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FA Premier League rights 2016-19

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    #32
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    mikeym wrote: »
    I hope Setanta dont get the 3pm kick offs.

    No one wanted to watch Southampton play Burnley last Saturday and they showed it.

    But then again there wont be much interest from other Broadcasters :(


    I think they have to show each club twice before they get to pick what 3pm kick off they show. This was clearly a quota ticking exercise.


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    #33
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Loughc wrote: »
    I think they have to show each club twice before they get to pick what 3pm kick off they show. This was clearly a quota ticking exercise.
    That does seem like a very likely cause of them showing Southampton/Burnley - it can only be the reason really ... I presume they are trying to get rid of the quota as quick as possible to let them have a free hand in selection after the new year.


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    #34
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    irishfeen wrote: »
    That does seem like a very likely cause of them showing Southampton/Burnley - it can only be the reason really ... I presume they are trying to get rid of the quota as quick as possible to let them have a free hand in selection after the new year.


    Exactly, that way they can pick the matches that matter for CL Places, Title contenders and relegation battles.


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    #35
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    Loughc wrote: »
    Exactly, that way they can pick the matches that matter for CL Places, Title contenders and relegation battles.

    Very few (if any) of which will remain at 3pm. In fact, the only fixtures likely to remain at 3pm are those affecting relegation, and at present Setanta are sacrificing Manchester United and Liverpool games to show teams very likely to feature in games not picked for UK TV later in the season, thereby remaining at 3pm (whereas Manchester United and Liverpool almost certainly will be picked and moved from 3pm) :)

    Oh, and they chose a meaningless fixture over one that had something riding on it on the final day last season - when they still had free reign on choices - so if they have any strategy at all I wouldn't trust it :D


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    #36
    irishfeen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    radiowaves wrote: »
    Very few (if any) of which will remain at 3pm. In fact, the only fixtures likely to remain at 3pm are those affecting relegation, and at present Setanta are sacrificing Manchester United and Liverpool games to show teams very likely to feature in games not picked for UK TV later in the season, thereby remaining at 3pm (whereas Manchester United and Liverpool almost certainly will be picked and moved from 3pm) :)

    Oh, and they chose a meaningless fixture over one that had something riding on it on the final day last season - when they still had free reign on choices - so if they have any strategy at all I wouldn't trust it :D
    You have to remember Sky and BT have quotas to watch too - on a given weekend it will be unlikely that Liverpool, United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal will all be playing away from 3pm. There will almost always be at least one or two available at 3pm.


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    #37
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    I'd imagine the clubs who are playing in Europe will be happy to have the option to play on a Friday, play on a Friday, then the following Tuesday then again on the Saturday then the following Wednesday, whole lot easier for the team. The Friday games would allow them avoid a potential bottle neck with the new international windows of a week. I'd imagine they're also giving themselves of an option of another game in case they are forced to take a winter break for the World Cup or something.


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    #38
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    irishfeen wrote: »
    You have to remember Sky and BT have quotas to watch too - on a given weekend it will be unlikely that Liverpool, United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal will all be playing away from 3pm. There will almost always be at least one or two available at 3pm.

    You have to remember that Sky (much less BT) can play around with their quotas thanks to having a number of packages.

    Of the teams you named, unless their form improves, Liverpool might remain at 3pm but most - if not all - of the weekends on the run-in all of the other teams are extremely likely to be playing away from 3pm.

    Sky know how to use their picks and very rarely, if ever, miss out on an important fixture.


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    #39
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    That won't be an issue in this particular contract, it will be either the final year of the next contract (2019-2022) or the first year or the one after that (2022-2025).


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    #40
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    Clareman wrote: »
    I'd imagine the clubs who are playing in Europe will be happy to have the option to play on a Friday, play on a Friday, then the following Tuesday then again on the Saturday then the following Wednesday, whole lot easier for the team. The Friday games would allow them avoid a potential bottle neck with the new international windows of a week. I'd imagine they're also giving themselves of an option of another game in case they are forced to take a winter break for the World Cup or something.

    Those clubs won't have that option at all!

    If a club is not picked for UK TV then they will still have to play at 3pm on a Saturday.

    Plus the TV companies will still be given free reign to choose when the teams play, although there will possibly be some leeway for moving fixtures around.


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    #41
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,490 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    The main loser, again, in all of this:
    The Fans.


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    #42
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Interesting article from The Mirror Online.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-set-tv-revolution-4956046#rlabs=8
    Every Premier League game could be shown live on television inside the next five years as football embraces the biggest broadcasting revolution since 1992.

    Sky and BT Sport may be currently preparing their bids for the next television deal which kicks in for the 2016-17 season.

    But the expected £4billion showdown will be peanuts if television and telecoms companies are given the go-ahead to take full advantage of streaming technology when that agreement expires in 2019.

