Hen Harrier and land-designation conflict

OpenYourEyes

Woodville56 wrote: »

I've just read in today's Irish Times -

"Gardai investigating the shooting of the Kerry Hen Harrier do not believe the bird was deliberately targeted.They suspect it was killed by mistake by people shooting duck, woodcock and snipe....A senior Garda officer said it was believed the bird may have been shot accidentally, most likely by one of the parties of visitors from abroad who come to South Kerry in December and January for shooting holidays....It was highly likely the shooters involved did not realise what they had shot"

If the above is true it just adds insult to injury in this case ! Is there no regulation of visiting hunters in terms of them being advised what they can and cannot shoot or are they allowed to bring their indiscriminate continental habits of shooting wild birds with them when they come here ?? Are they and those who organise such shooting holidays oblivious and not answerable to our wildlife legislation? As for the " didn't realise what they had shot" how could anyone mistake a harrier for a duck, snipe or woodcock? That line should be from a Speccsavers ad! The " it may have been outsiders" theory of the Garda may be just a bit convenient and just muddies the water on the investigation, thus shifting the focus from a possible local renegade shooter even ?

Personally I don't buy it at the moment!

But as an aside, I do get the impression from Irish shooters/hunters amongst others that these 'holiday shoots' for guys from the continent do need to better much better regulated or restricted.

Woodville56

Good well balanced contributions from John Lusby (BWI) and Barry O'Donoghue (NPWS) on the Hen Harrier / Farmer dependency issue on Ear To The Ground on RTE1 just now !

OpenYourEyes

Link for tonights episode of Ear to the Ground for anyone who didn't see it: http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10374614/

Great contributions all round on the issue, I really hope the Department of Agriculture are feeling the pressure to sort this out once and for all!

Half-cocked

Woodville56 wrote: »

The " it may have been outsiders" theory of the Garda may be just a bit convenient and just muddies the water on the investigation, thus shifting the focus from a possible local renegade shooter even ?

Case solved, no need for further investigation. As you say, a bit too convenient.

OpenYourEyes

"Abrupt reallocation of funds by the Department of Agriculture has hit farmers and Ireland’s most treasured wildlife, including the hen harrier, says An Taisce"

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/taisce-challenges-controversial-reallocation-%E2%82%AC400-million-cap-funds-which-has-hit-farmers

Just to highlight the intro to the piece -though I recommend reading it all:

An Taisce The National Trust for Ireland has written to DG Agriculture and DG Environment of the European Commission querying the legality of a massive reallocation of funds by the Department of Agriculture under Ireland’s Rural Development Programme 2007-2013. The Commission has confirmed that it is now investigating the matter.

The reallocated money was originally earmarked for spending on Ireland’s most important and most threatened wildlife areas - Natura 2000 sites.

The original budget for distribution to farmers managing land within these protected areas was €528 million. However, in 2013 the Department of Agriculture abruptly announced that only €93 million would be spent on Natura 2000 sites and that the massive balance of more than €400 million would be reallocated elsewhere. This represents a reallocation of greater than 80%.

Internal correspondence obtained by An Taisce under access to information rules reveals that the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) was taken aback by the Department of Agriculture’s announcement. The NPWS sought a detailed explanation from its government colleagues but this was not forthcoming until An Taisce made a formal access to information request

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

"Abrupt reallocation of funds by the Department of Agriculture has hit farmers and Ireland’s most treasured wildlife, including the hen harrier, says An Taisce"

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/taisce-challenges-controversial-reallocation-%E2%82%AC400-million-cap-funds-which-has-hit-farmers

Just to highlight the intro to the piece -though I recommend reading it all:

One of the main problems I've heard in the sidelines of the gig at the Green Isle, is that the NPWS is too meek when it comes to its dealings with the bigger Dept. Time for these people to grow a pair on behalf the HH and designated farmers

OpenYourEyes

Birdnuts wrote: »

One of the main problems I've heard in the sidelines of the gig at the Green Isle, is that the NPWS is too meek when it comes to its dealings with the bigger Dept. Time for these people to grow a pair on behalf the HH and designated farmers

Honestly, the NPWS don't have the power or backing! They'd love to, but that fire would get quinched by the higher ups in the department. Honestly, it's amazing that they get as much done as they do given how little support they have.

