ei9go wrote: »

Saw a post on one of the EV forums from a dealer in IRL saying that they had sold a Fluence for 5500 Euro.

Nearly every Renault dealer has at least one thats abandoned out the back because they are unsaleable due to the battery rental and no fast charger.

There is one up on the roof in H&H Motors in Waterford.

Does anyone on here know what they're like to drive? Range ect . Very little info on renault Ireland's site .

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Does anyone on here know what they're like to drive? Range ect . Very little info on renault Ireland's site .

To be honest, you'd probably make money on the Fluence by selling it's electronic components, especially the battery !

The battery would make a very nice storage system for a wind or solar system for someone who would like to live off grid and avoid energy costs and taxes.

To buy the Fluence EV you'd seriously have to think about the fact you can't fast charge and if you can live with a range of about 60 miles in winter.

It would make an ideal 2nd run-a-bout for doing the short trips that's bad for petrol and diesel cars. 60 ish miles isn't too bad really for someone who just does school and shop runs mainly.

5-6 K for a car that costs a fraction of running a petrol or diesel car isn't a bad deal either.

sgalvin

I spoke to a dealer last month and they were looking for €11k for 2012 with small miles +€1,200 battery lease for 16,000 km/yr
On 5 years that's €17,000
A new leaf (albeit a basic one) is not much more on scrappage and I would think be worth more in 5 years time.

Plenty in the UK at 5-6k but must have UK address and credit history to take out the battery lease there.

Unless they are genuinely offloading them now.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest, you'd probably make money on the Fluence by selling it's electronic components, especially the battery !

The battery would make a very nice storage system for a wind or solar system for someone who would like to live off grid and avoid energy costs and taxes.

To buy the Fluence EV you'd seriously have to think about the fact you can't fast charge and if you can live with a range of about 60 miles in winter.

It would make an ideal 2nd run-a-bout for doing the short trips that's bad for petrol and diesel cars. 60 ish miles isn't too bad really for someone who just does school and shop runs mainly.

5-6 K for a car that costs a fraction of running a petrol or diesel car isn't a bad deal either.

sgalvin

sgalvin wrote: »

I spoke to a dealer last month and they were looking for €11k for 2012 with small miles +€1,200 battery lease for 16,000 km/yr
On 5 years that's €17,000
A new leaf (albeit a basic one) is not much more on scrappage and I would think be worth more in 5 years time.

Plenty in the UK at 5-6k but must have UK address and credit history to take out the battery lease there.

Unless they are genuinely offloading them now.

I would rather lease the whole car than the battery.

The mid spec Leaf is a lot better from 132 on if you could get a decent one 2nd hand and go with the PCP option on that.

See how much it would cost you per month with the mileage you choose, you'd be surprised how little it would cost if you can provide a decent deposit.

Only thing is the balloon which I won't have to pay because I intend to hop into the gen II with more range but think about this if you want to have to pay it or not.

PCP isn't for everyone.

Dexter1979

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Think I've seen your video blogs Dexter - very informative and it looks like a fun car to drive!

Thank you and yes it is. No emotions were faked during the filming of those episodes

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Just wondering what the dealer experience has been like for Zoe drivers? I've seen a few posts on various forums praising the car but giving out yards about the experience of dealing with Renault dealerships. I'm in Naas but the local Renault dealer doesn't advertise the Leaf so if I could find a good dealer to do a test drive with in the Dublin area, that would be great.

The dealer experience varies greatly. Renault are not pushing Zoe hard enough and most dealers I have seen don't have anything prominent other than a few leaflets that explain that the car is electric. I got my mudflaps fitted and spoke to 2 people looking at the Zoe Zen model they had and none knew that the car was electric.

Take one out for a spin if you can. I took both the Leaf and the Zoe and they are very different.

Benny_Cake

Dexter1979 wrote: »

The dealer experience varies greatly. Renault are not pushing Zoe hard enough and most dealers I have seen don't have anything prominent other than a few leaflets that explain that the car is electric. I got my mudflaps fitted and spoke to 2 people looking at the Zoe Zen model they had and none knew that the car was electric.

Take one out for a spin if you can. I took both the Leaf and the Zoe and they are very different.

Seems to be a running theme regarding dealers. Electric cars are potentially disruptive to a long standing business model, particularly the uncertainty regarding resale values and the fact that they should require less ongoing maintenance than a petrol or diesel car. That might explain the ambivalence. Obviously that isn't an issue for Tesla, who don't sell through dealers.

I'm hoping to take the Zoe for a spin tomorrow

Irish dealers don't want to re-train their staff and spend money on new equipment for what they see is a very small number of electrics sold nationwide never mind anywhere near their garage. I'm betting this is one reason Kia Ireland decided not to import the Kia soul EV, their excuse of course being they don't feel Irish people will be interested in it. They didn't even advertise it on the Irish website. If people are buying the Leaf then surely they'll buy the Soul EV ?