should the gaa turn professional?

emigrate2012

I'm posting this because I think the gaa should turn pro.

I know a lot of people will strongly resist the notion of our games being ""pay for play", but in all fairness is it not basically already in place among inter-county players?
I'd imagine that very very few county players are uunemployed,it's a given that the perks of being an inter-county player is easier to secure employment etc,as somebody with very limited eexperience the gaa,pay for play is inevitable?

Payment would lead to more development,in infrastructure, and exporting two of the most exciting and skillful games ever to grace the earth.

?????

OldMrBrennan83

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joebloggs32

emigrate2012 wrote: »

I'm posting this because I think the gaa should turn pro.

I know a lot of people will strongly resist the notion of our games being ""pay for play", but in all fairness is it not basically already in place among inter-county players?
I'd imagine that very very few county players are uunemployed,it's a given that the perks of being an inter-county player is easier to secure employment etc,as somebody with very limited eexperience the gaa,pay for play is inevitable?

Payment would lead to more development,in infrastructure, and exporting two of the most exciting and skillful games ever to grace the earth.

?????

There are lots of unemployed players, and in fact many employers look negatively on their staff partaking in gaa at inter county level due to the commitment now demanded by teams.

As regards pay for play it would not be sustainable. Most counties actually struggle to cover the expenses as it is. The only chance would be if counties merged, however that would run the danger of actually losing support as people might not feel the same sense of loyalty to a new entity.

Realt Dearg Sec

emigrate2012 wrote: »

I'm posting this because I think the gaa should turn pro.

I know a lot of people will strongly resist the notion of our games being ""pay for play", but in all fairness is it not basically already in place among inter-county players?
I'd imagine that very very few county players are uunemployed,it's a given that the perks of being an inter-county player is easier to secure employment etc,as somebody with very limited eexperience the gaa,pay for play is inevitable?

Payment would lead to more development,in infrastructure, and exporting two of the most exciting and skillful games ever to grace the earth.

?????

I can see benefits to it but the drawbacks are too much to tolerate. Not sure how professionalism would enable us to export it (I'm not saying it wouldn't, just wondering how). I think the benefits in terms of getting a job are over stated but also don't see how such a perk necessarily files logically to professionalism. The benefits in infrastructure I simply don't see, the income to the association wouldn't change, at best they would stay the same, but the payments would be atruly massive draw on resources.

More importantly, the county structure would collapse because you couldn't afford to sustain that many teams. Not to mention that free movement of players stood destroy the unique facet of the games: that you are truly representing the place you are from (I know there's exceptions) in a sport that's an expression of the character of that place. You also lose the connection between elite players and their home club. These are not things to be sacrificed lightly.

Not to mention that the players wouldn't earn very much at all, outside the elite of the elite who can get sponsorship and stuff, and that is at the expense of years during which your post play career is on hold. That is fixable, since the gpa is already in place and could assist, but the other stuff just means that for me it would involve losing too much about what makes the games unique and great.

There would be a serious lift in the quality of play and fitness, but that seems to me a fairly meagre payback for everything we'd have sacrificed to get it.

thelad95

Where would the money for wages come from? GAA clubs are run by volunteers and donations with some money coming down from HQ and some clubs are struggling to survive as it is.

The problem is, a lot of players are now behaving exactly like professionals in terms of preparation and training.

ProudDUB

emigrate2012 wrote: »

I'd imagine that very very few county players are uunemployed,it's a given that the perks of being an inter-county player is easier to secure employment etc,as somebody with very limited eexperience the gaa,pay for play is inevitable?

According to Joe Brolly, a lot of inter county players from Ulster are unemployed. They get by on a combination of expenses, grants, GPA handouts, mickey mouse coaching jobs & part time jobs arranged by the county board, that allows theme all the time off they need to train. They have enough to get by on, especially if they live at home or share a house with a load of like minded lads. But they are not employed in "proper" jobs, whereby they are building a career that will support them long after they retire, that has a pension and promotional prospects, that they could support a family on, or pay a mortgage on. So, I suppose it depends on what you mean by "employed."

