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Legal aid, Going to Lanzerote

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    #62
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Beano wrote: »
    he is not a criminal until he is found guilty. even if he is found guilty he will not necessarily be a convict. he is only a convict if he is given jail time.

    Where are you getting your definitions from? A criminal is a person who has committed a crime. If the guy committed a crime he is a criminal wether he has been convicted or not. Wether you refer to him as a criminal is completely up to your own burden of proof requirement. Being caught with drugs and in a stolen car are fairly cut and dry cases
    kneemos wrote: »
    We don't know if he committed a crime so not a criminal.

    As I said, it's a matter of opinion whether you call him a criminal or not.
    anncoates wrote: »
    He qualifies for FLA. The judge himself said he couldn't revoke it so if he can go on a cheapo holiday it's not a consequence.

    Whether he's a nice person or a criminal isn't the issue.

    People just want to see sackcloth and ashes for anybody with any kind of state assistance, unless of course it's ones that benefit them such as mortgage interest relief, mostly free college and other no less tax-funded sweeteners.

    My point was that you can get a district court defence for the cost of a holiday.


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    #63
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Where are you getting your definitions from? A criminal is a person who has committed a crime. If the guy committed a crime he is a criminal wether he has been convicted or not. Wether you refer to him as a criminal is completely up to your own burden of proof requirement. Being caught with drugs and in a stolen car are fairly cut and dry cases

    ...


    whether he is a criminal or not is entirely up to the courts burden of proof and nothing else. your opinion that he is already guilty does not make him a criminal.


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    #64
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    hfallada wrote: »
    I think the best example of a judge cracking down on FLA. Was when the Gardai had a string operation pretending to be hookers. They caught and were charging like 22 men. Something like 9 applied for FLA. But the judge denied it to all of them because if you can buy for sex, then you can pay for legal aid.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv62bDzeWKQ


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    #65
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,411 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »


    As I said, it's a matter of opinion whether you call him a criminal or not.



    Call him what you like,but he isn't a criminal.


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    #66
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    kneemos wrote: »

    As I said, it's a matter of opinion whether you call him a criminal or not.



    Call him what you like,but he isn't a criminal.

    I disagree.


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    #67
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I disagree.

    Guilty till proven innocent ?


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    #68
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    For the record, how do the courts work out who is and is not entitled to FLA?


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    #69
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I disagree.

    you are entitled to your own opinion of the man. what you are not entitled to is your own facts. and it is a fact that he is not currently a criminal based on the facts available to us


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    #70
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    kippy wrote: »
    For the record, how do the courts work out who is and is not entitled to FLA?

    means test


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    #71
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Guilty till proven innocent ?
    Beano wrote: »
    you are entitled to your own opinion of the man. what you are not entitled to is your own facts. and it is a fact that he is not currently a criminal based on the facts available to us

    No, he is not a convicted criminal. You can be a criminal with no convictions to your name. It just makes you a talented criminal.


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    #72
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    No, he is not a convicted criminal. You can be a criminal with no convictions to your name. It just makes you a talented criminal.

    just admit you're wrong and move on


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    #73
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Beano wrote: »
    means test

    Based on what?


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    #74
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,435 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    kippy wrote: »
    Based on what?

    Means usually.


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    #75
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,443 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Means usually.

    No way.
    What means are taken into account?
    Money in the bank/assets......
    Income....
    Expenditure......
    Previous criminal record.......


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    #76
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    kippy wrote: »
    No way.
    What means are taken into account?
    Money in the bank/assets......
    Income....
    Expenditure......
    Previous criminal record.......

    i cant find anything which gives details. all i can find is

    http://www.phelimoneill.ie/home/criminal_legal_aid
    An applicant for legal aid must establish to the satisfaction of the court that his/her means are insufficient to enable him/her to pay for legal aid him/herself. This is purely a discretionary matter for each court and is not governed by any financial eligibility guidelines. The court must also be satisfied that by reason of the 'gravity of the charge' or 'exceptional circumstances' it is essential in the interests of justice that the applicant should have legal aid. However, where the charge is one of murder or where an appeal is one from the Court of Criminal Appeal to the Supreme Court, free legal aid is granted merely on the grounds of insufficient means.

    An applicant for free legal aid may be required by the court to complete a statement of means. It is an offence for an applicant to knowingly make a false statement or conceal a material fact for the purpose of obtaining legal aid. Such an offence carries a penalty of a fine or imprisonment or both.


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    #77
    The_Captain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,376 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    kippy wrote: »
    No way.
    What means are taken into account?
    Money in the bank/assets......
    Income....
    Expenditure......
    Previous criminal record.......


    All forms of income through work, benefits, renting etc.
    Documented expediture, as in rent/utilities


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    #78
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Where are you getting your definitions from? A criminal is a person who has committed a crime. If the guy committed a crime he is a criminal wether he has been convicted or not. .

    You've an interesting take on the legal system.

    It's like calling every freshman student a graduate by dint of being in university.


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    #79
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    anncoates wrote: »
    You've an interesting take on the legal system.

    It's like calling every freshman student a graduate by dint of being in university.

    No it isn't. The legal system doesn't call people criminals, society does. The word is used to describe someone who has committed a crime, regardless of conviction status. The fact that you don't use the word unless the person has a conviction is irrelevant to me. I'll use it if I think they have committed a crime on balance of probability, as many others do. It's personal preference. As an example, I believe Al Capone was a criminal long before he got convicted for tax evasion.


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    #80
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    somuj wrote: »
    Paying for sex in Ireland wasnt a crime untill recently. Still might not have finalised in the Dail. So that is a load of crap.

    May not have been illegal at the time. Still didn't stop the Limerick Leader putting all their mugshots on the front page.


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    #81
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Gob****e has been back in court today , his solicitor informed the judge he has cancelled his trip and has withdrew his application for legal aid his solicitor is representing him pro bono
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #82
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Gatling wrote: »
    Gob****e has been back in court today , his solicitor informed the judge he has cancelled his trip and has withdrew his application for legal aid his solicitor is representing him pro bono

    so the solicitor was talking shiiiite .

    why is it acceptable for a solicitor to lie through their yellow crooked teeth to a judge with out consequence?


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