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Month and Week Decided this is getting Real

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    #62
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    But you're happy to remove their freedom to marry. That makes sense.

    I am not removing it as you never had it, I am not saying yes to it when it might remove other peoples.


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    #63
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I was going into the place with my GF, it was chambers in cork if that matters during freshers week everywhere else was packed, the bouncers didn't even try to say I was too drunk just asked if we where together then said no straights tonight.

    Did you stand up for yourself? Either at the time with the bouncer or soon afterwards with management?

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #64
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I was going into the place with my GF, it was chambers in cork if that matters during freshers week everywhere else was packed, the bouncers didn't even try to say I was too drunk just asked if we where together then said no straights tonight.

    I dont believe you to be honest.

    This thread is supposed to be about equal civil marriage. Its fascinating how many different directions you have tried to derail it.

    Last week in AH you showed some real honesty comparing lgbt people to paedophiles.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #65
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    Did you stand up for yourself? Either at the time with the bouncer or soon afterwards with management?

    No as I believe it's the right of the establishment to say who they want in their business


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    #66
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont believe you to be honest.

    This thread is supposed to be about equal civil marriage. Its fascinating how many different directions you have tried to derail it.

    Last week in AH you showed some real honesty comparing lgbt people to paedophiles.

    Distractionary nonsense and white noise, there will be a lot of this over the next few months

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #67
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I am not removing it as you never had it, I am not saying yes to it when it might remove other peoples.

    You have an opportunity to give thousands of gay people now and into the future the chance to marry and you'll deny that out of spite and hate - your words. There is no point trying to convince you when you feel that way. Btw I'm not gay, I'm a married straight person who believes in doing the right thing.


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    #68
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont believe you to be honest.

    This thread is supposed to be about equal civil marriage. Its fascinating how many different directions you have tried to derail it.

    Last week in AH you showed some real honesty comparing lgbt people to paedophiles.

    Want me to describe chambers for you been in there plenty of times my gf at the time liked the place.


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    #69
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    You have an opportunity to give thousands of gay people now and into the future the chance to marry and you'll deny that out of spite and hate - your words. There is no point trying to convince you when you feel that way. Btw I'm not gay, I'm a married straight person who believes in doing the right thing.

    5 years ago yeah no problem definite yes, but sjw have tainted my opinion on anything that has a chance on me losing any more freedom, I will more then likely vote yes are we have already lost those freedom but am weary of losing more.


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    #70
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    5 years ago yeah no problem definite yes, but sjw have tainted my opinion on anything that has a chance on me losing any more freedom, I will more then likely vote yes are we have already lost those freedom but am weary of losing more.

    What freedom will you lose? :confused:


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    #71
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Want me to describe chambers for you been in there plenty of times my gf at the time liked the place.

    Nope. Its not relevant at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #72
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont believe you to be honest.

    This thread is supposed to be about equal civil marriage. Its fascinating how many different directions you have tried to derail it.

    Last week in AH you showed some real honesty comparing lgbt people to paedophiles.

    Paedophiles that have not done anything illegal have no reason to be discriminated against, they have a minority sexual tendency, lbgt is for fighting fighting minority sexual tendencies. Paedophiles need a more vocal platform from bigoted views and face huge discrimination when most don't do anything illegal and want help.

    Lgbt should be fighting for more understanding of the minority sexuality and they don't all do illegal ****.


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    #73
    lyinghere
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭lyinghere


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    I dont believe you to be honest.

    This thread is supposed to be about equal civil marriage. Its fascinating how many different directions you have tried to derail it.

    Last week in AH you showed some real honesty comparing lgbt people to paedophiles.

    I agree this is gone wildly off track. But interestingly this is the sort of thing i want to be prepared for.

    Some things to factor into my thoughts based on this thread alone:

    1) Adoption issues
    2) Businesses right to refuse custom based on their own personal beliefs
    3) Straight people feeling that LGBT campaigning for equal rights is part of an agenda that is being foreced upon straight people
    4) People associating Paedophelia and Homosexuality
    5) Gay double standards refusing straight people admission to gay bars

    I'm not saying they should be relevant to the argument, but they do seem to be things that come up in the conversation.

    Thanks anonyanony for the insight into what we're up against here.


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    #74
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    lyinghere wrote: »
    I agree this is gone wildly off track. But interestingly this is the sort of thing i want to be prepared for.

    Some things to factor into my thoughts based on this thread alone:

    1) Adoption issues
    2) Businesses right to refuse custom based on their own personal beliefs
    3) Straight people feeling that LGBT campaigning for equal rights is part of an agenda that is being foreced upon straight people
    4) People associating Paedophelia and Homosexuality
    5) Gay double standards refusing straight people admission to gay bars

    I'm not saying they should be relevant to the argument, but they do seem to be things that come up in the conversation.

    Thanks anonyanony for the insight into we're up against here.

    just so you know I don't associate paedophilia with homosexuality, I would say the majority of them are straight, just they need to fight for more understanding of there sexual tendencies and they don't all do illegal **** and wan't help, lgbt is the best fit for that voice as they fight for understanding of minority sexualities


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    #75
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Well if the marriage proposal goes through it will mean more after parties and if businesses are forced to do something they don't wan't to it effects how I would chose to vote.

    would you say the same if they objected to inter racial marriage ?


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    #76
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    marienbad wrote: »
    would you say the same if they objected to inter racial marriage ?

    Yes, as I said nowadays there is plenty of businesses that would take the money, the right of a private business to pick their own clientele is something I believe very strongly in.


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    #77
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Yes, as I said nowadays there is plenty of businesses that would take the money, the right of a private business to pick their own clientele is something I believe very strongly in.

