3rd Antichrist?

BuilderPlumber

I am unsure about things like this said by Nostradamus and other such prophecies. But have got to thinking about what an anti-christ is supposed to be?

If one is the follow the meaning of it, it means someone who goes against Christ. That is Jesus. So, anyone (evil or not) from Christianity or Islam are excluded (even ISIS or Lord's Resistance Army). The two last so-called antichrists were named as Napoleon and Hitler, both who were not particularly religious and who separated church and state.

With that in mind, the third antichrist would follow suit. We see the cold shadow of atheism gaining acceptance all over the world and ironically many of the religious fanatics we see today have been the creation of atheists from the West back in the 1980s.

Many at the moment assume that the 3rd antichrist is Vladimir Putin. Putin fits the criteria to a degree: he is not particularly religious, presides over a rich/powerful country and is a strong leader. I say this is too convenient and if asked 2 years ago or so, it surely would have been Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (the then president of a poor country) and before that bin Laden and Saddam. NONE of these bar bin Laden have done anything worthy of comparison to Hitler. Plus as evil and all as bin Laden was, he is fighting in the name of god and his prophets so more warped pro-christ than anti.

So, the next antichrist has to meet the following criteria.

1. Emerge from a rich country: From either the West, Russia, China, Australia, Israel or Japan presumably.
2. Be atheist and against both Christianity and Islam. Can't be Jewish either as they are waiting for Christ. They just don't believe Jesus was Christ.
3. Have a name like MABUS or SUBAM. The latter was used for justifying Saddam as the 3rd antichrist I remember. But Saddam was not really religious, fought against religious extremists in his country but was not the leader of a powerful country.

degrassinoel

mod note: Touching heavily on various religions here - Keep in mind our forum charter when posting in this thread.

estudent

Putin, the antichrist? .......'Heil Putler'?

The problem with your theory is the delusion of morality. I'm not saying you're delusional but we've all been conditioned to believe in the concept of Good vs Evil when there's really no evidence to support it.

Neither side of this conflict is right but I don't think it was unexpected Russia would feel threatened by the US and its NATO partners overthrowing the government in Ukraine using Fascist thugs and claiming it to be a democratic success.

Democracy for Anglo-American power is essentially just a government with Pro-American policies, a vassal state if you will. US don't actually give a hoot about the people as you can already see evidence how they treat American public in general.

On the Good vs Evil argument, let's say you were in Africa somewhere and a Lion decided to eat you, is that an act of evil? Or is the Lion just acting upon its instincts in order to survive?

The Lion doesn't see you and say "well, I'm not eating him, cause then his species will think I'm evil" more likely it's thinking "yep, that'll do me..kinda hungry"

Same could be said for a shark that might attack a human. There is no invisible hand keeping a balance between acts of perceived good and evil, however unfortunate that is.

There's just a choice we make but humans are smarter than shark or lion so we know that destruction of other species is detrimental to our own survival.

We're told the US is righteous force in the world and the 'Good' guy on the block when there's really no evidence to support it. Look at the innumerable wars waged by the US throughout its history, the annihilation of other cultures and tribes starting with Native Americans. Destruction of South America, Asia with Vietnam and Korea wars. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, propping up dictatorships in the Middle East and Arab peninsula.

Where is your evidence America is the 'Good' actor?

I'm not endorsing Putin or Russia, but it's obvious they aren't encroaching on America's borders with military equipment and personnel or deliberately overthrowing governments in proximity to them for their own vested interests.

I'm sorry but, calling Putin the antichrist is just falling for the propaganda published by western media. If anyone is responsible for Putin being in power and his popularity, it is US and its NATO allies who instead of trying to help Russia after the collapse of USSR thought it more appropriate to plunder its wealth at the expense of Russian people.

You also mention Iranian leader which is also laughable, these are people despised by western elites who aren't nice people at all.

MrPudding

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

We see the cold shadow of atheism gaining acceptance all over the world

:rolleyes: Yes, one only need to look at the horror of Sweden and those other awful atheistic Scandinavian countries to see this 'cold shoulder', terrible state of affairs, to be sure.

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

2. Be atheist and against both Christianity and Islam. Can't be Jewish either as they are waiting for Christ. They just don't believe Jesus was Christ.

Is being the anti-christ an unconscious role. Can one be the anti-christ whilst no knowing or realising it? Can one fulfil the role of the anti-christ and not know it? I alway thought the anti-christ was supposed to be a person actively and positively working against christ and gods. Is this not the case?

MrP

degrassinoel

Lads, this is based on Nostradamus' quatrains

Cut out the religion bashing or big brother will intervene.

BuilderPlumber

estudent wrote: »

Putin, the antichrist? .......'Heil Putler'?

The problem with your theory is the delusion of morality. I'm not saying you're delusional but we've all been conditioned to believe in the concept of Good vs Evil when there's really no evidence to support it.

Neither side of this conflict is right but I don't think it was unexpected Russia would feel threatened by the US and its NATO partners overthrowing the government in Ukraine using Fascist thugs and claiming it to be a democratic success.

Democracy for Anglo-American power is essentially just a government with Pro-American policies, a vassal state if you will. US don't actually give a hoot about the people as you can already see evidence how they treat American public in general.

On the Good vs Evil argument, let's say you were in Africa somewhere and a Lion decided to eat you, is that an act of evil? Or is the Lion just acting upon its instincts in order to survive?

The Lion doesn't see you and say "well, I'm not eating him, cause then his species will think I'm evil" more likely it's thinking "yep, that'll do me..kinda hungry"

Same could be said for a shark that might attack a human. There is no invisible hand keeping a balance between acts of perceived good and evil, however unfortunate that is.

