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Leo Varadkar comes out as gay

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    #782
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I appreciate that for many "coming out" is a huge thing. Especially for teenagers. I imagine its like letting a genie out of a bottle that just cant be put back in. But in 2015 its a tiny tiny little bit like getting engaged, or announcing at work that your pregnant. The general reaction is "Oh well ..good for you..do you know where the key to the filing cabinet is?".
    Folk wish you well but it doesn't impact on them in any way so its just not important to them. Your all het up about your big announcement and theres almost an anti-climax when Mary in accounts doesn’t faint clean away on the floor and Paddy in post doesn’t burst into tears. In my opinion we in Ireland are in various stages of readjustment regarding social issues like this. General “society” for want of a better word has adjusted like 95% to totally accepting homosexuality. I think there are far, far more problems with racism for example, then homophobia. With racism and xenophobia we might as well be in 1950s Alabama.
    However it does seem that the Gay Community are as a result have to now stop expecting people to be shocked or uncomfortable and try to stop looking for homophobia and maybe some need to get a sense of humour?
    Nobodies saying that the suffering of the past didn’t happen. It did. Its just , maybe, like the Troubles in N Ireland it might be time to start moving forward abit.
    I think what made this announcement newsworthy was not the fact that Varadker is gay, but that he was comfortable enough to drop it casually into the conversation on what used to be Radio Eireann. Changed times indeed.

    You know I really wish that was the case - my twenties would have been so much easier if it wasn't a big deal - but it would be plain wrong to say coming out isn't an issue today. It would also exhibit a lack of awareness of the world we live, and a lack of empathy and inability to understand how one might feel in that situation.

    Obviously homophobia still exists. It is still legal in certain sectors to be fired just for being gay. Discrimination still exits in other environments too. Homophobic assaults still unfortunately aren't a thing of the past. And we, as a country, are about to put LGBT peoples right to equal recogntion of their relationships to a vote.

    But even ignoring that, for any LGBT person who choses to come out, there is a real risk of rejection from both friends and family as a result.

    In my own case, I would consider my coming out to have gone reasonably well. And yet my relationship with my (then) best friend has taken a serious hit as a result of his issues with my announcement, my mother's relationship with her brother has become seriously strained due to his views on my sexuality, and I have other family members who will likely refuse to come to my civil partnership ceremony this year for similar reasons.

    Not to mention the anxiety I felt telling other friends who had previously told me in no uncertain terms they would never accept having gay friends (though thankfully they matured by the time I was ready to share) or the worry I still have as to whether acknowledging the existence of my fiance (in the way any straight man might freely acknowledge his girlfriend or wife) in professional environments might negatively impact employers or clients perceptions of me.

    And as I said, that's what is considered a "good coming out".

    So as much as I would wish you were right, you are greatly downplaying the issues gay people still face.

    PS - my fiance is not Irish or white. I think he would tell you that you over estimating the level or racism and xenophobia in Ireland and underestimating the homophobia. That said, all three are a problem and should be tackled equally. Let's not start playing discrimination top trumps, and challenge all forms of discrimination once encountered.


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    #783
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No actually, there aren't. His orientation has no bearing at all on his opinion on the upcoming referendum or anything else for that matter. Why would it?

    Did you listen to the interview?

    In his own words, he did it partly so that when somebody asks him why he is campaigning for a yes vote he can telly them honestly and freely its because he wishes to be treated equally in his own country.

    Whether he does it now or when campaigning for a yes (which he intended to do), he will have to "out" himself in order to give that answer, and its better he does so now instead of making the referendum campaign about him.

    Also, as minister for health he will have to consider issues relating to the ban on gay men giving blood. Again, better he make full disclosure now rather than face accusations that any potential decision was made on the basis of undisclosed bias.


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    #784
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    All this stuff about him going to be Ireland's first gay Taoiseach.... Sure Fiana Gael wont be in power after next wear anyway! What we need is Michael D Higgins to just admit it and come out and we'd make history by having an openly gay president!


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    #785
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    Leo Varadkar is also something much rarer than an openly gay politician- an Irish politician I admire.

    While I look forward to a day when a person's bedroom preferences are seen for what they truly are (an irrelevance), in this time and this place in his position, Varadkar's revelation did take courage.

    Varadkar sometimes seems to me like a man too good for the for the often shameful world of Irish politics. His already solid reputation for commonsense and honesty has been enhanced by this in my eyes.

    Definite future Taoiseach.


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    #786
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    floggg wrote: »
    In his own words, he did it partly so that when somebody asks him why he is campaigning for a yes vote he can telly them honestly and freely its because he wishes to be treated equally in his own country.

    Whether he does it now or when campaigning for a yes (which he intended to do), he will have to "out" himself in order to give that answer, and its better he does so now instead of making the referendum about him.
    These are contradictory. On one hand you are saying it is because "he wishes to be treated equally" and then on the other you say he shouldn't be "making the referendum about him." Can't he just campaign because it is right? It would do more damage to the No camp IMO to have them harass Varadkar over his own sexuality if he didn't come out.