    Still not seeing what this has to do with anything...


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    #78
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    anonyanony wrote: »
    the right of a private business to pick their own clientele is something I believe very strongly in.

    but have a limited understanding of, it seems.

    Now, do you have any questions to ask or statements to make relating to the referendum next year?

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #79
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    lyinghere wrote: »
    No. Paedophilia is illegal - and should be.

    Homosexuality is legal.

    We don't want any association.

    But you have effectively made the association now. Something we need to consider even if its a completely unfair association.

    Did you see the paedophile next door, most of them don't do anything illegal they just want to get help and understanding so are not discriminated against if they try to get help.

    If someone went to get help for the thoughts not doing anything illegal, their local community would want them out. Only the acting upon it is illegal, they face bigotry trying to get help before doing anything and cause there is no one listing and then they might end up acting on it.


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    #80
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Did you see the paedophile next door, most of them don't do anything illegal they just want to get help and understanding so are not discriminated against if they try to get help.

    If someone went to get help for the thoughts not doing anything illegal, their local community would want them out. Only the acting upon it is illegal, they face bigotry trying to get help before doing anything and cause there is no one listing and then they might end up acting on it.

    That's an issue for another thread. Most child abuse is carried out by straight people anyway so it's not really appropriate here.


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    #81
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    anonyanony wrote: »
    just so you know I don't associate paedophilia with homosexuality, I would say the majority of them are straight, just they need to fight for more understanding of there sexual tendencies and they don't all do illegal **** and wan't help, lgbt is the best fit for that voice as they fight for understanding of minority sexualities
    So we're just gonna let this one slide......ok then :|


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    #82
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That's an issue for another thread. Most child abuse is carried out by straight people anyway so it's not really appropriate here.

    I never said it was a gay thing, but a minority sexuality thing, kinda the same situation as the T. I agree most paedophiles are straight.

    Child abuse should never be protected, I am saying fighting for the removal of the bigotry of the ones looking for help so they don't ever abuse in the first place.


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    #83
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Aard wrote: »
    So we're just gonna let this one slide......ok then :|

    What's the issue they do fight for rights of minority sexualities.


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    #84
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I never said it was a gay thing, but a minority sexuality thing, kinda the same situation as the T. I agree most paedophiles are straight.

    Child abuse should never be protected, I am saying fighting for the removal of the bigotry of the ones looking for help so they don't abuse.

    I think paedophiles are well able to argue their own rights, they don't need anyone else to fight their cause. The LGBT community have enough to be getting on with.


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    #85
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think paedophiles are well able to argue their own rights, they don't need anyone else to fight their cause. The LGBT community have enough to be getting on with.

    They aren't they face the most bigotry anyone could imagine, most of the lgb community said that of the T too not so long ago.

    You should watch the paedophile next door it was an eye opener.


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    #86
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,118 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    anonyanony wrote: »
    They aren't they face the most bigotry anyone could imagine, most of the lgb community said that of the T too not so long ago.

    You should watch the paedophile next door it was an eye opener.

    Seems to be your cup of tea. Maybe go watch it again instead of trying to derail this thread?


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    #87
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    spurious wrote: »
    Seems to be your cup of tea. Maybe go watch it again instead of trying to derail this thread?

    I didn't bring it up first someone else brought the topic into the thread


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    #88
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    Mod note

    The issue of lgbt campaigning for paedophile rights is wildly off topic. Please stay on topic.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #89
    rochey84
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭rochey84


    Hey Guys,

    OK! This has gotten quite the response and anonyanony has raised the main points that may work against SSM so if no one minds I'm going to attempt to address them each individually:

    Adoption
    This is going to be dealt with BEFORE the referendum. At the moment the cabinet are working on a bill that will afford equal rights to ANYONE who is in a civil partnership but is not married that includes the straight people that may for whatever reason opt for civil partnership instead of civil marriage.

    Infringing on the rights of business owners moral beliefs
    This is a bit of a tricky one to be honest, the reality is that there is already a law in place that bans discrimination on the grounds of ethnic, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc, however we all know that if a place wants to refuse business based on any of the above they can do so by using misdirection i.e. "Oh I'm sorry we wouldn't be able to cater for a party that size", "Oh I'm sorry we're fully booked that day". Only a very silly business would say "Oh I'm sorry I don't like gay people" or "Oh I'm sorry I had a traveler party here before and they wrecked the place" personally I live by the motto that if somewhere doesn't want my money, they aren't getting it and I won't make the law force them to take it, but I know not everyone feels this way.

    I've probably made it all too simplistic but in my mind that's what it boils down to!

    Thanks


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    #90
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    rochey84 wrote: »
    Adoption
    This is going to be dealt with BEFORE the referendum. At the moment the cabinet are working on a bill that will afford equal rights to ANYONE who is in a civil partnership but is not married that includes the straight people that may for whatever reason opt for civil partnership instead of civil marriage.

    The biggest fear is that same sex marriage will introduce adoption by gay people. It needs to be said that gay people can already adopt. There are already gay people raising children.

    This referendum will have no impact on this whatsoever.

    rochey84 wrote: »

    Infringing on the rights of business owners moral beliefs
    This is a bit of a tricky one to be honest, the reality is that there is already a law in place that bans discrimination on the grounds of ethnic, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc,

    These laws won't change either as a result of civil equal marriage passing.


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    #91
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Yes, as I said nowadays there is plenty of businesses that would take the money, the right of a private business to pick their own clientele is something I believe very strongly in.

    Why not scrap all the equality legislation as you are at it ?


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