There's just a choice we make but humans are smarter than shark or lion so we know that destruction of other species is detrimental to our own survival.

We're told the US is righteous force in the world and the 'Good' guy on the block when there's really no evidence to support it. Look at the innumerable wars waged by the US throughout its history, the annihilation of other cultures and tribes starting with Native Americans. Destruction of South America, Asia with Vietnam and Korea wars. Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, propping up dictatorships in the Middle East and Arab peninsula.

Where is your evidence America is the 'Good' actor?

I'm not endorsing Putin or Russia, but it's obvious they aren't encroaching on America's borders with military equipment and personnel or deliberately overthrowing governments in proximity to them for their own vested interests.

I'm sorry but, calling Putin the antichrist is just falling for the propaganda published by western media. If anyone is responsible for Putin being in power and his popularity, it is US and its NATO allies who instead of trying to help Russia after the collapse of USSR thought it more appropriate to plunder its wealth at the expense of Russian people.

You also mention Iranian leader which is also laughable, these are people despised by western elites who aren't nice people at all.

I agree with all this.

First of all of course, the term 'antichrist' is often used for propaganda reasons by whichever entity wants to blacken its enemy. I for one never said America or the West in general has to be the 'good' side. We are sold that stuff by them when it wants to go to war. Saddam and Ahmadinejad, from very poor and weak nations, being threats to the world? Give me a break! In reality, the West has being doing so for years.

On the other side, I'm sure enemies of the West portrayed GW Bush as the antichrist and I remember he being called such. But as another poster said this is all just from Nostradamus and is a bit like saying Mad Max or Road Warrior is a prediction of a world war 3 based on oil in the future and then if the event occurred, bingo! Prediction! Nostradamus probably wrote futuristic fiction that was realistic enough too.

Chances are some event or some person will emerge to be likened to his 3 antichrists. But I am sure there have been far more than 3 antichrists if you take it to mean very evil people. Napoleon, Hitler and whoever is the current Western bogeyman suits the West overall (with possibly half of France and fringe far right parties disagreeing). Ask other places, they could come up with 3 others.

BuilderPlumber

MrPudding wrote: »

:rolleyes: Yes, one only need to look at the horror of Sweden and those other awful atheistic Scandinavian countries to see this 'cold shoulder', terrible state of affairs, to be sure.

Is being the anti-christ an unconscious role. Can one be the anti-christ whilst no knowing or realising it? Can one fulfil the role of the anti-christ and not know it? I alway thought the anti-christ was supposed to be a person actively and positively working against christ and gods. Is this not the case?

MrP

It seems like the antichrist is someone who can gain power and present his evil agenda in a way that initially at least seems good for his people. Take a guy everyone agrees was either personally evil or definitely was the front for an evil movement: Hitler. The cold shadow of atheism I mean is far right organisations as well as far left extremists too. Think more North Korea than Sweden!!

The antichrist has to present himself as bigger and more powerful than god, has to fill that role and has to confront god. God stands in his way. Again, Hitler comes to mind. He assumed power in Germany and then picked off weaker parts of Europe. Then, he forms alliances with other fascists. Then, he takes aim at powerful countries. He thinks he and his supporters are totally invincible.

Now, many others have come and gone with such crazy ideologies. Pol Pot certainly was evil but confined to one poor SE Asian country. And there have been other mini-antichrists. But no one comparable to Hitler has risen to power since then. And we have had no WW3.

If we are to believe Nostradamus as fact, what happens is this evil leader emerges called Mabus and he gets killed early enough causing a major war that lasts 25 years.

Beano

cold shadow of atheism?? you'll have to explain that one to me.

BuilderPlumber

Beano wrote: »

cold shadow of atheism?? you'll have to explain that one to me.

Kim Jong Un. Kim Jong Il. Pol Pot. Neo Nazis. These type of people.

Beano

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Kim Jong Un. Kim Jong Il. Pol Pot. Neo Nazis. These type of people.

so a person who kills in the name of religion couldnt be the anti-christ? it has to be an atheist?

oh and btw you missed out two probably even bigger mass murderers in stalin and mao.

degrassinoel

they're just examples beano, ye didn't want him to name every dictator that ever lived did ye?

RobbingBandit

It's not Putin, Obama fits the profile, he is a charismatic secretive man at the head of one of the most powerful and richest countries in the world, when he was elected he could have stopped the wars Bush Jr had started, does anyone know what faith Obama follows, on the basis of the Adolf Hitler and Napoleon comparisons Obama the so called leader of the free world fits the bill.

Wereghost

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Kim Jong Un. Kim Jong Il. Pol Pot. Neo Nazis. These type of people.

The Nazis were Christian, and North Korea mythologises - and arguably deifies - its leaders, revering the late Kim Il-Sung as the "Eternal President Of The Republic". It seems that none of the names referred to (or even Stalin or Mao) or their movements was defined by a non-belief in deities. Rather, their respective movements could be said to be defined by extreme ideology of a counter-rational, faith-based and cultish character (though maybe Pol Pot's less than the others).

http://www.skepticink.com/tippling/2014/03/03/a-great-myth-about-atheism-hitlerstalinpol-pot-atheism-atrocity/

--> There's no "cold shadow of atheism".

Napoleon and Hitler were both apparently not only Christian (in Hitler's case, very publicly so) but Roman Catholic. Given that, and the fact that the biblical Satan is by definition a believer in God and in fact demonstrably a believer in Christ's divinity (ie he's a Christian), it seems that what you require is a highly persuasive but internationally belligerent political figure who at least claims to believe in Jesus' divinity, if not to worship him.

Where are the Georges Bush when you need them?

BuilderPlumber

Beano wrote: »

so a person who kills in the name of religion couldnt be the anti-christ? it has to be an atheist?

oh and btw you missed out two probably even bigger mass murderers in stalin and mao.

