And it begins... (bigot brigade anti-SSM leaflets) - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post ###

Peist2007

mrsbyrne wrote: »

But while you are speaking in a reasonable rational considerate thoughtful manner about this subject, and you have implored what "yes" proponents on this thread there are to be calm and civil to opponnets on the subject is SSM, im afraid your being ignored. Mostly because 2 or 3 are only using the leaflet as yet another opportunity to scoff and mock the beliefs of others, and in such a repetitive "broken record" manner too.

So, just so i have this right - the issue here is not the hate-filled bile being put through people's doors but in fact the bedside manner of those who call it out for what it is? Are you listening to yourself?

mrsbyrne

Peist2007 wrote: »

You have seen very indirect defences of it though and some not so subtle attempts at deflection. Not even a fool could try to defend "Sounds of Sodomy".

I've read the entire thread and apart from posts from a poster wh has bbeen banned for the hundredth time, I have not seen one post even indirectly or subtly defend the leaflet.

Daith

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I've read the entire thread and apart from posts from a poster wh has bbeen banned for the hundredth time, I have not seen one post even indirectly or subtly defend the leaflet.

Yet it probably is some persons deeply held and sincere belief. So by your reason no one should be making fun of it?

mrsbyrne

Peist2007 wrote: »

So, just so i have this right - the issue here is not the hate-filled bile being put through people's doors but in fact the bedside manner of those who call it out for what it is? Are you listening to yourself?

No you havnt got it right. You've got it all wrong. I have no idea why.

mrsbyrne

Daith wrote: »

Yet it probably is some persons deeply held and sincere belief. So by your reason no one should be making fun of it?

I have

Daith

Daith wrote: »

Yet it probably is some persons deeply held and sincere belief. So by your reason no one should be making fun of it?

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I have

Why? You give out for the Yes side for mocking other peoples beliefs but mocking the leaflet (provided it's their religious belief) is the same thing

mrsbyrne

Daith wrote: »

Yet it probably is some persons deeply held and sincere belief. So by your reason no one should be making fun of it?

Sorry, what is someone's deeply held belief? Where are yii going wwith this? Where are the posts that display either indirect or subtle ssupport for the lleaflet? There are none.

Daith

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Sorry, what is someone's deeply held belief? Where are yii going wwith this? Where are the posts that display either indirect or subtle ssupport for the lleaflet? There are none.

To break it down

The leaflet probably represents someones belief (unless it's a piss take).

You give out to the Yes side for mocking beliefs.

Therefore you should be giving out to anyone for mocking the leaflet and you shouldn't be doing it yourself.

eviltwin

If that leaflet had been produced without the religious references then I don't think anyone would be defending the views of its creators. But once you add a religious reference all of a sudden it has to be treated with respect. Why should a point of view be respected? I can respect someone who is anti SSM if they make their point in a mature and respectful way. Tugging at people heartstrings by using children as a kind of emotional blackmail is a low dig and I don't respect that.

mrsbyrne

Daith wrote: »

Why? You give out for the Yes side for mocking other peoples beliefs but mocking the leaflet (provided it's their religious belief) is the same thing

You've lost me now.

Daith

mrsbyrne wrote: »

You've lost me now.

Yeah I know.

mrsbyrne

eviltwin wrote: »

If that leaflet had been produced without the religious references then I don't think anyone would be defending the views of its creators. But once you add a religious reference all of a sudden it has to be treated with respect. Why should a point of view be respected? I can respect someone who is anti SSM if they make their point in a mature and respectful way. Tugging at people heartstrings by using children as a kind of emotional blackmail is a low dig and I don't respect that.

Nobody is treating the lleaflet with respect. The leaflet is a piece of ****. The thread is littered with disrespectful scornful references to people beliefs and people of belief. A ****ty leaflet does not justify a nasty free for all applied without any discernment.

OldNotWIse

I think people who concern themselves with what I do with my OH in the privacy of our own bedroom are creepy f.ucking weirdos.

Daith

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Nobody is treating the lleaflet with respect. The leaflet is a piece of ****. The thread is littered with disrespectful scornful references to people beliefs and people of belief. A ****ty leaflet does not justify a nasty free for all applied without any discernment.

Do you not get that the leaflet represents someone's belief so by calling it a piece of **** you are doing the same thing you are giving out about!

mrsbyrne

Daith wrote: »

To break it down

The leaflet probably represents someones belief (unless it's a piss take).

You give out to the Yes side for mocking beliefs.

Therefore you should be giving out to anyone for mocking the leaflet and you shouldn't be doing it yourself.

No, you've reached a conclusion there but missed at least 3 steps.

eviltwin

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Nobody is treating the lleaflet with respect. The leaflet is a piece of ****. The thread is littered with disrespectful scornful references to people beliefs and people of belief. A ****ty leaflet does not justify a nasty free for all applied without any discernment.

Yes, people's beliefs, not the people themselves. If someone beliefs a gay person having sex with their partner is bad and dangerous to children just because their god tells them I will not respect that belief. I can still respect the person. I have no problem at all with people of faith. I just don't like the opinions their churches have of gay people.

