Dublin school cancels workshop on homophobic bullying, saying “both sides should be r

One eyed Jack

Daith wrote: »

Ill judged for the school who messed up.

A communications error compounded by an erroneous communication. This could easily have been resolved without all the unnecessary publicity.

oceanclub

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Suppose that makes sense. Parents usually informed when workshop take place instead of normal classes.

They didn't say that to the person who was due to give the course; in her own words:

https://twitter.com/Bellaknit/status/560125330024071168

Today was mental - went to give an anti homophobic bullying workshop to TY students, but was cancelled on arrival due 2 parents complaints

P.

K4t

Daith wrote: »

Schools are supposed to tackle homophobic bullying. Emphasis on homophobic. It's very clear actually.

http://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-bullying-1082034-Sep2013/

I have no problem with that. But the situation which has arisen has not surprised me.

The_Valeyard

oceanclub wrote: »

They didn't say that to the person who was due to give the course; in her own words:

https://twitter.com/Bellaknit/status/560125330024071168



P.

The workshop group might not have said it, but that's what may have happened?

Daith

One eyed Jack wrote: »

A communications error compounded by an erroneous communication. This could easily have been resolved without all the unnecessary publicity.

Which is the schools fault. Cancelling an event with a half an hour notice then not giving them an answer after repeated attempts.

The school messed up.

Meangadh

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

That's just the old Irish language man, perfectly explains such a bafflingly conservative stance.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

From what I've heard, Gaelscoils are more conservative-minded than non-Gaelscoils. Maybe it's some de Valeraesque fantasy of a Gaelic, Catholic Ireland at play here.

AndonHandon wrote: »

Typical closed-minded Gaelgoir attitude; too stubborn to change their attitude and snobbery with Irish. This is unsurprising.

Even though as an Irish speaker and someone who loves the language I should be insulted, all I could do was laugh here considering anyone who knows anything about Gaelscoileanna would know that nowadays you probably couldn't find more a middle-class, non-traditional, non-conservative crowd. To the point where traditional Gaelgóirí often lament the passing of the old days of the Gaelscoileanna. They couldn't be less DeValera if they tried.

It has absolutely nothing to do with this particular issue. But don't let that get in the way of your Gaeilge-bashing.

haveringchick wrote: »

It's possible that there were complaints/objections from parents. My daughter's school had a vvisit from the Rose of Tralee and she spoke to morning assembly and mentioned in passing the fact that she is gay, doesn't let it define her etc.
There were complaints afterwards from some parents.

I'd suspect possibly one of these two things has happened- either they hadn't fully sought permission from parents to run the workshop (often schools seek permission from parents via a signed letter before running RSE- related programmes in schools) or else a parent objected. I really hope it was the former, because if it's the latter, I worry about parent power in our schools.

oceanclub

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The workshop group might not have said it, but that's what may have happened?

Here's what I think; they panicked and told her it was cancelled, full stop. Now that the story was gone Full Streisand, they're rowing back and saying it's only postponed.

P.

The_Valeyard

Daith wrote: »

Which is the schools fault. Cancelling an event with a half an hour notice then not giving them an answer after repeated attempts.

The school messed up.

Possibly, yes. But not for homophobic or anti-gay reasons that some were possibly suggesting earlier. With more information all will become clear.

Daith

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Possibly, yes. But not for homophobic or anti-gay reasons that some were possibly suggesting earlier. With more information all will become clear.

"some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop."

It's a workshop about homophobic bullying.

Donkey Oaty

Meangadh wrote: »

I'd suspect possibly one of these two things has happened- either they hadn't fully sought permission from parents to run the workshop (often schools seek permission from parents via a signed letter before running RSE- related programmes in schools) or else a parent objected.

Or possibly a last-minute cancellation by the priest who was due to perform the post-workshop exorcism.

The_Valeyard

Daith wrote: »

"some had a difficulty with the topic of LGBT issues being raised at the workshop."

It's a workshop about homophobic bullying.

Parents had probleny, not school.
They had been speaking in the school couple of times before. Was never a problem. Probably just admin error regarding letters home or parental opt-outs.

One eyed Jack

aunt aggie wrote: »

Doesn't make sense... Schools have a legal responsibility to provide relationships education including anti bullying and sex ed. Parents are usually just informed and there's nothing they can do about it. They cant change school policy and the laws of the country because of their own beliefs.

I'm not sure where you get your information, but none of the above is actually correct.

Schools have no legal responsibility to provide relationships education including anti-bullying and sex ed.

Parents are always informed and have to be informed because each school can tailor it's own anti-bullying policy, and parents can opt to have their child not participate in the various programmes.

They can influence school policy and the laws of the country protect their right to their beliefs as the parents are the primary educators of their children according to the Irish constitution.

Daith

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Parents had probleny, not school.
They had been speaking in the school couple of times before. Was never a problem. Probably just admin error regarding letters home or parental opt-outs.

Yes the parents I'm sure.

They already had spoke there twice, so the school had ran the events and gotten appropriate permission twice already.

Daith

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm not sure where you get your information, but none of the above is actually correct.

Schools have no legal responsibility to provide relationships education including anti-bullying and sex ed.

Yes they do.

