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Britian's poorest going hungry: Are we heading the same way?

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    #452
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No the parents wouldn't worry but as an academic I would worry that someone got an unfair advantage over me. There are people who get these advantages and get into college and drop out because they're not good enough. It happens in science all the time.

    I would have thought the drop out rate across the social spectrum would be high for a variety of reasons, some but not all related to intelligence. It also happens across all disciplines.

    I also recall a study that drop outs were higher in IT's than in universities, which would seem to counter your argument.


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    #453
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    And I presume by this you mean get rid of private schools?
    Based on the previous thread that you started on the topic.

    No I think all schools should be fee paying.


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    #454
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Purekino tm wrote: »
    There is a certain amount of points you need to get a course, get those points. Stop bitching about some other kid who can afford grinds.

    Well duh. How does a kid whose parents can afford a better teacher pupil ratio not have an advantage in getting these points?


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    #455
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,911 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Sorry but that's a bit offensive. It's one thing to say the best schools offer no advantage but it's quite another to imply only those who can afford them value education.

    Where did I say that? I was simply making the point that there is a higher emphasis on a value of education depending on where you are from, its nothing to do with people being able to afford a better education its that it simply is not something some people from a lower social class put value on. However there are then also people from that social class who do value it and will push their children to do better for themselves.


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    #456
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well duh. How does a kid whose parents can afford a better teacher pupil ratio not have an advantage in getting these points?

    Some will go into debt to provide their kids with costly grinds. You'll surely agree that some parents value education over others. Surely?


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    #457
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Some will go into debt to provide their kids with costly grinds. You'll surely agree that some parents value education over others. Surely?
    Oh yes they do but that's independent of their ability to afford a private school.


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    #458
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Oh yes they do but that's independent of their ability to afford a private school.

    Private schools aren't that expensive. Really. And quite a few perform quite badly in the league tables. Whereas the outstanding schools are the Gael colaiste, which are free. Although, they may be considered elitist by some, they are free.


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    #459
    sh1tstirrer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    OK, so dole is just under 10,000 in the year, plus maybe another 10,000 for other benefits. Meanwhile keeping a prisoner in jail for a year costs 70,000. Who's paying for that?

    It costs almost 95,000 a year to keep a prisoner in jail.


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    #460
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No I think all schools should be fee paying.
    ????????


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    #461
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    ????????

    Thanks for your input.


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    #462
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Thanks for your input.
    It's sad to see you post comments like this, given that I've had a reasonable discussion with you on this issue in the past.


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    #463
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    It's sad to see you post comments like this, given that I've had a reasonable discussion with you on this issue in the past.

    Well then stop using ?????. I think that all schools should charge some fees on top of government funding.


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    #464
    sh1tstirrer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭sh1tstirrer


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well then stop using ?????. I think that all schools should charge some fees on top of government funding.

    Let me guess you have no school going children.


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    #465
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Well then stop using ?????. I think that all schools should charge some fees on top of government funding.
    Isn't that how private schools operate in this country as it is?
    Partial state funding through teachers salaries on top of schools fees.

    The reason for my "??????" post was I thought you were being sarcastic.
    As I would have put you down as the last person that would want to bring in school fees.


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    #466
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Its not determined by your parents salary, the job you get depends on the work ethic taught to you by your parents, whether they put a value on education which both leads to how you did in school and college which determines your ultimate career, it has absolutely zero connection to the salary of your parents
    And yet study after study shows a correlation between salaries over generations in families. So your "zero connection" is flat out wrong, but again a convenient theory for the adherents of the Thatcher "no such thing as class" diversionary tactic.


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    #467
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Purekino tm wrote: »
    There is a certain amount of points you need to get a course, get those points. Stop bitching about some other kid who can afford grinds.
    Unless you are claiming grinds and more expensive private education confer no advantage, this post is a complete waste of electrons. If two kids are equally intelligent and one gets more and better education then give a guess who will get into uni more easily.


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    #468
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    smcgiff wrote: »
    Private schools aren't that expensive. Really.
    Correct, for rich people they aren't. That's the whole point.
    Do you think a family on the dole can send their kid to one if they really really want the best for their child or, OMG, will they not be allowed to as they're skint?