Daith

mrsbyrne wrote: »

No, you've reached a conclusion there but missed at least 3 steps.

Having any belief or opinion does not make you immune from being mocked or scorned.

Peist2007

mrsbyrne wrote: »

No you havnt got it right. You've got it all wrong. I have no idea why.

I guess i am simple

smash

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Nobody is treating the lleaflet with respect. The leaflet is a piece of ****. The thread is littered with disrespectful scornful references to people beliefs and people of belief.

No, the thread is littered with disrespectful scornful references to people who subscribe to the same train of thought as those who printed the leaflet.

Peist2007

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I've read the entire thread and apart from posts from a poster wh has bbeen banned for the hundredth time, I have not seen one post even indirectly or subtly defend the leaflet.

I think that calling those who call it out for what it is (ie backwards bigotted tosh) as being extremists is indirectly defending it.

As others have pointed out, the most difficult aspect to this referendum for the yes side is not pulling their hair out and dropping to the no side's level. We are all actually about to start debating in Ireland on whether gay people should have equal rights. It is completely laughable and, as another poster said, shouldnt even be a referendum. This is a civil matter and a Bill should be passed which reflects the utter common sense involved. That the yes side, in order to properly ensure its victory, has to give creedance and listening time to bigots is the most difficult aspect to this whole thing for the yes side.

Unless someone can tell me a reason to vote no that is not prejudicial or bigotted? Anyone?

Brian Shanahan

Manach wrote: »

It begins, a masterclass on ad hominem by the PC brigade whose toleration for anything expect for those who disagree with progressive precepts.

Hey, just because you like bigotry and hatred, doesn't mean we have to sit quitely while you try to inflict it on us.

LorMal

Peist2007 wrote: »

I think that calling those who call it out for what it is (ie backwards bigotted tosh) as being extremists is indirectly defending it.

As others have pointed out, the most difficult aspect to this referendum for the yes side is not pulling their hair out and dropping to the no side's level. We are all actually about to start debating in Ireland on whether gay people should have equal rights. It is completely laughable and, as another poster said, shouldnt even be a referendum. This is a civil matter and a Bill should be passed which reflects the utter common sense involved. That the yes side, in order to properly ensure its victory, has to give creedance and listening time to bigots is the most difficult aspect to this whole thing for the yes side.

Unless someone can tell me a reason to vote no that is not prejudicial or bigotted? Anyone?

I just cannot understand your argument here. No one is defending the leaflet. No one is condemning anyone for calling it bigoted and nasty tosh.
What some of us do not like is the complete dismissal of any person (and their belief systems) who does not agree with your position on this issue. Some of the language used is also nasty and divisive and I suggest counterproductive.

Billy86

LorMal wrote: »

I just cannot understand your argument here. No one is defending the leaflet. No one is condemning anyone for calling it bigoted and nasty tosh.
What some of us do not like is the complete dismissal of any person (and their belief systems) who does not agree with your position on this issue. Some of the language used is also nasty and divisive and I suggest counterproductive.

The problem here is that over the course of these threads, there has yet to be one good reason give as to why this should pass; not a single one.

Baggy Trousers

Billy86 wrote: »

The problem here is that over the course of these threads, there has yet to be one good reason give as to why this should pass; not a single one.

Because it's the right thing to do.

hotmail.com

mrsbyrne wrote: »

But while you are speaking in a reasonable rational considerate thoughtful manner about this subject, and you have implored what "yes" proponents on this thread there are to be calm and civil to opponnets on the subject is SSM, im afraid your being ignored. Mostly because 2 or 3 are only using the leaflet as yet another opportunity to scoff and mock the beliefs of others, and in such a repetitive "broken record" manner too.

One of the maddest posts on this thread was from you about the tampon demonstration.

Baggy Trousers

hotmail.com wrote: »

One of the maddest posts on this thread was from you about the tampon demonstration.

Ah stop, not tampons again

JaseBelleVie

Slightly off-topic, but Stephen Fry has announced that he is going to marry his boyfriend Elliott Spencer. Delighted for him!

Hopefully, Ireland will follow the likes of the UK, Holland, Spain, etc. and Civil Marriage will soon be a reality.

Slicemeister

Billy86 wrote: »

The problem here is that over the course of these threads, there has yet to be one good reason give as to why this should pass; not a single one.

Which in turn would be objectively and maturely debated, no one being ridiculed for their religious beliefs.

Deenie123

Billy86 wrote: »

The problem here is that over the course of these threads, there has yet to be one good reason give as to why this should pass; not a single one.

I can't believe that of all genres, hip-hop answers succinctly and accurately:

It's the same hate that's caused wars from religion
Gender to skin color
Complexion of your pigment
The same fight that lead people to walk-outs and sit-ins
Human rights for everybody
There is no difference

Read more: Macklemore & Ryan Lewis - Same Love Lyrics | MetroLyrics

david75

We continually allow posters to drag it into the religious debate. We all know it's not about that, we know the No campaign will also make it about that(and the endless relentless 'children' argument). Hard not to lose th head in the face of such twisted molestation of logic.