Almost 500 cases of female genital mutilation identified in just one month in England

Raging_Ninja

ALiasEX wrote: »

If i cut your arm off it wouldn't be mutilation because some people are amputated?

Medically necessitated amputations are carried out regularly.

Besides, we're talking about a vestigial piece of skin, not an arm, about as useful as an appendix. Foreskin needed to be removed in my case as it was causing more trouble than it was worth. I don't miss it or anything, and neither have any of my partners.

Tbh I think the rage about male circumcision is caused more by misunderstanding and squeamishness than anything else.

Wurzelbert

while we are discussing fgm and similar stuff, it might be worth mentioning that many baby girls get killed just after birth, or aborted before, just for being girls in parts of the world...shows how screwed up this whole human society is in so many ways...hurting, mutilating and killing little kids just for culture and/or religion...

Wurzelbert

Wurzelbert wrote: »

can the supposed link between male circumcision and any form of cancer (cervical or penis) be seen as proven beyond doubt by now? i used to think of it as just a theory, but i might not be up-to-date...what proof is there? any good scientific studies with unambiguous results? or do fully circumcised countries like israel have significantly fewer such cancer cases in the age groups in question? would be interesting to know...

to add to my post and help answer my own questions on circumcision in the usa and cancer...

Wibbs

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Besides, we're talking about a vestigial piece of skin, not an arm, about as useful as an appendix..

It is most certainly not a vestigial piece of skin. This seems to be a common belief, but it's very wrong. Its a complex bit of anatomy, filled with erogenous nerves, blood vessels and even unique cells found nowhere else. It serves a protective purpose to the head of the penis, which is a semi internal structure not evolved to be exposed constantly. That's before the other purposes within arousal and intercourse itself. While men who have had it removed can of course have perfectly good sex lives(even more so if they have a condition that actually requires its removal), but something has been lost and it is not a vestigial something.

Wurzelbert

on a less serious note, having a foreskin might save your life when captured by militant arabs...easy proof you are not jewish...as that guy wrote in bravo two zero...

ALiasEX

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Medically necessitated amputations are carried out regularly.

Besides, we're talking about a vestigial piece of skin, not an arm, about as useful as an appendix. Foreskin needed to be removed in my case as it was causing more trouble than it was worth. I don't miss it or anything, and neither have any of my partners.

Tbh I think the rage about male circumcision is caused more by misunderstanding and squeamishness than anything else.

What Wibbs said.

Also, that was my part of my point about amputations. They are medically needed for some but if I cut off your arm just for fun, it is mutilation.

Just because you needed (that might actually not be true) to be medically circumcised does not mean it should not be called mutilation when done unnecessarily.

spikeS

Akrasia wrote: »

Imagine if it was their 'culture' to chop off the index finger of every female baby

Now are you still in favour of it?

What if it's their culture to kill the first born baby as a sacrifice to their god.....

It's not our place to change their culture is the point, I don't agree with it but it's not for us to force our ways onto people

Wurzelbert

spikeS wrote: »

It's not our place to change their culture is the point, I don't agree with it but it's not for us to force our ways onto people

as far as i am concerned that can apply in their own countries...we cannot heal the world, but we can certainly try to make sure at least our laws and values are respected in our countries...

spikeS

Wurzelbert wrote: »

as far as i am concerned that can apply in their own countries...we cannot heal the world, but we can certainly try to make sure at least our laws and values are respected in our countries...

Their countries are a mess cause of the west, we need to look after them cause of what we have caused and while they are here in a unknown foreign land forcing them to change their culture seems wrong.

RobYourBuilder

spikeS wrote: »

Their countries are a mess cause of the west, we need to look after them cause of what we have caused and while they are here in a unknown foreign land forcing them to change their culture seems wrong.

This is one of the most condescending things that I've heard in a long time.

MrPudding

spikeS wrote: »

Their countries are a mess cause of the west, we need to look after them cause of what we have caused and while they are here in a unknown foreign land forcing them to change their culture seems wrong.

I'm sorry, but why is it wrong to tell someone that something they are doing is wrong, when it is so very obvious that it is wrong? I think the term 'politically correct' is overused and misused, as is 'politically correct gone mad', but in this case you appear to be falling over yourself to appear politically correct, and in the process are defending political correctness gone mad. I am sorry but cutting the clitoris off a young girl and partially sewing up he vagina is wrong. There, I said it. it is wrong in this culture, and it is wrong in any culture where it happens. As far as I can see it is, or should be, seen as universally wrong, I am not aware of anywhere in the universe where this practice could be considered right.

