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Month and Week Decided this is getting Real

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    #32
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I am talking about the after party, if a place has a religious or moral belief not to do a gay marriage party they as a business should be allowed to no, why are your rights more important to the businesses

    That's completely irrelevant to the issue.


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    #33
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I am talking about the after party

    That is not what the referendum is about though, is it?

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #34
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,118 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    The antis haven't pulled out their big guns yet. Expect a flagrant disregard for the truth or legal possibilities and never become complacent. They will get their voters out on the day.


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    #35
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    That is not what the referendum is about though, is it?

    Well if the marriage proposal goes through it will mean more after parties and if businesses are forced to do something they don't wan't to it effects how I would chose to vote.


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    #36
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Plenty of places won't do travelers marriages

    And that is illegal

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #37
    lyinghere
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭lyinghere


    smear campaign with no basis in truth planted near the end of campaign planting serious seeds of doubt in the undecided minds - PENDING!
    spurious wrote: »
    The antis haven't pulled out their big guns yet. Expect a flagrant disregard for the truth or legal possibilities and never become complacent. They will get their voters out on the day.


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    #38
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Well if the marriage proposal goes through it will mean more after parties and if businesses are forced to do something they don't wan't to it effects how I would chose to vote.

    You're OK(ish) with the concept of marriage equality but not a gay after-party?

    I like you :D

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #39
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    You're OK(ish) with the concept of marriage equality but not a gay after-party?

    I like you :D

    I am all for personal rights as long as it does not infringe on others, I don't think the two getting married impacts on anyone other then themselves, but in things after if places are forced to do something then there freedom is being infringed I will say there will be plenty of places wanting to do gay after parties as it will be very good money, but if a place has a moral objection I want that to be respected.


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    #40
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    anonyanony wrote: »
    if a place has a moral objection I want that to be respected.

    OK I do hear what you're saying but that is not on the table next year - it just isn't.

    Unless an organisation can claim a section 37 exemption then they are obliged to provide their stated service(s) to anyone regardless of moral qualms.

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #41
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Ten of Swords wrote: »
    OK I do hear what you're saying but that is not on the table next year - it just isn't.

    Unless an organisation can claim a section 37 exemption then they are obliged to provide their stated service(s) to anyone regardless of moral qualms.

    The fact it's not respected makes me resent the people forcing businesses to do something, there would be plenty if not most that would want the business and makes me want to vote no to spite them, it's the main reason I hate the sjw types they try to remove other peoples freedoms to suit their agenda and I cannot support that.


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    #42
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Well if the marriage proposal goes through it will mean more after parties and if businesses are forced to do something they don't wan't to it effects how I would chose to vote.

    Really now, come on. We're how many years into civil partnerships and has that issue come up once? If the possibility of one or two business owners being put out by the thoughts of a gay reception overruled the rights of thousands of gay people that says a lot about where you stand.


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    #43
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Somebody mentioned upthread about getting the facts/argument straight for dealing with or convincing friends and family. I think this also applies to the many red herring arguments that are thrown around whenever gay anything is mentioned. Be prepared to walk away from arguing with somebody who doesn't want to listen. Some people just have some viewpoint stuck in their heads and will not listen to reason. Some people won't actually know what the referendum is about, but will have an opinion nonetheless. Not all are worth one's time and energy.


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    #44
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,249 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    anonyanony wrote: »
    The fact it's not respected makes me resent the people forcing businesses to do something

    Whether you vote yes, no or not at all the law requiring businesses to treat everyone equally will not change

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #45
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Really now, come on. We're how many years into civil partnerships and has that issue come up once? If the possibility of one or two business owners being put out by the thoughts of a gay reception overruled the rights of thousands of gay people that says a lot about where you stand.

    As I said majority would be happy to take it, forcing the minority to do something they don't want really annoys me, trying to get something by force and removal of personal freedom makes me resent the people pushing it so yes I would punish the thousands that push to remove that freedom of choice.


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    #46
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    As I said majority would be happy to take it, forcing the minority to do something they don't want really annoys me, trying to get something by force and removal of personal freedom makes me resent the people pushing it so yes I would punish the thousands that push to remove that freedom of choice.

    People aren't being asked to vote on removing the rights of business to say no to hosting a gay reception. It's simply about the right to marry. You're looking for reasons to vote no, pretty desperate reasons too. If some business owner objects to single mothers in his establishment or black people should that be respected too?


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    #47
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    People aren't being asked to vote on removing the rights of business to say no to hosting a gay reception. It's simply about the right to marry. You're looking for reasons to vote no, pretty desperate reasons too. If some business owner objects to single mothers in his establishment or black people should that be respected too?

    Yes let the free market decide plenty of places will take their business gladly.


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    #48
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Well if the marriage proposal goes through it will mean more after parties and if businesses are forced to do something they don't wan't to it effects how I would chose to vote.

