Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I mean if thats what you find infuriating then I dont know what to say.
Its a non issue and just points to people letting their emotions rule their head, wanting to see managers jumping up and down on the touch line.

no I don't want him to be jumping around like a mad man, but during every game you need to tweak with the tactics a bit, the odd shout at a player to tell him to up his game, di maria should have been told to up his game yesterday, blind should have been told to look for the ball more, how many times was the ball passed back to de gea, to say our keeper had more touches of the ball than both falcao and van persie tells you everything

MythicalMadMan

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/no-belief-no-shape-no-clue-five-reasons-manchester-united-are-not-creating-goalscoring-chances-under-van-gaal-30975927.html

good points made here

Stopped reading after it said LVG always played 433 and its baffling that he doesnt with the players at his disposal than outlines a 4231. Read two paragraphs rubbish article tbh.

TheDoc

Just as a personal opinion. This isn't something I feel ,is anything other then my own feelings at the moment. Especially since just about before Christmas. And maybe ties in with the meltdown posts, but I don't feel it anywhere near crisis mode.

I find it more of a struggle to watch this team, than Moyes United, even at it's worst.

Bit of a bold statement. Many of you may have already stopped at the above line and are already writing your replies, but I'll carry on.

Last season I had a lot of sympathy for Moyes. He had inherited what I strongly felt was a overrated and troubled squad with serious issues. I'd maintained that stance throughout the title winning season also(for those who care to do searches) and I don't think it was some abstract thought considering every second week was a newspaper list or podcast titles of "Fergies worst title winning team?". I wasn't alone in the thought that the team cantering the league, was not good enough long term and needed work immediately.

Last season I watched Moyes struggle. I watched the team struggle. But look who I was actually looking at struggle. A Patrice Evra who had long snice raised flags that he was past his best and was an utter liability.
A centre back pairing in Ferdinand who looked absolutely shot. Loosing Dzeko over 2 yards for pace for his goal was as telling a moment all season. He wasn't capable anymore.
Vidic looked a shadow of his former self. Indecisive, sloppy, careless. And then a midseason flutter with Inter Milan was just what the club needed it's captain to do.

Robin Van Persie filling up his bath with tears of how he only got a season under Fergie. Injury stricken, unproffesionalism and attempts to distance himself from the chaos no doubt eyeing up a summer move.

A midfield consisting of Cleverly, at times a recovering Fletcher and a totally overwhelmed Carrick.

I could go on. The point being last season I was watching a really poor United team struggle with a manager many claimed was out of his depth, but little symapthy provided for the rubbish squad he had in front of him.

Now I'm looking at what is the new dawn for the club. A succesfull European manager with a serious pedigree and returning from a 3rd place finish in a world cup.

An investment in the squad that we have never seen before, which ended in the acquisition of six relatively high quality players. Two of which would make any fan salivate.

And instead of watching a ruthless lightning fast United having opposition defences crying for mercy as Di Maria, Falcao, Van PErsie and Rooney torture them, we have opposition defences laughing of the pitch at how limp the team is.

We had an injury crisis first half of the season. For that there is no doubt. A magnificent De Gea has maintained a defensive record that has us only behind Chelsea and Southamption I believe.

I didn't notice it for a while, the injuries being the excuse and problem that pooled the wool over my eyes. This team is playing poisonous with the front six. a front six that have no plan or idea what they actually should be doing. Keeping possesion for the sake of possesion with no movement or energy to create space.

I'll cut it off here since its probably already boring people to tears. But I feel strongly about it the last few weeks. This side is frustrating me more then any Moyes side.

The team is not doing anything, if there is plan, which I'm sure there is, it's totally lost on the players who don't know what to do. We are limp, creating no chances and scrambling for results.

My confidence in a top 4 finish was unshakable before Christmas, and now it's nearly shot. I've genuine worry setting in. And unfortunately the buck is firmly with the manager on this one.

I'm not advocating for any calls for a change or anything of the sort. I'm sure I'm not saying anything everyone else isn't thinking or advocating already.

But we are at the point in the season, you know, over half way, were the squad should be settled into what it needs to do and what way we need to play. Instead we have a manager still talking about "process". We have a team utterly disjointed and a team of marvellous individuals that sum up to sweet **** all.

RobertKK

I'm just glad everyone kept calm and posted nothing but sense since I last posted here.
In an extreme situation of overreaction it could be like the stock markets..sentiment is good,,calls for buy.buy, buy...next day sentiment changes and its sell, sell, sell...

At least no one here acts like that....

Lukker-

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Stopped reading after it said LVG always played 433 and its baffling that he doesnt with the players at his disposal than outlines a 4231. Read two paragraphs rubbish article tbh.

4231 is a Dutch 433. The #10 in the system is more a midfielder than a forward.