I don't give a sh1t if I am considered to be a privileged white man living in the west. I appreciate that the west have not always got thing correct, but that does not stop me from looking at a practice, where ever it happens to be carried out, and analysing it using principles that are accessible to all and coming to the conclusion that it is wrong. That is not racist, nor is it something we should be scared of doing.

MrP

spikeS

MrPudding wrote: »

I'm sorry, but why is it wrong to tell someone that something they are doing is wrong, when it is so very obvious that it is wrong? I think the term 'politically correct' is overused and misused, as is 'politically correct gone mad', but in this case you appear to be falling over yourself to appear politically correct, and in the process are defending political correctness gone mad. I am sorry but cutting the clitoris off a young girl and partially sewing up he vagina is wrong. There, I said it. it is wrong in this culture, and it is wrong in any culture where it happens. As far as I can see it is, or should be, seen as universally wrong, I am not aware of anywhere in the universe where this practice could be considered right.

I don't give a sh1t if I am considered to be a privileged white man living in the west. I appreciate that the west have not always got thing correct, but that does not stop me from looking at a practice, where ever it happens to be carried out, and analysing it using principles that are accessible to all and coming to the conclusion that it is wrong. That is not racist, nor is it something we should be scared of doing.

MrP

I am weary of telling minority cultures what is ok be it on race,gender,sexuality, it's not for us in the majority to say what is ok for you cause we might not like it

DoYouEvenLift

spikeS wrote: »

I am weary of telling minority cultures what is ok be it on race,gender,sexuality, it's not for us in the majority to say what is ok for you cause we might not like it

If they're going to live amongst our society when they could easily just stay back in their own, they need to abide by our laws no matter what their fuking beliefs are.

If you had a friend with children and you invited them over to your house and the children did something bold and your friend started hitting the kids would you still pander to what they're doing since your sooo sensitive to people's different methods?

spikeS

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

If they're going to live amongst our society when they could easily just stay back in their own, they need to abide by our laws no matter what their fuking beliefs are.

Our western culture has messed up theirs with slavery and wars, if they leave to get away from the damage we did to their home we should be careful no to damage their culture now

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

If you had a friend with children and you invited them over to your house and the children did something bold and your friend started hitting the kids would you still pander to what they're doing since your sooo sensitive to people's different methods?

They are not trying to circumcise our kids only their own in accordance with their culture

eviltwin

spikeS wrote: »

Our western culture has messed up theirs with slavery and wars, if they leave to get away from the damage we did to their home we should be careful no to damage their culture niw

They can retain their culture, they are not allowed to break the laws of the land no matter who they are.

DoYouEvenLift

spikeS wrote: »

Our western culture has messed up theirs with slavery and wars, if they leave to get away from the damage we did to their home we should be careful no to damage their culture now



They are not trying to circumcise our kids only their own in accordance with their culture

Did you know that white Irish people were also used as slaves?


And answer the original question, would you allow your friend to continue hitting his children while in your home?

Wurzelbert

spikeS wrote: »

Their countries are a mess cause of the west, we need to look after them cause of what we have caused and while they are here in a unknown foreign land forcing them to change their culture seems wrong.

“cause of the west”? tell me how we – the west – have caused fgm? or how we have caused it in ethiopia which was never even a western colony? how did the west screw up ethiopia anyway? i think yours is a dangerously oversimplistic and monocausal view and also somewhat racist...

spikeS

Wurzelbert wrote: »

“cause of the west”? tell me how we – the west – have caused fgm? or how we have caused it in ethiopia which was never even a western colony? how did the west screw up ethiopia anyway? i think yours is a dangerously oversimplistic and monocausal view and also somewhat racist...

The west caused Africa to lose many of it good people due to slavery which set them back, the West didn't cause fgm that's part of the culture we just made it so the country did not get to development as much during slave times as we stole their workforce from them

Wibbs

spikeS wrote: »

Our western culture has messed up theirs with slavery and wars, if they leave to get away from the damage we did to their home we should be careful no to damage their culture now

Jesus another one. Cultural relativism mixed with a large dollop of white man's guilt. Marvelous...

