Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

TheDoc

Not really understanding people not rating Hummels.

He has been an outstanding CB for a number of years now. Wonderful distribution, a calm prescence, brilliant reader of the game. Also the pace thing is blown totally out of proportion.

It was the narrative during the World Cup, how the German CB's were suspect to fast counter attacks. Worth remembering Hummels wasn't even 100% fit during that WC and he was pretty impervious throughout.

If David Luiz sells for €50m, Hummels at €50m is an absolute steal.

A CB pairing of Hummels and Rojo would be mouthwatering.

Quandary

Coat22 wrote: »

Ed better have a team scurrying away in the background getting all these deals lined up for early June or we'll all be having panic attacks again next August when it'll already be too late.

At this stage it should be fairly clear to everyone that Ed Woodward will not be a problem when it comes to LVG signing a player. If we do not sign anyone in this transfer window, which at this late stage would appear to be the case, then it is because LVG feels his targets aren't available and is happy to stick with what we have for now.

I would love to see us sign a Hummels or Varane of course but part of me feels that LVG needs to step up to the plate and get our existing crop of players performing closer to their potential.

While they might not be world beaters, Smalling, Jones and Evans are no where near as bad as many would like to think. One (two if we persist with this 3 at the back cack) of the above 3 should be able to form a partnership with Rojo (who is currently by far our best central defender).

Just my 2c on it anyway.

Will I Amnt

TheDoc wrote: »

Not really understanding people not rating Hummels.

He has been an outstanding CB for a number of years now. Wonderful distribution, a calm prescence, brilliant reader of the game. Also the pace thing is blown totally out of proportion.

It was the narrative during the World Cup, how the German CB's were suspect to fast counter attacks. Worth remembering Hummels wasn't even 100% fit during that WC and he was pretty impervious throughout.

If David Luiz sells for €50m, Hummels at €50m is an absolute steal.

A CB pairing of Hummels and Rojo would be mouthwatering.

David Luiz should not be used as any kind of price comparison.

The Moldy Gowl

Coat22 wrote: »

As the window closes I can't help myself but to come back on here for a moan.

In general I'm not a big fan of the January window. Top clubs rarely do well out of it and with a couple of notable exceptions, United are no different here.

The difference is in previous years they haven't really needed to stick the toe in the water in January (can still remember the puzzlement of most when we signed Evra - "for what? we have Heinze")

However United need 3 - yes 3 - new CBs and a right back before the start of next season. Not to mention a midfielder (and probably a striker) Of those 5, 4 need to be first team regulars so it seems to me that leaving it all until the summer is a huge risk and guaranteed to fail.

What really gets me is seeing Arsenal, City and (probably) Chelsea all making top quality signing while United sit around and wait for the summer.

Ed better have a team scurrying away in the background getting all these deals lined up for early June or we'll all be having panic attacks again next August when it'll already be too late.

Ammmm hate to break it to you. All those teams you mention haven't bought top quality signings.

Bony for 30 million. No thanks.

You could argue bought utd too quality in the summer. Blind, di Maria, shaw were one of the best in their leagues last season. Not to mention falcao.
Arsenal signed sanchez, Chelsea, fabregas.


It would be so stupid to buy 5 first team players in January, add the 6 from the summer and it's a brand new team. Madness.

yabadabado

No point buying players for the sake of it.if LVG main targets aren't available now theres no point buying stop gap players .The squad is so unbalanced it is going take another huge summer to get things going in the right direction.

paulbok

TheDoc wrote: »

Not really understanding people not rating Hummels.

If David Luiz sells for €50m, Hummels at €50m is an absolute steal.

A CB pairing of Hummels and Rojo would be mouthwatering.

Agreed.

There is a major shortage of world class CB's out their so to think we can go and sign 2 or 3 of them in one or two windows isn't going to happen (cost, availabliity, competition etc). You are not going to sign a CB of that standard for anything less than £30M so €50M is't a bad price if you can get Hummels for that. With the current strength of the pound over the euro, even more so.

We need a proven player that will hopefully work from day 1, not young players with potential (Fergie went down that road with PJ & CS and it hasn't worked out).

Coat22

Quandary wrote: »

While they might not be world beaters, Smalling, Jones and Evans are no where near as bad as many would like to think. One (two if we persist with this 3 at the back cack) of the above 3 should be able to form a partnership with Rojo (who is currently by far our best central defender).

I can't believe I'm still seeing people stick up for these 3. Yes they are bad as many would like to think. Maybe "bad" is not the word but they are not of the quality of a side hoping to compete in the CL and with visions of competing for the title. They are, like Brown and O'Shea (both of whom are superior to Evans - God knows how he was kept and they were let go) about he level of the Sunderlands of this world. They'll move somewhere like that, do a decent job and everyone will wonder why United sold them but the fact is they are not cut out for a top half, never mind a top 4 side.