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    #469
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Wamsung wrote: »
    Did you know that there is a correlation between having a moustache and heart disease?

    Correlation does not imply causation.

    Perhaps the reason the offspring of wealthy parents become wealthy is because they inherit their intelligence and have good habits passed on, are fed healthy meals etc. You are jumping to conclusions.
    How Victorian of you. All about good breeding isn't it. Tell us then if an adopted Romanian baby is likely to earn an Irish or a Romanian wage when he grows up. This should be a good laugh...


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    #470
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Wamsung wrote: »
    Did you know that there is a correlation between having a moustache and heart disease?

    Correlation does not imply causation.

    Perhaps the reason the offspring of wealthy parents become wealthy is because they inherit their intelligence and have good habits passed on, are fed healthy meals etc. You are jumping to conclusions.

    Passed on their intelligence? Absolute garbage.


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    #471
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Correct, for rich people they aren't. That's the whole point.
    Do you think a family on the dole can send their kid to one if they really really want the best for their child or, OMG, will they not be allowed to as they're skint?

    Rich???

    It is about 3k per year. The people sending their kids are not all rich. It is about priorities.


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    #472
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Wamsung wrote: »
    Did you know that there is a correlation between having a moustache and heart disease?

    Correlation does not imply causation.

    Perhaps the reason the offspring of wealthy parents become wealthy is because they inherit their intelligence and have good habits passed on, are fed healthy meals etc. You are jumping to conclusions.

    This is it.

    Middle class families with professionals at parents rear more successful children as they rear them properly.

    Simple as that really.


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    #473
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Wamsung wrote: »
    So you don't think intelligence is inherited at all?

    I most certainly don't think those who are born into money are automatically intelligent.


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    #474
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Wamsung wrote: »
    Depends on the country the child lives in Dan, how that baby fares will likely be highly effected by it's intelligence, the habits it's parents instilled, diet etc.

    But we're talking about Ireland Dan, in Ireland the wealth of parents is not a necessity to become wealthy or even very important. Work ethic, diet, open mindedness, intelligence etc are more important in my opinion that whether your parents are rich or not.
    So Wam, you are also claiming that grinds, private schooling, not having to work to support yourself etc have no effect on quality of education? Makes you wonder why the rich bother spending so much on these doesn't it Wam when it apparently makes no difference.


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    #475
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    If I'm doing the same test as someone and competing for the same college place how is it not my business if someone has an advantage? The only advantage should be intelligence. Standardise the schools and that will start happening.

    Yeah, let's make our best schools worse. That will teach 'em.


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    #476
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So Wam, you are also claiming that grinds, private schooling, not having to work to support yourself etc have no effect on quality of education? Makes you wonder why the rich bother spending so much on these doesn't it Wam when it apparently makes no difference.

    Bingo. Of course it makes a huge difference.


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    #477
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Robroy36 wrote: »
    Rich???

    It is about 3k per year. The people sending their kids are not all rich. It is about priorities.
    Admit it. 3k was the cheapest you could find and now you're deliberately pretending it's the average.
    Now for your next trick, use your accountancy wizardry to magic up 3-6k per year out of a 10k dole.


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    #478
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Passed on their intelligence? Absolute garbage.

    People who go to specialist international musical schools more often than not have parents who themselves earn their living from music. I suppose having passed on these musical genes the kids have an unearned advantage.... The only way to stop this of course is ....gene therapy or some whacky idea.


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    #479
    Robroy36
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Robroy36


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Makes you wonder why the rich bother spending so much on these doesn't it Wam when it apparently makes no difference.

    Rich people and normal run of the mill middle class families.


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    #480
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Wamsung wrote: »
    Most pupils in secondary school dom'the have to work to support themselves. The average Irish student is privileged.
    Only one point you want to answer I see Wam. Do you not consider university to be part of an education?


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    #481
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,911 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So Wam, you are also claiming that grinds, private schooling, not having to work to support yourself etc have no effect on quality of education? Makes you wonder why the rich bother spending so much on these doesn't it Wam when it apparently makes no difference.

    You have some almighty chip on your shoulder


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