Most Americans believe torture can be justified - poll

Mesrine65 · 17-12-2014 8:41pm

JaseHeath wrote: »

The only way for torture to be "effective" is if it is the punishment in and of itself, and not an interrogation technique. If the ultimate goal of the torture is to simply inflict pain as a punishment, then it "succeeds". If the ultimate goal of the torture is to glean information, then it will fail.

The only way for torture to be effective is to systematically apply the interrogation methods to the detainees nearest & dearest one by one while the detainee is restrained & forced to endure the ordeal, that way information gleaned can be acted upon once verified :eek:

Grand Moff Tarkin · 17-12-2014 9:04pm

end of the road wrote: »

no . as it may be false information, and it could mean more people i love getting caught up in something else in revenge for torturing the suspect. so i'd rather they get the information via the proper channels

Proper channels? That would be what happens in the dark room with the bad people who do such nasty tasks to keep us all safe.

end of the road · 17-12-2014 9:13pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Proper channels? That would be what happens in the dark room with the bad people who do such nasty tasks to keep us all safe.

we are all ready safe without this form of terrorism

Grand Moff Tarkin · 17-12-2014 9:20pm

end of the road wrote: »

we are all ready safe without this form of terrorism

It is going on all over the world and that my friend is the real reason we are all safe.

end of the road · 17-12-2014 9:31pm

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

It is going on all over the world and that my friend is the real reason we are all safe.

well torture certainly doesn't make us safe, as it can't do, and were safe anyway as we have done nothing to nobody

Son Of A Vidic · 17-12-2014 9:53pm

Tzardine wrote: »

Absolutely it is justifiable.

Torture is never justifiable. Unless you once wore a Hugo Boss uniform with the Deaths Head on your collars.

BuilderPlumber · 17-12-2014 10:43pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Torture is never justifiable. Unless you once wore a Hugo Boss uniform with the Deaths Head on your collars.

What is justified is stopping evil people killing innocent people. I don't approve of torture but basically I could not care less what would happen to evil people like ISIS, al Qaeda, Khmer Rouge, etc. Or stupid neocons in the US or not-able-to-think-for-themselves flash-harries like Blair either. Both feed off each other.

Yellowblackbird · 17-12-2014 11:34pm

Wolf Club wrote: »

that the torture methods used by the CIA were completely ineffective

Some interrogation methods might be ineffective but nobody could hold out against the grasshopper.

The Adversary · 17-12-2014 11:39pm

Tzardine wrote: »

Absolutely it is justifiable.

It's the reality of the world we live in. If the torture of a person leads to the prevention of killing of innocent people then what is the problem.

Nice, law obiding people rarely get tortured.

Possibly the most naive post i've ever read. Sounds like something out of 1984.

The report had information stating 20% of those tortured were innocents.

DarkyHughes · 18-12-2014 12:16am

Tzardine wrote: »

Absolutely it is justifiable.

It's the reality of the world we live in. If the torture of a person leads to the prevention of killing of innocent people then what is the problem.

Nice, law obiding people rarely get tortured.

Birmingham 6, Maguire 7, Guildfor Four, Judith Ward, The 100's wrongfully imprisoned during internment & God knows how many Iraqi's in the last 11 years.

DarkyHughes · 18-12-2014 12:24am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

What is justified is stopping evil people killing innocent people. I don't approve of torture but basically I could not care less what would happen to evil people like ISIS, al Qaeda, Khmer Rouge, etc. Or stupid neocons in the US or not-able-to-think-for-themselves flash-harries like Blair either. Both feed off each other.

How does torture stop that exactly? Most people are interrogated after they've already done the crime

BuilderPlumber · 18-12-2014 12:28am

The Adversary wrote: »

Possibly the most naive post i've ever read. Sounds like something out of 1984.

The report had information stating 20% of those tortured were innocents.

