Belvedere Students Criticised for Sleepout

Montroseee

This has to do with social class. The author is quite clearly green-eyed and begrudges those with enough disposable income to send their sons' to a top private school.

Venus In Furs

Montroseee wrote: »

This has to do with social class. The author is quite clearly green-eyed and begrudges those with enough disposable income to send their sons' to a top private school.

Seems like she's middle-class herself and self loathing, wishing she had a "grittier"/"edgier", more "real" upbringing... the way I wished that but got over it by 19/20.

Berserker

Montroseee wrote: »

This has to do with social class. The author is quite clearly green-eyed and begrudges those with enough disposable income to send their sons' to a top private school.

Belvo has some non fee paying students too but I agree that is pure begrudgery. They have been doing the sleepout for decades and will continue to do it for many decades to come.

weldoninhio

I don't see how Kodaline singing, or the Edge turning up to hang out with some kids is going to help the homeless massively.

It seems like a kick in the teeth to homeless too. I have a home, but I'm staying out for a night or two.

sabat

https://twitter.com/RositaBoland/status/547343118014898176

I walked past the BoI about half an hour ago and there's about an equal number of students and "regular" homeless people (maybe 6 of each) all bunked down side by side together sharing the same space and sleeping materials...
I think Ms Boland was probably walking to work hungover with a deadline looming and zero ideas in her head so she just had a snarky pop at the first thing she saw.

goose2005

tritium wrote: »

Looks to me at least like the Irish times displaying its *ahem* quality again. Funny how for Rosita homelessness is now a crisis-when did that happen,did the numbers suddenly rise or has this been at crisis levels for a number of years? Tbh I'd be more concerned that there's so little resources to address many of the underlying issues that led to homelessness- domestic violence, addiction, mental illness and the rest, than that a group of kids are trying to help out. I can't help but wonder if the perceived social demographic of the students hasn't influenced her to write this piece...

It's pretty funny (not really) that everyone is all of a sudden noticing how bad homelessness is. We had a Homeless Summit on December 4th!! where were all these people in August, when there was time to plan? Will we be having a Snow Summit on January 5th, trying to scrape together cash to get a snowplough off the Swedes?

This is not what actual homeless people look like, nor how homeless people live.

Really? I've worked with Simon. Actual homeless people are generally pretty normal. They fiddle with their phones and eat chocolate too.

Rosita wrote a book called Sea Legs: Hitch-hiking the Coast of Ireland Alone. How dare she hitch-hike for recreation, without regard for those who hitch-hike out of necessity!

P_1

Clickbait article which has appeared to have had the desired effect...

bob50

To me those Belverdere lads are great in what they do They are not out to patronise the homless, these boys raise great money for Peter mcverry trust. and i think they are really understanding of their plight. It must me hard for them to " sleep rough" when they have all the mod cons at home

Keep up the good work lads #

dublinman1990

I do think the guys at Belvedere do a amazing amount of work in highlighting homelessness for the less fortunate by doing this with a sleepover every single year.

They really have a real sense of humanity that is both kind and incredibly generous. A Happy Christmas to all of them at Belvedere.

The One Doctor

Looks like the IT is going the way of the Indo.

Pity.

shalalala

I look after kids for their debs and graduations. Year after year the belvedere lads are the most polite and down to earth and credit where credit is due they raise a lot in a non threatening way and highlight a problem at a time of year when people are feeling most generous.

jack presley

The One Doctor wrote: »

Looks like the IT is going the way of the Indo.

Pity.

Well to be fair we haven't heard Rosanna Davison's spin on it yet so they're not quite there yet.

Jawgap

Pure tokenism. This year it seems to have attracted an even more useless bunch of celebrity hangers-on.

If they really want to help the homeless, then at least open the school over the Christmas break and allow it to be used to help people on the streets.

Or.......go to a 'normal' school and have Mummy and Daddy donate the fees to a homeless charity of their choice.

mikemac1

Jawgap wrote: »

Pure tokenism. This year it seems to have attracted an even more useless bunch of celebrity hangers-on.

