Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

brocbrocach

rubadub wrote: »

Pedestrians are by far the worst road users for breaking laws -by a huge margin. Yet it would be very rare to hear someone comment "the continuing high level of rule breaking by pedestrians contributes to pedestrians in general having a bad rep."

I have seen some people here concerned about bad cyclists giving themselves a "bad name", I don't get this, to me it is just humans getting a bad rep. I have never once saw a pedestrian doing something crazy and thought to myself "oh no, look at that prick giving us a bad name".

Agree with all that.

CramCycle

CramCycle wrote: »

You'd have to be completely unobservant to think that cyclists are far higher in terms of law breaking, number wise or percentage wise.

Sit at any junction or any road, count how many cyclists break the rules and how many motorists break the rules. Many motorists on the N11 manage to break multiples at the same time.

I think about 100% of motorists (including me) break the law at times.

How many can truly say they have never done 51 in a 50kph zone? Or gone through an amber when they can stop?

In fact it is my experience that the very same motorist who will curse 'cyclists' for red light jumping will also curse the conscientious motorist in front of them who comes to a stop as the light turns amber and stops them running through it.

Tony EH

Every user of the road breaks the rules. There are no paragons of law abidance in any bracket.

hardCopy

Deleted User wrote: »

I think about 100% of motorists (including me) break the law at times.

How many can truly say they have never done 51 in a 50kph zone? Or gone through an amber when they can stop?

In fact it is my experience that the very same motorist who will curse 'cyclists' for red light jumping will also curse the conscientious motorist in front of them who comes to a stop as the light turns amber and stops them running through it.

I think even the qualifier of "at times" gives people too much credit. The majority of drivers break the law every single time they get in their car. If they don't break a light they gamble on amber, or they speed, or they don't give way on a roundabout, or they don't signal. All crimes that are far more likely to kill someone than any cyclist breaking a red.

You could probably count on one hand the number of cars that make it down the quays without going over 30kph.

The only reason more cyclists are seen breaking red lights is because there is a limit to how many cars can fit on the other side of the light or in the yellow box.

By the way I love that new phrase "near miss collision". Was it coined by the RSA?

Carawaystick

brocbrocach wrote: »

Wow, easy horses.
I'd say sitting at a junction (where it's not a danger to themselves) that 80% of cyclists break the red light. I'd say at most 50% are lit up to a reasonable level when it gets dark.

You don't have to be lit up to a reasonable level at night, only a legal level. A while ago LED lights were reasonable but illegal

rubadub

hardCopy wrote: »

By the way I love that new phrase "near miss collision".

I hear the pedestrian involved was almost pregnant, and due to be elderly at some stage.

kazamo

Carawaystick wrote: »

You don't have to be lit up to a reasonable level at night, only a legal level. A while ago LED lights were reasonable but illegal

And if not lit up at all, there is always the footpath

CramCycle

kazamo wrote: »

And if not lit up at all, there is always the footpath

MOD VOICE: as many here will know, cycling on the footpath is illegal. Lets not be seen to encourage it or condone it because we don't. If you don't have lights and its dark, then walk. Lets leave the footpad cycling discussion to another time or thread

brocbrocach

Carawaystick wrote: »

You don't have to be lit up to a reasonable level at night, only a legal level. A while ago LED lights were reasonable but illegal

Yeah very true - legal was what I meant, and you're right they don't often don't mean the same thing.

lgk

brocbrocach wrote: »

I agree car drivers break a multitude of laws reasonably regularly but not to the same extent (a) because it's more dangerous (b) they get the ROR beat into them for licence (c) Guards are far more likely to react to them.

Yet 86% of motorists break the 30km/h limits, and these are in areas of most risk both from causing harm to others, and getting caught!

Lumen

lgk wrote: »

Yet 86% of motorists break the 30km/h limits, and these are in areas of most risk both from causing harm to others, and getting caught!

Oh, those laws. Ah, sure what's the harm?! Modern cars are capable of being driven at well over 200kph in complete safety, nothing can possibly go wrong at such a ridiculously low speed as 30kph that isn't the fault of someone else.

30kph limits are nanny state nonsense mostly introduced to protect pedestrians who don't look where they're going. They should be more careful. Survival of the fittest! Science etc!