The majority of the time, if there's a problem between NPWS and some set of stakeholders (farmers, turfcutters etc), you can bet that NPWS knew in advance it was going to happen, and knew/know how to solve it - but aren't given the power or support to do it.

Uriel.

Birdnuts wrote: »

One of the main problems I've heard in the sidelines of the gig at the Green Isle, is that the NPWS is too meek when it comes to its dealings with the bigger Dept. Time for these people to grow a pair on behalf the HH and designated farmers

Department of Ag versus Department of Arts... Which do you think carries the most clout at the cabinet table? NPWS is vilified by politicians (including Government TDs) at every opportunity. The bad news Department???

OpenYourEyes

On the topic of NPWS and what they can/should do - An Taisce got hold of their submissions on RDP through the Freedom of Information rules last year: http://www.antaisce.org/articles/governments-alternative-vision-irish-agriculture-support-environment

Based on a large body of evidence, in a May 2013 submission – “On CAP reform and biodiversity” - the NPWS highlights the shortcomings of previous RDPs. Despite an extraordinary €2.18 billion having been distributed to farmers in Ireland under environmental schemes between 1994 and 2006, these schemes, the NPWS records, have failed to deliver sufficient protection for Ireland’s biodiversity and have not ensured that ecosystems can support a vibrant agricultural sector in the long term.

In fact, agricultural ecosystems and the wider countryside are in a poor state environmentally. Of note in this regard is the situation in relation to Ireland’s 400+ Special Areas of Conservation (SACs), where “only 5% of the terrestrial habitats...were deemed to be in ‘favourable’ conservation status in 2007, with 51% deemed to be ‘unfavourable bad’.” As these are (in principle) the most strictly protected areas in Ireland, one can imagine the status of the wider countryside.................................................

...............The NPWS expresses understandable frustration that its past submissions “have not particularly influenced the selection of measures for Natura lands,” despite the fact that the NPWS is the responsible body with direct expertise. Past schemes have suffered “due to poor design of prescriptions, inadequate targeting and baseline setting and little or no monitoring of results.”...................

...................As the NPWS rightly notes, “Farmers should be supported financially through enhanced or incentivised payments to support the production of environmental goods and services and sustainable, innovative, biodiversity-friendly farming practices and farming enterprises.”

OpenYourEyes

An article today about An Taisce raising the issue of the missing €400+million with the European Commission - because unfortunately the only way you can get people to do the right thing here is to get Europe involved!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/farmers-sold-out-by-department-312316.html

An Taisce has claimed that farmers have been “sold out” by the Department of Agriculture’s decision to re-allocate over €400m worth of CAP funding that had been earmarked for spending on Ireland’s most threatened wildlife areas.

Now the national heritage body has written to the European Commission’s Agriculture and Environment Directorates-General to query the legality of the re-allocation under the Rural Development Programme 2007-2013, and it said that the commission has confirmed it is now investigating .

See the end of the article for a very poor excuse from the Dept of Ag

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

On the topic of NPWS and what they can/should do - An Taisce got hold of their submissions on RDP through the Freedom of Information rules last year: http://www.antaisce.org/articles/governments-alternative-vision-irish-agriculture-support-environment

Doesn't suprise me. Vast amounts of money were spent on REPS without much to show for it in terms of improving the status of the likes of Corncrakes,Curlew etc. In contrast to far cheaper agri schemes in the UK like the CS scheme which did great work at boosting the populations of these species in their core areas such as Western Scotland.

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

See the end of the article for a very poor excuse from the Dept of Ag

Indeed. The idea that farmers in designated areas didn't want the money is pure BS and I hope the EU hand the Dept of Agriculture their ar$e over this:mad:.

