How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

S.O

No Campaign Volunteers Assaulted by Yes Campaigners in Dublin Last Night.
Full account of this and the threats and abuse received will be posted later today.

https://www.facebook.com/mothersandfathersmatter/posts/839692482770129

If this is true that assaults took place last night, its gone beyond tearing down posters to the point of violence towards people who just happen to have a different point of view on the referendum issue.

Ave Sodalis

S.O wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/mothersandfathersmatter/posts/839692482770129

If this is true that assaults took place last night, its gone beyond tearing down posters to the point of violence towards people who just happen to have a different point of view on the referendum issue.

Must not have been true since they removed it.

K4t

S.O wrote: »

You might be surprised, there is prob a % of people out there at two minds about which way to vote, and then see the anti democratic nature of some yes campaigners taking down vote no posters, and might feel and think if they vote yes that they,re being bullied and pressured into it, and might likely vote no in the privacy of the polling booth, remember the Martina Genockey video from last summer the way campaigners were very up in her face, that backfired and got her a lot more votes, same can happen with this current referendum campaign due to the actions of some ( not all ) yes campaigners.

Of course the nature of the campaigning by both sides may have an affect on the amount of YES or NO votes, but we were discussing the validity or morality of a YES or NO vote, not the actions of the campaigners, who we aren't voting for. And a YES vote is still a vote for equality, no matter how the YES side wishes to carry out its campaign.

It's funny, in the society I thought I lived in here in Ireland, the entire heterosexual population would be grateful for the gay community's efforts to help highlight a clear case of a discriminatory right which exists in our constitution.

Zubeneschamali

S.O wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/mothersandfathersmatter/posts/839692482770129

If this is true that assaults took place last night, its gone beyond tearing down posters to the point of violence towards people who just happen to have a different point of view on the referendum issue.

I strongly condemn violence, because it's very wrong and illegal, and bad tactics.

But this is not simply an issue where people have a different point of view. We are not voting on whether to paint the Dail chamber green or red.

No campaigners are trying to defend established discrimination, and prevent citizens getting their human rights.

That is going to get on people's tits, and some of them will be big male heterosexuals with too much testosterone and alcohol in their systems.

People wlll get punched before this is over.

shruikan2553

sup_dude wrote: »

Must not have been true since they removed it.

Probably taken down by yes campaigners :pac:

bigpink

With all the celebs and Facebook profile pics will they actually go out and vote yes?

Madame_Diem

bigpink wrote: »

With all the celebs and Facebook profile pics will they actually go out and vote yes?

One wonders. They scheduled the date for Harvey Milk Day. I wonder will all those college students they signed up actually bother to turn up and vote after their exams.

StewartGriffin

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That is going to get on people's tits, and some of them will be big male heterosexuals with too much testosterone and alcohol in their systems.

People wlll get punched before this is over.

Way to paint a stereotype.

What about the big male homosexuals with too much testosterone and alcohol in their systems?

They are all too gentle and kind for any of that nasty stuff.

Zubeneschamali

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Way to paint a stereotype.

Thank you, thank you.

I'm here all week!

jimmycrackcorm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Could you imagine 50 years ago a black person saying they shouldn't be allowed to vote, because it's a "white institution", or 100 years ago, a woman saying the same because voting is a "male institution"?

Or another analogy is to say we are voting to change Christmas to the "holidays".

Zen65

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I was going to vote Yes but the Childish nature of this whole thing has me deciding to stay away on polling day.

Maybe every vote counts though?

Here's an inspiring speech from the campaign held in NYC in 2009:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCFFxidhcy0

Apparently the motion was passed and NYC is still OK.

Dimithy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No its getting out of the way of stupidity.

Seems more like diving right into the middle of it.

The_Kew_Tour

Dimithy wrote: »

Seems more like diving right into the middle of it.

It really isn't. Does not even make sense.

Dimithy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It really isn't. Does not even make sense.

Not voting ,because you dislike the behavior of certain people on either side, is stupid.
This is not a popularity contest, this affects the rights of a group of people.Real people. Probably people you know, people you work with. Maybe even family members.
And you're not going to vote because people on both sides have behaved badly?
That's setting up camp right in the middle of the stupidity.

crockholm

Probably No,Will be in the country at the time of the referendum too. Not too pushed on the matter either way,but it's probably best to leave things the way they are.

osarusan

Yeah. Probably best.

I mean, it's only equality, really.

Ctrl Alt Delete

Dimithy wrote: »

That's setting up camp right in the middle of the stupidity.

A person is perfectly entitled to abstain from voting for any reason (including apathy) as much as they are entitled to vote yes or no.

FloatingVoter

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

A person is perfectly entitled to abstain from voting for any reason (including apathy) as much as they are entitled to vote yes or no.

Better to spoil the vote than just not use it. On divisive referendums like this, vote early and often can come into play. Use the vote. Even in a Yes / No there is always a third option. That's why spoiled votes are counted too.
Failing to do so just tells me you're too lazy to matter.

S.O

As I said the actions of some ( not all ) yes campaigners can come across the wrong way to people and sway the opposite way, letter in todays Irish times.

