should the gaa turn professional?

iDave

deadybai wrote: »

However, The Austrailian football league is an indigenous professionally run sport. If that can become professional,why cant GAA?

Australia has 3-4 times our population meaning higher attendances/TV audiences meaning more moolah.
I think theres less than 20 teams and one code.

Its not like for like at all.

munchkin_utd

iDave wrote: »

Australia has 3-4 times our population meaning higher attendances/TV audiences meaning more moolah.
I think theres less than 20 teams and one code.

Its not like for like at all.

and as you point out, theres 20 teams, not 64+ county teams across the 2 codes which will under no circumstance be merged or modified.

bruschi

munchkin_utd wrote: »

and as you point out, theres 20 teams, not 64+ county teams across the 2 codes which will under no circumstance be merged or modified.

less again. 18 teams. and with a massive population. with 3 main TV FTA channels. with a sports network satellite TV set up. with far more availability on top level sponsors. with trades and transfers. with a draft system that teams get to pick the best of the young players.

It is in no way whatsoever comparable at all.

CrabRevolution

Interesting topic in the soccer forum at the moment about former Premier League players who went broke despite being on phenomenal wages for 10+ years.

A lot of the blame is placed on the fact these lads never knew any different, they went professional early and by 20 hit a big wage. They have only token schooling, and no college done. Then when they turn 30/35 and retire their money dries up and they have no real options for an income, other than the small minority who become successful pundits/coaches.

I'd imagine that if the GAA went professional the players would get a wage pretty much near the bottom of the scale. It would be effectively impossible for a player to have much money saved to last his retirement at 30, never mind the 30+ years till he can get the pension.

I could easily see a good few lads not bothering much in school, or going to college, knowing they will be on the county team by 19/20. But then at retirement having no useful skills to get employment, or money saved up.

deadybai

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Interesting topic in the soccer forum at the moment about former Premier League players who went broke despite being on phenomenal wages for 10+ years.

A lot of the blame is placed on the fact these lads never knew any different, they went professional early and by 20 hit a big wage. They have only token schooling, and no college done. Then when they turn 30/35 and retire their money dries up and they have no real options for an income, other than the small minority who become successful pundits/coaches.

I'd imagine that if the GAA went professional the players would get a wage pretty much near the bottom of the scale. It would be effectively impossible for a player to have much money saved to last his retirement at 30, never mind the 30+ years till he can get the pension.

I could easily see a good few lads not bothering much in school, or going to college, knowing they will be on the county team by 19/20. But then at retirement having no useful skills to get employment, or money saved up.

Perhaps to overcome this, you could have players required to go to college and get a degree like they have in american sports

Realt Dearg Sec

deadybai wrote: »

Perhaps to overcome this, you could have players required to go to college and get a degree like they have in american sports

Very bad example, the American model is a joke, the players mostly do farcical degrees designed specifically for them to be athletes. The vista after professionalism (if they are lucky enough to get into it in the first place let alone last longer than the average three year career) is even more depressing than in soccer. Not sure you could ever require players to go to college either. American athletes build their sporting career through college, that isn't necessarily the case in GAA.

CrabRevolution

deadybai wrote: »

Perhaps to overcome this, you could have players required to go to college and get a degree like they have in american sports

Doesnt really seem to work, 78% of NFL players are broke within 2 years of retirement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSOAwNSv8EM

Also bear in mind these Premier League/NFL/NBA players have earned millions and go broke from having squandered their money while they earned it. I'd say the GAA players wouldn't so much squander their money, they'd have to spend it just to get by in life. They would be paid next to nothing, even in the most optimistic scenario.

I cant put figures on it, but I'd say a massive problem would be a huge loss of goodwill towards the GAA if it went professional. A great deal is made about everyone being a volunteer, community spirit, the way county players are just the best club players and not a separate grade of player etc.

namloc1980

No way professionalism could work in the GAA. Completely unfeasible economically and you're also into transfer markets and all that employment law has to bring. Semi pro / pay per play may be manageable but most of the smaller counties would be disadvantaged.

Mal-Adjusted

mickmackey1 wrote: »

the fact remains that 80% of county football teams are wasting their time under the present system & some experiment with professionalism would at least be worth trying.

Soccer is professional across Europe & far more than 80% of those teams are never, ever, going to win a major trophy.
How would going professional share the silverware in any way?

deadybai wrote: »

However, The Austrailian football league is an indigenous professionally run sport. If that can become professional,why cant GAA?

Australia:
Population 23,725,000
no of teams : 18

Ireland:
population: 6,378,000
no of teams: 67

question answered

windy shepard henderson

take a look at the league of ireland and how much teams struggle to pay up keeps and pay a part time squad of 20 or 22 500 euro a week , it could never work ,
the league of ireland attendances are pretty much in line with average nfl/nhl league attendances and most qualifiers attendance's between 1500 to 4500

i would be in be in favor of something like you see in collage american football or testimonials in soccer in which teams get a percentage of the attendances for provincial finals and and from the 1/4 finals onward's in both championships

i would also be in favor of player endorsements from sponsors something the gaa put a stop to a few years ago , all would be sustainable but would never happen

aidan24326

deadybai wrote: »

If GAA did become professional then there would have to be a no transfer policy.