I'd say that for every high profile player with a cushy job in bank, or as a sales rep with one of the GAA's sponsors, there are dozens of others who aren't quite so fortunate. The Bernard Brogans and the Colm Coopers and Henry Sheflins of the world probably won't ever have to worry about paying the bills, even after they have retired. Do people really think that the back up goalie for the Carlow footballers, or the cornerback for the Antrim hurlers will be so fortunate? I doubt it somehow.

Anyway, will professionalism (in the same guise as rugby and soccer) ever happen? No it won't. The GAA doesn't make enough money to pay a salary to 30 odd players from 32 counties. Or if it does, it will mean very serious cutbacks in all other areas of GAA activity, that will have a negative impact on the game at all levesl from grass roots on upwards. So while professionalism in the traditional sense is not going to happen, I do think that the players should get a bigger slice of the financial pie than they currently do. It is only fair, given the massive sacrifices that they are all called on to make these days, if they want to make it at inter county level.

keane2097

How many of the players in the All Ireland football semi-finals were unemployed or students at an unusually late age?

Brolly is just making stuff up as per always - it's perfectly possible to play at the very highest level and maintain a demanding profession.

wandatowell

Would going semi-pro be an option?

Kind of a pay-as-you-play setup???

thehouses

Sky sports brought a great deal of money to the English Premier League. That would one possible way of funding professionalism.

thinkstoomuch1

keane2097 wrote: »

How many of the players in the All Ireland football semi-finals were unemployed or students at an unusually late age?

Brolly is just making stuff up as per always - it's perfectly possible to play at the very highest level and maintain a demanding profession.

Brian cody dismissed brolly views
Aidan Walsh also did that players were indented slaves
Liam o Neill said he asked brolly support training programme ban but declined now he's preaching other side

Not he makes things up he tends run hare and chase with hound and actually forget which side he is actually on at times

Mackas_view

Brolly is just making stuff up as per always - it's perfectly possible to play at the very highest level and maintain a demanding profession.[/quote]

keane2097 wrote: »

How many of the players in the All Ireland football semi-finals were unemployed or students at an unusually late age?

Brolly is just making stuff up as per always - it's perfectly possible to play at the very highest level and maintain a demanding profession.

Please do explain? How does a young solicitor, secondary school teacher, builder or a member of the fire service divide their time equally to each aspect of their life, give the nature of the jobs listed above and the demands an inter county footballer or hurler has to live with today?

That's before you take into consideration his family life, wife, children, other dependants etc.

Mackas_view

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Brian cody dismissed brolly views
Aidan Walsh also did that players were indented slaves
Liam o Neill said he asked brolly support training programme ban but declined now he's preaching other side

Not he makes things up he tends run hare and chase with hound and actually forget which side he is actually on at times

Forget about brolly here folks and remember the topic at hand. It's near impossible nowadays to keep your inter county manager and your boss happy.

keane2097

Mackas_view wrote: »

Please do explain? How does a young solicitor, secondary school teacher, builder or a member of the fire service divide their time equally to each aspect of their life, give the nature of the jobs listed above and the demands an inter county footballer or hurler has to live with today?

That's before you take into consideration his family life, wife, children, other dependants etc.

The 2014 All Ireland winning football team included a vet, a chemical engineer, a pharmacist, accountant, teacher, guard... These are some of the highest level, most dedicated footballers in the country and seem to be able to hold down highly professional jobs.

I'm more interested in who these legions of players Brolly talks about who are unemployed, which are the guys who are in college till they're 30 etc?

I don't know who these guys are that he talks about, but they don't seem to appear in the latter stages of the All Ireland so I'm not convinced it's doing their football any good.

Of course Joe and others don't tend to consider the idea that not every guy who plays football would be capable of being a brain surgeon whether they played football or not.

keane2097

Mackas_view wrote: »

Forget about brolly here folks and remember the topic at hand. It's near impossible nowadays to keep your inter county manager and your boss happy.