If they really want to help the homeless, then at least open the school over the Christmas break and allow it to be used to help people on the streets.

Or.......go to a 'normal' school and have Mummy and Daddy donate the fees to a homeless charity of their choice.

It's not all they do. The lads from the school can often be seen on O'Connell Bridge between 8am - 9am giving out hot drinks and sandwiches.

They've been involved in this area for years and working quietly before every columnist hack in the papers started writing about it and screaming for others to do more

Jawgap

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's not all they do. The lads from the school can often be seen on O'Connell Bridge between 8am - 9am giving out hot drinks and sandwiches.

They've been involved in this area for years and working quietly before every columnist hack in the papers started writing about it and screaming for others to do more

Well done them. Why O'Connell Bridge? If the want to PM me I can give them a list of areas where rough sleeping is much more prevalent, just a bit more low profile.......

Instead of 36 hours at Christmas why don't they do one hour a week say helping to clean in some of the hostels, or helping prepare food - maybe some of the older lads can help those involved with advocacy work? Or is that type of 'background' work lacking in glamour?

Perhaps the school could help anchor families by providing more than the token SDP bursary places they currently provide to the children of families who get back into some form or permanent accommodation?

And perhaps even during the next cold spell they could open up their gym to provide some respite and temporary sleeping accommodation to help get people off the streets during the worst of the weather?

Littlekittylou

This happens with everything. The shoebox collection or any volunteering.

Una Mullaly was NOT sleeping out that night was she nor was she doing anything else. It's a reaction to her own inaction. She sees someone at least trying to do something however imperfectly and realizes she is not.

Good lord there is always one naysayer for all good deeds.

Whatever about the results the good intention is there at least. It's cold and certainly not like true homelessness but certainly not the ritz.

If you are going to do something you have to start somewhere. And starting somewhere no matter how small is better than not doing anything.

Well done to those students.

What a nasty piece to write. It's activities like this that we need to keep their spirits UP for not bring them down. I do hope those students keep their spirits up about it. I am sure they will. It's what it is half about really keep trying to do something ANYTHING even though you know it might not accomplish everything and might be very small because it's better than doing nothing.

Fair play to those young people. I hope someone tells them to keep it up and they have people to rally round keep their spirits up!Never let them get you down! They are DOING something go THEM!

TheBeardedLady

What a horrible, mean-spirited article. Bah feck in' humbug times infinity.

mikemac1

Jawgap wrote: »

Well done them. Why O'Connell Bridge? If the want to PM me I can give them a list of areas where rough sleeping is much more prevalent, just a bit more low profile.......

I said from 8am - 9am. By that time people are awake and you will find people begging on the bridge.

The students are on the bridge as that's where people are. If they were out at 6am they would be somewhere else

So so cyncial to imply the lads are on O'Connell Bridge just so they get seen!

Jawgap

mikemac1 wrote: »

I said from 8am - 9am. By that time people are awake and you will find people begging on the bridge.

The students are on the bridge as that's where people are. If they were out at 6am they would be somewhere else

So so cyncial to imply the lads are on O'Connell Bridge just so they get seen!

Again, if they want to actually intervene in a meaningful way there is so much more they could do - why not, for example, go help from 7 until 8? And if you think O'Connell Bridge is where homeless people congregate in any significant numbers you don't know the city, but as I said it's a place that gets a lot of footfall.

When you boil it back, they are sitting around, rattling buckets to get other people to donate so they can give other people's money to charity. Which is great in as far as it goes - let's not build it up to be any more than that.

Aside from the SDP kids, the rest will return to their comfortable existence to regale friends and family over the Christmas break about their 'time' on the streets.

As I've already pointed out there is tons more they could do with the time committed to this publicity stunt and they could be much more interventionist, and make a meaningful difference in people's lives.

mountaingoats

Horrible article based purely around perceived classism and bandwagon jumping.
I would say if anything its a lazy and selfish effort to pick on an "easy" target of well off kids which in turn is possibly doing more damage to the very real problem of homelessness by diminishing it into an effort to get some clicks.

