FA Premier League rights 2016-19

icdg

And so it begins - again! And time for a new thread.

The big news is that the Monday Night Football package will include some Friday night games, the first ever time the Premier League will play games regularly in this time slot.

http://m.bbc.com/news/business-30451616

cupthehand1

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/other/premier-league-to-get-that-friday-feeling-654406.html

icdg

Merged threads. for copyright reasons we cannot allow full articles to be posted. Give a one or two line summary and a link

gordongekko

What does this mean for loi in Ireland. Surely the winner will have to pay the fai money or they won't be able to broadcast the games here?

icdg

On the face of it, it doesn't mean anything. The Premier League don't have to pay the FAI anything, any more than they have to pay the SFA, FAW, IFA, or the association in any other territory where the Premier League is broadcast.

The FAI could threathen to invoke the blocked hours on Friday night. But that would be in breach of their own contracts with RTE and Setanta though.

gordongekko

icdg wrote: »

On the face of it, it doesn't mean anything. The Premier League don't have to pay the FAI anything, any more than they have to pay the SFA, FAW, IFA, or the association in any other territory where the Premier League is broadcast.

The FAI could threathen to invoke the blocked hours on Friday night. But that would be in breach of their own contracts with RTE and Setanta though.

Well they could threaten to invoke it on a Saturday,Sunday or Monday evening in an effort to play hardball without effecting their own contracts.

icdg

I think UEFA would probably not be amused if the FAI invoked it in a slot where no league matches were actually being played, it would fall foul of Article 3, Regulation 3 of the blocked hours regulations which requires sufficient proof to be provided that the blocked hours actually correspond with the domestic fixture schedule.

Also apparently the blocked hours cannot be invoked on a Friday, only a Saturday or Sunday.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/88494.pdf

gordongekko

icdg wrote: »

I think UEFA would probably not be amused if the FAI invoked it in a slot where no league matches were actually being played, it would fall foul of Article 3, Regulation 3 of the blocked hours regulations which requires sufficient proof to be provided that the blocked hours actually correspond with the domestic fixture schedule.

Also apparently the blocked hours cannot be invoked on a Friday, only a Saturday or Sunday.

http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/88494.pdf

They set the fixtures so easy to announce that from 2016 matches are to be played on Sundays.

The Cush

The Premier League press release - http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2014-15/dec/premier-league-issues-invitation-to-tender-for-UK-audiovisual-broadcasting-rights.html

Mallagio

So it's the same amount of games made available for the UK market yet again yes?

I look forward to the day when we can get them all Live in these Isles

icdg

Slightly higher amount but not massive difference - the new Friday timeslot is the main thing to note.

kn

Mallagio wrote: »

So it's the same amount of games made available for the UK market yet again yes?

There is a few extra games in the next round. What is worrying me is that the Saturday 3pm KO slot is getting really hollowed out with just 4 or 5 games involving mainly lower half teams at that time. Saturday afternoon football is really just Football League plus a few non-descript PL games.

I often wondered why RTE don't put on a 3pm Championship game since most of our national squad now play in that league. I seen it on terrestrial TV in Denmark years ago.

Mallagio

icdg wrote: »

Slightly higher amount but not massive difference - the new Friday timeslot is the main thing to note.

Is it stated how many of these Friday night games will be made available?

EDIT - Disregard that m8 - Just seen the article with up to ten made available.

mikeym

The Skybet Championship clubs wont be happy about the Premier League Friday night kickoffs.

If the League of Ireland attendances are affected they will have to play their games on Saturday nights.

ziggyman17

Good idea regarding RTE showing The Skybet Championship on a saturday, considering alot of Irish players play in that league.. Free to air tv in Sweden use to show saturday 3pm premier league games, but it got to expensive for them and they now show the Skybet Championship on saturdays instead

lertsnim

I can't imagine it being anything other than cheap either.

irishfeen

It will almost certainly remain the same as the current set-up... Apart from someone like Al Jazeera coming in there just isn't any broadcaster who could match Sky or BT.

Ireland's 3pm games could be competitive enough, TV3 might have some spare cash around (if they lose CL rights), UTVI might have a go and Setanta will of course be bidding too.

Badabing

Setanta will go all out to keep 3pm games, will be very interesting to see if BT and setanta keep there tie up goin for another 3 years.

JTMan

A 3 way split, with the UK rights remains a distinct possibility especially with the smaller packages.

In other words, BT and Sky get all bar one of the packages. Al Jazeera get one of the smaller packages.

icdg

I think though the Irish experience shows that two premium broadcasters is all the market can cope with before people start refusing to pay. Hence the BT-Setanta tie up and prior to that ESPN-Sky and ESPN-UPC. I just don't think people will pay any more than two subscriptions.

mikeym

I hope Setanta dont get the 3pm kick offs.

No one wanted to watch Southampton play Burnley last Saturday and they showed it.

But then again there wont be much interest from other Broadcasters

irishfeen

mikeym wrote: »

I hope Setanta dont get the 3pm kick offs.

No one wanted to watch Southampton play Burnley last Saturday and they showed it.