I don't think this is anywhere near proven. Very inclined to call it straight up incorrect.

OldMrBrennan83

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zombieHanalei

Much easier to agree and enforce training restrictions with severe penalties handed out to counties for over training players.

Professionalism is simply not viable, there is no way it would be financially sustainable.

ProudDUB

keane2097 wrote: »

How many of the players in the All Ireland football semi-finals were unemployed or students at an unusually late age?

If you play for one of the 4 semifinalists, odds are your county is powerful enough and successful enough to assist with the dig outs & the myriad of promotional opportunities. Last time I checked, there were 28 other counties involved in the set up.

But when it comes to being employed, I'd genuinely like to know, how many of the 4 semi finalists....

- are doctors, solicitors, accountants, engineers, tax consultants, auctioneers etc etc or were training to be one, or were doing work experience to be one, that entailed a Mon-Fri 9-5 job, all year around lifestyle commitment. Add full time plumbers, chefs, electricians etc etc to that list while you are at it.

- how many are gym managers, part time strength and conditioning coaches (as opposed to Bryan Cullen's full time, official role with Leinster rugby) in their 6th or 7th year of college, teachers, recent sports science or sports psychology graduates who don't have full time jobs in their chosen field, sales reps/promotional officers for GAA or county sponsors, who work no more than 20 hrs a week.

There are jobs and then there are jobs.....

keane2097

ProudDUB wrote: »

If you play for one of the 4 semifinalists, odds are your county is powerful enough and successful enough to assist with the dig outs & the myriad of promotional opportunities. Last time I checked, there were 28 other counties involved in the set up.

But when it comes to being employed, I'd genuinely like to know, how many of the 4 semi finalists....

- are doctors, solicitors, accountants, engineers, tax consultants, auctioneers etc etc or were training to be one, or were doing work experience to be one, that entailed a Mon-Fri 9-5 job, all year around lifestyle commitment. Add full time plumbers, chefs, electricians etc etc to that list while you are at it.

- how many are gym managers, part time strength and conditioning coaches (as opposed to Bryan Cullen's full time, official role with Leinster rugby) in their 6th or 7th year of college, teachers, recent sports science or sports psychology graduates who don't have full time jobs in their chosen field, sales reps/promotional officers for GAA or county sponsors, who work no more than 20 hrs a week.

There are jobs and then there are jobs.....

I think it's pretty poor to suggest many if any of these guys have their jobs based on anything other than merit.

The KCB giving a nudge and a wink to the likes of Pfizer and KPMG, yeah right.

The point of mentioning the four semi-finalists is to prove that players at the very peak of dedication in the game can hold down any profession they want.

ProudDUB

Well, you know more about your own county than I do, but I can guarantee you that more lads from my own county are in the second category, than the first one.

If some like Bernard Brogan is coming out and saying that he chose to study accountancy, as it left him with more time to train for GAA, than if he was studying engineering, I seriously doubt if he is the only one to make a choice like that. I wonder how many lads are in teacher training college, as they have a genuine passion for teaching & education. Or are they there because they get two months off every summer and they knock off work every day at 3.30?

ArmaniJeanss

thehouses wrote: »

Sky sports brought a great deal of money to the English Premier League. That would one possible way of funding professionalism.

Rupert isn't running a charity, Sky didn't 'bring a great deal of money to the EPL' for some altruistic reason. They paid what was necessary to (a) win the rights from their rival broadcasters and (b) still leave themselves a profit. As it happened the amount of money in (a) was enough to fund astronomical wages for the players.

But do some math of what would actually be required for GAA to 'go professional'. Lets say 45 county squads of 25 professional players earning merely the average industrial wage of €40K per annum. Thats €45M a year. I doubt Sky are actually paying more than a couple of million a year.

nice_guy80

No

thehouses

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Rupert isn't running a charity, Sky didn't 'bring a great deal of money to the EPL' for some altruistic reason. They paid what was necessary to (a) win the rights from their rival broadcasters and (b) still leave themselves a profit. As it happened the amount of money in (a) was enough to fund astronomical wages for the players.