As said, guilty evil people responsible for imposing draconian dresscodes, banning all forms of enjoyment, pretending this is religion and generally using the people for target practice can go to hell and I don't care what they face. They deserve pain. But innocent people just happening to be in the wrong place at the wrong time being picked up and tortured into fake confessions is a different matter.

I remember after 9/11 being wanting to see justice done. Bush had the whole world's sympathy ... until he then sank into poor decisions and the wrong people got hurt. For me, the people who did 9/11 and other such acts should be brought in and interrogated until details of who else they work with/for, who funds them, who else they are tied up with, etc. emerge. Then, go after em all. We also need to repair bridges with nations and support them and respect them and the US needs to address such issues. Today's move with Cuba is an example. Tomorrow, with Iran? We need to see more friendship and respect among nations. The US has acted in good and bad ways in its history. When it is good, it is very very good and when bad, it's horrid. Often, the bad stuff comes from poor foreign policy decisions rushed rather than thought through. The 2nd Iraq war being most obvious.

BuilderPlumber · 18-12-2014 1:29am

DarkyHughes wrote: »

How does torture stop that exactly? Most people are interrogated after they've already done the crime

These creeps in al Qaeda/ISIS are always working with many others who are above them and the shadowy figures financing them too.

JaseBelleVie · 18-12-2014 1:31am

Why are people listening to Grand Moff Tarkin? Sure didn't he torture the sh*t out of Princess Leia? Or at least ordered Darth Vader to do it. Of course he's going to support torture!

raze_them_all_ · 18-12-2014 1:34am

Tzardine wrote: »

Absolutely it is justifiable.

It's the reality of the world we live in. If the torture of a person leads to the prevention of killing of innocent people then what is the problem.

Nice, law obiding people rarely get tortured.

The greatest nazi interrigator during world war two brought his detainees to the cinema and fed them well and he was the most successful out of the reich

DarkyHughes · 18-12-2014 2:17am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

These creeps in al Qaeda/ISIS are always working with many others who are above them and the shadowy figures financing them too.

Like Donald Rumsfield?

Grand Moff Tarkin · 18-12-2014 2:55am

JaseHeath wrote: »

Why are people listening to Grand Moff Tarkin? Sure didn't he torture the sh*t out of Princess Leia? Or at least ordered Darth Vader to do it. Of course he's going to support torture!

The b1tch got the better of the famed mind probe.

braddun · 18-12-2014 4:01am

most americans don't think its justified to torture someone

mandrake04 · 18-12-2014 12:18pm

I think for the likes of the current ISIS or Islamic Terrorists the use of Torture to obtain information is pretty useless as any information divulged is likely to be unreliable. These guys are not too worried about dying so they would hardly give useful information and more likely just give what the integrators wanted to hear.

I do belive that in this case torture should be used as a punishment, I could think of 1001 ways to inflict the most horrible pain on these guys over a considerable period of time for weeks and possibly months until the absolute fear of what misery the next day will bring will be enough to kill them.

A bullet is too kind.

Timberrrrrrrr · 18-12-2014 12:19pm

mandrake04 wrote: »

I think for the likes of the current ISIS or Islamic Terrorists the use of Torture to obtain information is pretty useless as any information divulged is likely to be unreliable. These guys are not too worried about dying so they would hardly give useful information and more likely just give what the integrators wanted to hear.

I do belive that in this case torture should be used as a punishment, I could think of 1001 ways to inflict the most horrible pain on these guys over a considerable period of time for weeks and possibly months until the absolute fear of what misery the next day will bring will be enough to kill them.

A bullet is too kind.

That makes you as bad if not worse than them.

Caliden · 18-12-2014 12:29pm

It doesn't work. On the other hand the 'carrot' does work and has been proven in the past. Stories of German POW's during WW2 giving the English crucial information while being held captive in England.

Treated them all nice, fed, watered and let them play cards. Think about it, if you're being tortured you will say whatever it takes for it to stop.

mandrake04 · 18-12-2014 12:35pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That makes you as bad if not worse than them.