But then again there wont be much interest from other Broadcasters

There must be some direction coming from the Premier League on what games Setanta must pick - Canal+ on the continent picked Chelsea/Hull for example .. I would find it hard to believe that Setanta picked Southampton over Chelsea.

mikeym

irishfeen wrote: »

There must be some direction coming from the Premier League on what games Setanta must pick - Canal+ on the continent picked Chelsea/Hull for example .. I would find it hard to believe that Setanta picked Southampton over Chelsea.

The guy who presents the 3pm kickoffs explanation is "we try to bring you the most exciting games every Saturday on Setanta".

irishfeen

mikeym wrote: »

The guy who presents the 3pm kickoffs explanation is "we try to bring you the most exciting games every Saturday on Setanta".

Well he is going to say that isn't he ...

Mallagio

Discovery who owns Eurosport have already rights in Romania are said to be interested in the U.K market.

My honest opinion though is that BT will get more games but the same two (Sky & BT) will share the rights.

Setanta here will keep the 3pm.

Mallagio

Setanta picking that game on Saturday was bizarre with the obvious City away to Leicester not being shown.

Thank God for my motorised satellite, still going strong a decade on.

irishfeen

Mallagio wrote: »

Setanta picking that game on Saturday was bizarre with the obvious City away to Leicester not being shown.

Thank God for my motorised satellite, still going strong a decade on.

There must be direction/quotas coming from the Premier League for what games Setanta can show - I find it very hard to believe Setanta would have chose to show Southamption over Chelsea and City. They could be minding their quotas for the 2nd half of the season.

radiowaves

irishfeen wrote: »

There must be direction/quotas coming from the Premier League for what games Setanta can show - I find it very hard to believe Setanta would have chose to show Southamption over Chelsea and City. They could be minding their quotas for the 2nd half of the season.

This is almost certainly due to their tie-in with BT.

Unrestricted 3pms on Setanta and BT's games together would represent a formidable package above and beyond the value of the individual packages paid for (think of the number of Manchester United and Liverpool matches the "Setanta Sports Pack" could advertise as showing under such a scenario) and this might be considered unfair on the other broadcaster holding rights in this country.

The same restrictions wouldn't apply to any other channel showing 3pm games in Ireland - except for maybe Sky or BT. The Premier League won't have foreseen the tie-in this time so it might be negotiated differently with the pay broadcasters next time thus allowing for unrestricted picks again.

Broadcasters abroad who only have rights to 3pm matches do not face any restrictions.

And, of course, Setanta themselves did not face restrictions before their tie-in with BT.

If another broadcaster were to get the 3pms here it might see an end to the kind of farce witnessed the weekend before last (the following has been shamelessly lifted from another forum and refers to the disallowed Stoke goal against Arsenal when the score stood at 3-0)

The commentary (and production) team had no idea the goal had been disallowed and rambled on for 2 full minutes about the effect on Arsenal and Wenger of the 4-0 scoreline - confirmed fully on screen post replays alongwith the "goalscorer".

Then - 2 minutes later remember - inexplicably the onscreen scoreboard reverted back to 3-0 without reference. However, the commentary team continued talking about the phantom 4-0 scoreline.

And, a while later, as Arsenal were awarded their penalty (which they also couldn't confirm until Arsenal stepped up to take it), the commentator shoehorned in mid-sentence that the 4th goal had been disallowed and just continued on with his commentary.

About a minute later he mentioned it again: "apparently there was an offside flag raised which I missed....". (Except, as we know now, the linesman didn't raise any flag.)

He somehow also missed the stadium scoreboard; the lack of a centre-circle restart; the Stoke fans booing incessantly for no apparent reason...!!!

To be fair they weren't helped by the live feed from the stadium but the whole point of commentary is to help the viewer identify what's happening.

If they'd actually admitted they were in their Dublin studio as opposed to the Britannia they might've got some sympathy. But, instead, they ended up sounding like dimwits.

I dedicate this post to those who argued on here before that it doesn't really matter to the viewer whether the commentators are in the stadium or providing off-tube commentary. Of course it does (I don't need commentators describing to me exactly what I can see myself, I need them to be telling me about the stuff I can't see).

At 4-0 I went out to make a cup of tea. I arrived back into the room and it was 3-1!!!!

I confirm all of the above because I rewound to find out what actually went on.

kooga

i think bein sport will be in the mix as well.

icdg

Undoubtably. But BT look like they are going to buy EE, the UK joint venture of T-Mobile and Orange, a move which will spend a whole pile (£12.5b is the figure being talked about) of BT's cash ahead of this auction not to mention leave Deutsche Telekom and Orange minority shareholders in BT.

How does that affect the Premier League? Well it means BT's willingness to spend on rights may be tempered. At any rate there will be a limit beyond which they won't bid and it may be less than it would have been had this massive change in group strategy not occurred,

redabbey

icdg wrote: »

Undoubtably. But BT look like they are going to buy EE, the UK joint venture of T-Mobile and Orange, a move which will spend a whole pile (£12.5b is the figure being talked about) of BT's cash ahead of this auction not to mention leave Deutsche Telekom and Orange minority shareholders in BT.