Maximus Alexander

Very disappointing yesterday. That is all.

Blatter

Doc, didn't you predict that United would win the league last season? Iirc you maintained that stance until Jan/Feb.

Some prediction for what you thought was a 'rubbish' squad. Lots of revisionism going on imo.

TheDoc

Blatter wrote: »

Doc, didn't you predict that United would win the league last season? Iirc you maintained that stance until Jan/Feb.

Some prediction for what you thought was a 'rubbish' squad. Lots of revisionism going on imo.

I felt there was a strong chance alright. We had a title winning squad with little change, a manager with PL experience in an environment with City bedding in a new manager, Chelsea bedding in Mourinho and Arsenal being Arsenal.

Have no trouble in saying that was my pre-season and early season prediction. I had thought the so called "experienced" side would take a load of Moyes bedding in, and would know how to win games.

I even had that stance just before Christmas where we weren't far off the pace, and thought we could string wins together like we historically did over Christmas and close the gap, and put pressure on second half of the season where again historically we were dangerous.

That never materialized. Chelsea and City weren't exactly blowing teams away last year. The collapse in our defence was alot sharper and quicker then I probably would have anticipated.

Either or, yeah, I wasn't convinced by the squad that won the title, that the club publicly announced would compete for titles for years to come, and I thought the club could capitalise on the shift of manager and squads going on around us. In the end, Liverpool were the ones that actually capitalised, albeit it falling short.

And I don't think it's a problem revising opinions now that the Moyes era is at an end. I can look back and see clearly the issues in the squad he had and considering the backing Van Gaal has got financially I feel nothing but sympathy for Moyes, who had flagged early on the squad issues the club were blind too.

Like I said I'm not being melodramatic or calling this a crisis. But I am more frustrated watching this side because there is so much obvious potential that is not being utilised here. I'm getting as frustrated and angry at Van Gaal during games as I was with Moyes, although had more sympathy for Moyes considering the squad he was working with.

LEaving Herrera and Mata unused while Fellaini get's thrown on for lump ball, is gross negligence. Van Gaal saying yesterday how maybe to create chances he can't use Di Maria or Januzaj, but maybe instead Fellaini. That is either a crafted swipe at those pair to up their game, or we have a serious issue with a manager not being able to efficently make use of the lavish gifts he has been given.

adox

The problem last season wasnt the squad(although it did need additions). The problem was firstly appointing Moyes and then leaving him in charge so far in to the season when it was obvious from an early stage that the players didnt believe in him. I still think we could have got a top 4 place if he had been removed before Christmas.

I find it infuriating that people seem to be re-writing history so quickly afterwards, feeling sorry for Moyes, blaming the squad etc.

For a multitude of reasons he was poisin to the club and the longer he was left in charge the more the rot set in and the bigger the job for the next person at the club to turn it around. His appointment and being left in charge so late in to the season set the club back at least a couple of years imo.

The_Kew_Tour

Having Rooney and Di Maria where they are is like playing with 9 men.

A squad the likes United have should be challenging for the title.

We have never had it as good with forward players especially.

Our defense while looking shaky is least of our worries.

The lack of fluidity, teamwork, link up and chance creation going forward is a huge worry/problem.

We have at least one half in every single game so far for past while we don't create any notable chances. Yesterday it was 1st half.

With the players of quality of Rooney, Falcao, RVP, Mata, Di Maria, Herrera alone United should be harressing every keeper and defence United play

castletownman

Even football365 agrees with my assessment of Rooney......

Drop Rooney
Watching Rooney play in midfield increasingly reminds me of Gerrard. Not the 25 year old box to box Gerrard who took the game by the scruff of the neck and did it all for the team, but the 35 year old legless Gerrard who clearly can't string back to back 90 minutes together with any consistency, tries to do it all for the team and is immune from being dropped for the big games due to his reputation.
Brian (maybe the England armband is a poisoned chalice), Wexford

I've made it!!

Quandary

Yesterday was a difficult day. LVG might have a clear picture in his own head of what exactly he is trying to achieve with this group of players but he needs to be able to put it into practice now.

The initial rage at how we played yesterday has subsided for me but I am finding myself getting increasingly worried about us.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

The problem last season wasnt the squad(although it did need additions). The problem was firstly appointing Moyes and then leaving him in charge so far in to the season when it was obvious from an early stage that the players didnt believe in him. I still think we could have got a top 4 place if he had been removed before Christmas.

I find it infuriating that people seem to be re-writing history so quickly afterwards, feeling sorry for Moyes, blaming the squad etc.

For a multitude of reasons he was poisin to the club and the longer he was left in charge the more the rot set in and the bigger the job for the next persona nd the club to turn it around. His appointment and being left in charge so late in to the season set the club back at least a couple of years imo.

