Stuck chimney flap

dr.fuzzenstein · 03-01-2015 5:47pm

martinr5232 wrote: »

How much was the liner that you ordered ?? is it the twin walled one ??

I have no idea, I just said to the guy to quote me for 7 meters of 150mm insulated flexible pipe. That would be thin, flexible metal tube wrapped in insulation. He said he doesn't know how much that will be and he has to make a few phonecalls on Monday, he did not want to speculate.
I told him to ring me with a price first. He seemed to think that it could cost somewhere between 300-400. That would include a chimney hat, blank for the second pot, flexible liner and all other bits and pieces that I might need.
The thing is, I have brought back a lot of stuff to him that he originally sold me, 3x1meter lengths of solid pipe, 90 degree bend, adaptor and 2x clamps/wall attachments, so I will get credit back for those. All that stuff came to about 150. Normal store policy would be to charge a 15% fee for any returned stock, but he will give me all the money back if I order through him again.
Sound reasonable? Pending final quote, of course.

martinr5232 · 03-01-2015 6:44pm

Thanks for that im intending to fit a stove in the next few weeks thankfully i dont think ill have the same problems as you :-)

dr.fuzzenstein · 03-01-2015 9:44pm

martinr5232 wrote: »

Thanks for that im intending to fit a stove in the next few weeks thankfully i dont think ill have the same problems as you :-)

Only if your chimney was also designed and built by Bloody Stupid Johnson.

As long as you live in a fairly typical, standard house, there should be no problem.
As soon as it's any kind of eccentric, one-off, "designer" or just very old house, everything will be a nightmare.
If you do live in the above (like me), expect nothing to ever fit off the shelf, builders scratching their heads and sucking air through their teeth, everything having to be cut, reversed, re-attached, turned 180 degrees, lengthened, shortened, thickened, made thinner, bend 90 degrees and sometimes to be just completely re-engineered and turned inside out in order to work.
And you will have to design and build your very own, one application only, custom special tools for every single job.

deandean · 03-01-2015 11:50pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Only if your chimney was also designed and built by Bloody Stupid Johnson.
As long as you live in a fairly typical, standard house, there should be no problem.
As soon as it's any kind of eccentric, one-off, "designer" or just very old house, everything will be a nightmare.
If you do live in the above (like me), expect nothing to ever fit off the shelf, builders scratching their heads and sucking air through their teeth, everything having to be cut, reversed, re-attached, turned 180 degrees, lengthened, shortened, thickened, made thinner, bend 90 degrees and sometimes to be just completely re-engineered and turned inside out in order to work.
And you will have to design and build your very own, one application only, custom special tools for every single job.

tell me about it.
for example: the concrete blocks for my house were cast on-site, they are a non standard size.

dr.fuzzenstein · 05-01-2015 11:00pm

OK, 7 meters of insulated flexi pipe ordered with all the requisite bits, i.e. half meter pipe for good looks, connectors and clamps. Will install later in the week before this Arctic cold snap that everyone seems to have been promising for months now...

edit
Oh yes, of course, price. Was told €225 all in and I still get money back for other bits I bought and brought back.

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-01-2015 5:36pm

There has been some movement (literally) in this saga.
I was able to get the flexi pipe down the chimney and past the flap, it was an absolute hoor of a job and consisted of me climbing up onto the chimney, body-slam the pipe down the chimney with all my weight, hope I wouldn't fall off and climb back down again.
I had the fortunate foresight to attach a rope onto the flexi pipe, so I could then haul on the rope from the bottom to bring the pipe further down.
The way this worked, I would ram the pipe into the chimney, forcing it to snake up a bit, when I yanked at the bottom, I took up the slack.
This was a process that was measured in centimetres per hour and essentially took two days. I feel like I went 15 rounds with Mike Tyson, I nearly got stuck in the chimney and I had a car jack fall on my head. Twice. Luckily I was wearing an old cycling helmet.
So, after two solid days of slog, getting bruised, cut and concussed I finally have the pipe where I want it.
Happy days! Simply a matter of attaching the legs to the stove, moving the stove into position and hooking it all up. Simples, right?
Wrong! This is me we're talking about here! Nothing is ever simple, nothing ever fits, there is always a crucial part missing, the tools won't work for my situation, the materials ordered will be the wrong ones or, if all the above is going right, it will be something completely unforeseen.
The very fine and reputable stove manufacturer (Henley) FORGOT TO DRILL A 4TH HOLE FOR ONE OF THE LEGS!!! AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!
So the whole job has ground to a halt again, pending me drilling a hole into the base of the stove and tapping it to accept the bolt that holds the leg. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
Pics and more later, taking a break right now and having some stew.