I don't see cultures as equal and this is pretty demonstrable. Some aspects of some cultures are just primitive nonsense that have no place in the 21st century. Chopping bits off girls fannies is one of them.

They are not trying to circumcise our kids only their own in accordance with their culture

Then and I'm sorry to have to channel Enoch Powell here, they should head off to a culture that allows such primitive nonsense, rather than pollute cultures that see it for the retaded nonsense it is.

spikeS

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Did you know that white Irish people were also used as slaves?


And answer the original question, would you allow your friend to continue hitting his children while in your home?

I did answer it it's a strawman cause they are not trying to force anything on us they just want to continue using their culture for themselves

jackofalltrades

spikeS wrote: »

They are not trying to circumcise our kids only their own in accordance with their culture

Do you not deem their children worthy of our protection from this barbaric procedure?
Our laws are for the protection of everyone.

spikeS

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Do you not deem their children worthy of our protection from this barbaric procedure?
Our laws are for the protection of everyone.

Yes but should not be used to erase a culture, it's like the prime directive in star trek, you might want to interfere but shouldn't.

Wibbs

spikeS wrote: »

The west caused Africa to lose many of it good people due to slavery which set them back, the West didn't cause fgm that's part of the culture we just made it so the country did not get to development as much during slave times as we stole their workforce from them

Are you having a bloody laugh? Man you really drank the Kool aid as the Yanks say.

The west caused slavery eh? ORLY? You do realise that the vast majority of the slavery trade over the last thousand years was Middle Eastern in origin(and still is)? You do realize that African slavery lasted a couple of centuries in the west before it was banned in the same west? You do realise that most of those who supplied slavesrealiseto both the west were Africans themselves? Oh and as for the "west" definition, almost the entirety of slavery peddled by those awful white people was in the New World.

Wibbs

spikeS wrote: »

Yes but should not be used to erase a culture, it's like the prime directive in star trek, you might want to interfere but shouldn't.

Star Trek? Star effin Trek? My response to that is either A) What the ever living f... or well played troll, well played.

Wurzelbert

spikeS wrote: »

The west caused Africa to lose many of it good people due to slavery which set them back, the West didn't cause fgm that's part of the culture we just made it so the country did not get to development as much during slave times as we stole their workforce from them

you are aware that the greatest slave traders since antiquity are not westerners but arabs, right?

DoYouEvenLift

spikeS wrote: »

I did answer it it's a strawman cause they are not trying to force anything on us they just want to continue using their culture for themselves

It's not about them forcing it on us, obviously we're not stupid enough to being even close to being capable of being forced to copy their culture, it's about them doing something to their children that you don't agree with while in your house. By your logic, them hitting their child could be part of their culture and since it's okay for them to do in their own house it's also okay to continue doing it while in your house.

Grayson

spikeS wrote: »

Their countries are a mess cause of the west, we need to look after them cause of what we have caused and while they are here in a unknown foreign land forcing them to change their culture seems wrong.

people give relativism a bad wrap. It's seen as all tree hugging liberal etc.. thing is that most tree huggers don't support relativism. As an ethical stance it's bat**** crazy. Yes, it's important to realise that our morals are just ours. Our customs are no more or less important/better than anyone else's.
That doesn't mean that we can ignore certain abuses. just because something is someone's culture doesn't mean we can accept mutilating a child. This goes for both males and females. If there's one thing to be learned from Relativism it's that tolerance is a virtue but it shouldn't be the single guiding principle.


(the way I look at FGM/Circumcision is that they are both the same issue. yes, FGM is more brutal but i see it like this. Imagine someone went around punching girls in both eyes but guys in one eye. Yes, the girls have it worse but that doesn't mean that we should ignore the guys. We should be stopping everyone from mutilitating the genitals of children)

RobYourBuilder

According to the UN, there are currently between 15 - 20 million people enslaved today. Unfortunately for them, they are not enslaved by whitey. So nobody really cares about their plight.

Wurzelbert

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

According to the UN, there are currently between 15 - 20 million people enslaved today. Unfortunately for them, they are not enslaved by whitey. So nobody really cares about their plight.

sad but true

Potatoeman

Wurzelbert wrote: »

you are aware that the greatest slave traders since antiquity are not westerners but arabs, right?

Its okay as their descendants didnt survive to complain about it I guess.