    Its not going to change anything

    At present businesses cannot discriminate on the basis of civil status. The law wont change this.

    You're introducing irrelevant redundant points here.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #49
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Yes let the free market decide plenty of places will take their business gladly.

    Well thankfully we have laws to prevent that kind of bigotry, laws that won't be changed regarding of the outcome of the referendum.


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    #50
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Its not going to change anything

    At present businesses cannot discriminate on the basis of civil status. The law wont change this.

    The fact they are forced to do something they do want makes me want to spite the group the removed that freedom of choice.

    You don't win respect of people by forcing them to do something they don't want, that just make you hate that group more.


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    #51
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Well thankfully we have laws to prevent that kind of bigotry, laws that won't be changed regarding of the outcome of the referendum.

    I wish more restaurants where allowed to ban babies after 8 but that the only group I would personally stop if I owned that kinda place, but if I setup a place I would not be able to set what clientele I want in my own private business.


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    #52
    lyinghere
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭lyinghere


    So you agree with the people who want to refuse people just because they are gay.

    You disagree with the people who feel it is unfair to be discriminated because they are gay.

    Just think about you life. How would you feel if you were refused something because you were straight.

    You feel the people who are refused just purely because they are gay should be spited for standing up for themselves and trying to become equal. Just try to think about it from the other side.


    anonyanony wrote: »
    The fact they are forced to do something they do want makes me want to spite the group the removed that freedom of choice.

    You don't win respect of people by forcing them to do something they don't want, that just make you hate that group more.


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    #53
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    I wish more restaurants where allowed to ban babies after 8 but that the only group I would personally stop if I owned that kinda place, but if I setup a place I would not be able to set what clientele I want in my own private business.

    A parent at least has the option to leave a child at home, a gay person can't exactly un-gay themselves for a night. If that is your only reason to vote no, to spite the gay community, it's a very immature reason.


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    #54
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    lyinghere wrote: »
    So you agree with the people who want to refuse people just because they are gay.

    You disagree with the people who feel it is unfair to be discriminated because they are gay.

    Just think about you life. How would you feel if you were refused something because you were straight.

    You feel the people who are refused just purely because they are gay should be spited for standing up for themselves and trying to become equal. Just try to think about it from the other side.

    Ireland is not like there are no other options and I have been refused entry to a place for being straight but that's the right of the establishment to me.


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    #55
    Farwijk
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Farwijk


    Hi guys, Dutchman here visiting your country for a few days with my boy who I am married to :) I came across this and I knew I must post here!

    Your country is beautiful despite this rain, and I have to say that I do hope this referendum is passed in Ireland. However, I think that a lot of people here probably believe it will be passed when it may not!

    This story happened yesterday when we were in a part of the country in a town named Westport, we both hugged each other and showed affection while a couple maybe aged +50 sneered at us as they walked past. It was distressing because it doesn't happen where we're from :(

    Anyway (this post accidentally published so editing was required) I hope that this does get passed :) You must keep campaigning and maybe everything will work out well for all of the people ;)

    Good luck!!!


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    #56
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    The fact they are forced to do something they do want makes me want to spite the group the removed that freedom of choice.

    You don't win respect of people by forcing them to do something they don't want, that just make you hate that group more.

    Interesting choice of words there...'hate that group more'

    Do you hate gay people?


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    #57
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    anonyanony wrote: »
    The fact they are forced to do something they do want makes me want to spite the group the removed that freedom of choice.

    You don't win respect of people by forcing them to do something they don't want, that just make you hate that group more.

    I dont know what you want here.

    If you just want to spite lgbt people. Fair enough. Thanks for being honest.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #58
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    Ireland is not like there are no other options and I have been refused entry to a place for being straight but that's the right of the establishment to me.

    Is that what they said to you?

    How did they know you were straight?


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    #59
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    A parent at least has the option to leave a child at home, a gay person can't exactly un-gay themselves for a night. If that is your only reason to vote no, to spite the gay community, it's a very immature reason.

    It would be the only form of protest to me. I guess it's from a lot of things recently where the sjw crowd have been trying to remove so much personal freedoms to suit their agenda that any protest I could do seems like a good option to say I don't like the way they are trying to remove freedoms


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    #60
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    anonyanony wrote: »
    It would be the only form of protest to me. I guess it's from a lot of things recently where the sjw crowd have been trying to remove so much personal freedoms to suit their agenda that any protest I could do seems like a good option to say I don't like the way they are trying to remove freedoms

    But you're happy to remove their freedom to marry. That makes sense.


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    #61
    anonyanony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 481 ✭✭anonyanony


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Is that what they said to you?

    How did they know you were straight?

    I was going into the place with my GF, it was chambers in cork if that matters during freshers week everywhere else was packed, the bouncers didn't even try to say I was too drunk just asked if we where together then said no straights tonight.


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