A person who kills in the name of religion is a warped-christ or whatever.
An anti-christ by the very definition is someone who either has a personality cult around them that wants to replace religion or else worships the devil. It is not being an atheist.

Of course, Stalin and Mao as well as many others are there too. Certainly, I think there are 1000s more evil than Napoleon (who was probably again put in there for political reasons).

Also, a person who kills in the name of religion is evil but is supposedly doing it in the name of god and/or god's prophets. Which means that the likes of ISIS are 'working for Allah, Mohammed and ... Jesus'! But of course they are in reality using religion as a tool of oppression and that in itself is blasphemy and abuse of religion so I guess an antichrist can use religion against god. But I think there are more than 3 anyhow and at least 1 of Nostradamus' supposed ones (Napoleon) was left in the hapenny place by many others both before and after.

BuilderPlumber

Wereghost wrote: »

The Nazis were Christian, and North Korea mythologises - and arguably deifies - its leaders, revering the late Kim Il-Sung as the "Eternal President Of The Republic". It seems that none of the names referred to (or even Stalin or Mao) or their movements was defined by a non-belief in deities. Rather, their respective movements could be said to be defined by extreme ideology of a counter-rational, faith-based and cultish character (though maybe Pol Pot's less than the others).

http://www.skepticink.com/tippling/2014/03/03/a-great-myth-about-atheism-hitlerstalinpol-pot-atheism-atrocity/

--> There's no "cold shadow of atheism".

Napoleon and Hitler were both apparently not only Christian (in Hitler's case, very publicly so) but Roman Catholic. Given that, and the fact that the biblical Satan is by definition a believer in God and in fact demonstrably a believer in Christ's divinity (ie he's a Christian), it seems that what you require is a highly persuasive but internationally belligerent political figure who at least claims to believe in Jesus' divinity, if not to worship him.

Where are the Georges Bush when you need them?

Yes. Napoleon and Hitler were both born Catholic. I think Mussolini was most definitely a Catholic and facilitated the Vatican very much. Hitler officially advocated separation of church and state as did Napoleon. Hitler of course regarded Christianity as superior to other faiths obviously and his idea was that Germany was a Catholic and Lutheran country only.

Pol Pot probably presided over the most evil regime ever. But it gets less attention because it was in a far away poor country with not much resources.

Cults had often to be developed by regimes religious or otherwise. Stalin and Mao presided over perhaps the most successful. The new Revolutionary Guards regime in Iran had to set up a cult around an exiled 80 year old priest called Khomeini they planed back from France and used as figurehead. Saddam, Nasser, Gadafi, etc. are all example of Arab leaders famous for setting up cults. Some of these mixed the relevant religion, some not so much. In the middle ages, every pope and king set up a cult that linked the king to the pope and ultimately to god. To this day, the monarch of the UK is head of that nations church (Henry VIII when he fell out with the pope had to become that role for his new church). The Kims in North Korea have become almost a new religion. Check out their national holidays. They have holidays equivalent to Christmas at that time of year in celebration of the Kims. Needless to say, every important Kim birthday is a day like Christmas!

Beano

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

...The cold shadow of atheism I mean is far right organisations as well as far left extremists too ...

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

... It is not being an atheist.
...

so if the anti-christ is not an atheist what is the relevance of "the cold shadow of atheism"?

Beano

degrassinoel wrote: »

they're just examples beano, ye didn't want him to name every dictator that ever lived did ye?

did i do something wrong?

ankaragucu

Who were the first two anti christs did you say?

degrassinoel

Beano wrote: »

did i do something wrong?

you were nitpicking Beano, you made a point of it and i pointed it out for ye, and here again.. so yeah i guess ye did

Beano

degrassinoel wrote: »

you were nitpicking Beano, you made a point of it and i pointed it out for ye, and here again.. so yeah i guess ye did

all a bit pointless anyway as builderplumber seems to have fecked off.

DamagedTrax

what if the 3rd antichrist isnt a person, what if its an entire country that considers itself 'the last frontier of the free world'.

BuilderPlumber

DamagedTrax wrote: »

what if the 3rd antichrist isnt a person, what if its an entire country that considers itself 'the last frontier of the free world'.

I presume you mean the US here?? If so, then the supposed name of the 3rd antichrist is MABUS. The letters US are there so what is MAB?

Reasons for and against the entire US to be the antichrist:

For:

-There are some pretty evil non-religious people in that country who take huge risks, pretend to be conservative (when they are in fact the opposite: complete radicals), and pretend to be religious (when they are in fact anything of the kind). We see this with the likes of the neocons, Sarah Palin, etc.
-A desire to take over or influence the world is there. Bush's wars are an example and the constant having to have any enemy.
-The rich/poor divide is huge. African Americans and native Americans have had a very poor treatment by the mostly white authorities over the years.
-Cruel forms of capital punishment and a persistent gun/violence culture exists in many states.
-The first and thus far only country to use nuclear weapons in war.

Against:

-The US has been lead by good, poor, weak and bad presidents. Never consistently bad. Obama is a vast improvement on his predecessor.
-US foreign policy has not always been aggressive or self righteous.
-Some wars were forced onto the US and not initiated by them.
-There are a lot of far more dictatorial, crueller regimes.
-People can vote (don't know if that means anything anywhere though!).

What if it is MAB and US? MAB are the initials of some yet to emerge president of the US? Anyway, it's only Nostradamus!!

DamagedTrax

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I presume you mean the US here?? If so, then the supposed name of the 3rd antichrist is MABUS. The letters US are there so what is MAB?