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-01-2015 10:47pm

So, easy peasy, drill the hole, get the tap in, in and out a few times, made quick work of it, thought I go in there one last time, tap brakes off and is irrevocably stuck in the cast iron, with zero chance of ever getting it out again.
****ing ****er, mother****er, ****ing **** **** **** ****ing bastard mother****ing ****.
Now have to drill 4 holes and tap them, 2 in the foot and 2 more in the bottom of the stove and hope to **** they work and hold.
More days added to this ****ing ****ting **** ****ing nightmare of a project.
Murphy firmly with me on this one, every ****ing little thing that can go wrong has indeed done so.
It is slowly getting to me.

PS:
Anyone got any suggestions how to get a tap out of a hole that is stuck about 5 mm in?

PPS:
Probably will never come out of that agin or will do so much damage, it won't be worth it.
New plan, drill 2 new holes, get tap and die set in Lidl and put in two new screws

shedweller · 11-01-2015 11:05pm

Ah jaysus you got a raw deal there! I'm guessing its an 8 or 10mm tap since its holding up the weight of a stove and a 6mm wouldnt cut the mustard.
You could try a pointy pliers and get the tips between the flanks of the tap to turn it back. If it doesnt move, try a centre punch to the middle of the tap to try free it and use the pliers again.
Failing that try a gas torch on the area to expand the hole a little and try the pliers again.
And lastly, try break up the tap with the centre punch. You may just get enough broken to free the rest.
I dont envy you one bit. Been there done that and its very annoying, to say the least.

DublinDilbert · 11-01-2015 11:09pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So, easy peasy, drill the hole, get the tap in, in and out a few times, made quick work of it, thought I go in there one last time, tap brakes off and is irrevocably stuck in the cast iron, with zero chance of ever getting it out again.
****ing ****er, mother****er, ****ing **** **** **** ****ing bastard mother****ing ****.
Now have to drill 4 holes and tap them, 2 in the foot and 2 more in the bottom of the stove and hope to **** they work and hold.
More days added to this ****ing ****ting **** ****ing nightmare of a project.
Murphy firmly with me on this one, every ****ing little thing that can go wrong has indeed done so.
It is slowly getting to me.

PS:
Anyone got any suggestions how to get a tap out of a hole that is stuck about 5 mm in?

PPS:
Probably will never come out of that agin or will do so much damage, it won't be worth it.
New plan, drill 2 new holes, get tap and die set in Lidl and put in two new screws

God some jobs just go like that, have been there. Tap is hardened steel so won't drill out or an easy out won't work. Sounds like it's too far down to weld something to it.

Best drill two new holes or could try enlarge the hole and see if you can get that tap out.

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-01-2015 11:17pm

Well, on hold for today, gotta be up quarter to 7 and go to work, which feels like a part time job compared to installing this stove.

lostboy75 · 12-01-2015 2:53pm

on a previous post here it was mentioned that the aldi/lidl taps are not that great, that they can break quite easily. that they should be fine in softer material, but not to trust them on harder steel.
while i have a set of them, i mainly use them for cleaning threads, so cant add any more than i heard.

gutteruu · 12-01-2015 4:17pm

lostboy75 wrote: »

on a previous post here it was mentioned that the aldi/lidl taps are not that great, that they can break quite easily. that they should be fine in softer material, but not to trust them on harder steel.
while i have a set of them, i mainly use them for cleaning threads, so cant add any more than i heard.