But do some math of what would actually be required for GAA to 'go professional'. Lets say 45 county squads of 25 professional players earning merely the average industrial wage of €40K per annum. Thats €45M a year. I doubt Sky are actually paying more than a couple of million a year.

I never said Sky were doing this for altruistic reasons. They are probably testing the market at the moment to see how much they can make going forward. It would be interesting however to see how much the GAA are getting from the TV deal at the moment and remember this amount could increase in the future providing the coverage is successful beyond the Irish market.

ProudDUB

thehouses wrote: »

I never said Sky were doing this for altruistic reasons. They are probably testing the market at the moment to see how much they can make going forward. It would be interesting however to see how much the GAA are getting from the TV deal at the moment and remember this amount could increase in the future providing the coverage is successful beyond the Irish market.

I am open to correction on this, but I think that the GAA said that they got roughly the same amount of money for media deals/TV coverage this year, as they got in previous years. The accounts that they release every year back that up. They stated a figure that was roughly the same as in other years, it just didn't give a break down of what TV or radio station was paying what. So its not as if the previous deals netted them X amount of euros & the Sky deal added bazillions on top of that. The GAA went with Sky deal, as it offered up the opportunity to expand into the UK market, not because Sky was putting a boat load more money on the table.

citykat

Never going to happen. Stay in college; apprenticeship; foreign country; humdrum job: whichever applies.

freddiek

the GAA is professional.

oh wait...thats just the physical training required to play at the highest level. But as far as the idea of professional rewards go, the players can go take a running jump..

That seems to be the attitude of many GAA supporters.

I personally would not care a fig if standards dropped if it meant that players would have more free time to spend with their families instead of being virtual strangers in the months and weeks before an all-ireland.

We can not keep expecting players to make the sacrifices they do without someone shouting 'STOP' sooner or later.

Its up to the players reps. to speak sense on this as the greedy GAA brass has never prioritised player welfare too much. Too busy looking at their cash registers.

GAA players are being mugged off and they are complicit in it.

Last year SKY Sports featured GAA for the first time ever. Name me ONE other sport they show where the players put in so much time and draw such big crowds for NO remuneration?

I'm sure SKY didn't even inform their audiences of the anomaly where amateur athletes make professional sacrifices yet they're supposed to be glad of the opportunity to do so and we're all happy as larry about it?? The uninitiated wouldn't believe it.

NIMAN

No-one is forcing them to do it, are they?

If it is ruining their family life/social life whatever, they can always opt out of playing, and perhaps just play club level instead of county.

bruschi

if someone can please show me how they will be able to generate the income to make this professional, then I would debate it.

Until then, it's just a load of noise and a discussion about nothing.

If players are feeling hard done by, doing professional training in an amatuer environment, then stop. No one is forcing them to do this. Club level is their lot if this is an issue.

Sport in itself is where you push yourself to your absolute limit to achieve as much as you can and be the best sportsperson you can be. Do people really think they should stop players being as good as they can so they have a bit more free time for themselves?

Nermal

bruschi wrote: »

if someone can please show me how they will be able to generate the income to make this professional, then I would debate it.

Why is everyone assuming the GAA must ensure all counties have to pay for fully professional teams?

Perhaps only some counties go fully professional, some partly, some not at all.

bruschi

Nermal wrote: »

Why is everyone assuming the GAA must ensure all counties have to pay for fully professional teams?

Perhaps only some counties go fully professional, some partly, some not at all.

ok, so the counties that go professional, who are they? And the ones that dont, who are they? What about top class players from the non professional counties, what do they do?

OldMrBrennan83

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bruschi

Patww79 wrote: »

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exactly. make half of them professional means you can pretty much write off GAA in half of the country.