Capercaille

Birdnuts wrote: »

Indeed. The idea that farmers in designated areas didn't want the money is pure BS and I hope the EU hand the Dept of Agriculture their ar$e over this:mad:.

Coveney is some liar. I've heard it all now.

OpenYourEyes

Another article, this time in the Irish Times, on the same subject: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/an-taisce-queries-reallocation-of-unused-environmental-funds-1.2102172?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

If demand for the money was significantly less than planned, then why did NPWS have to cough up a significant chunk of their budget to pay farmers for Hen Harrier conservation?! Really hope the European Commission goes to town on them! Disgraceful what they've gotten away with to date.

Capercaille

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Another article, this time in the Irish Times, on the same subject: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/an-taisce-queries-reallocation-of-unused-environmental-funds-1.2102172?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

If demand for the money was significantly less than planned, then why did NPWS have to cough up a significant chunk of their budget to pay farmers for Hen Harrier conservation?! Really hope the European Commission goes to town on them! Disgraceful what they've gotten away with to date.

I wonder was the money diverted to the "greening payments" which make up around 30% of SFP. Money for doing basically nothing.

OpenYourEyes

IFA keeping their heads firmly in the sand in terms of the recent discussions, interviews and press-releases on the subject of hen harriers, small farmers, the department of Ag, and whats in the best interests of all involved. They have a very one-tracked mind!

http://www.ifa.ie/ifa-call-for-the-re-instatement-of-protocol-to-allow-limited-planting-programme-in-hen-harrier-spas/#.VN9vKC7o6KV

Edit: Came across it on twitter today, but it's actually from the 9th of February!

djmc

There is an extra 2000 Euros being offered to farmers in spa land in glas+ above what every other farmer will get on non degesnated land.
Also a cap on payments so will only get paid on a certain number of acres.
That's tiny compared to the money offered forestry premiums or renting reclaimed grassland .
Oh and the IFA welcome it

http://www.ifa.ie/ifa-welcomes-opening-of-glas-scheme/#.VOh0psseLqA

Birdnuts

djmc wrote: »

There is an extra 2000 Euros being offered to farmers in spa land in glas+ above what every other farmer will get on non degesnated land.
Also a cap on payments so will only get paid on a certain number of acres.
That's tiny compared to the money offered forestry premiums or renting reclaimed grassland .
Oh and the IFA welcome it

http://www.ifa.ie/ifa-welcomes-opening-of-glas-scheme/#.VOh0psseLqA

No deal on the RDP yet so I'd watch this space. Even if the RDP does get the nod its looking like a direct complaint on the matter will be heading to Europe by the summer.

PS: As for the IFA, doesn't surprise me as they pretty much act as the big farmer/agribusiness wing of FG nowadays.

Birdnuts

A letter in the farming press this week

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/hill-farmers-fury-over-department-inspections-31015648.html

Just shows what farmers and conservationists are up against when it comes to the Dept of Agriculture.

OpenYourEyes

Presumably this is the letter being referred to: http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/commonage-eligibility-cuts-will-lead-to-the-abandonment-of-land-and-rural-decline-31015567.html

Notable that, at the end, the letter is signed by all of the below - farming, conservation, gamekeeping etc bodies:

Supported by the following organisations:

Irish Cattle & Sheep Farmers' Association

Irish Farmers with Designated Land

BirdWatch Ireland

Mountaineering Ireland

Irish Red Grouse Association

Golden Eagle Trust

Irish Red Grouse Conversation Trust

European Forum on Nature Conservation and Pastoralism

National Association of Regional Game Councils

Irish Beekeeping Association

West Cork Community Alliance

Kilchreest-Peterswell Game and Conservation Club

Derrybrien Development Society

Woodford Gun Club

Irish Hawking Club

Irish Breeds Club

Galway Game Hunting Association

Farm Advisory Services Ltd,

The Woodland league

John McDonagh Planner

The Ox Mountain Hill Sheep Development Association

....no sign of the IFA though!

