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Should France be allowed to ban the Burka?

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  • 08-01-2015 11:33pm
    #1
    Warper
    Registered Users Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭


    Should they since they are all about freedom of expression?


«1345

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    #2
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Warper wrote: »
    Should they since they are all about freedom of expression?

    They can legislate for what they want.
    France is not a 'Muslim country. And
    such 'freedom of expression' (sic) contradicts basic French principles of equality, fraternity and liberty and notably are a serious security issue in public where they allow individuals to hide their identies. And don't even try and tell me all Muslim women wish to or have any choice in wearing the burka. Even in France Muslim women have had acid thrown on them by fellow Muslims for dressing 'immodestly' ...


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    #3
    Warper
    Registered Users Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭Warper


    gozunda wrote: »
    They can legislate for what they want.
    France is not a 'Muslim country. And
    such 'freedom of expression' and contradicts basic French principles of equality, fraternity and liberty and notably are a serious security issue in public where they allow individuals to hide their identies. And don't even try and tell me all Muslim women wish to or have any choice in wearing the burka. Even in France Muslim women have had acid thrown on them by fellow Muslims for dressing 'immodestly' ...

    That is backed up by what? The numerous incidents of burka wearing people committing evil crimes?


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    #4
    Señor Fancy Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,628 ✭✭✭Señor Fancy Pants


    No frickin' way! How else can ya boil enough water for 500 cups of tae?! Disgraceful.


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    #5
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,448 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Yes each country should be able to legislate whatever they want, some countries want people to not drink, have women walk behind men like dogs, not let women drive cars etc etc, if you don't like the legislation don't live there.


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    #6
    Intensive Care Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭Intensive Care Bear


    Lets give women the freedom to wear what they want by telling them they can't wear a certain thing


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    #7
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Warper wrote: »
    That is backed up by what? The numerous incidents of burka wearing people committing evil crimes?

    Even in some Muslim countries - women are obliged to remove head coverings for security purposes.

    But yes indeed

    http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/crime/2014/11/19/men_dressed_in_burkas_steal_500000_in_jewelry.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2008641/Hunt-burka-raider-Man-dressed-Muslim-woman-caught-CCTV-robbing-travel-agencies.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2601721/Smash-DRAG-Gang-men-dressed-burkas-pretended-rich-Muslim-women-steal-designer-watches-worth-1-4million-Selfridges.html

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/phyllis-chesler/terrorists-in-drag-bombs-beneath-the-burqa/

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8694814/Burka-clad-female-suicide-bomber-detonates-in-Pakistan.html

    There are many many more examples

    Your point is what exactly? That Muslims terrorists are validated in shooting others because France won't enable them to impose restrictions on half the Muslim population?


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    #8
    Gringo180
    Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Yes each country should be able to legislate whatever they want, some countries want people to not drink, have women walk behind men like dogs, not let women drive cars etc etc, if you don't like the legislation don't live there.

    Mad why the West want rid of the North Korean leader so isnt it.


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    #9
    AboutaWeekAgo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭AboutaWeekAgo


    Ban the bra first I say!


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    #10
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    Truffle Pig wrote: »
    No frickin' way! How else can ya boil enough water for 500 cups of tae?! Disgraceful.

    The local Pioneer annual dinner dance would be chaos :(


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    #11
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    1210m5g wrote: »
    Lets give women the freedom to wear what they want by telling them they can't wear a certain thing

    Many Muslim woman don't have that 'choice'.


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    #12
    Lau2976
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    The right to safety outweighs the right to wear what you want.


    People can call it islamphobic, or racist all they want but being around someone covered completely head to toe, other then their eyes, is a frightening situation. Really anybody could be in a burka. Dangerous or otherwise

    We ban hoods and helmets in places. Anything that does not reveal your face should not be allowed.


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    #13
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    gozunda wrote: »
    Many Muslim woman don't have that 'choice'.

    Should those who choose to wear one be banned from doing so?


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    #14
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,500 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    A custom which oppresses women? Should have been banned ages ago.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #15
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    France can do what it likes. I'm not even sure why it is banned there.