    Sunday Mirror Sport understands that there is a growing desire to give fans the opportunity to watch every single game live from the comfort of their own homes.

    Viewing platforms will be linked to broadband packages - making satellite dishes obsolete.


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    #43
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Mostly conjecture - it's talking about the 2019-2022 rights period and I'm not sure anyone in the Premier League plans that far ahead.


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    #44
    redabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭redabbey


    mikeym wrote: »
    Interesting article from The Mirror Online.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-set-tv-revolution-4956046#rlabs=8
    icdg wrote: »
    Mostly conjecture - it's talking about the 2019-2022 rights period and I'm not sure anyone in the Premier League plans that far ahead.

    Conjecture is too nice a term. It's a total nonsense article. Yes, eventually it may be possible to purchase a season ticket to watch all of one club's matches via broadband, but that will not be happening any time soon and especially not for the TV rights auction beyond the present one.

    The next TV auction features 10 matches for the 1st time games on Friday nights. Yet, the author 'thinks' in the following three year period games would be played across the whole week and satellite dishes would be obsolete. He has a fantastic imagination, but then sometimes that is all you need to work for a 'redtop'.


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    #45
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,490 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    TBH I think some people are getting to the point in thinking that:
    1. There is too much football on TV.
    2. The cost of same is getting prohibitive.
    3. The "average quality" or indeed "entertainment" value is pretty poor overall.

    I don't actually think the rights prices can continue to go up, while showing more matches etc can keep going up indefinitely.


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    #46
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Indeed. I personally don't think "cord-cutting" will happen as fast as some think and live sports is something people will always want to watch live. It and breaking news will keep broadcast TV alive for a good long time, even when viewing of scripting programming and documentaries moves to mainly on-demand (which could take a good few years).

    I can indeed see all Premier League games moving out of the Saturday 3pm slot and I do think that will happen in the next ten years. But nothing I ever see from the Premier League and its members ever makes me think they are capable of long term forward planning of the type ascribed in this article.


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    #47
    redabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭redabbey


    icdg wrote: »
    I can indeed see all Premier League games moving out of the Saturday 3pm slot and I do think that will happen in the next ten years. But nothing I ever see from the Premier League and its members ever makes me think they are capable of long term forward planning of the type ascribed in this article.

    Funnily enough I would disagree on the 3pm blocked broadcasting hours being changed in the future and not because I believe it makes the slightest difference to attendances at lower league matches, which was why it was originally introduced.

    Yes, there will be more matches televised as we can see by the next TV contract that has gone out to tender for broadcasters. There is a balance of attractiveness of fixtures and a saturation/tipping point for the argument to show a much greater number of matches.

    Take last Easter there were six of the ten PL matches selected for live TV coverage with two on the Saturday, three on the Sunday and a Monday night game. The four remaining games were all at 3pm on the Saturday but none of them would have attracted massive audiences after the broadcaster's had selected six more attractive fixtures ahead of them.


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    #48
    TAFKAlawhec
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭TAFKAlawhec


    I remember stories in the English press back in the late 1990's about rumours that Sky were in negations with the EPL over showing every single match live with the introduction of the Sky Digital platform. So any talk about all games being shown is far from new. If the EPL really wanted to, it could have all 380 games available live in the UK, but as to why they don't at the moment can be left to lots of different speculation.


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    #49
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,540 ✭✭✭JTMan


    icdg wrote: »
    I personally don't think "cord-cutting" will happen as fast as some think and live sports is something people will always want to watch live. It and breaking news will keep broadcast TV alive for a good long time, even when viewing of scripting programming and documentaries moves to mainly on-demand (which could take a good few years).

    Cord-cutting, a US coined term, generally refers to the cutting of expensive cable TV subscriptions for FTA, streaming boxes / tools or other alternatives. The boom in streaming boxes, from NetFlix to the Android kind, is a major facilitator. Cable TV subscriptions in the US, Australia and most major markets are on a downward trend. The trend is growing fast.

    Broadcast TV can largely be broken into playback video and live events. Playback video, via video-on-demand, is easiest to move to streaming boxes.
    Live events like sporting event or news will probably be around for many centuries to come. However, the delivery mechanism will change. Streaming boxes will accommodate live events easily.

    The future of TV content delivery fascinates me. We are probably on the edge of big change. If large content providers do not start pumping money into good streaming boxes / tools soon, that incorporate live content, then the broadcast industry might suddenly find Kodi is the biggest streaming tool. Either way their hand will be forced sooner or later.

    Streaming, both of the video-on demand and live TV kind, will replace satellite TV and cable TV content delivery. I think it will happen quicker than many people expect.

    I just did this Google Trend search. Speaks volumes about where we are going and the speed we are getting there.