Reasons for and against the entire US to be the antichrist:

For:

-There are some pretty evil non-religious people in that country who take huge risks, pretend to be conservative (when they are in fact the opposite: complete radicals), and pretend to be religious (when they are in fact anything of the kind). We see this with the likes of the neocons, Sarah Palin, etc.
-A desire to take over or influence the world is there. Bush's wars are an example and the constant having to have any enemy.
-The rich/poor divide is huge. African Americans and native Americans have had a very poor treatment by the mostly white authorities over the years.
-Cruel forms of capital punishment and a persistent gun/violence culture exists in many states.
-The first and thus far only country to use nuclear weapons in war.

Against:

-The US has been lead by good, poor, weak and bad presidents. Never consistently bad. Obama is a vast improvement on his predecessor.
-US foreign policy has not always been aggressive or self righteous.
-Some wars were forced onto the US and not initiated by them.
-There are a lot of far more dictatorial, crueller regimes.
-People can vote (don't know if that means anything anywhere though!).

What if it is MAB and US? MAB are the initials of some yet to emerge president of the US? Anyway, it's only Nostradamus!!

i actually meant israel.

their slogan is 'Israel: The last frontier of the free world' (beggars belief but i digress).


1. "Antichrist" will be of European descent and bloodline.

Netanyahu's real family name is Milkowsky, and he is of Lithuanian, Polish, and Belorussian descent.


2. "Antichrist" would be accepted as the Jewish Mashiach Ben David.

In order for this to be true, the "Antichrist" must be a Jew. Netanyahu is a Jew.


3. "Antichrist" will be accepted by the end times false apostate "Christian" church.

This refers to Zionist Christianity, which openly states that its sole purpose to exist, is to push and support whatever Israel's political agenda is.


4. "Antichrist" will setup a throne in Jerusalem, in a newly re-built Jewish Temple.

There are many reports that Israel's current government is planning to rebuild the temple soon.



this is a man that welcomes war

BuilderPlumber

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i actually meant israel.

their slogan is 'Israel: The last frontier of the free world' (beggars belief but i digress).


1. "Antichrist" will be of European descent and bloodline.

Netanyahu's real family name is Milkowsky, and he is of Lithuanian, Polish, and Belorussian descent.


2. "Antichrist" would be accepted as the Jewish Mashiach Ben David.

In order for this to be true, the "Antichrist" must be a Jew. Netanyahu is a Jew.


3. "Antichrist" will be accepted by the end times false apostate "Christian" church.

This refers to Zionist Christianity, which openly states that its sole purpose to exist, is to push and support whatever Israel's political agenda is.


4. "Antichrist" will setup a throne in Jerusalem, in a newly re-built Jewish Temple.

There are many reports that Israel's current government is planning to rebuild the temple soon.



this is a man that welcomes war

Yes, didn't think of this one. Again, here's a few views why Netanyahu's Israel may be the third antichrist and why it may not be:

For:

-Israel's regime has gone to war countless times and committed warcrimes.
-Israel's regime pretends to be religious but is very materialistic.
-Netanyahu has an agenda and thinks his is the only way.
-Most wars in his region are directly or indirectly caused by him and his regime or else he and his predecessors contribute.
-The regime is paranoid and paranoid people are dangerous. Or else attract danger (Just look how poor old Nidge ended season 5 of Love/Hate)!

Against:

-Israel has been created and nurtured by others and is an agent of others.
-The hatred is on both sides. Many awful acts have been done onto Israel too.
-Israel is not the only paranoid country.
-There are worse regimes like Saudi Arabia and North Korea.
-Israel's own agenda is very limited and does not pose a threat to others outside its region.

I never can understand why Israel is always obsessed with that poor country to its East called Iran which is hardly a threat to anyone. It never mentions that rich country to its south that actually funds all the so-called 'Islamic' terrorist groups Israel accuses Iran of doing. That country is Saudi Arabia, the most anti-Israel nation on the planet. Saudi Arabia has a lot of money to fund this stuff. Iran has nothing to fund anything.

Voodoo_rasher

Why can't the Antichrist be an ordinary joe soap like myself??

sbsquarepants

Beano wrote: »

so a person who kills in the name of religion couldnt be the anti-christ? it has to be an atheist?

oh and btw you missed out two probably even bigger mass murderers in stalin and mao.

Just a thought - but if I was the antichrist (I'm not, I swear) I would tell a few porkie pies - I'd be all praise Jebus and shít, keep the eye off me.
I wouldn't go around being all antichristy and easy to spot.

But that's just me.

Yakult

For an Antichrist to exist, religion must be a real thing. Which imo, it isn't thus not believing such a thing.

Those "Antichrists" are nothing more than humans and human nature. Bad people exist everywhere, some rise to a position of power, some don't. Hardly a religious phenomenon.

Ipso

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

Why can't the Antichrist be an ordinary joe soap like myself??

No offense, but I doubt you could become a world leader and convince all religions to unite as one.
You know, all that really true stuff that has been predicted for the last 2,000 years and was never ever wrong.

BuilderPlumber

Mohammed bin Salman is the 3rd AntiChrist if one believes in Nostradamus. He is known as MbS for short quite similar to MABUS.

jimmycrackcorm

Yakult wrote: »

For an Antichrist to exist, religion must be a real thing. Which imo, it isn't thus not believing such a thing.

Those "Antichrists" are nothing more than humans and human nature. Bad people exist everywhere, some rise to a position of power, some don't. Hardly a religious phenomenon.

Religions do exist - there are physical church buildings all over that are representative of this fact.

Christ is a "religious phenomenon" and a human, so an antichrist is someone who is simply the opposite of his ideas and teachings. I have a 3-year-old niece who can be like that at times...

