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Outrageous Sexual Assuault

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    #242
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,027 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    UCDVet wrote: »
    I also agree 100% that it would be much better if people (male or female) would simply confess their sexual interest. I don't know how well that will work in practice, but in theory, it would be great.
    Sounds like an easy way to potentially lose a friendship if it's someone you know. Or being rapidly labelled a creep if it's some passing random stranger.


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    #243
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    eviltwin wrote: »
    No I understand what he means. I get that there are situations where people will say no. In your situation the fact she was still happy to continue lying there with you says a lot. Also when she said no you stopped and then tried again after a brief pause. If she had been trying to get away I doubt you would have persisted, you would have known that she wasn't into it. I know UCDVet isn't saying what this guy did was okay or acceptable but when you post on a sex assault thread that sometimes no means yes then its easy to see how people get pissed off by it.

    I don't mean to piss anyone off. It's obviously a very serious topic.

    I really do think (at least some) of the disagreement or whatever, is just that there were so many posts happening so fast. So the context sort of gets lost and people just look at a post to stand on it's own.

    Anyway, my apologies to anyone I've pissed off. At most, I like to mildly annoy.


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    #244
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    hollster2 wrote: »
    I read what he did and to me he got what he deserved dont know if your male or female but imagine it was your girlfriend/wife/daughter came home to you and said this is what happened would you not try everthing to see he got what he deserved?
    No I wouldn't as I'm not a complete psychopath.

    Destroying the mans life over what he done is not what he deserved. If you seriously think that you'd want your head checked.


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    #245
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    LorMal wrote: »
    I am not condoning it. I just think the impact on his life is devastating and cruel. I believe it is not proportionate.
    However, you see it differently and I respect that. I imagine it is intolerable to be on the receiving end of such behavior and I am very sorry to hear that it happened to you.

    This was not a serious case. His life is ruined forever.

    The punishment of a fine was completely appropriate. The courts did the right thing.

    As for his wife, do you expect her to just ignore it and carry on? At worst he is a sex offender, at best he is a husband who tried it on with another woman.

    His job? How can any solicitors firm retain someone who has a conviction, its probably not even legally possible to keep your license so they possibly have no choice but to let him go. Even if they could they have to think of the impact keeping him on would have on business.

    Losing friends, your reputation are just natural byproducts of things like this and he has no one to blame but himself.


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    #246
    circadian
    Registered Users Posts: 6,935 ✭✭✭circadian


    Holsten wrote: »
    Losing your job, possible family, friends, criminal conviction, problems with travel, insurance, visas for the rest of your life is just desserts for what he done?

    Did you read what he actually done? And you agree? Madness.

    Ah right, sure it's grand. A misdemeanor. So he gets away with it, what next?

    It is no way to behave in any situation and like I said, he should know the full ramifications of behavior like this and the possible legal and personal fallout of it. It was inappropriate behavior and if he had stopped when he was asked, I'd imagine that would have been that but his persistence in invading someone elses personal space in a sexual way means any fallout is his own doing. It may be harsh, but he has noone to blame but himself.


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    #247
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    Holsten wrote: »
    No I wouldn't as I'm not a complete psychopath.

    Destroying the mans life over what he done is not what he deserved. If you seriously think that you'd want your head checked.
    I dont need my head checked so you would let someone away with this if they did it to a family member bull****!


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    #248
    DivingDuck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭DivingDuck


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Sounds like an easy way to potentially lose a friendship if it's someone you know. Or being rapidly labelled a creep if it's some passing random stranger.

    The alternative in question here is continuing to feel someone up even after they've said no. I think a verbal confession would be vastly preferable.


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    #249
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Holsten wrote: »
    No I wouldn't as I'm not a complete psychopath.

    Destroying the mans life over what he done is not what he deserved. If you seriously think that you'd want your head checked.

    What is an appropriate punishment in a case like this?


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    #250
    Steppenwolfe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 416 ✭✭Steppenwolfe


    He obviously did wrong, but you've got to be some piece of work to destroy someones life like that.