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    #16
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    We all should. When in Rome etc. I have covered up in Muslim /Buddhist countries as a mark of respect and in some cases law. I whole heartedly would support the banning of the Burqa here.


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    #17
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    RayM wrote: »
    Should those who choose to wear one be banned from doing so?

    France can choose to legislate in order that no women can be forced to do so. France is not a Muslim country. Women visiting many middle eastern countries are banned from wearing bikinis / shorts / tee shirts I don't see to many protesting about that here ...


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    #18
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    gozunda wrote: »
    France can choose to legislate in order that no women can be forced to do so. France is not a Muslim country. Women visiting many middle eastern countries are banned from wearing bikinis / shorts / tee shirts I don't see to many protesting about that here ...

    So western countries should act a bit more like Middle Eastern countries then, when deciding what people can and cannot wear? I'm not sure I like that, to be honest...


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    #19
    Lau2976
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    RayM wrote: »
    So western countries should act a bit more like Middle Eastern countries then, when deciding what people can and cannot wear? I'm not sure I like that, to be honest...

    But it isn't a case if controlling for any other reason then safety.


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    #20
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Lau2976 wrote: »
    But it isn't a case if controlling for any

    other reason then safety.


    ^^^ this and

    And importantly the reason behind the French legislation comes not from some archaic interpretation of an ancient religous text but rational national legislation


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    #21
    Intensive Care Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭Intensive Care Bear


    I actually own a Burka, i bought one last year for a fancy dress party, i enjoyed wearing it so much i have worn it a few times in the last year.


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    #22
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    1210m5g wrote: »
    I actually own a Burka, i bought one last year for a fancy dress party, i enjoyed wearing it so much i have worn it a few times in the last year.

    Doing what exactly?


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    #23
    Letree
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    Its their decision.


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    #24
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    1210m5g wrote: »
    I actually own a Burka, i bought one last year for a fancy dress party, i enjoyed wearing it so much i have worn it a few times in the last year.

    Shoplifting? I've seen it happen more than once. No security guard would do anything about it for fear of being accused of racism


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    #25
    Tin Foil Hat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Tin Foil Hat


    Warper wrote: »
    Should they since they are all about freedom of expression?

    They absolutely should not ban them. However, there is absolutely no reason why those who chose to wear them should not have to show their faces where everybody else has to - in banks or airports, for example.
    Freedom of religion should only entitle you to equal treatment. Not exceptional treatment. You wanna pass through an airport in a bin bag? Tough sh!t sister. Take it off, or find another way.


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    #26
    jimboblep
    Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭jimboblep


    The ban is about all face covering in a public and was not specifically aimed at muslims.
    I know others will come in now and say it was, but the european court of human rights doesnt agree with them.
    This has been done before on another thread and yes France absolutely has the right to legislate how it sees fit in accordance with EU law


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    #27
    BBJBIG
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭BBJBIG


    They look loike Bin bags - I'm burnin me Y-fronts in protest .... ;)


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    #28
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    RayM wrote: »
    So western countries should act a bit more like Middle Eastern countries then, when deciding what people can and cannot wear? I'm not sure I like that, to be honest...

    As I said Women visiting many middle eastern countries are banned from wearing bikinis / shorts / tee shirts I don't see to many protesting about that here.

    Muslim in other countries should not have any expectation that they have special exemptions from the laws and customs of those counries.

    A very real case of double standards.


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    #29
    Intensive Care Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭Intensive Care Bear


    gozunda wrote: »
    Doing what exactly?

    I usually get it out when i'm smashed and want to do the shop run in disguise.


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    #30
    Tin Foil Hat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭Tin Foil Hat


    gozunda wrote: »
    As I said Women visiting many middle eastern countries are banned from wearing bikinis / shorts / tee shirts I don't see to many protesting about that here.

    Muslim in other countries should not have any expectation that they have special exemptions from the laws and customs of those counries.

    A very real case of double standards.

    I don't think you'll find too many people who won't agree that those countries are backward, oppressive sh1teholes. It's a terrible argument, in fairness.


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    #31
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    Oui.


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