BuilderPlumber

If one believes in Nostradamus and take his writings as fact (and not as the medieval answer to apocalyptic films like Mad Max) then Mohammed bin Salman fits the bill most as the third antichrist. Why?

Firstly he is from the Middle East the region the third AC is supposed to come out of. Secondly, as leader of Saudi Arabia and as a stated reformer, he will be initially seen as good. So alcohol and bikinis become legal under his rule and women can dress as they please. He becomes a hero to Muslims and the West and his reforms become a key to defeating terrorism and extremism.

BUT: he has other plans that he wants to implement. He annexes Yemen, Iraq and Syria and his new Modern Islamic Arab Nationalism driven by a thriving oil, tourism and financial industry suddenly puts Saudi Arabia on a footing to be the next superpower.

Meanwhile, similar reforms are taking place in Iran and the West and America are getting friendlier with the new Islamic Federal Republic of Iran which like Saudi Arabia allows alcohol and dress as one pleases and which like Saudi Arabia is thriving. Iran is not interested in expansionism though and fits as a better partner to the West, Russia and China. Saudi Arabia under MBS as he is known still remains a major Western ally and the West are in two minds about SA and Iran and both nations are trying to woo the world with lucrative oil deals. Iran does not like how Shias are treated in Saudi Arabia's new Iraq province and although it is officially autonymous, it is ruled from Riyadh and not Baghdad with an iron fist. Tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia escalate. Saudi Arabia decide to invade Iran and drive the world into a recession when oilwells are destroyed in the war. America takes Iran's side in the war and orders an invasion of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia use their nuclear weapons (they are a nuclear power) and do a lot of damage but America defeats it but 25 years of war follows with different groups vying for control and terrorism everywhere. The Gulf region is a wreck leaving Tehran and the Caspian area the main oil region left.

Of course the above is just fiction but it is what all those Nostradamus people have been saying for years. With a few changes the same was said about Saddam. MBS sounds like MaBuS and it is likely we will be hearing more theories about him.

BuilderPlumber

Some of the people named as potentially the third antichrist who were not it include:

Saddam Hussein
George W Bush
Osama bin Laden
Vladimir Putin
Slobosan Milosevic
Mohammed Taqi Mesbah Yazdi
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi
Donald Trump
Barack Obama
Bill Clinton
Hilary Clinton
Ronald Reagan

So any American president or any outspoken Middle East leader can become the anti-Christ? Admittedly there are some very evil people in the above list and especially the two leaders of the 2 terrorist organisations. Others are more convenient. Sometimes they are picked as it is argued their names sound like Mabus.

Mesbah Yazdi for example. This guy is an 82 year old Iranian priest with hardline views on America and against Iran's current moderate government. He is unlikely to hold power in Iran.

Saddam was compared to Mabus. Mabus is Subam backwards. Turn the b around and you get a d and it is Sudam. Close to Saddam!


Then there is the comparison between the word Mabus and the word Trump. Saumb is how letters from Mabus is arranged to be Trump. The S is code for T like in Hister for Hitler. The A is really R and b is p upside down. Personally I find Nostradamus fascinating but from a science fiction perspective akin to Mad Max or Blade Runner.

branie2

He's known as a man in a blue turban

Dohnjoe

Nostradamus wrote in Middle French, using vague words, metaphors, and obscure, dated references. There are dozens of different translations of his "Centuries" book, with many variations on different words and phrases. This wide variety of interpretations helps the prophecies come "true," since if one translation doesn't really support the historical evidence, another can often be found that fits better.

https://www.livescience.com/24213-nostradamus.html

branie2

In my teenage years, I had a great interest in Nostradamus

branie2

Did you ever see a Nostradamus documentary called the Man who Saw Tomorrow? It was hosted by Orson Welles, and was very good.

MonkieSocks

branie2 wrote: »

Did you ever see a Nostradamus documentary called the Man who Saw Tomorrow? It was hosted by Orson Welles, and was very good.

Yeah seen it a good few years ago 1981

Remember the bit about the attack on New York:eek:

Here's a linky


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hg6li

4068ac1elhodqr

Nostradamus (among others) indicated Mt. Vesuvius will erupt end of 2018 (late winter).

Other interesting, but very questionable predictions:

WW3 to begin 3mths after the EU closes it’s borders, specific focus on France, the 'blue turban' may relate to the UN.
There is some talk already of Chi-Rus-Nk setting up their own alternative internet, and eventually reserve currency.

Asteroid damage, possibly from 101955/Bennu, significant disruption, but not overly so.

BuilderPlumber

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

Nostradamus (among others) indicated Mt. Vesuvius will erupt end of 2018 (late winter).

Other interesting, but very questionable predictions:

WW3 to begin 3mths after the EU closes it’s borders, specific focus on France, the 'blue turban' may relate to the UN.
There is some talk already of Chi-Rus-Nk setting up their own alternative internet, and eventually reserve currency.

Asteroid damage, possibly from 101955/Bennu, significant disruption, but not overly so.

I believe if WW3 was to happen, it would be the result of the change in nature of some powerful country. Most likely this would be the US. Over the last number of years, we have seen some politicians there pandering to racists, paranoid freaks, etc. who apparently make up a sizeable minority there. The US is divided between a moderate majority and a significant radical and racist paranoid minority. You can see the result of this now with Donald Trump deciding to pander to a portion of the electorate most presidents preferred to ignore.

This is where the dangers start. Trump is not a racist, isolationist paranoid survivalist freak but he has decided to sell himself to such individuals and probably owes the US far right money. The US far right have used Trump as a stepping stone and so far relations with countries traditionally seen as US allies (including the UK) have disimproved. Trump is not a believer in the cause he fronts for but suppose the movement gains momentum and takes advantage of events and sets up a dictatorship? Trump would be replaced by a real KKK operative and a fanatic regime would rule the most powerful country on earth. Things like the Iran deal, climate change, relations with other powers, etc. would be seen by Europe, the UK, etc. as more important than maintaining relations with a dictatorial US. This then could lead to war and the US treating Europe like they did the Middle East.