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    #251
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    The punishment of a fine was completely appropriate. The courts did the right thing.

    As for his wife, do you expect her to just ignore it and carry on? At worst he is a sex offender, at best he is a husband who tried it on with another woman.

    His job? How can any solicitors firm retain someone who has a conviction, its probably not even legally possible to keep your license so they possibly have no choice but to let him go. Even if they could they have to think of the impact keeping him on would have on business.

    Losing friends, your reputation are just natural byproducts of things like this and he has no one to blame but himself.

    You have made that point already a number of times. It is his fault. No-one disputes that. There is a difference between showing compassion for a guilty person and condoning his actions.


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    #252
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    The whole "I groped a work colleague on a night out but I was just drunk" is just disgusting. I'm unfortunate to have heard it as an excuse a few times. If you don't think that is wrong you need to take a good hard look at your morals.

    She told him to respect her personal space - it is a clear message.


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    #253
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    LorMal wrote: »
    You have made that point already a number of times. It is his fault. No-one disputes that. There is a difference between showing compassion for a guilty person and condoning his actions.

    Do you have any compassion for his victim?


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    #254
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    No wonder so many woman and including some men dont come forward when people do innapropriate things to them because there always going to be "ah sure he didnt mean it his jobs gone and its effected his family" to the people saying his fine was to much b****x to that


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    #255
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    SimonTemplar wrote: »
    The whole "I groped a work colleague on a night out but I was just drunk" is just disgusting. I'm unfortunate to have heard it as an excuse a few times. If you don't think that is wrong you need to take a good hard look at your morals.

    She told him to respect her personal space - it is a clear message.

    no one is condoning what he did.


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    #256
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Sounds like an easy way to potentially lose a friendship if it's someone you know. Or being rapidly labelled a creep if it's some passing random stranger.

    Well, exactly.

    Maybe with apps like Tinder and whatever else, things will be easier. I suppose if enough people went to online dating we could avoid a lot of this.....But I know that when I was growing up, everyone was afraid to show their hand, so to speak.

    I remember standing with sweaty palms outside her door saying 'Good night' after an awkward date trying to decide if I should kiss her. In theory, it'd much nicer if we just said, 'I would like to kiss you, would you like to kiss me too?' or whatever. Of course, nobody I knew ever did that. So you'd lean in and try to kiss her. Or you'd chicken out. Or, if you were really lucky, she'd kiss you.

    And that's after you've had a date. I still remember that youtube video of the girl walking down the street - and yes - a bunch of comments were inappropriate....but a lot of them were just guys saying 'Hi'. If a girl is walking past you and you say, 'Hi' - many people find that offensive.

    I can't imagine what would happen if you said, 'Hi, I find you physically attractive and would like to have sex with you. If you are interested, I'd like to discuss terms and positions....'

    I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see people being that open and honest with strangers, acquaintances, or honestly, even significant others. There are certainly married couples who aren't able to talk honestly about all of their sexual desires and what not, even after being together for years.


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    #257
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Do you have any compassion for his victim?

    Yes


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    #258
    DivingDuck
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭DivingDuck


    LorMal wrote: »
    You have made that point already a number of times. It is his fault. No-one disputes that. There is a difference between showing compassion for a guilty person and condoning his actions.

    Compassion cannot be allowed prevent someone who has broken the law from being punished by it.


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    #259
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What is an appropriate punishment in a case like this?
    The swift elbow and "Fu*k off" he already got.

    No need at all to involve the police in this.


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    #260
    UCDVet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    hollster2 wrote: »
    No wonder so many woman and including some men dont come forward when people do innapropriate things to them because there always going to be "ah sure he didnt mean it his jobs gone and its effected his family" to the people saying his fine was to much b****x to that

    Yeah - I really don't understand why people would look at the victim. If you think the punishment is too harsh, surely it is the legal system's fault and should be addressed appropriately.

    Not by expecting the victim not to report it.


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    #261
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    There is an attitude amongst a subset of men who think randomly groping women during a night out is part and parcel of the going out experience and culture.