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    #787
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    smash wrote: »
    All this stuff about him going to be Ireland's first gay Taoiseach.... Sure Fiana Gael wont be in power after next wear anyway

    He's only 36. Losing an election doesn't immediately see a party banned from government forever.


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    #788
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Leo Varadker is also something much rarer than an openly gay politician- an Irish politician I admire.

    While I look forward to a day when a person's bedroom preferences are seen for what they truly are (an irrelevance), in this time and this place in his position, Varadker's revelation did take courage.

    Varadker sometimes seems to me like a man too good for the for the often shameful world of Irish politics. His already solid reputation for commonsense and honesty has been enhanced by this in my eyes.

    Definite future Taoiseach.
    Maybe when he's Taoiseach you'll learn how to spell his name! (hint: it's in the thread title)


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    #789
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    These are contradictory. On one hand you are saying it is because "he wishes to be treated equally" and then on the other you say he shouldn't be "making the referendum about him." Can't he just campaign because it is right? It would do more damage to the No camp IMO to have them harass Varadkar over his own sexuality if he didn't come out.

    I had meant to say the referendum campaign about him. If he was to reveal his sexual orientation as part of any campaign event or debate, the message would be ignored and he would become the story.


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    #790
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    To be honest I'm more shocked at the amount of people that expect him to have fixed a health service that's been broken for over a decade in only 6 months since he became minister. Perspective people, Jesus Christ.
    Also, for someone who is apparently trying to sweep the A&E Trolley crisis under the carpet, he's been doing a piss poor job. the guy has been tweeting every day the trolley count since the crisis peaked. Was down around 120 yesterday I believe


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    #791
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    Also, for someone who is apparently trying to sweep the A&E Trolley crisis under the carpet, he's been doing a piss poor job. the guy has been tweeting every day the trolley count since the crisis peaked. Was down around 120 yesterday I believe
    He been tweeting since it peaked. Now that's PR for you.


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    #792
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No actually, there aren't. His orientation has no bearing at all on his opinion on the upcoming referendum or anything else for that matter. Why would it?

    Of course it does. He is personally affected!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #793
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    We've a health service that's been a shambles since the 80s and an intractable HSE that has been incapable of reform in ten years. And people are lambasting Leo for being unable to single-handedly turn it around in six months. :rolleyes: Irish people are hilarious.

    The appointment to Health was a political move by Kenny to damage the reputation of someone he saw as a contender for the throne. Reilly being the deputy leader, Kenny wanted to make sure that he didn't finish his term in Government on a bum note.

    It's possible that this was a well-timed move on Varadkar's part to give him a front-and-centre seat in the run up to the SSM referendum and ride that wave of success into the next GE.


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    #794
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    According to Miriam Lords article in todays Times:
    It is true that certain media organisations have been itching to “out” him. Queries were regularly submitted to his department seeking information about his personal life. Certain photographers were keeping an eye on his movements.

    I am glad he got to do it on his own terms , rather than some gutter journalist.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-brave-leo-varadkar-gives-it-to-us-straight-1.2070529


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    #795
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    seamus wrote: »
    We've a health service that's been a shambles since the 80s and an intractable HSE that has been incapable of reform in ten years. And people are lambasting Leo for being unable to single-handedly turn it around in six months. :rolleyes: Irish people are hilarious.

    The appointment to Health was a political move by Kenny to damage the reputation of someone he saw as a contender for the throne. Reilly being the deputy leader, Kenny wanted to make sure that he didn't finish his term in Government on a bum note.

    It's possible that this was a well-timed move on Varadkar's part to give him a front-and-centre seat in the run up to the SSM referendum and ride that wave of success into the next GE.

    Unfortunately i fear Kenny will use Leo's sexuality like a stick to beat all and any opposition to the SSM referendum, Leo will be pushed out as Kenny's poster boy for it which is wrong. The sooner Varadkar replaces Kenny as FG leader the better imo.


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    #796
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Of course it does. He is personally affected!
    As to whether Yes or No is the right way to vote "it affects me" is a pretty crappy platform to campaign on TBH.


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    #797
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    As to whether Yes or No is the right way to vote "it affects me" is a pretty crappy platform to campaign on TBH.

    Thats your opinion. I take politicians seriously when they are talking about something they are personally affected by and something they actually understand rather than something abstract.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #798
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    I still can't believe the guy is only 36 :mad:

    I'm bitter, I am! :D


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    #799
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    catallus wrote: »
    I still can't believe the guy is only 36 :mad:

    I'm bitter, I am! :D

    Oldest looking 36 year in Ireland for sure.


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    #800
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Thats your opinion. I take politicians seriously when they are talking about something they are personally affected by and something they actually understand rather than something abstract.
    "I'm campaigning for these tax cuts and pay raise as it makes me money."
    So you'll be backing politicians who say this then?


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    #801
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    "I'm campaigning for these tax cuts and pay raise as it makes me money."
    So you'll be backing politicians who say this then?

    :rolleyes:

    Ignoring the incredibly stretched comparison there, since when did taking somebody seriously mean "unquestioned acceptance and agreement".