Of course, all this depends on the far right's stepping stone Trump to remain in place and remain committed. Trump is in deep trouble and Trump quickly changes his ideology when it suits and if this Flynn/Kushner thing comes to him, he will rat on those above him too thus making the possibility of a US KKK dictatorship remote.

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BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I believe if WW3 was to happen, it would be the result of the change in nature of some powerful country. Most likely this would be the US. Over the last number of years, we have seen some politicians there pandering to racists, paranoid freaks, etc. who apparently make up a sizeable minority there. The US is divided between a moderate majority and a significant radical and racist paranoid minority. You can see the result of this now with Donald Trump deciding to pander to a portion of the electorate most presidents preferred to ignore.

This is where the dangers start. Trump is not a racist, isolationist paranoid survivalist freak but he has decided to sell himself to such individuals and probably owes the US far right money. The US far right have used Trump as a stepping stone and so far relations with countries traditionally seen as US allies (including the UK) have disimproved. Trump is not a believer in the cause he fronts for but suppose the movement gains momentum and takes advantage of events and sets up a dictatorship? Trump would be replaced by a real KKK operative and a fanatic regime would rule the most powerful country on earth. Things like the Iran deal, climate change, relations with other powers, etc. would be seen by Europe, the UK, etc. as more important than maintaining relations with a dictatorial US. This then could lead to war and the US treating Europe like they did the Middle East.

Of course, all this depends on the far right's stepping stone Trump to remain in place and remain committed. Trump is in deep trouble and Trump quickly changes his ideology when it suits and if this Flynn/Kushner thing comes to him, he will rat on those above him too thus making the possibility of a US KKK dictatorship remote.

That all sounds like a bad 'B movie' sci-fi script from the '80s.

Trump won the election, mainly because of the industrial neglect over decade(s) e.g. Detroit, dust-belt etc. People voted for #1 job security, and that's what they're generally getting (stocks/shares all at peak).

It wasn't reliant on support from a few old boys out at in their pickups at the weekends, having a few beers, burning wood and wearing white sheets in the deep south.

The 3rd AC (if there is to be one), will likely come from (ME&A), but may well threaten the current world leadership or balances of power.

BuilderPlumber

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

That all sounds like a bad 'B movie' sci-fi script from the '80s.

Trump won the election, mainly because of the industrial neglect over decade(s) e.g. Detroit, dust-belt etc. People voted for #1 job security, and that's what they're generally getting (stocks/shares all at peak).

It wasn't reliant on support from a few old boys out at in their pickups at the weekends, having a few beers, burning wood and wearing white sheets in the deep south.

The 3rd AC (if there is to be one), will likely come from (ME&A), but may well threaten the current world leadership or balances of power.

All this 3rd antichrist stuff is from one man's imagination and Nostradamus is not supposed to be taken as fact. He predicted stuff but it was written in a coded way and his writings have been interpreted to mean predictions of various events.

I already stated the majority of Americans do not vote for KKK and other racist religious fanatics. Most Americans do not want that but there exists Americans with very racist intolerant views who would think nothing of using nuclear weapons against supposed 'enemies' and who think killing all Muslims is ok.

Donald Trump is a clown and he should know better than to dabble in the dealings of such people. But the dangers of extremism in US politics remains and though I personally see a fascist American dictatorship being stopped before it gets started, I believe the 3rd antichrist would have to be from a powerful country. With the sole exception of Israel, there is not one Middle Eastern nation with the ability to start world war 3. Israel is not an enemy of the West and is not a priority of the Russians or Chinese either. So unless some superpower suddenly sells a massive amount of nukes to some middle East nation other than Israel, the third antichrist from there is not coming anytime soon.

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BuilderPlumber wrote: »

All this 3rd antichrist stuff is from one man's imagination and Nostradamus is not supposed to be taken as fact. He predicted stuff but it was written in a coded way and his writings have been interpreted to mean predictions of various events.

I already stated the majority of Americans do not vote for KKK and other racist religious fanatics. Most Americans do not want that but there exists Americans with very racist intolerant views who would think nothing of using nuclear weapons against supposed 'enemies' and who think killing all Muslims is ok.

Donald Trump is a clown and he should know better than to dabble in the dealings of such people. But the dangers of extremism in US politics remains and though I personally see a fascist American dictatorship being stopped before it gets started, I believe the 3rd antichrist would have to be from a powerful country. With the sole exception of Israel, there is not one Middle Eastern nation with the ability to start world war 3. Israel is not an enemy of the West and is not a priority of the Russians or Chinese either. So unless some superpower suddenly sells a massive amount of nukes to some middle East nation other than Israel, the third antichrist from there is not coming anytime soon.

The US is one (if not the most) ethnically diverse nations on the planet, all your talk of the kkk politics/ians is a figment of your imagination.

Yes some inequality exists, but it does everywhere. Wealth (distribution) is the bigger divide. Donald is a fairly smart (but randomly expressive) billionaire and perhaps the last chance for the US economy (via slightly protectionist approach) against Eastern globalisation. But they will still likely sign a post-brexit deal shortly for mutual benefit.

There are plenty of players in the ME&A that can imitate ww3, but mostly through coalitions e.g. Rus was invited in, to help Syr's regime defeat the black flag wavers. Israel is a complex state and generally it's actions are de-stablising (they took out a dozen IRG this weekend) and just today it's PM is being questioned about corruption, amidst public protests.