Agree that the talent may not be available to get the very best players in January but surely we should be looking at improving on what we have. If Arsenal can find a decent centre half then United should be capable of that too. Small steps to completing the jigsaw rather than trying to find all the pieces in a panic in July/August.

bucketybuck

I don't think we need to buy this window, any competent manager should be able to take that existing squad into top four.

I am surprised though that despite playing a useless winger at right back all season we aren't going to strengthen that area, and despite the manager having so little faith in his defenders that he effectively neuters the entire shape of the team to compensate, that he isn't going to strengthen that area either.

TheDoc

Will I Amnt wrote: »

David Luiz should not be used as any kind of price comparison.

Tell that to football chairmen and owners of the world, who will probably point to it everytime a club come into negotiations for their player.


Is it just me, or does Chelsea in recent windows, seem to be getting serious good value for money. I remember when they first came on the scene they paid OTT prices for mediocre players, but in the last few windows they seem to be getting really good quality at really good prices.

I can only assume when a club sees Chelsea at the door, they go into the same bracket as us (ie. add about 10m to price), but they seem to have made some shrewd buys for some very decent prices.

Granted I'm not overly interested in what the clubs pays in certain respects, Chelsea seem to rarely miss out on what they want.

Coat22

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ammmm hate to break it to you. All those teams you mention haven't bought top quality signings.

Bony for 30 million. No thanks.

You could argue bought utd too quality in the summer. Blind, di Maria, shaw were one of the best in their leagues last season. Not to mention falcao.
Arsenal signed sanchez, Chelsea, fabregas.


It would be so stupid to buy 5 first team players in January, add the 6 from the summer and it's a brand new team. Madness.

Well try reading my post again:

1. I never said they were top quality signings but they are good players who will address problems their respective teams have. City need a Striker, the sign the best one outside of the top 4 or 5 clubs. Arsenal need a CB they sign Paulista, who would certainly improve United's side. Chelsea want a winger so they go after Cuadrado now rather than wait until the summer.

2. I never said sign 5 players in January, that's just stupid talk. What I said was we'll need at least 5 before the start of next season so leaving the recruitment of all 5 until the summer is a huge risk which will almost certainly blow up in their face. United have to make some big decisions on contracts in the summer so to leave all that until they sign new players seems to me to be a hugely risky strategy. They should be looking to add some strength to the squad this window, doesn't have to be a Hummels or a Strootman but surely there are vastly better CBs out there than Evans/Smalling/Jones who could be added and bedded in over the coming months even if long term they end up as back up to the eventual CB pairing.

RobertKK

I wouldn't mind De Bruyne if it led to a 4-3-3 formation.

bangkok

don't get the berba love at all, I never really took to him. Big games he used to disappear. 1 goal in 3 season's of the champions league summed him up for me

ericzeking

TheDoc wrote: »

Tell that to football chairmen and owners of the world, who will probably point to it everytime a club come into negotiations for their player.


Is it just me, or does Chelsea in recent windows, seem to be getting serious good value for money. I remember when they first came on the scene they paid OTT prices for mediocre players, but in the last few windows they seem to be getting really good quality at really good prices.

I can only assume when a club sees Chelsea at the door, they go into the same bracket as us (ie. add about 10m to price), but they seem to have made some shrewd buys for some very decent prices.

Granted I'm not overly interested in what the clubs pays in certain respects, Chelsea seem to rarely miss out on what they want.

True that....it'd be interesting to see the full facts of what goes on in each individual deal to get the public price down....Red Roman and his Russian oligarch ilk aint exactly reknowned for their above board financial dealings...I mean, one doesn't become a billionaire in their 30's without taking the odd swerve here and there.

Will I Amnt

TheDoc wrote: »

Tell that to football chairmen and owners of the world, who will probably point to it everytime a club come into negotiations for their player.

I'd imagine that's the first thing they are told if they bring it up

RobertKK

bangkok wrote: »

don't get the berba love at all, I never really took to him. Big games he used to disappear. 1 goal in 3 season's of the champions league summed him up for me

Yeah same here.

Coat22

RobertKK wrote: »

Yeah same here.

And me - huge disappointment for me. I thought he would really be a big success at United but he was a bit of a let down.

Undoubtedly hugely talented (so was Veron) but just didn't cut it at United.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

don't get the berba love at all, I never really took to him. Big games he used to disappear. 1 goal in 3 season's of the champions league summed him up for me

Probably best to summarise Berbatov as I could definitely go on a massive tangent here.