As others have pointed out you CAN'T have a no-transfer policy if you go professional, it's against employment law to prevent a player leaving once his contract expires. That's what the Bosman ruling in soccer was all about.

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I could easily see a good few lads not bothering much in school, or going to college, knowing they will be on the county team by 19/20. But then at retirement having no useful skills to get employment, or money saved up.

This would be a big problem. I mean it's grand if you're a premier league soccer player earning a couple of million per year, so long as you're not stupid with your money (as mentioned earlier some of them obviously are, but not all) then you're going to retire with a nice few quid in the bank. You have a nest egg.

If GAA went pro it's hard to see how the wages would be anything more than the industrial average at best. Fine while you're playing but not much use when you retire at 35 and find your options very limited.

Comparisons with Aussie AFL are no use. It's a bigger country with a bigger population and it's worth noting that the salaries in AFL aren't all that amazing either. The top players make a nice bit of money but in general it's not a sport that's going to make you rich.

Grudaire

aidan24326 wrote: »

As others have pointed out you CAN'T have a no-transfer policy if you go professional, it's against employment law to prevent a player leaving once his contract expires. That's what the Bosman ruling in soccer was all about

Would it be possible to hire people centrally, ie directly by the GAA?

aidan24326

Grudaire wrote: »

Would it be possible to hire people centrally, ie directly by the GAA?

Possibly, but where would the money come from?

Cats fur sale

No.

Darkest Horse

The game will go pro eventually. I see in the paper today that Kieran Donaghy has left his job and will concentrate more on football for the summer. Human nature dictates that the players will eventually want their cut - of that there is no doubt. In fact the only doubt is about when it will happen and how many teams will be able to turn pro because despite what some people think, there will not be 32 counties each paying their players the average wage. You might even have more teams centred on the capital and if it goes totally open, what is to prevent a rich club buying its way onto the intercounty scene? That might sound ridiculous but "counties" as we know them in the geographical sense may no longer be the framework for the nation-wide game. If any entity has enough money, it could propel itself into a professional structure.

The Lost Sheep

Darkest Horse wrote: »

The game will go pro eventually. I see in the paper today that Kieran Donaghy has left his job and will concentrate more on football for the summer. Human nature dictates that the players will eventually want their cut - of that there is no doubt. In fact the only doubt is about when it will happen and how many teams will be able to turn pro because despite what some people think, there will not be 32 counties each paying their players the average wage. You might even have more teams centred on the capital and if it goes totally open, what is to prevent a rich club buying its way onto the intercounty scene? That might sound ridiculous but "counties" as we know them in the geographical sense may no longer be the framework for the nation-wide game. If any entity has enough money, it could propel itself into a professional structure.

Possibly semi pro as professionalism as there wouldn't be funds to help every county in both hurling/gaelic go pro
How to make geographic areas to be pro entities is an issue and how to make pro teams.
Rugby had it easy as there was the 4 provinces which had played all through the sports existence here and it has an international element. How to make something work in gaelic/hurling is an issue. Especially in relation to ROI

Realt Dearg Sec

By announcing that he has no intention of working, and no intention of looking for work, has Donaghy not more or less invited the DSP to cut off his benefits, to which he is not entitled if he isn't actively seeking work?

ProudDUB

He hasn't announced that he has no intention of looking for work.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerry-captain-kieran-donaghy-denies-becoming-a-fulltime-footballer-31220331.html

Realt Dearg Sec

ProudDUB wrote: »

He hasn't announced that he has no intention of looking for work.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kerry-captain-kieran-donaghy-denies-becoming-a-fulltime-footballer-31220331.html

Fair enough, the Indo article I read this morning painted a very different picture (I dunno how many times I need to be misled by their bull**** before learning a lesson, but that's another issue). I had thought at the time that the notion of his getting a severance package didn't make sense if he was just quitting the place.

ProudDUB

Right you are boss.

I'd be of the opinion that Joe Brolly is correct when he says that the demands of the inter county training schedules are now so worryingly intense, that players are making short term educational and career choices to fit those training demands. I agree with him that these choices may very well have long term detrimental effects on their lives, their careers and their ability to earn a living on a long term basis. Unfortunately Brolly is such a divisive figure, a lot of people automatically dismiss any and everything that he says, without pausing to think if what he is saying has any merit. That is a shame, as he does raise some very valid points on occasion.

That being said, I don't really understand why the 3 players who recently left their Ulster Bank jobs, felt the need to go public with their decisions. I am sure that lots of players have left jobs with struggling companies to take up more stable and secure employment else where. They don't all feel the need to give interviews about it though.

noonoo104

To a certain extent definitely. The players should be payed a good wage for playing. Only if there on the squad that is. Most gaa players are in better shape than the highest payed footballers in the premier league so they deserve to be paid for it.