NK could start W3 (of sorts) now if it wanted to, and Kim could be an AC candidate. Training re-commences with tonight's full moon and could upset Rocketman further. One single high altitude pulse from him could be very damaging indeed.

Meanwhile (mostly religious-free) China have recently tested hyper-sonic '41' delivery that can deliver tenfold payloads anywhere within minutes. Just one of those could immobilise an entire contentment.

So, yes plenty of candidates to choose from already.

Emme

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

3. Have a name like MABUS or SUBAM. The latter was used for justifying Saddam as the 3rd antichrist I remember. But Saddam was not really religious, fought against religious extremists in his country but was not the leader of a powerful country.

Leaders of powerful countries often act under the direction of powerful people in the background - the hidden hand so to speak. I can think of a powerful person who has a name with 5 letters and one is the letter "S". Not a world leader but somebody who has a lot of influence globally.

The Antichrist would not go around with horns and a blazing tail. He or she would probably be very charistmatic, appeal to youth and support good causes which would ultimately suit his or her agenda.

Nostradamus's predictions have been twisted to suit different agendas over the years so I would pay little heed to them. Everyone is capable of good and evil.

BuilderPlumber

Emme wrote: »

Leaders of powerful countries often act under the direction of powerful people in the background - the hidden hand so to speak. I can think of a powerful person who has a name with 5 letters and one is the letter "S". Not a world leader but somebody who has a lot of influence globally.

The Antichrist would not go around with horns and a blazing tail. He or she would probably be very charistmatic, appeal to youth and support good causes which would ultimately suit his or her agenda.

Nostradamus's predictions have been twisted to suit different agendas over the years so I would pay little heed to them. Everyone is capable of good and evil.

True. Donald Trump for example is clearly an agent of someone else. Trump is not evil but those he owes money and favours to are most certainly evil and seem to want to mess up America very deliberately. You could have Trump owing money to a set of Anti-American Russian criminals who in turn owe money to Anti-Western 'Islamists'. EVERYHTING America's current regime has done has made America look bad in the eyes of the world, has created more hatred and chaos and has been a very NEGATIVE regime from an AMERICAN perspective. I NEVER saw a president look so UNHAPPY as Donald Trump did on inauguration day. He looked more like a prisoner going into his cell for the first time ever. Says it all.

Of course, Nostradamus has been used and abused by many over the years. The anti-Christ could deceive people in a positive way or a negative way akin to whoever really rules America now. Of course, I also believe there is more than 3 anti-Christs and more than one can exist at a certain time. In recent years, I think ALL leaders of 'Islamic' terrorist groups like al Qaeda and ISIS, the current American regime's REAL leadership, elements of the Bush administration, the former Yugoslavia's Milosevic regime, and many others are ALL examples of anti-Christs.

4068ac1elhodqr

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

True. Donald Trump for example is clearly an agent of someone else. Trump is not evil but those he owes money and favours to are most certainly evil and seem to want to mess up America very deliberately. You could have Trump owing money to a set of Anti-American Russian criminals who in turn owe money to Anti-Western 'Islamists'. EVERYHTING America's current regime has done has made America look bad in the eyes of the world, has created more hatred and chaos and has been a very NEGATIVE regime from an AMERICAN perspective. I NEVER saw a president look so UNHAPPY as Donald Trump did on inauguration day. He looked more like a prisoner going into his cell for the first time ever. Says it all.

You clearly have an ill-formed anti-trump bias. Sure he's not great, but to suggest the '$billionaire' owes people money? Or 'favours', sure he was largely self-funded, and refused cash/sponsorship from corporations during his campaign, unlike many others who were representing big pharma etc.

And that the non-politican whom no one thought would even win is controlled/planted? Have you even read his twitter page? Does he not just say whatever he wants (too much dismay), and not what someone else wants.

Then the further delusion to go and say he didn't enjoy the inauguration???

The big lad lapped that up, sure he only slammed Obama/Clinton who was sitting behind him, and more or less called all the democratic politicians on stage beside him useless wasters. It was probably the best day out he ever had, to a global audience.

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Of course, Nostradamus has been used and abused by many over the years. The anti-Christ could deceive people in a positive way or a negative way akin to whoever really rules America now. Of course, I also believe there is more than 3 anti-Christs and more than one can exist at a certain time. In recent years, I think ALL leaders of 'Islamic' terrorist groups like al Qaeda and ISIS, the current American regime's REAL leadership, elements of the Bush administration, the former Yugoslavia's Milosevic regime, and many others are ALL examples of anti-Christs.

Nostradamus's predictions are a mixed bag, but there is occasional loose correlation. Think several folks also indicated the big volcano off Italy would erupt in the late winter of '18 so that would be one to pencil in.

BuilderPlumber

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

You clearly have an ill-formed anti-trump bias. Sure he's not great, but to suggest the '$billionaire' owes people money? Or 'favours', sure he was largely self-funded, and refused cash/sponsorship from corporations during his campaign, unlike many others who were representing big pharma etc.

And that the non-politican whom no one thought would even win is controlled/planted? Have you even read his twitter page? Does he not just say whatever he wants (too much dismay), and not what someone else wants.

Then the further delusion to go and say he didn't enjoy the inauguration???

The big lad lapped that up, sure he only slammed Obama/Clinton who was sitting behind him, and more or less called all the democratic politicians on stage beside him useless wasters. It was probably the best day out he ever had, to a global audience.



Nostradamus's predictions are a mixed bag, but there is occasional loose correlation. Think several folks also indicated the big volcano off Italy would erupt in the late winter of '18 so that would be one to pencil in.