They are useless. Even with tapping compound, moving very little clockwise before reversing to clear swarf they will still break. If it were me I would drill the hole slightly bigger than the standard size for tapping, as you don't need much thread. All the weight is downwards.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-01-2015 8:16pm

Well, Lidl had tap and die set on sale for €10, so if that will cut two threads into cast iron I am happy. Now let's hope my Black&Decker drill from circa 1974 holds together. Yes, my drill is 40 years old, they sure don't make them like that anymore. Now let's go drilling and cutting threads. Nothing can possibly go wrong!

shedweller · 12-01-2015 9:55pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, Lidl had tap and die set on sale for €10, so if that will cut two threads into cast iron I am happy. Now let's hope my Black&Decker drill from circa 1974 holds together. Yes, my drill is 40 years old, they sure don't make them like that anymore. Now let's go drilling and cutting threads. Nothing can possibly go wrong!

In cast iron they should be ok. Lots of lube (trefolex works great)and a quarter turn forward, quarter turn back. All the way to the bottom of the hole. If you drill the hole a little bigger you could do a half turn.
Did you get the broken tap out?

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-01-2015 11:17pm

So, the broken tap ain't never coming out again.
On the plus side, I was able to cut two new holes, tap them out and cut two corresponding holes into the feet and screw everything together. Stove now standing on its 4 feet, so the project back on course again.
Tomorrow will try to get some high temperature silicone to seal all the pipe bits. Was given cement, but based on previous experience, that stuff is sh*te and will crumble to bits first time you clean the chimney.
First time it looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel. Let's hope that's not an oncoming train .

shedweller · 13-01-2015 12:10am

Light at the end of the chimmney.....??

dr.fuzzenstein · 14-01-2015 3:07pm

Nothing much happening, waiting on a clamp for the top of the chimney to fasten the flexible pipe to the chimney pot.
After that put everything together, put a hat on the chimney and job's a gudd'un! (touches every wooden surface in reach).

Does anyone know where I can get high temperature resistant silicone in Limerick? Not fire cement, I do have that stuff. The stuff I want looks like the silicone you use for bathroom installations, only it's high temperature resistant. It was used to glue together the flue on my wood pellet burner and it's absolutely savage. Had to open a joint on that and it took ages, very strong stuff. In my experience fire cement (I got stuff that comes in a tube) just doesn't come near and if there's any movement in the joints, it immediately crumbles.

martinr5232 · 14-01-2015 3:11pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

Nothing much happening, waiting on a clamp for the top of the chimney to fasten the flexible pipe to the chimney pot. After that put everything together, put a hat on the chimney and job's a gudd'un! (touches every wooden surface in reach).

dr.fuzzenstein wrote:

Does anyone know where I can get high temperature resistant silicone in Limerick? Not fire cement, I do have that stuff. The stuff I want looks like the silicone you use for bathroom installations, only it's high temperature resistant. It was used to glue together the flue on my wood pellet burner and it's absolutely savage. Had to open a joint on that and it took ages, very strong stuff. In my experience fire cement (I got stuff that comes in a tube) just doesn't come near and if there's any movement in the joints, it immediately crumbles.

ive seen high temp tec7 im not sure if thats what your looking for though but if you look in any builder providers that stocks tec7 it might suit.

dr.fuzzenstein · 14-01-2015 3:21pm

martinr5232 wrote: »

ive seen high temp tec7 im not sure if thats what your looking for though but if you look in any builder providers that stocks tec7 it might suit.

Difficult to say, since I'm not sure myself!

If it is heat resistant to 1200c, that would be nice.
When my pellet stove was installed, the flue arrived in several sections. These where not welded or riveted together, the installer used what looked exactly like silicone to seal shower doors together to stick all the sections together.
Of course the stuff he used was high temperature resistant, otherwise you couldn't use it to stick a flue together that gets very hot.
So far I have only tried Irish Wire Products on the Dock Road and Robbin' Bastids (Woodies), but so far no luck.

slimjimmc · 14-01-2015 4:01pm

HeatMerchants have high temp silicon sealant listed on pg 101 of their catalogue.
http://heatmerchants.ie/branches.aspx?id=0&location=limerick

dr.fuzzenstein · 14-01-2015 4:07pm

slimjimmc wrote: »

HeatMerchants have high temp silicon sealant listed on pg 101 of their catalogue.
http://heatmerchants.ie/branches.aspx?id=0&location=limerick

Coolio! Thanks, will check.

deandean · 14-01-2015 4:16pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Does anyone know where I can get high temperature resistant silicone in Limerick? Not fire cement, I do have that stuff. The stuff I want looks like the silicone you use for bathroom installations, only it's high temperature resistant. It was used to glue together the flue on my wood pellet burner and it's absolutely savage. Had to open a joint on that and it took ages, very strong stuff. In my experience fire cement (I got stuff that comes in a tube) just doesn't come near and if there's any movement in the joints, it immediately crumbles.