    Maybe they would think differently if a similar number of women thought that randomly kneeing guys in the balls was also part and parcel of the going out experience and culture.


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    #262
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Holsten wrote: »
    For what happened in his case?

    Relationship? Wouldn't care.
    Job? Doesn't affect his job in the slightest, wouldn't care.
    Working with kids? She was a grown woman, wouldn't care.

    So you agree that what he done justifies the punishments he'll receive?

    I would be concerned about his professionalism


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    #263
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    LorMal wrote: »
    Your point is that he only received a fine (a pretty hefty fine). That's true and I fully accept that.

    My point is that the consequences for him run a lot deeper and will negatively impact his live very severely and probably forever.

    Therefore, I believe this to be unfair. I have made really stupid mistakes myself in the past. Most people have.

    This could have been handled better in my opinion. Again, that is not to condone his actions but to have some compassion.

    ???


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    #264
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    LorMal wrote: »
    I am not condoning it. I just think the impact on his life is devastating and cruel. I believe it is not proportionate.
    However, you see it differently and I respect that. I imagine it is intolerable to be on the receiving end of such behavior and I am very sorry to hear that it happened to you.

    This was not a serious case. His life is ruined forever.

    It's not, less of the hyperbole


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    #265
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Holsten wrote: »
    The swift elbow and "Fu*k off" he already got.

    No need at all to involve the police in this.

    It wasn't just a guy chancing his arm. He was at this for 15 mins despite his colleagues and the victims son trying to get him to stop. What's worse is he thinks it was all just a bit of fun. He doesn't even recognise that what he did was wrong.

    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/solicitor-christopher-logue-guilty-of-sexual-assault-on-female-colleague-1-6476882


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    #266
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    What were the long term effects on the victim?


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    #267
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Steppenwolfe wrote: »
    He obviously did wrong, but you've got to be some piece of work to destroy someones life like that.


    It isn't the woman's fault his life is destroyed. She never asked to be groped in the first place. He should have thought about that before he thought it was acceptable to grope her.

    Perhaps if more people were like the woman he groped, then that might cause some people pause for thought before they act.


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    #268
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It wasn't just a guy chancing his arm. He was at this for 15 mins despite his colleagues and the victims son trying to get him to stop. What's worse is he thinks it was all just a bit of fun. He doesn't even recognise that what he did was wrong.

    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/solicitor-christopher-logue-guilty-of-sexual-assault-on-female-colleague-1-6476882

    So there was so much more to the story then what was in the first post what a utter creep eviltwin Theres always going to be a few people that "have" to disagree and the way people are saying he didnt deserve what he got are just idiots tbh, like you said you experienced a similar incident I know id have done the same as that woman !


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    #269
    Bootros Bootros
    Closed Accounts Posts: 274 ✭✭Bootros Bootros


    jimgoose wrote: »
    As a real Alpha Male, it is never unclear to me how to proceed. I know by looking at anyone's eyes what the next move is. It is never to physically intimidate, or throw weight around. The other thing I don't do is go running to moderators like a little girl with the "Report" button. ;)

    Lol. 7000 posts from an alpha male. Hahaha.


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    #270
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    What has this got to do with politics mate?


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    #271
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    I'd have assumed the comments about how his life is ruined because this "piece of work" complained him, rather than... his... own behaviour, would be a piss-take - or if serious, from Return Of Kings or some nutter site like that.
    But alas, it seems it's for real... :-/

    Harsh on him perhaps - I'd be lying if I said I didn't have some bit of sympathy towards the man too, but taking the responsibility away from him, and depicting the villain here as the woman who was on the receiving end of his unwanted sexual overtures, is a bridge entirely too far.
    The way some people think women should keep their mouths shut about experiencing something like this, is scary.
    Men certainly shouldn't have to be ok about such treatment either btw.

    I worked with a woman who was being sexually harassed. Precisely attitudes like the above prevented her from reporting it. And I kinda didn't blame her, which is a really sad part.


This discussion has been closed.
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