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Outrageous Sexual Assuault

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    #272
    Zippie84
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Zippie84


    6541 wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30899735

    This chap was done for sexual assault. Man if that is sexual assault then I should be and dare I say it most red blooded men should be locked up. This is way to PC. As a man I am insulted. How the fock are ya supposed to get the ride ?

    It says that in addition to the issues of pestering her etc, despite being asked to leave her alone, that he touched her inappropriately. You really think prosecuting someone for touching another person is being PC?


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    #273
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I know that on other threads there has been discussion about rape culture and while I'm not necessarily saying that such a phrase would apply here, do people not recognise that there is something very, very wrong when a woman who is repeatedly groped is blamed for ruining a man's life for reporting the assault and when a the behaviour of a man who repeatedly gropes a woman is waved away as 'Well, sometimes when women say no they don't really mean no'? Because, frankly, this is rape culture and rapist thinking.


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    #274
    Zippie84
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Zippie84


    Duggy747 wrote: »
    "Man arrested for looking at woman - Claims she was undressed by his eyes"

    Now see, that would be a story to start a thread with instead of this actual sexual assault.

    Exactly the type of thing I was half expecting to see in the original post...


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    #275
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    kylith wrote: »
    I know that on other threads there has been discussion about rape culture and while I'm not necessarily saying that such a phrase would apply here, do people not recognise that there is something very, very wrong when a woman who is repeatedly groped is blamed for ruining a man's life for reporting the assault and when a the behaviour of a man who repeatedly gropes a woman is waved away as 'Well, sometimes when women say no they don't really mean no'? Because, frankly, this is rape culture and rapist thinking.
    It is indeed like the kind of thing a rapist or rapist apologist would say, for sure, but I think the reason the term "rape culture" is objected to, is because it implies it's so widespread, nearly implicit in society. Whereas, the vast majority of men, going by this thread alone, think it's despicable.
    It's not a small problem either though.


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    #276
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Venus In Furs wrote: »
    It is indeed like the kind of thing a rapist or rapist apologist would say, for sure, but I think the reason the term "rape culture" is objected to, is because it implies it's so widespread, nearly implicit in society. Whereas, the vast majority of men, going by this thread alone, think is despicable.
    It's not a small problem either though.

    That's why I was hesitant to use the term. It's good to see that the majority of men find such behaviour repugnant, but scary to see that some would see no real problem with it.


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    #277
    titchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭titchy


    Holsten wrote: »
    Losing your job, possible family, friends, criminal conviction, problems with travel, insurance, visas for the rest of your life is just desserts for what he done?


    Do you have a wife? A mother? A daughter? A sister?

    Imagine one of the above coming home, upset, crying, violated and abused in public by someone who holds superiority over them.
    Someone she probably held previously in high regard.
    She's in an awful state, confused and emotionally hurt.

    Is it still an over reaction?


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    #278
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    Holsten wrote: »
    No I wouldn't as I'm not a complete psychopath.

    Destroying the mans life over what he done is not what he deserved. If you seriously think that you'd want your head checked.
    titchy wrote: »
    Holsten wrote: »
    Losing your job, possible family, friends, criminal conviction, problems with travel, insurance, visas for the rest of your life is just desserts for what he done?


    Do you have a wife? A mother? A daughter? A sister?

    Imagine one of the above coming home, upset, crying, violated and abused in public by someone who holds superiority over them.
    Someone she probably held previously in high regard.
    She's in an awful state, confused and emotionally hurt.

    Is it still an over reaction?
    this is what he said when i asked the same thing!


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    #279
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    6541 wrote: »
    How the fock are ya supposed to get the ride

    Consensually.


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    #280
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Consensually.
    Yeh, I doubt they're for real, but if they are - they think groping a woman who keeps telling them to go away... is key to "the ride"...? :confused:


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    #281
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    LorMal wrote: »
    I am not condoning it. I just think the impact on his life is devastating and cruel. I believe it is not proportionate.
    However, you see it differently and I respect that. I imagine it is intolerable to be on the receiving end of such behavior and I am very sorry to hear that it happened to you.

    This was not a serious case. His life is ruined forever.

    Ah here. What about the victims life.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #282
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Steppenwolfe wrote: »
    He obviously did wrong, but you've got to be some piece of work to destroy someones life like that.

    His own actions did that ffs.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #283
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes

    You dont seem to though

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #284
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    6541 wrote: »
    Its madness, he is on a work night out gets drunk and has a feel, he is then landed in court. Most red blooded males do this, admit it !

    No, they don't. It's not normal at all.


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    #285
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I'm waiting for the excuses on this one that "normal red blooded" males send animal organs.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/man-sent-jar-containing-bloody-animal-organs-to-woman-1.2072727

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #286
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Venus In Furs wrote: »

    I worked with a woman who was being sexually harassed. Precisely attitudes like the above prevented her from reporting it. And I kinda didn't blame her, which is a really sad part.

    It's scary when that happens. I had similar happen to the woman in the article.