I went to a normal non-fee paying school but would have been delighted to have been pushed to do something like this and other social efforts.

It seems like Belvedere appears to be quite a nice school which tries to push the responsibility of being in a more comfortable financial position rather than just benefits.

No chance this article would have been written if school was in a more deprived area.

One eyed Jack

Jawgap wrote: »

Again, if they want to actually intervene in a meaningful way there is so much more they could do - why not, for example, go help from 7 until 8? And if you think O'Connell Bridge is where homeless people congregate in any significant numbers you don't know the city, but as I said it's a place that gets a lot of footfall.

When you boil it back, they are sitting around, rattling buckets to get other people to donate so they can give other people's money to charity. Which is great in as far as it goes - let's not build it up to be any more than that.

Aside from the SDP kids, the rest will return to their comfortable existence to regale friends and family over the Christmas break about their 'time' on the streets.

As I've already pointed out there is tons more they could do with the time committed to this publicity stunt and they could be much more interventionist, and make a meaningful difference in people's lives.

Or, they could simply do nothing and help nobody.

They're raising money for homeless charities and they're learning social responsibility, I think it's a fantastic idea and I think it's great to see these young people have been doing this for the last 30 years and will still be doing it when all the media attention around homelessness has died down.

If the journalist could have taken away any message from seeing the lads bunking down with homeless people, it's that anyone can become homeless, regardless of their background or their upbringing.

mikemac1

Jawgap wrote: »

Again, if they want to actually intervene in a meaningful way there is so much more they could do - why not, for example, go help from 7 until 8?

Sure why stop there, the lads should be out at 6am every morning so.

They are students trying to volunteer while there are staff on salaries paid to work in this area. If there are gaps in services it's not down to volunteers

Jawgap

mikemac1 wrote: »

Sure why stop there, the lads should be out at 6am every morning so.

They are students trying to volunteer while there are staff on salaries paid to work in this area. If there are gaps in services it's not down to volunteers

No, I'm pointing out that they've made a 36 hour commitment (fair play to them) - that 36 hour commitment could be spread through out the year (perhaps an hour or so a week during term time) to help a bit closer to the coalface.

The lads aren't 'volunteering' - they are fund raising (again, fair play to them, but let's not elevate it to more than it is).

And again, if you think that homeless services are run be salaried staff you are mis-informed. Core services are run by paid staff but a lot of 'add-on' stuff is provided by volunteers who give freely of their time (anything from two hours a month upwards).

And maybe the State would have a bit more to spend on preventing and remedying homelessness, as well as helping those who find themselves in that position, if they weren't pumping €100m + per year into private fee paying schools........

ProfessorPlum

Jawgap wrote: »

Again, if they want to actually intervene in a meaningful way there is so much more they could do - why not, for example, go help from 7 until 8? And if you think O'Connell Bridge is where homeless people congregate in any significant numbers you don't know the city, but as I said it's a place that gets a lot of footfall.

When you boil it back, they are sitting around, rattling buckets to get other people to donate so they can give other people's money to charity. Which is great in as far as it goes - let's not build it up to be any more than that.

Aside from the SDP kids, the rest will return to their comfortable existence to regale friends and family over the Christmas break about their 'time' on the streets.

As I've already pointed out there is tons more they could do with the time committed to this publicity stunt and they could be much more interventionist, and make a meaningful difference in people's lives.

I'm not sure how familiar with the school you are, and to be clear I have absolutely no affiliation with the school, but the lads are involved in community programs on the coal face on a weekly basis throughout the year. It's not advertised, but they do good work, and it's unfair to accuse them of just sitting back rattling buckets. They're kids after all, and they do more than most for those in need.

mountaingoats

To be fair I can understand where you're coming from on these points re volunteering etc.
The debate on private schools and funding though is a wholely different and valid debate to what these lads are doing. Everything a private school does in terms of charities etc shouldn't be slated with that debate.

Jawgap wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out that they've made a 36 hour commitment (fair play to them) - that 36 hour commitment could be spread through out the year (perhaps an hour or so a week during term time) to help a bit closer to the coalface.