I'm pretty sure that those high-temperature silicone products are not suitable for solid fuel stove flues. I recall reading that you'll get a most horrible smell from the joint forever as the stuff degrades due to the high temperatures.

There is high-temperature cement rated up to about 1200°C available in tube form but I think it is cement rather than silicone-based.

dr.fuzzenstein · 14-01-2015 4:30pm

deandean wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that those high-temperature silicone products are not suitable for solid fuel stove flues. I recall reading that you'll get a most horrible smell from the joint forever as the stuff degrades due to the high temperatures.

There is high-temperature cement rated up to about 1200°C available in tube form but I think it is cement rather than silicone-based.

I have a tube of that, but it seems to crumble when used with joints that have any movement.
The silicone is used for the flue on my wood pellet burner which stands in my living room, this flue does get plenty hot and there was never any bad smell from it. And 7-8 years later the stuff is as strong as day one.

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-01-2015 9:46pm

This is one thing that is a good example of what sometimes drives me mad in this country. You're trying to do something, you look up how to do it and every single one of the instructions say "yeah, you just need XYZ to do this, you'll get this at every single corner shop in the world". Queue me going to every SINGLE shop in three counties and asking for XYZ and getting nothing but a blank stare and "Jaysus, I've been working in this business for 25 years and I have NEVER heard of XYZ. James, you ever heard of it? Nah, he hasn't. Tell you what, I can give you H".
Of course H is less than useless crap and you wouldn't use it in a cat toilet, but for some reason the ENTIRE country uses H and nothing else can be had. Anywhere. Everyone looks at you as though you've gone mad or have 12 heads on your shoulder.
I am a bit spoilt from Germany where you walk into a shop and ask "do you have XYZ?" and they say "yeah, it's right there in aisle 25-32 in 37 different varieties along with H, G, ABC, NYC, ETC, BLADIBLA, SUPERDOOPER, NICKNACK and 200 other brandnames".
How do people install chimneys in this country? Do they just use sh*te and have it fall apart after a week? Or do they just not seal it at all?
To prove that I am not mad, check this out:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENVIROGRAF-CLEAR-1200-C-FIREPROOF-SILICONE-SEALANT/161559660899?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107083358%26meid%3Dca3938f3ba4f4374aa337d8b0b2f0379%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D310187146269

http://www.redhotglass.net/Cement_and_Sealants/Silicone_Sealant/Envirograf_STOVESEAL_Grey_Sealant_-_310ml_Cartridge/RHG-13-HTSE

http://www.woodburningstovesandflues.co.uk/flue-accessories-high-temperature-sealants-c-70_89_98/envirograf-stoveseal-grey-sealant-p-281

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-01-2015 10:08pm

Unless of course I am really going mad...

Robbie.G · 15-01-2015 10:13pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

This is one thing that is a good example of what sometimes drives me mad in this country. You're trying to do something, you look up how to do it and every single one of the instructions say "yeah, you just need XYZ to do this, you'll get this at every single corner shop in the world". Queue me going to every SINGLE shop in three counties and asking for XYZ and getting nothing but a blank stare and "Jaysus, I've been working in this business for 25 years and I have NEVER heard of XYZ. James, you ever heard of it? Nah, he hasn't. Tell you what, I can give you H".
Of course H is less than useless crap and you wouldn't use it in a cat toilet, but for some reason the ENTIRE country uses H and nothing else can be had. Anywhere. Everyone looks at you as though you've gone mad or have 12 heads on your shoulder.
I am a bit spoilt from Germany where you walk into a shop and ask "do you have XYZ?" and they say "yeah, it's right there in aisle 25-32 in 37 different varieties along with H, G, ABC, NYC, ETC, BLADIBLA, SUPERDOOPER, NICKNACK and 200 other brandnames".
How do people install chimneys in this country? Do they just use sh*te and have it fall apart after a week? Or do they just not seal it at all?
To prove that I am not mad, check this out:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ENVIROGRAF-CLEAR-1200-C-FIREPROOF-SILICONE-SEALANT/161559660899?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107083358%26meid%3Dca3938f3ba4f4374aa337d8b0b2f0379%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D310187146269

http://www.redhotglass.net/Cement_and_Sealants/Silicone_Sealant/Envirograf_STOVESEAL_Grey_Sealant_-_310ml_Cartridge/RHG-13-HTSE

http://www.woodburningstovesandflues.co.uk/flue-accessories-high-temperature-sealants-c-70_89_98/envirograf-stoveseal-grey-sealant-p-281