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    #50
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    redabbey wrote: »
    The four remaining games were all at 3pm on the Saturday but none of them would have attracted massive audiences after the broadcaster's had selected six more attractive fixtures ahead of them.

    And yet broadcasters in remoter parts of the world think those remaining fixtures are worth broadcasting.

    Many European broadcasters would broadcast them too if they were allowed to.

    It is a strange notion to suggest that in the country that actually contains hardcore supporters of the "3pm teams" that they aren't worthy of broadcast.

    Let's face it provision of the games would not put a strain on (for example) Sky. All it would take is to rebroadcast the world feed on one of their approximately 20 active red button streams.

    Oh, and on this coming Saturday those "less attractive" fixtures not picked for UK broadcast feature Manchester Uniited, Liverpool and Chelsea, all playing away from home too!


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    #51
    redabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭redabbey


    radiowaves wrote: »
    And yet broadcasters in remoter parts of the world think those remaining fixtures are worth broadcasting.

    Why would they not broadcast them if they have the available rights and the technology to do so? Those remote parts of the world pick up the rights for a fraction of the cost.

    Every Bundesliga game in Germany can be seen live out there, the rights holders in Germany pay massive money, with the UK rights for not all games being sold on for a small fraction.

    UK broadcasters can only broadcast what is available to them as permitted by the Premier League through it's tendering process.
    radiowaves wrote: »
    It is a strange notion to suggest that in the country that actually contains hardcore supporters of the "3pm teams" that they aren't worthy of broadcast.

    This is a misinterpretation of what I said. I referred to 6 matches selected for broadcasting last Easter and said they were the most attractive. Of course their are hardcore supporters of every team in the Premier League, but if you are one of those supporters of a team towards the foot of the table you will know that matches involving the team you support will only appear on television a fraction of the matches of the bigger teams which will generate the most rating for the television companies.
    radiowaves wrote: »

    Oh, and on this coming Saturday those "less attractive" fixtures not picked for UK broadcast feature Manchester Uniited, Liverpool and Chelsea, all playing away from home too!

    There are always going to be exception in the odd weekend. But as you know if either of those teams were playing each other the match would have been shown.

    28 games is the maximum any team can be shown (29 in the next contract). You will see where I have said that in the future I do believe that a supporter of any club will be able to purchase a broadcast season ticket to see every match that there club plays but that sort of a development I think is not imminent despite what the 'Mirror' said which got me into this discussion.


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    #52
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    redabbey wrote: »
    Why would they not broadcast them if they have the available rights and the technology to do so? Those remote parts of the world pick up the rights for a fraction of the cost.

    UK broadcasters can only broadcast what is available to them as permitted by the Premier League through it's tendering process.

    This is a misinterpretation of what I said. I referred to 6 matches selected for broadcasting last Easter and said they were the most attractive. Of course their are hardcore supporters of every team in the Premier League, but if you are one of those supporters of a team towards the foot of the table you will know that matches involving the team you support will only appear on television a fraction of the matches of the bigger teams which will generate the most rating for the television companies.


    There are always going to be exception in the odd weekend. But as you know if either of those teams were playing each other the match would have been shown.

    Here's the part of your original post that I left out:
    There is a balance of attractiveness of fixtures and a saturation/tipping point for the argument to show a much greater number of matches.

    This makes much of your follow-on response moot as you now saying something different :)

    The Premier League as a package is either worth showing - or it's not. Strange that you say this weekend is an exception yet you use an exceptional weekend to make your own point.

    The way the rights are sold in the UK is what leads to the anomolous situation where attractive fixtures are not broadcast every weekend.


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    #53
    redabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭redabbey


    radiowaves wrote: »
    Here's the part of your original post that I left out:



    This makes much of your follow-on response moot as you now saying something different :)

    The Premier League as a package is either worth showing - or it's not. Strange that you say this weekend is an exception yet you use an exceptional weekend to make your own point.

    The way the rights are sold in the UK is what leads to the anomolous situation where attractive fixtures are not broadcast every weekend.

    My last post on this subject as I only posted in the 1st place to say that I thought the article in the Mirror was nonsense and I followed up by saying that the 3pm blackout on a Saturday is not something I see changing anything soon.

    The discussion has moved to completely different points, but I'll just say this, of course there is a massive difference with games selected last Easter and this weekend. After last Easter's matches there was only three weekends left of the season and matches selected had a direct bearing on the title and the race for champions league spots. It is my opinion that any match selected/not selected for TV coverage this weekend in January does not have the same high stakes riding on the result with four months left in the season.


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    #54
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    redabbey wrote: »
    My last post on this subject as I only posted in the 1st place to say that I thought the article in the Mirror was nonsense and I followed up by saying that the 3pm blackout on a Saturday is not something I see changing anything soon.