The lads aren't 'volunteering' - they are fund raising (again, fair play to them, but let's not elevate it to more than it is).

And again, if you think that homeless services are run be salaried staff you are mis-informed. Core services are run by paid staff but a lot of 'add-on' stuff is provided by volunteers who give freely of their time (anything from two hours a month upwards).

And maybe the State would have a bit more to spend on preventing and remedying homelessness, as well as helping those who find themselves in that position, if they weren't pumping €100m + per year into private fee paying schools........

ProfessorPlum

Jawgap wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out that they've made a 36 hour commitment (fair play to them) - that 36 hour commitment could be spread through out the year (perhaps an hour or so a week during term time) to help a bit closer to the coalface.

The lads aren't 'volunteering' - they are fund raising (again, fair play to them, but let's not elevate it to more than it is).

And again, if you think that homeless services are run be salaried staff you are mis-informed. Core services are run by paid staff but a lot of 'add-on' stuff is provided by volunteers who give freely of their time (anything from two hours a month upwards).

And maybe the State would have a bit more to spend on preventing and remedying homelessness, as well as helping those who find themselves in that position, if they weren't pumping €100m + per year into private fee paying schools........

Not to turn this into a private/public school debate, but were it not for private schools, the government would have even less money to spend on homeless services as they'd be paying in full for these kids education. Oh, and where do you think the money to run the country comes from - yeah, taxes from the likes of these lads parents. Don't get me started.

Palmach

Jawgap wrote: »

No, I'm pointing out that they've made a 36 hour commitment (fair play to them) - that 36 hour commitment could be spread through out the year (perhaps an hour or so a week during term time) to help a bit closer to the coalface.

The lads aren't 'volunteering' - they are fund raising (again, fair play to them, but let's not elevate it to more than it is).

And again, if you think that homeless services are run be salaried staff you are mis-informed. Core services are run by paid staff but a lot of 'add-on' stuff is provided by volunteers who give freely of their time (anything from two hours a month upwards).

And maybe the State would have a bit more to spend on preventing and remedying homelessness, as well as helping those who find themselves in that position, if they weren't pumping €100m + per year into private fee paying schools........

For the record if they scrapped the 100 mil to the likes of Belvo the state would pay more overall as the kids would be going to state schools which attract a capitation grant. Private schools don't. You might also note that the parents sending their kids to places like Belvo, Rock and Gonzaga are paying a large share of the taxes that are part of the 100 million spent on the whole homeless industry in Ireland.

Big Bag of Chips

It seems a lot of people are getting offended on behalf of the homeless people. Have those people gone out to talk with them? Have they asked homeless people if they are as annoyed by the sleepout as the commentators themselves are?

Just wondering.

It is condescending to assume people are being condescending to a group of people who may not see it as condescending at all.

Jawgap

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Not to turn this into a private/public school debate, but were it not for private schools, the government would have even less money to spend on homeless services as they'd be paying in full for these kids education. Oh, and where do you think the money to run the country comes from - yeah, taxes from the likes of these lads parents. Don't get me started.

Well not just these kids parents - all kids parents pay taxes. Even people who are not parents pay taxes.

Given the total enrolment in private schools in 2013 combined with the reduced P/T ratios the kids it is easy to see how they could easily be subsumed into the Free Scheme at no cost to the exchequer.

In any event it's likely private education would continue - discretionary income attributable to private schools is about 80% of the State subvention. If the State subsidy was removed wouldn't the discretionary income simply be mainlined to make up for any deficit?

In other words the State subsidy allows private schools to maintain an extreme (some might even say obscene) level of discretionary income.

Jawgap

Palmach wrote: »

For the record if they scrapped the 100 mil to the likes of Belvo the state would pay more overall as the kids would be going to state schools which attract a capitation grant. Private schools don't. You might also note that the parents sending their kids to places like Belvo, Rock and Gonzaga are paying a large share of the taxes that are part of the 100 million spent on the whole homeless industry in Ireland.

Lovely sentiment........