OpenYourEyes

The IFA seemingly trying to tell the government that they can let afforestation go ahead in SPAs as long as certain boxes are ticked, ignoring the fact that the level of forestry in Hen Harrier SPAs is already too much (>53%): http://www.ifa.ie/government-has-authority-to-permit-planting-in-hen-harrier-spas-if-appropriate-assessment-is-undertaken-ifa/#.VPW4KOHo6KW

“This means that the Government has the authority to permit planting in Hen Harrier SPAs and does not have to wait for the HHTRP to be completed”, said Mr. Fleming. The Forest Service have Appropriate Assessment Procedures for Hen Harrier SPAs that will assess habitat changes associated with afforestation and screen the risks that are sufficient to permit afforestation while the long-term strategic plan is developed”.

The Irish Raptor Study Group replied on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=623582437772762&id=345679678896374

See "Guidance on Appropriate Assessment for Planning Authorities" Page 69 5.8 (4) Adverse Affects on the integrity of a Natura 2000 Site: [that do not qualify for IROPI (Imperative Reasons of Overriding Public Interest) e.g. private forestry]... If the proposed development will adversely affect the integrity of a site, and if less damaging alternatives are not feasible or imperative reasons of overriding public interest do not exist, the development will require to be refused. http://www.npws.ie/.../publ.../pdf/NPWS_2009_AA_Guidance.pdf

And on twitter, the Irish Wildlife Trust cheekily pointed out that the picture used by the IFA is of habitat that no Hen Harrier would go near! https://twitter.com/Irishwildlife/status/572690247332577280

Uriel.

Fleming will just waste everyone's time trying to assess forestry applications that have no change of passing screening

farmerjohn

Can you replant trees in designated ground.

Capercaillie

farmerjohn wrote: »

Can you replant trees in designated ground.

If you are in a SAC/SPA there are restrictions on planting. Don't know anything about replanting. Contact the NPWS.

Tiger72

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Hi DJMC, looking at the statutory instruments for two Hen harrier SPA's it seems there are three things you can't do without ministerial consent:



Links: (1) (2)

And removal of hedgerows etc and bog-related activities like that require permission anyway I think? So not unique to Hen harrier SPAs.

Could you link to the part of the NPWS website you're referring to?

Hi is there any link where you can get information of restrictions in the Cork-Kerry area ?

Tiger72

Its alright found it :
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0627.html

OpenYourEyes

A good blog piece by Hen Harrier Ireland to coincide with the start of the Grouse shooting season in the UK and the protests over the weekend about continued raptor persecution that happens on driven grouse moors. Unfortunately the problems there impact birds from further afield, including Ireland.

http://henharrierireland.blogspot.ie/2015/08/solidarity.html?spref=tw

Capercaillie

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

A good blog piece by Hen Harrier Ireland to coincide with the start of the Grouse shooting season in the UK and the protests over the weekend about continued raptor persecution that happens on driven grouse moors. Unfortunately the problems there impact birds from further afield, including Ireland.

http://henharrierireland.blogspot.ie/2015/08/solidarity.html?spref=tw

The lad who writes the blog is my NPWS farm planner. He's passionate about the Hen Harrier. Doing good work also getting farmers onside with Corncrake conservation as well (which is not easy). You need lads like him.

OpenYourEyes

Hen harrier subsidy under GLAS 'not adequate', says Oireachtas report

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/hen-harrier-subsidy-under-glas-not-adequate-says-oireachtas-report-192200/#.ViaZi2Ajn5p.twitter

Capercaillie

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Hen harrier subsidy under GLAS 'not adequate', says Oireachtas report

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/hen-harrier-subsidy-under-glas-not-adequate-says-oireachtas-report-192200/#.ViaZi2Ajn5p.twitter

It would be nice if they discussed a few measures that would actually help the Hen Harrier, rather than just focusing on the money the whole time.