I don't know where your based or what type of suppliers your trying but up my way I can get high temp silicone/flexible sealer in 2 or 3 plumbing /builders merchants

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-01-2015 10:44pm

Robbie.G wrote: »

I don't know where your based or what type of suppliers your trying but up my way I can get high temp silicone/flexible sealer in 2 or 3 plumbing /builders merchants

Found some that goes to 300 degrees, but that is not enough. The first link in my earlier post is a clear silicone sealant that goes to 1220 degrees. If you know someone in Limerick that does it, I would be very thankful.
I wanted to check with Heiton Buckleys in Limerick today, but they close at 5, just a guy shaking his head as he closed the gate.
Closing at 5. Well well, isn't it well for some? Nice hours if you can get them. I don't know if I'm sufficiently curious to arrange for a longer lunch or earlier finishing time at work to actually manage to get there before closing time.
I tried Irish Wire Products, Woodies, the Co Op and Heat Merchants. The search continues. I am willing to bet body parts that 1200 degree silicone is not available in Limerick.

Robbie.G · 15-01-2015 11:10pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Found some that goes to 300 degrees, but that is not enough. The first link in my earlier post is a clear silicone sealant that goes to 1220 degrees. If you know someone in Limerick that does it, I would be very thankful.
I wanted to check with Heiton Buckleys in Limerick today, but they close at 5, just a guy shaking his head as he closed the gate.
Closing at 5. Well well, isn't it well for some? Nice hours if you can get them. I don't know if I'm sufficiently curious to arrange for a longer lunch or earlier finishing time at work to actually manage to get there before closing time.
I tried Irish Wire Products, Woodies, the Co Op and Heat Merchants. The search continues. I am willing to bet body parts that 1200 degree silicone is not available in Limerick.

Unfortunately I'm at the other end of the country so can't help you with that.Your best bet is to probably buy online

shedweller · 16-01-2015 1:25am

To be honest, i have little faith in buying something like this locally. It certainly does look like the only thing you can get here for that job is not fit for purpose. Go online and buy it and dont look back.
For my car last year i was faced with buying either a new brake caliper or a scrappy one simply because the brake seal was damaged from the garage that serviced my car under warranty. Total vegetables.
So i measured the piston diameter and with a bit of ebay searches i found a place selling the seals. Did the job in half an hour for a tenner. It was only a piece of rubber but could it be done here? Like feck it could!
This country can be so backward at times.
And no Fuzz, you're not going mad!

dr.fuzzenstein · 16-01-2015 9:51am

shedweller wrote: »

To be honest, i have little faith in buying something like this locally. It certainly does look like the only thing you can get here for that job is not fit for purpose. Go online and buy it and dont look back.
For my car last year i was faced with buying either a new brake caliper or a scrappy one simply because the brake seal was damaged from the garage that serviced my car under warranty. Total vegetables.
So i measured the piston diameter and with a bit of ebay searches i found a place selling the seals. Did the job in half an hour for a tenner. It was only a piece of rubber but could it be done here? Like feck it could!
This country can be so backward at times.
And no Fuzz, you're not going mad!

Well, I will try Heiton Bukleys today, so hoping to get off work early. B&Q is also in that area (not holding out any hope there) and maybe a few more plumbers supplies and fireplace shops.
One place I haven't tried is Shamrock Solar in Ennis, they did install the pellet burner and they did use the silicone, so it would stand to reason they have it. Other than that, I'll order online from Kerry Biofuels.
Sidenote on Kerry:
If you need any spare part for a wood pellet burner, those guys are the business! They have helped me out of a jam on many occasions, they have everything in stock and they ship promptly, inexpensively and via courier.
They get full marks from me.

Stuck chimney flap

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