    All of you people who think it's just a laugh - see hhow you feel when someone bigger and stronger than you is grabbing you, touching you against your will. You tell him to leave you alone. Instead, he grabs you some more, showing you that he'll do what he wishes to your body. You push him off, but he's stronger, so he grabs your ass and tits some more.

    Eventually, after 5 or so minutes of shouting at him, pushing him, hitting him, he EVENTUALLY realises he needs to stop touching you, but at that stage, you're already terrified and in tears.

    You leave. You go home to your partner. They touch you sexually. You freak out because you've just been touched in those places by someone you said no to.

    Then you have to decide whether or not to tell your partner. Will they think you led him on? No normal man acts like that without encouragement, so you must have encouraged it. It must be your fault. Your boyfriend or girlfriend will probably see it like that.


    THAT is the fallout of this kind of sexual assault.

    To those saying the man shouldn't have been punished - I hope your family members never have it happen to them, and have to deal with you telling them it's nothing and to get over it.


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    #287
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Advances on someone not interested, especially after being told "No", is sexual harassment. What he's done I wouldn't exactly define as Sexual ASSAULT however, that'd make it sound like he was holding her down and groping her...


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    #288
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Advances on someone not interested, especially after being told "No", is sexual harassment. What he's done I wouldn't exactly define as Sexual ASSAULT however.

    You wouldn't count fondling somebody's breasts and bottom and sticking your head in their cleavage without their consent as a sexual assault? So, if someone kept fondling your crotch even after you'd told them to stop you wouldn't count that as you being assaulted?


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    #289
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    kylith wrote: »
    You wouldn't count fondling somebody's breasts and bottom and sticking your head in their cleavage without their consent as a sexual assault?

    Didn't see what you said being mentioned anywhere in the article --- don't try to put words in my mouth.


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    #290
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Didn't see what you said being mentioned anywhere in the article --- don't try to put words in my mouth.

    True but it does say
    During the trial, the victim gave evidence that a drunken Logue pestered her for about 15 minutes, and touched her inappropriately while the pair sat at a table during the function.


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    #291
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    During her evidence she recounted that Logue told her she “worked for s***” and that he wanted to “enjoy me” but that despite being repeatedly told to stop, “please respect my personal space” and being forcibly pushed back, including being “elbowed,” Mr Logue tried to hug her, touched her breast area, touched the top of her bum, briefly “nuzzled” his face into her breast, put his head in the lady’s lap and “lunged at me, trying to climb on top of me”.

    Yes it was sexual assault whatever you all think man or woman it happening to it is!


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    #292
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Edit --- retracting my comment after reading hollster2's post above.

    Aight, clearly forcing himself on her there.


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    #293
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Didn't see what you said being mentioned anywhere in the article --- don't try to put words in my mouth.

    The Belfast Telegraph has more detail, and was quoted earlier in the thread
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/solicitor-christopher-logue-convicted-of-leery-and-humiliating-sex-assault-during-a-legal-society-dinner-30843481.html

    She said he ignored her insistence that he "respect" her personal space and
    instead told her he would like to "enjoy" her.

    she said he tried to "nuzzle" into her chest at one stage before trying to
    climb on top of her.

    "It took two or three defensive pushes to push him off me," she said

    Describing Logue as "excitable and intoxicated", she said he tried to
    "nuzzle" into her chest at one stage before trying to climb on top of her.

    Her evidence was supported by that of her two teenage children who were
    working as waiters at the function

    Logue told the court that he was not proud of his behaviour on the night and said he could not remember the incident. He insisted his actions, which were captured by CCTV, were not sexual.

    ...

    "I thought it was great craic. Obviously she did not think so. Fair enough. I
    am not proud of acting an eejit. I am not proud of my behaviour that night."

    Whether he thought that his actions, which were caught on CCTV, so it's hardly a he-said-she-said situation, were sexual or not at the very least he thought that unwanted touching and making a person feel uncomfortable and humiliated in front of her children and colleagues was 'great craic', which is not acceptable either.


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    #294
    6541
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭6541


    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/reg...ague-1-6476882

    I think he is a bit of a dude, look he is smoking a fag and he managed to nuzzle her breasts ! Surely someone must see the funny side of that ?


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    #295
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Edit --- retracting my comment after reading hollster2's post above.

    Aight, clearly forcing himself on her there.

    It's one of the pitfalls of coming late to a thread, I'm afraid, you have to wade through the whole thing to get the full picture.


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    #296
    hollster2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭hollster2


    6541 wrote: »
    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/reg...ague-1-6476882

    I think he is a bit of a dude, look he is smoking a fag and he managed to nuzzle her breasts ! Surely someone must see the funny side of that ?
    Your just trolling now to piss people off


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    #297
    6541
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭6541


    hollster2 wrote: »
    Your just trolling now to piss people off

    To be honest, I can't believe how many people are on there high horse and morally outraged by this. The guy was pissed, he acted inappropriately. In this case it was in very public view against a woman. He should have been told to fook off and asked to leave the same way if he tried to pick a fight with his boss.
    This in no way deserved a court case. Fact.


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    #298
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    MOD: Bad troll is bad.


This discussion has been closed.
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