:pac:

RainyDay

brocbrocach wrote: »

Wow, easy horses.
I'd say sitting at a junction (where it's not a danger to themselves) that 80% of cyclists break the red light. I'd say at most 50% are lit up to a reasonable level when it gets dark.
I agree car drivers break a multitude of laws reasonably regularly but not to the same extent (a) because it's more dangerous (b) they get the ROR beat into them for licence (c) Guards are far more likely to react to them.

You do know that most of the cyclists you see breaking lights are drivers too, who had the ROR bet into them for their licence? Everyone knows that you shouldn't break lights. You don't need the ROR at all to know that, and many cyclists ignore it.

Just like just about EVERY driver on the road breaks the speed limit on every journey.

HivemindXX

Lumen wrote: »

Oh, those laws. Ah, sure what's the harm?

This is it exactly. Virtually no motorist sees anything wrong with going through an amber light when they could easily stop in perfect safety.

I'd say percentage-wise the levels of cyclists going through reds is more or less matched by motorists who think it's fine to pull up on the footpath straddling a double yellow line to "run in" to the shop or who will hold their phone while driving or who will enter the solid line bike lane to pass a right turning car in front of them or who will enter the junction even though the exit isn't clear.

But see, the laws motorists break are no big deal (speeding on the motorway) or the laws are stupid and nobody expects anyone to obey them(stopping on amber) but when a cyclist does something a motorist won't or can't it's burning torches and pitchforks time.

I was glad to see the FPNs, my view is that everyone should obey the rules of the road. The hypocrisy of bitching about cyclists while giving a free pass to motorists irks me though.

brocbrocach

HivemindXX wrote: »

This is it exactly. Virtually no motorist sees anything wrong with going through an amber light when they could easily stop in perfect safety.

I'd say percentage-wise the levels of cyclists going through reds is more or less matched by motorists who think it's fine to pull up on the footpath straddling a double yellow line to "run in" to the shop or who will hold their phone while driving or who will enter the solid line bike lane to pass a right turning car in front of them or who will enter the junction even though the exit isn't clear.

But see, the laws motorists break are no big deal (speeding on the motorway) or the laws are stupid and nobody expects anyone to obey them(stopping on amber) but when a cyclist does something a motorist won't or can't it's burning torches and pitchforks time.

I was glad to see the FPNs, my view is that everyone should obey the rules of the road. The hypocrisy of bitching about cyclists while giving a free pass to motorists irks me though.

I'd say the degree of floutiness is important

Qualitymark

Drunk man who hit three cyclists and ran is given community service

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/no-jail-for-ireland-star-darren-gibson-after-admitting-drink-drive-charge-693767.html

Beasty

Qualitymark wrote: »

Drunk man who hit three cyclists and ran is given community service

Separate thread here

Jawgap

Cyclists receiving fines at rate of about 100 a month

Penalties for cyclists who break red lights and commit a range of other offences are being handed out at a rate of about 100 a month since introduced at in July.

According to the latest Garda figures, 244 cyclists across the State were stopped by gardaí and given fixed-charge penalty notices – also known as fines – of €40 per incident, between mid-July and September 30th this year.

A total of seven cycling offences are covered by the new fines regime, which was approved by Minister for Transport Paschal Donohoe on July 2nd this year and which came into effect before the end of that month.

I expect there'll be another surge this month when the clocks go back and the Guards run their operation 'light up' initiative.

100 per month isn't exactly a lot?

traprunner

Jawgap wrote: »

Cyclists receiving fines at rate of about 100 a month



I expect there'll be another surge this month when the clocks go back and the Guards run their operation 'light up' initiative.

100 per month isn't exactly a lot?

It will just mean that a new range of offences will be added. A bit like the way they keep adding to penalty points and associated fines.

tomasrojo

Jawgap wrote: »

100 per month isn't exactly a lot?

Slightly fewer than the FCNs they handed out in a year to motorists parking in mandatory cycle facilities (144), so it's all relative.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/19/gardai-planning-blitz-to-tackle-bicycle-offences-from-august-1/

Kaisr Sose

tomasrojo wrote: »

Slightly fewer than the FCNs they handed out in a year to motorists parking in mandatory cycle facilities (144), so it's all relative.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/19/gardai-planning-blitz-to-tackle-bicycle-offences-from-august-1/

It's shocking how poorly policed parking in cycle lanes is. This morning a motorist, travelling in the opposite direction to me, crossed the centre line and entered and then drove against the flow of traffic before parking in the cycle lane (and clearway) thus blocking it for me and all cyclists following along behind.