In fairness I think it's fair to say I was pretty pro-Moyes during the great boards civil war of 2014. So I'm not exactly re-writting history(appreciate your comment might not be directed at me entirely).

While we could get hypothetical with what if Moyes was given the proper backing to land the targets he wanted like Cavani, Kroos, Tiago etc. I wouldn't go in depth disagreeing that towards the end it was poisonous and a change had to be made.

TheDoc

Quandary wrote: »

Yesterday was a difficult day. LVG might have a clear picture in his own head of what exactly he is trying to achieve with this group of players but he needs to be able to put it into practice now.

The initial rage at how we played yesterday has subsided for me but I am finding myself getting increasingly worried about us.

The only assurance for me, despite on paper, having tremendous attacking options, is that while the teams beneath us are starting to shift into gear, we are still ahead of them.

But that's the assumption I made last year and it never materialised. I'm making a grave assumption there is a gear to shift into for this team, were we start winning games well, and creating decent chances.

The unacceptable hypothetical is that we don't get into gear, and keep grinding out results, but drop points here and there, and we get caught.

But I'm very much in the " Van Gaal will figure it out" camp, but it needs to be sooner rather then later.

TheDoc

Burnley (H)
Preston (A) FA CUP
Swansea (A)
Sunderland (H)
Newcastle (A)

Before Totenham at home and Liverpool at Anfield. Am I absolutely incredible nieve to hope to go into that Spurs game on the back of five wins in a row?

Maximus Alexander

TheDoc wrote: »

Burnley (H)
Preston (A) FA CUP
Swansea (A)
Sunderland (H)
Newcastle (A)

Before Totenham at home and Liverpool at Anfield. Am I absolutely incredible nieve to hope to go into that Spurs game on the back of five wins in a row?

Yep. People have thought this many times this season and it has yet to happen. Nothing yesterday suggested it might happen now.

(Actually I'm a total liar, it did happen once).

Soldie

van Gaal's ego will be is undoing. He needs to get over himself and stop trying to play god by re-shaping each of his players according to his total football 'philosophy'. We have good players who have established themselves in their natural positions which makes his selections and formations all the more bizarre, not to mention frustrating.

WallyGUFC

TheDoc wrote: »

The only assurance for me, despite on paper, having tremendous attacking options, is that while the teams beneath us are starting to shift into gear, we are still ahead of them.

But that's the assumption I made last year and it never materialised. I'm making a grave assumption there is a gear to shift into for this team, were we start winning games well, and creating decent chances.

The unacceptable hypothetical is that we don't get into gear, and keep grinding out results, but drop points here and there, and we get caught.

But I'm very much in the " Van Gaal will figure it out" camp, but it needs to be sooner rather then later.

There's no figuring out needed. Take out RVP or Falcao, move Rooney up top, put in Herrera. Play players in their proper positions basically. If he doesn't change that and we miss out on top 4, he should be sacked imo.

bangkok

I think it is clear now that he has no philosophy, not even a hint of improvement since the start of the season, most players have actually gotten worse, di maria a shadow of the player he was at Madrid, not one player is taking any risks. actually no enjoyment watching man utd play any more

ericzeking

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Because all these top players are played in a way that they can't perform to their best or set up team in a way that players like Mata's strengths are nullified.

Van Gaal plats with 3 strikers, if he switches to simple 4-2-3-1 with Herrera Blind midfield, Di Maria, Mata, Januzaj behind striker and Rooney as lone striker that would solve most of the problems. We have pace, width to hurt opposition and Mata can spread the game well with wingers.

Totally agree, at the moment we are playing with a line of defenders and a line of attackers with nothing in between. Nothing to draw the opposition out and move them around the place, attackers just get the ball and are faced up by any half organised set up.

kstand

We got out of jail yesterday - again.
Its not working for Van Gaal and whatever his philosophy is.
I've had enough of him - no CL, no league cup, the easiest cup run we ever had, plenty of time to rest and prepare for games and yet we see the same dross week in week out. I was right behind the goal we scored into yesterday, 3 rows back - the amount of chances we had to shoot within 2s yards and elected to go wide so we could put crosses in was astounding - we hadnt a hope in hell of scoring from crosses until Feillaini came on. Then we started lumping balls up to him. That's how poor our midfield was, running round like headless chickens. Di maria looked lost - RVP is a shadow of the player he was.
This isnt working.

FutureGuy

kstand wrote: »

We got out of jail yesterday - again.
Its not working for Van Gaal and whatever his philosophy is.
I've had enough of him - no CL, no league cup, the easiest cup run we ever had, plenty of time to rest and prepare for games and yet we see the same dross week in week out. I was right behind the goal we scored into yesterday, 3 rows back - the amount of chances we had to shoot within 2s yards and elected to go wide so we could put crosses in was astounding - we hadnt a hope in hell of scoring from crosses until Feillaini came on. Then we started lumping balls up to him. That's how poor our midfield was, running round like headless chickens. Di maria looked lost - RVP is a shadow of the player he was.
This isnt working.