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    #802
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    He been tweeting since it peaked. Now that's PR for you.
    We've had the trolley issue for years. Has any other minister communicated trolley counts on a daily basis? If he didn't acknowledge it on a daily basis I'm sure you'd be complaining that he's avoiding the issue. The reality is that the health minister doesn't deal with the day-to-day running of the health system. That's the responsibility of the HSE.


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    #803
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    floggg wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Ignoring the incredibly stretched comparison there, since when did taking somebody seriously mean "unquestioned acceptance and agreement".
    No mental gymnastics required at all, unless you think the amount of money an individual has isn't of personal interest to them? Odd.
    If there is no automatic movement to agree based on personal importance to the politician, then what difference does it make that this issue is of personal importance to Varadkar? You agree with him so you agree with him? And?


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    #804
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    We've had the trolley issue for years. Has any other minister communicated trolley counts on a daily basis? If he didn't acknowledge it on a daily basis I'm sure you'd be complaining that he's avoiding the issue. The reality is that the health minister doesn't deal with the day-to-day running of the health system. That's the responsibility of the HSE.
    You've missed the meaning utterly.
    Was he tweeting trolley counts as they were rising or just when they were falling? Do you accept the difference?


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    #805
    troched
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭troched


    The Cunning Linguist wrote: »
    Fair play to him.

    Just wondering why this post is not post of the day, when it has 321 thanks compared to the awarded potd with 71? I recall TCL's post having 140+ thanks yesterday so it's not a matter of M.T. Cranium getting more on the day.


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    #806
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    You've missed the meaning utterly.
    Was he tweeting trolley counts as they were rising or just when they were falling? Do you accept the difference?
    I understood your point completely, actually.
    Why would he tweet about trolley counts when they were rising? First of all, it's Winter which always has much higher ED admissions relative to the rest of the year so a rising figure isn't abnormal. €25 million was also provided to the HSE just before Christmas to deal with the trolley count, so he had further reason not to believe this Christmas would be any worse than previous years. When it became abnormal and peaked above previous records, he then addressed the issue publicly and has since been communicating on a daily basis how the issue is being resolved. What else do you think he should have done?

    Nevermind the fact that variations in the number of people on trolleys isn't necessarily his remit. The HSE runs the health system, he sets the budget and policy. He allocated €25 million extra to deal with this specific issue. Anything beyond that, it is up to the HSE to allocate those resources appropriately to reduce trolley numbers.


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    #807
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    troched wrote: »
    Just wondering why this post is not post of the day, when it has 321 thanks compared to the awarded potd with 71? I recall TCL's post having 140+ thanks yesterday so it's not a matter of M.T. Cranium getting more on the day.

    AH posts are not included in POTD

    http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057364553/1


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    #808
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,291 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I don't want to see any couples "wearing" the face of one another in public in the middle of the day. It's disgusting.

    Don't you give teenage girls demonstrations on tampons?


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    #809
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    No mental gymnastics required at all, unless you think the amount of money an individual has isn't of personal interest to them? Odd.
    If there is no automatic movement to agree based on personal importance to the politician, then what difference does it make that this issue is of personal importance to Varadkar? You agree with him so you agree with him? And?

    Tax rate affect everybody, so he won't have any insight on the issue that the rest of us won't (in fact, the less you earn the more likely you are to appreciate the effects of any changes).

    And taking somebody more seriously means you are more likely to give them your attention. The still need to persuade you once they have it.

    Your really try to twist a statement out of all recognition here.


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    #810
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    I understood your point completely, actually.
    Why would he tweet about trolley counts when they were rising? First of all, it's Winter which always has much higher ED admissions relative to the rest of the year so a rising figure isn't abnormal. €25 million was also provided to the HSE just before Christmas to deal with the trolley count, so he had further reason not to believe this Christmas would be any worse than previous years. When it became abnormal and peaked above previous records, he then addressed the issue publicly and has since been communicating on a daily basis how the issue is being resolved. What else do you think he should have done?
    The point is we have no idea if he would be reporting trolley numbers unless they were falling. That looks like PR. As much as SF Tweeting rising trolley numbers is PR for them.
    Anita Blow wrote: »
    Nevermind the fact that variations in the number of people on trolleys isn't necessarily his remit. The HSE runs the health system, he sets the budget and policy. He allocated €25 million extra to deal with this specific issue. Anything beyond that, it is up to the HSE to allocate those resources appropriately to reduce trolley numbers.
    Oh please! Of course getting patients off trolleys and into beds is the responsibility of the Minister for Health. Or does he just forward the cheque he's given by Enda and says good luck with that lads, do your best?


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    #811
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    floggg wrote: »
    Tax rate affect everybody
    Simply not true if you're on the dole. Why does Varadkar himself demand more attention than the issue itself? Why don't you have a go at thinking about the issue presented instead of the man behind it? More cult of personality garbage.
    BTW, another thing you don't seem to know: it's quite easy to change taxes, e.g. cut offs and marginal rates, without making a blind bit of difference to the poorest workers.


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