Darkest Horse

noonoo104 wrote: »

To a certain extent definitely. The players should be payed a good wage for playing. Only if there on the squad that is. Most gaa players are in better shape than the highest payed footballers in the premier league so they deserve to be paid for it.

Why would they be paid if they were not actually in the squad?

Also, you can't make a massive generalisation about what kind of "shape" they are in compared to other sport players? That's ludicrous.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

zombieHanalei

Funny how people still think this is feasible, attendances are not sufficiently high to sustain professional teams, put simply the money just isn't there, there would be literally nothing left to distribute back to provincial councils and back to counties and clubs.

We can only support four provincial rugby clubs, and even at that the IRFU look into the possibility of shutting Connacht down every few years. And that's pretty much only possible due to external income from the European rugby cups and tv deals and sponsorship deals. Where do people think that extra revenue will come from?

Why should the GAA constantly heavily subsidise professional teams which otherwise wouldn't be able to survive?

It's never going to happen.

Darkest Horse

zombieHanalei wrote: »

Funny how people still think this is feasible, attendances are not sufficiently high to sustain professional teams, put simply the money just isn't there, there would be literally nothing left to distribute back to provincial councils and back to counties and clubs.

We can only support four provincial rugby clubs, and even at that the IRFU look into the possibility of shutting Connacht down every few years. And that's pretty much only possible due to external income from the European rugby cups and tv deals and sponsorship deals. Where do people think that extra revenue will come from?

Why should the GAA constantly heavily subsidise professional teams which otherwise wouldn't be able to survive?

It's never going to happen.

Because there would only be a handful, maybe 10-12. Have a look at League 1 football in the UK or Super Rugby in the southern hemisphere. Would you say high attendances are sustaining those teams? I certainly don't think so. Money comes from sponsorship, tv rights etc.

zombieHanalei

Darkest Horse wrote: »

Because there would only be a handful, maybe 10-12. Have a look at League 1 football in the UK or Super Rugby in the southern hemisphere. Would you say high attendances are sustaining those teams? I certainly don't think so. Money comes from sponsorship, tv rights etc.

There already is sponsorship and tv rights; how do you propose quadrupling that over its present level?

League one gets attendances that would actually match the home gates most counties get for the average home game, plus they get about 20 more home games per season than the average county.

Super 12 has a target audience of millions and is genuinely appealing for sponsors and tv companies. Their audience that dwarfs that of the GAA.

Sorry, but your analogies are deeply flawed.

Darkest Horse

zombieHanalei wrote: »

There already is sponsorship and tv rights; how do you propose quadrupling that over its present level?

League one gets attendances that would actually match the home gates most counties get for the average home game, plus they get about 20 more home games per season than the average county.

Super 12 has a target audience of millions and is genuinely appealing for sponsors and tv companies. Their audience that dwarfs that of the GAA.

Sorry, but your analogies are deeply flawed.

No need to be sorry. A pro GAA league would have many more games than it currently does which creates many more opportunities for sponsors and increased attendances. A professional game would also have a much bigger profile and would be commercially more attractive.

The GAA make a healthy surplus each year already and players can see that. Whether or not you or I think it's financially viable my main point is that calls for professionalism are only going to get louder and sooner or later, the GAA will have to act on them. I'm 39 now but by the time I'm in my sixties, the game will have gone "open".

Fr Tod Umptious

Darkest Horse wrote: »

No need to be sorry. A pro GAA league would have many more games than it currently does which creates many more opportunities for sponsors and increased attendances. A professional game would also have a much bigger profile and would be commercially more attractive.

The GAA make a healthy surplus each year already and players can see that. Whether or not you or I think it's financially viable my main point is that calls for professionalism are only going to get louder and sooner or later, the GAA will have to act on them. I'm 39 now but by the time I'm in my sixties, the game will have gone "open".

A professional GAA Football structure would have 6, possibly 8 teams.

1 Dublin
1 Rest of Leinster
1 Ulster
1 Connacht
1 Kerry
1 Rest of Munster.

That's about all that could be supported.

The critical mass of population does not exist to make it viable.

Realt Dearg Sec

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A professional GAA Football structure would have 6, possibly 8 teams.

1 Dublin
1 Rest of Leinster
1 Ulster
1 Connacht
1 Kerry
1 Rest of Munster.

That's about all that could be supported.

The critical mass of population does not exist to make it viable.

C'MON REST OF LEINSTER!!

Yeah I don't see that taking off.

Fr Tod Umptious

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

C'MON REST OF LEINSTER!!

Yeah I don't see that taking off.

What's wrong with it , the name.

Rest of Leinster is not the name of the team. Its just my belief that there may not be enough of a market to sustain more than one team outside of Dublin in Leinster.