Sir, – The more I follow this never-ending debate the more I
realise that I couldn’t care less whether men marry women or men marry men. However I do care about tolerance, freedom of speech and freedom of thought. I believe in live and let live; that people should have the freedom to believe what they choose and to live their lives and go about their business as they choose provided that in doing so they do not interfere with the rights of
others. For that reason I will be voting No in the referendum. It is becoming
abundantly clear that those advocating a Yes vote are totally intolerant of the
rights of others to hold contrary opinions and to live their lives according to
their beliefs. This referendum is an opportunity to stand up to a trendy
pseudo-liberal tyranny and anyone who cares about tolerance and basic human rights and freedoms should do so by voting No. – Yours, etc,


MATT HARPER,

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/marriage-referendum-1.2186782

pl4ichjgy17zwd

that people should have the freedom to believe what they choose and to live their lives and go about their business as they choose provided that in doing so they do not interfere with the rights of others.

I will be voting No in the referendum

So he's just a hypocrite basically?

S.O

More yes campaigners taking down no campaign posters,( see attachments ) I can,t recall people taking it upon themselves to take down posters in other referendums or elections.

theteal

S.O wrote: »

More yes campaigners taking down no campaign posters,( see attachments ) I can,t recall people taking it upon themselves to take down posters in other referendums or elections.

I've actually seen friends online talking about taking down posters near their homes. I'm really not sure how I feel about it. Granted, I've yet to be met with a single justifiable reason to vote no but taking down posters strikes me as flying in the face of democracy. Surely people can see the posters are rubbish and proceed to make an informed decision.

pl4ichjgy17zwd

theteal wrote: »

I've actually seen friends online talking about taking down posters near their homes. I'm really not sure how I feel about it. Granted, I've yet to be met with a single justifiable reason to vote no but taking down posters strikes me as flying in the face of democracy. Surely people can see the posters are rubbish and proceed to make an informed decision.

I would recommend to them to report them if they break any littering etc laws and donate a Euro or two to the yes equality website or put up some yes posters instead. It will have a better impact.

Edit: obviously should have said they should contact the likes of yes equality to see about posters or canvassing etc

S.O

theteal wrote: »

I've actually seen friends online talking about taking down posters near their homes. I'm really not sure how I feel about it. Granted, I've yet to be met with a single justifiable reason to vote no but taking down posters strikes me as flying in the face of democracy. Surely people can see the posters are rubbish and proceed to make an informed decision.

It does fly in the face of democracy: between the hacking of youth defence website + people taking photo's of removing no campaign poster's; the attitude comes across as its ok to have an opinion but only as long as it agrees with mine; and if you dare disagree we will seek to silence you.

efb

S.O wrote: »

More yes campaigners taking down no campaign posters,( see attachments ) I can,t recall people taking it upon themselves to take down posters in other referendums or elections.

Students taking down election posters shocker!

I don't agree with taking dow posters btw

suicide_circus

I hope people will vote yes DESPITE the undemocratic and anti free speech carry on of some Yes campaigners. To be honest, I find a lot of Yes campaigners just as off putting and objectionable as the Iona goons. No one from the No side has ever got in my face in a bar telling me why I "had" to vote no in a really aggressive manner.

mikemac1

S.O wrote: »

I can,t recall people taking it upon themselves to take down posters in other referendums or elections.

You're only a young pup

The 1995 divorce referendum was a lot more bitter than this

If boards.ie was around it would have melted long ago!

Shrap

S.O wrote: »

It does fly in the face of democracy: between the hacking of youth defence website + people taking photo's of removing no campaign poster's; the attitude comes across as its ok to have an opinion but only as long as it agrees with mine; and if you dare disagree we will seek to silence you.

It'd be hard to hold back a young one who is being so insulted by the likes of those posters. I'm not sure you realise how hurtful they are. My eldest wanted to know yesterday "did they not realise that a child (like himself) could have a great relationship with both parents, even if they're not together and not married?". Most of his friends are from non-traditional families, two of them from gay parents, and ALL of his friends are feeling highly insulted from on high (the posters) for the first time in their lives.

It was hard to persuade him that it would be counter-productive to take them down as tbh, I'm so sick of these fundamentalists coming out and saying whatever the fcuk they like about me and my friends, if I was his age I'd be looking for the nearest ladder myself.

So I'm looking at the list of "crimes" against free speech so far and coming up with:
a) Shutting down an extremist hate speech website for a day by posting a message in opposition to their extreme views.
b) Taking down posters that are saying something extremely insulting on a very personal level to a very great number of people, especially young people.

Y'know, it's a fecking joke in this country that posters full of lies and slurs like this can go up in the first place. This fundie w*nkfest of Iona's and Opus Dei types has pissed off enough people now that the "youth" are all taking it personally now. This is not just a referendum about gay marriage any more as far as they're concerned (from what I hear) - this is mobilising and encouraging an AntiFa response to an extreme right poster campaign.

suicide_circus

No one has the right not to be offended

Shrap

suicide_circus wrote: »

No one has the right not to be offended

True, but have you ever tried telling a lad in their late teens that they can't defend themselves against what's being said about them?

Gotta go out and bring youngest to hosp now to get a permanent cast on yesterday's broken foot. Time to go run the gauntlet of the insults against him and his kind of child at every second traffic light......