That's right, if you terrorise the Terrorist then I suppose that makes you a terrorist too but sure I think it's well justified.

These scumbags think killing infidels will lead the to Paradise and 72 virgins, I think killing them is a form of vermin control.

Billy86 · 18-12-2014 1:02pm

mandrake04 wrote: »

I think for the likes of the current ISIS or Islamic Terrorists the use of Torture to obtain information is pretty useless as any information divulged is likely to be unreliable. These guys are not too worried about dying so they would hardly give useful information and more likely just give what the integrators wanted to hear.

I do belive that in this case torture should be used as a punishment, I could think of 1001 ways to inflict the most horrible pain on these guys over a considerable period of time for weeks and possibly months until the absolute fear of what misery the next day will bring will be enough to kill them.

A bullet is too kind.

And the guys running ISIS/Al Qaeda/al-Shabaab/etc would absolutely love you for this. You would be doing more for their recruitment numbers than they could ever have dreamed of achieving themselves, just like the US have managed to do over the last 10-12 years.

Timberrrrrrrr · 18-12-2014 1:31pm

mandrake04 wrote: »

That's right, if you terrorise the Terrorist then I suppose that makes you a terrorist too but sure I think it's well justified.

These scumbags think killing infidels will lead the to Paradise and 72 virgins, I think killing them is a form of vermin control.

And how many innocent people would you be willing to kill to stop them killing innocent people?

mandrake04 · 18-12-2014 1:42pm

Billy86 wrote: »

And the guys running ISIS/Al Qaeda/al-Shabaab/etc would absolutely love you for this. You would be doing more for their recruitment numbers than they could ever have dreamed of achieving themselves, just like the US have managed to do over the last 10-12 years.

Do it in secret.

mandrake04 · 18-12-2014 1:44pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And how many innocent people would you be willing to kill to stop them killing innocent people?

If they are caught in the act they are not innocent.

BuilderPlumber · 18-12-2014 1:47pm

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Like Donald Rumsfield?

Yes, him too. Rumsfeld and many like him singlehandedly intervented al Qaeda and these organisations and used them when it suited. Perhaps if the real truth had come out and went to prosecution, people like him would also be in deep trouble and responsible for a lot of evil acts. al Qaeda was a US ally back in 1980s.

With regard to Saddam: Anything evil that Saddam did ironically was encouraged by his 1980s best buddy Rumsfeld. Ironically, when Saddam used WMD against Iran and the Kurds, it was when he was a US ally.

So, to defend the evil past of Rumsfeld and others, the policy was to round up and torture easy ground targets (who were either entirely innocent or very low down the pecking order) and then to frame everything on Saddam (and have Saddam executed quickly as Saddam, who had a legal qualification, could defend himself if it went to court and bring Rumsfeld and many others into the dock as well).

Dravokivich · 18-12-2014 1:53pm

Xterminator wrote: »

Right back at ya - What if the failure to torture leads to the death of innocent people?

Let me get this straight. Going by what the other poster said along the lines of the risk of torturing an innocent to death. You respond by trying to say that torturing this innocent person is the right thing to do, to prevent the deaths of other innocent people?

Billy86 · 18-12-2014 2:42pm

mandrake04 wrote: »

Do it in secret.

Not a reality in this day and age, and when it got out the impact would be bigger again.

ScumLord · 18-12-2014 3:17pm

mandrake04 wrote: »

I do belive that in this case torture should be used as a punishment, I could think of 1001 ways to inflict the most horrible pain on these guys over a considerable period of time for weeks and possibly months until the absolute fear of what misery the next day will bring will be enough to kill them.

So basically you see terrorists as people who can't defend themselves that you can carry out violent acts on. Even if you haven't starting killing your neighbour pets yet you should see a shrink and get that psychopathy looked at before it gets too bad.

Most Americans believe torture can be justified - poll

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