I would love to see the % of 50/50s and ariel duels on by both sides yesterday. We seemed to be second to everything.

I'd drop Van Persie and start Rooney up top vs Burnley. I'd also drop Januzaj to the bench and start two of Mata/Fellaini/Herrera.

kstand

FutureGuy wrote: »

I would love to see the % of 50/50s and ariel duels on by both sides yesterday. We seemed to be second to everything.

I'd drop Van Persie and start Rooney up top vs Burnley. I'd also drop Januzaj to the bench and start two of Mata/Fellaini/Herrera.

Cant understand why he doesnt play Herrera - looks an excellent player to me.

kstand

Also, I have a feeling that whatever summit was held after Christmas about transfers in January, the board told him to make do with what he had and if he failed to get in the top 4 he'd be off back to Holland.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

And I don't think it's a problem revising opinions now that the Moyes era is at an end. I can look back and see clearly the issues in the squad he had and considering the backing Van Gaal has got financially I feel nothing but sympathy for Moyes, who had flagged early on the squad issues the club were blind too.

It's a problem when you change your evaluation of the squad to the opposite of what it was before. It makes it look like you aren't thinking clearly and it completely undermines your argument about Moyes.

duffman13

My ideal team for Burnley

De Gea

Val/Raf - Jones - Smalling - Rojo

Blind - Fellaini

Herrera - Rooney/Mata - Di Maria

Falcao/Rooney

A team that is balanced and should be fluid from the start with a bit of bulk and energy in midfield. I just hope he doesn't revert to a back 5 with Shaw suspended.

adox

kstand wrote: »

Also, I have a feeling that whatever summit was held after Christmas about transfers in January, the board told him to make do with what he had and if he failed to get in the top 4 he'd be off back to Holland.

Ah would ya stop.

TheDoc

FutureGuy wrote: »

I would love to see the % of 50/50s and ariel duels on by both sides yesterday. We seemed to be second to everything.

I'd drop Van Persie and start Rooney up top vs Burnley. I'd also drop Januzaj to the bench and start two of Mata/Fellaini/Herrera.

one of the papers had it this morning, was pretty disgusting reading. But I think it was evident from the match itself, even Van Gaal made comment on it, so your spot on.

I think Rooney was one of three instances where a United player won an aerial duel in a defensive position. Van Persie got a good few going the other way, but it was the corners and free kicks where it was evident.

Obviously Van Gaal has seen good stuff from Januzaj on the training ground, he keeps saying that's where he picks his players from. Form in training. But I don't see the justification of him playing at all.

It does seem so blatantly obvious though. Rooney up front and pair him with RVP or Falcao, Mata tip of the diamond, Di Maria to the left and Herrera/Fellaini to the right. Blind at the base.

While Di Maria's end product has been really poor lately, atleast he was making those runs from deep yesterday which he was doing so well earlier in the season.

It was really in your face obvious yesterday with Neville and Carragher really picking up on it, but the static nature of Falcao and Van Persie really does make it difficult. Their isolation makes them drop deep, when you want them on the shoulder. Van Persie had a chance yesterday where he chested it down and struck it straight into Adrian. It was reminicent of Van Persie of old. Playing on the line and been fed through.

Having them drop deep is counter productive. They don't spin the ball around corners or play 1, 2's. They come deep and just tap a pass back to midfield, while the other doesn't make use of the space created in behind.

Irishcrx

I heard an interview he did the weekend for the Munich disaster and he was discussing how important it is for Manchester Utd to play like Man Utd.

He said that doesn't mean we have to always play with wingers but we have to play with pace , guile , fluidity and creativity.

I see none of the above in this Utd's style of play, It's slow , weak and lacks any creativity what so ever.

He needs to get over himself and change this crap system, 4-2-3-1 please. Blind and Herrera in the centre , Di Maria , Mata , Adnan in attacking midfield and Rooney or Falcao up top. RVP can pack his bags and head to the states at this stage.

bangkok

FutureGuy wrote: »

I would love to see the % of 50/50s and ariel duels on by both sides yesterday. We seemed to be second to everything.

I'd drop Van Persie and start Rooney up top vs Burnley. I'd also drop Januzaj to the bench and start two of Mata/Fellaini/Herrera.

well watching the game yesterday, di maria pulled out of 2 challenges, blind pulled out of 2 challenges, they are ones I can remember off the top of my head.

I would love to see this team start now at home..

---

De Gea

---

McNair/Rafael

---

Jones

---

Smalling

---

Rojo

---

Blind

---

---

Herrera

---

di Maria

---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Falcao

---

Please, please, please if you are reading this mr van gaal, start with this team