SPECIFIC STRATEGIES TO deal with cyberbullying and homophobic bullying are to become mandatory in all 4,000 primary and post-primary schools.

http://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-bullying-1082034-Sep2013/

The_Valeyard

oceanclub wrote: »

Here's what I think; they panicked and told her it was cancelled, full stop. Now that the story was gone Full Streisand, they're rowing back and saying it's only postponed.

P.

Sorry, just seeing this now.
I don't see that happening. The whole thing would and did blow up in front of the school. Any principal or department head would not let themselves open to that.
Unless evidence to the contrary I think it's more admin error over anything else.

lazygal

Meangadh wrote: »

Even though as an Irish speaker and someone who loves the language I should be insulted, all I could do was laugh here considering anyone who knows anything about Gaelscoileanna would know that nowadays you probably couldn't find more a middle-class, non-traditional, non-conservative crowd. To the point where traditional Gaelgóirí often lament the passing of the old days of the Gaelscoileanna. They couldn't be less DeValera if they tried.

The gaelscoil closest to us couldn't be more traditional and more into equating being Irish with being catholic if it tried. Lots of parents send their children there to avoid having their children in school with non Irish children and the children who do go there spend hours in the church across the road. The music done is all for school masses and the artwork is all based on religious themes. As a parent raising children free from religion there is no way I could or would send them there and expect it to be a suitable, inclusive environment for my children.

Gatling

So its just 2 parents worried about little Johnny or little Mary catching a dose of viral gayness

Donkey Oaty

Daith wrote: »

Yes they do.

http://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-bullying-1082034-Sep2013/

More here, straight from the Department of Education.

It's extremely explicit in terms of what is required.


http://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Policy-Reports/Anti-Bullying-Procedures-for-Primary-and-Post-Primary-Schools.pdf

The_Valeyard

Daith wrote: »

Yes the parents I'm sure.

They already had spoke there twice, so the school had ran the events and gotten appropriate permission twice already.

Exactly.

For a different group of students each time. A new year group. Same rules apply, letters home, signed slips, etc
Could have In the past have faced legal action for not sending home information or permission slips.

One eyed Jack

Daith wrote: »

Yes they do.



http://www.thejournal.ie/cyber-bullying-1082034-Sep2013/

That's referring to school policies, not education.

Daith

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Sorry, just seeing this now.
I don't see that happening. The whole thing would and did blow up in front of the school. Any principal or department head would not let themselves open to that.
Unless evidence to the contrary I think it's more admin error over anything else.

More than an admin error I think and more to do with parents.

The organisation contacted the school again on Tuesday morning to “check everything was still ok” and was told that it was. “We got an email at 10.30am this morning cancelling the workshop,” Mr Meehan said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/dublin-school-cancels-workshops-on-homophobic-bullying-1.2081515#.VMf1JGg1x3o.twitter

Daith

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That's referring to school policies, not education.

What are you talking about. You were talking about schools?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Schools have no legal responsibility to provide relationships education including anti-bullying and sex ed.

Schools have to have anti-homophobic bullying polices in place.

Which is why this school brought in Shout Out twice to deliver workshops.

Donkey Oaty

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That's referring to school policies, not education.

Read para 1.1.1 of the document and get back to us on that.

But if you are referring to the curriculum content, you may well be right.

Daith

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Read para 1.1.1 of the document and get back to us on that.

But if you are referring to the curriculum content, you may well be right.

Right got ya.

They still need policies but this is away from the actual issue.

aunt aggie

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'm not sure where you get your information, but none of the above is actually correct.

Schools have no legal responsibility to provide relationships education including anti-bullying and sex ed.

Parents are always informed and have to be informed because each school can tailor it's own anti-bullying policy, and parents can opt to have their child not participate in the various programmes.

They can influence school policy and the laws of the country protect their right to their beliefs as the parents are the primary educators of their children according to the Irish constitution.

All schools do have to provide relationships and sex education. This is the SPHE syllabus at Junior Cycle and further RSE classes at senior cycle. This is common place in all schools in the country.

Circular M4/95 indicated that it was necessary for schools to commence a process of developing a school-policy with a view to including RSE, and wider aspects of Social, Personal and Health Education in their curricula in the school year 1995/96, if not already being done.

If certain schools are allowing their own ethos or parents concerns to get in the way of students education, they're letting kids down.

Daith

Seems some of the students are going to protest tomorrow

Gatling

I'd make the parents publicly explain there concerns

Daith

Gatling wrote: »

I'd make the parents publicly explain there concerns

Surely the children of those parents should just not go to the workshop?

One eyed Jack

aunt aggie wrote: »

All schools do have to provide relationships and sex education. This is the SPHE syllabus at Junior Cycle and further RSE classes at senior cycle. This is common place in all schools in the country.



If certain schools are allowing their own ethos or parents concerns to get in the way of students education, they're letting kids down.

Well that's a matter of opinion really, and one that's entirely dependent on the parents. The school has no choice but to acknowledge parents concerns, and in some cases, parents concerns are actually beneficial in forming the school's anti-bullying policies.

spikeS

Could this controversy lead to the kids getting bullied, I would be weary of any naming and shaming of the parents as some posters are saying it will just cause issues with the kids who might not share their parents thoughts