I'm not anti-Trump. I'm against the people who run America and who hide behind Trump and cannot rule in their own right. They are evil and horrid. A lot of what is wrong in American politics goes back way beyond the current regime and the current regime is the end result of years of links between dodgy business, lobbies and poor politicians. The fact that the current regime seems to get everything wrong is obviously calculated. Trump is not a buffoon but is acting like one for the past few years for some reason.

Let's see what happens with the volcano in 2018. A lot of Nostradamus predictions were dots joined after events happened.

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

Nostradamus's predictions are a mixed bag, but there is occasional loose correlation. Think several folks also indicated the big volcano off Italy would erupt in the late winter of '18 so that would be one to pencil in.

None of Nostradamus's predictions have ever worked.
They have only ever been tentatively connected through stretching and manipulation or out right fabrication after the fact.

Any time anyone ever tried to use his writing to predict an event before it happens, they have failed.

It's not a mixed bag at all if you actually look into it.

Why do several people think a volcano will go off in Italy in 2018? What are they using to reach this conclusion? How come they can't name the volcano or give a more exact date?

branie2

Which quatrain tells us about the volcano?

4068ac1elhodqr

branie2 wrote: »

Which quatrain tells us about the volcano?

I'm probably alluding to other more modern seers± to specifically mention this for the Winter of 2018. Nos' through his style of writing (to avoid appearing as a magician at the time) is of course much more vague e.g.

(Cen 1, 87)
Earth-shaking fire from the center of the Earth.
will cause the towers around the New City {rome or ny?} to shake,
Two great rocks for a long time will make war,
And then Arethusa will color a new river red.

(Cen 10, 60)
I weep for Nice, Monaco, Pisa, Genoa,
Savona, Siena, Capua, Modena, Malta: {all Mediterranean coastal cities}
For the above blood and sword for a New Year's gift {winter},
Fire, the earth will tremble, water an unhappy reluctance.

± Some other more modern (accurate) seers have these for 2018 (published in Sept '17, so includes time since then)

– US forces striking North Korea by blowing up a key trade route
– Kim Jong-un being overthrown by his own people
– Failed attempt to impeach Donald Trump (yes)
– The sinking of a US warship (couple damaged)
– Theresa May will stay in power (yes)
– Volcano eruption near Naples <<<<
– Massive break in the Antarctic ice shelf (yes)
– Mass strikes organised by Jeremy Corbyn
– Terror attack on a UK motorway
– A world flu epidemic linked to biological terrorism
– Prince Harry announces his engagement (yes)
– Terrorists launching a chemical attack on London or Berlin
– Collapse of the Euro triggering riots across the EU
– An overall “bad year” for the world economies

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

I'm probably alluding to other more modern seers± to specifically mention this for the Winter of 2018. Nos' through his style of writing (to avoid appearing as a magician at the time) is of course much more vague e.g.

(Cen 1, 87)
Earth-shaking fire from the center of the Earth.
will cause the towers around the New City {rome or ny?} to shake,
Two great rocks for a long time will make war,
And then Arethusa will color a new river red.

(Cen 10, 60)
I weep for Nice, Monaco, Pisa, Genoa,
Savona, Siena, Capua, Modena, Malta: {all Mediterranean coastal cities}
For the above blood and sword for a New Year's gift {winter},
Fire, the earth will tremble, water an unhappy reluctance.

But neither of these actually refer to a volcano, nor 2018.
And if it is 2018, does this mean January? Or the following December?

Also these quatrains have been used to "predict" many different things before and they were wrong then. Why would this next one be different?

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

± Some other more modern (accurate) seers have these for 2018 (published in Sept '17, so includes time since then)

How exactly do you know these seers are accurate?

Aileen Gorgeous Wiper wrote: »

– US forces striking North Korea by blowing up a key trade route
– Kim Jong-un being overthrown by his own people
– Failed attempt to impeach Donald Trump (yes)
– The sinking of a US warship (couple damaged)
– Theresa May will stay in power (yes)
– Volcano eruption near Naples <<<<
– Massive break in the Antarctic ice shelf (yes)
– Mass strikes organised by Jeremy Corbyn
– Terror attack on a UK motorway
– A world flu epidemic linked to biological terrorism
– Prince Harry announces his engagement (yes)
– Terrorists launching a chemical attack on London or Berlin
– Collapse of the Euro triggering riots across the EU
– An overall “bad year” for the world economies

Things like these are "predicted" every single year.

It's interesting that you seem to indicate that several ideas are already true when the are patently not.
Ships getting damaged are not ships sinking. You cannot count that as an accurate prediction.
Also Prince Harry got engaged in this year, not 2018.

It's always telling that the predictions are always nice and vague and open to wiggling after the fact.

4068ac1elhodqr

King Mob wrote: »

But neither of these actually refer to a volcano, nor 2018. And if it is 2018, does this mean January? Or the following December?

It's interesting that you seem to indicate that several ideas are already true when the are patently not.

Ships getting damaged are not ships sinking. You cannot count that as an accurate prediction. Also Prince Harry got engaged in this year, not 2018.

It's always telling that the predictions are always nice and vague and open to wiggling after the fact.

Yes Nos' is fairly vague, and so should be taken lightly.

The other seer is very specific. Late winter of 2018 (probably Jan 2019) for the quake. Geologists have expressed raised concerns about this area, along with others.

Fair amount of big grey ships getting bumped, no sinking as of yet as already I said, just a couple damaged (so far) which is correct.

As stated they were published Sept of 2017, and relate to anytime since then, but emphasis is on '18, thus some of the list mentioned have already materalised e.g. so the engagement is correct.

Do reckon Kim will flee NK, his other options aren't great, there is ongoing trade sanction violations occurring so they may be responded to. This chap also predicted both trump and brexit previously.