    The discussion has moved to completely different points, but I'll just say this, of course there is a massive difference with games selected last Easter and this weekend. After last Easter's matches there was only three weekends left of the season and matches selected had a direct bearing on the title and the race for champions league spots. It is my opinion that any match selected/not selected for TV coverage this weekend in January does not have the same high stakes riding on the result with four months left in the season.

    The 3pm blackout also protects participation so it probably will stay. However that doesn't stop the Premier League games being moved out of the window so that they are not restricted from broadcast. The Premier League are hiding behind the blackout in order to extract maximum revenues.

    The second part of your post only further backs the point that you picked an exceptional weekend to make your point and that this weekend is not exceptional.
    Okay, it is in the sense that there are as many as three games that any one of the three broadcasters in these islands would love to show but are restricted from doing so but it's not exceptional in the sense that there is always at least one fixture that would've been picked but for quotas.

    Further to that there is almost always at least one fixture that has been forced on the broadcasters thanks to quotas.

    Speaking of which (assuming they too are working to quotas) Setanta's picks get more and more bizarre considering that they haven't even picked any of those three games!


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    #55
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,785 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    radiowaves wrote: »
    Speaking of which (assuming they too are working to quotas) Setanta's picks get more and more bizarre considering that they haven't even picked any of those three games!

    I believe Setanta leave the juicer ties for the run-in. There's no harm showing a throw away game like Spurs Sunderland in January and save their top team picks until the end of the season.


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    #56
    radiowaves
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭radiowaves


    Loughc wrote: »
    I believe Setanta leave the juicer ties for the run-in. There's no harm showing a throw away game like Spurs Sunderland in January and save their top team picks until the end of the season.

    Based on that you obviously have some insider knowledge as to how their picks are working?

    If so can you please explain it to us baffled viewers?

    Because there is no real logic to what they're doing if they're working in the way you've specified - firstly, the top teams will all be moved away from 3pm for TV towards the end of the season precisely because they will be "juicier" in that they'll affect title and top four finishes. This will leave Setanta with "juicy" relegation battles featuring teams they seem to feature every week anyway. Any top teams leftover will more likely be involved in dead rubbers.

    Secondly, I haven't totted it up but Sunderland, who are of course on this weekend, have already been on quite a few times (and are on again the NEXT Premier League matchday when, again, both Manchester United and Liverpool are available!!!!). Other picks they've made over the season so far just don't make sense.

    So if they can show Sunderland (and others) loads of times why not the top teams?

    The quotas I believe they're working to actually tie-in with BTs quotas thanks to their tie-in with them. I believe this is why they are picking the games they are and which is why even juicier ties left behind by UK TV towards the end of the season will still get ignored by Setanta.


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    #57
    lertsnim
    Registered Users Posts: 9,735 ✭✭✭lertsnim


    Loughc wrote: »
    I believe Setanta leave the juicer ties for the run-in.

    That would an odd decision as the juicier ties will be moved from Saturday 3pm and shown by Sky and BT .


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    #58
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    lertsnim wrote: »
    That would an odd decision as the juicier ties will be moved from Saturday 3pm and shown by Sky and BT .

    +1

    Sky and Bt always show the important matches before the end of the season.


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    #59
    doc11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭doc11


    JTMan wrote: »

    Streaming, both of the video-on demand and live TV kind, will replace satellite TV and cable TV content delivery. I think it will happen quicker than many people expect.

    I just did this Google Trend search. Speaks volumes about where we are going and the speed we are getting there.

    While online streaming is growing(netflixs) the search is a bit misleading as people don't search for satellite tv or cable they search for SKY tv and UPC etc or there regional variants. And I can see XBMC being curtailed into the future ,illegal free streams can't be compared to a paid service.


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    #60
    ftakeith
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ftakeith


    lertsnim wrote: »
    That would an odd decision as the juicier ties will be moved from Saturday 3pm and shown by Sky and BT .

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2919777/Liverpool-vs-Manchester-United-set-Sunday-showdown-Sky-Sports-BT-Sport-announce-live-fixtures-March.html

    I hope setanta pick some better live 3pm games


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    #61
    Zardoz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭Zardoz


    Discovery Communications International will bid for rights to screen English Premier League football, stepping into the multi-billion-pound auction along with, at least Sky and BT.

    Bids for the next contract are due early next month and Discovery is planning to take part, according to Bloomberg.

    Discovery, which recently acquired majority control of Eurosport, is increasingly taking part in European sports auctions. In June, it made a failed bid for the TV rights to Italy’s Serie A soccer matches, and is reportedly pursuing French rugby rights.

    The participation of bidders such as Discovery is likely to push the price of Premier League football even higher.

    http://advanced-television.com/2015/01/21/discovery-will-bid-for-premier-league/


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