Up in Ballyboden (heading for Cruagh) there is a car parked on a cycle lane for the past few years. No insurance, tax or NCT. I would guess the Guards pass daily and do nothing about it!

Greenmachine

244 cyclist caught in 2 months is a paltry sum to be honest. You could catch that many in a day. In an average day in the city, I would still expect to see half a dozen cyclist negotiating their way through pedestrian streets like Henry street. Can't say I am that surprised at the level of enforcement. The number of drivers that have cell phones in their hands right in front of garda is baffling, without any intervention.

Macy0161

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Up in Ballyboden (heading for Cruagh) there is a car parked on a cycle lane for the past few years. No insurance, tax or NCT. I would guess the Guards pass daily and do nothing about it!

On the N11, the Garda Gatso has been known to park in a grade separated cycle lane. I've seen them numerous times pulling people for being in the bus lane, and parking them up on the grade separated cycle lane to issue the ticket.

Greenmachine wrote:

244 cyclist caught in 2 months is a paltry sum to be honest. You could catch that many in a day. In an average day in the city, I would still expect to see half a dozen cyclist negotiating their way through pedestrian streets like Henry street. Can't say I am that surprised at the level of enforcement. The number of drivers that have cell phones in their hands right in front of garda is baffling, without any intervention.

I'd say it's pretty much in line with every other none speeding offence is it? Was in the car this morning, witnessed cars red light jumping, parking in mandatory cycle lanes, driving in bus lanes, blocking yellow boxes, crossing hatch markings, on the phone. Enforcement is pretty pathetic on our roads in general.

Qualitymark

Macy0161 wrote: »

I'd say it's pretty much in line with every other none speeding offence is it? Was in the car this morning, witnessed cars red light jumping, parking in mandatory cycle lanes, driving in bus lanes, blocking yellow boxes, crossing hatch markings, on the phone. Enforcement is pretty pathetic on our roads in general.

Someone told me back in the 1990s or so that in Germany cameras were used to automatically issue small but irritating fines for this kind of offence, and the nagging made people very compliant.

In Ireland, we always set the fines way too high, and don't enforce them.

The Finns have the right idea: they set fines according to income.

laraghrider

Qualitymark wrote: »

Someone told me back in the 1990s or so that in Germany cameras were used to automatically issue small but irritating fines for this kind of offence, and the nagging made people very compliant.

I heard about that back when I was living in Frankfurt. Germany though takes road safety extremely seriously. I got a fine for jwalking in Heidleberg at 23:30, not a car in sight, I was at the pedestrian lights but though feck it nothing coming I'll cross. Didn't even see the officer on the other side of the road. I've also seen people pulled in on the autobahn for driving too slowly.

tomasrojo

laraghrider wrote: »

Germany though takes road safety extremely seriously.

A German friend told me that they take red light breaking very seriously indeed.

They do generally think that rules should be followed, in a way that we definitely don't.

Macy0161

Kept catching and passing (with me in the cycle lanes) a Stilo that went into the bus lane at Foxrock. I last passed it at Fosters Avenue lights. But it's only cyclists that don't stick to the law, or don't get enforced...

onmebike

It's a small number, but I'd say that one of the aims of the new fines was to raise awareness of the possibility of the fine. I'd hope that after a few months of the stats being published, less people will be inclined to take a risk.
If the likes of Operation Freeflow kicks in later in the year, then there will be more Garda visibility at junctions, so that might help alter some behaviour too.

Macy0161

onmebike wrote: »

It's a small number, but I'd say that one of the aims of the new fines was to raise awareness of the possibility of the fine. I'd hope that after a few months of the stats being published, less people will be inclined to take a risk.

I think it's an overstated problem in my experience, but as with the introduction and the extension of offences for motoring penalty points, without enforcement the perceived risk goes and the behaviour changes back.

RainyDay

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Up in Ballyboden (heading for Cruagh) there is a car parked on a cycle lane for the past few years. No insurance, tax or NCT. I would guess the Guards pass daily and do nothing about it!

Have you considered reporting it yourself?

Kaisr Sose

RainyDay wrote: »

Have you considered reporting it yourself?

I did — but I wonder how many other cyclists left it for someone else to report. Granted many probably don't care but the RTA is clear on parking on cycle lanes and the Garda don't seem to care about enforcing the act.