Berbatov signed by Ferguson assuming he could play behind Rooney. Transpired his best position was no.9 leading the line. Ferguson conceeds he made mistake utilizing Berbatov for large portion of his stay.

Berbatov was frequently dropped in big games, as Ferguson played a 4-5-1 and wanted someone to run the channels and stretch the opp. defence, which Berbatov didn't do.

Berbatov frequently dropped in favour of Chico towards the end. Ferguson had claimed how he had a vision for a new style, which would be a fast high energy team, build around technique and pace. Berbatov didn't tick the pace box, and subsequently was frequently dropped, including the CL final which was essentially the last straw.

I think the love for Berbatov was that he was our own Zlatan, our Bergkamp. Always spoke proffesionally and never moaned publicly when being benched for sub par options, and constantly treaded the line of " ready when called upon".

I don't think that could have been personified better then his 20 goal tally in the league in the absence of an injured Rooney, which helped the team win the league.

In a game every increasing of "pace over technique" where strikers either need to be big an powerful, or quick and like lightning, Berbatov was a beautiful player in his own genre. Little pace to burn, his vision and technique were imo unrivaled at the time in the league.

He was the Seve of the Premier League at his peak. Shouting at team mates for not playing the impossible pass, but giving out because he knew he could do it if he was on the ball.

The irony is that he was sold as Ferguson tried to build a quick attacking team not obsessed with possession. He would be utterly marvelous playing in an LVG side. Distinctly lacking in our front play is RVP or Falcao taking the ball and playing little balls around the corner, or bringing the midfielders into play quickly. He was brilliant at it.

Although I'm biased... he's my favourite United player to play as long as I've been mentally capable enough to understand football. Right longside Schmeichel. A poster boy for all of us who never had pace, but brains to burn on a football pitch.

(ended up a tangent, you can't summarise him)

bangkok

the moment fergie told berba he didn't make the squad for champions league final v Barcelona at wembley

The Moldy Gowl

God dammit doc.

Gonna have to buy him on FIFA tonight after that.

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

the moment fergie told berba he didn't make the squad for champions league final v Barcelona at wembley

Thanks Geoff

Backstreet Moyes

RobertKK wrote: »

I wouldn't mind De Bruyne if it led to a 4-3-3 formation.

We can't move to 4-3-3 with our striking options. To do so we need to offload RVP and Mata. I think Falcao or Rooney would perform really well in it.

---

Falcao

---

---

Bale

---

Di Maria

---

Giggsy11

bangkok wrote: »

the moment fergie told berba he didn't make the squad for champions league final v Barcelona at wembley

The moment that led to Fergi choosing Owen for Champions league finals.

bangkok

Giggsy11 wrote: »

The moment that led to Fergi choosing Owen for Champions league finals.

no

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

no

It paints exactly as much of a narrative of your picture.

Pro. F

sugarman wrote: »

I think united should consider a cheeky low ball bid for garay, decent centre back with plenty of experience and already has a good partnership with rojo playing for the national team.

Zenit would prob be happy enough to offload any big earners due to the economic situation there. I'd imagine they're paying up to double his initial salary with exchange rates as poor as they are.

Just a thought.

More than decent imo. Hard to know how difficult it would be to get him though, Russian football is weird when it comes to transfers.

bangkok

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

It paints exactly as much of a narrative of your picture.

no, that was before the Liverpool game...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/6423932/Liverpool-v-Manchester-United-Sir-Alex-Ferguson-backs-Michael-Owen-to-make-mark.html

also you should note, fergie is wearing a hat to keep himself warm, owen is wearing extra training top, my pic was the actual moment berba was dropped from the squad

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

the moment fergie told berba

Giggsy11 wrote: »

The moment that led to Fergi choosing Owen

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

It paints exactly as much of a narrative of your picture.

Those two things are not the same.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

my pic was the actual moment berba was dropped from the squad

How do you know this?

Johner

I think the price tag is what puts people off Berbatov when remembering him and the fact he doesn't run around like a Tevez or a Suarez. He actually had a decent scoring record. I watched Berbatov with a Fulham supporting friend a few years back at Craven Cottage against Newcastle and he's one of the best players I have seen live, he played in behind the striker that day and his movement and touch were a joy to watch.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

How do you know this?

that pic was taken at Wembley day before the final, after that conversation took place, even in the picture, you can see the disappointment in berba's face, he had just been told he didn't make the squad for the final. After that as the training continued he was totally lifeless, like the life was sucked out of him, he just wanted to get the hell out of there.