How does that affect the Premier League? Well it means BT's willingness to spend on rights may be tempered. At any rate there will be a limit beyond which they won't bid and it may be less than it would have been had this massive change in group strategy not occurred,

I can't see why that would have any impact at all. The strategy for growing a business by an acquisition or merger is surely very different to the outlay of expenditure for acquiring extra television rights.

I fully agree that BT's willingness to expand on their football right's though may well be very tempered as it is. The risk/reward gamble is a fine one because as a broadcaster they have not the diversity of other sporting television rights that Sky have. Although it is interesting to see the rumours of them and the BBC doing a deal over Wimbledon in the future despite Sky having flickered their eyelashes for years in the direction of 'The All England Club'.

Loughc

mikeym wrote: »

I hope Setanta dont get the 3pm kick offs.

No one wanted to watch Southampton play Burnley last Saturday and they showed it.

But then again there wont be much interest from other Broadcasters

I think they have to show each club twice before they get to pick what 3pm kick off they show. This was clearly a quota ticking exercise.

irishfeen

Loughc wrote: »

I think they have to show each club twice before they get to pick what 3pm kick off they show. This was clearly a quota ticking exercise.

That does seem like a very likely cause of them showing Southampton/Burnley - it can only be the reason really ... I presume they are trying to get rid of the quota as quick as possible to let them have a free hand in selection after the new year.

Loughc

irishfeen wrote: »

That does seem like a very likely cause of them showing Southampton/Burnley - it can only be the reason really ... I presume they are trying to get rid of the quota as quick as possible to let them have a free hand in selection after the new year.

Exactly, that way they can pick the matches that matter for CL Places, Title contenders and relegation battles.

radiowaves

Loughc wrote: »

Exactly, that way they can pick the matches that matter for CL Places, Title contenders and relegation battles.

Very few (if any) of which will remain at 3pm. In fact, the only fixtures likely to remain at 3pm are those affecting relegation, and at present Setanta are sacrificing Manchester United and Liverpool games to show teams very likely to feature in games not picked for UK TV later in the season, thereby remaining at 3pm (whereas Manchester United and Liverpool almost certainly will be picked and moved from 3pm)

Oh, and they chose a meaningless fixture over one that had something riding on it on the final day last season - when they still had free reign on choices - so if they have any strategy at all I wouldn't trust it

irishfeen

radiowaves wrote: »

Very few (if any) of which will remain at 3pm. In fact, the only fixtures likely to remain at 3pm are those affecting relegation, and at present Setanta are sacrificing Manchester United and Liverpool games to show teams very likely to feature in games not picked for UK TV later in the season, thereby remaining at 3pm (whereas Manchester United and Liverpool almost certainly will be picked and moved from 3pm)

Oh, and they chose a meaningless fixture over one that had something riding on it on the final day last season - when they still had free reign on choices - so if they have any strategy at all I wouldn't trust it

You have to remember Sky and BT have quotas to watch too - on a given weekend it will be unlikely that Liverpool, United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal will all be playing away from 3pm. There will almost always be at least one or two available at 3pm.

Clareman

I'd imagine the clubs who are playing in Europe will be happy to have the option to play on a Friday, play on a Friday, then the following Tuesday then again on the Saturday then the following Wednesday, whole lot easier for the team. The Friday games would allow them avoid a potential bottle neck with the new international windows of a week. I'd imagine they're also giving themselves of an option of another game in case they are forced to take a winter break for the World Cup or something.

radiowaves

irishfeen wrote: »

You have to remember Sky and BT have quotas to watch too - on a given weekend it will be unlikely that Liverpool, United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal will all be playing away from 3pm. There will almost always be at least one or two available at 3pm.

You have to remember that Sky (much less BT) can play around with their quotas thanks to having a number of packages.

Of the teams you named, unless their form improves, Liverpool might remain at 3pm but most - if not all - of the weekends on the run-in all of the other teams are extremely likely to be playing away from 3pm.

Sky know how to use their picks and very rarely, if ever, miss out on an important fixture.

icdg

That won't be an issue in this particular contract, it will be either the final year of the next contract (2019-2022) or the first year or the one after that (2022-2025).

radiowaves

Clareman wrote: »

I'd imagine the clubs who are playing in Europe will be happy to have the option to play on a Friday, play on a Friday, then the following Tuesday then again on the Saturday then the following Wednesday, whole lot easier for the team. The Friday games would allow them avoid a potential bottle neck with the new international windows of a week. I'd imagine they're also giving themselves of an option of another game in case they are forced to take a winter break for the World Cup or something.

Those clubs won't have that option at all!

If a club is not picked for UK TV then they will still have to play at 3pm on a Saturday.

Plus the TV companies will still be given free reign to choose when the teams play, although there will possibly be some leeway for moving fixtures around.

kippy

The main loser, again, in all of this:
The Fans.

mikeym

Interesting article from The Mirror Online.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-set-tv-revolution-4956046#rlabs=8

Every Premier League game could be shown live on television inside the next five years as football embraces the biggest broadcasting revolution since 1992.

Sky and BT Sport may be currently preparing their bids for the next television deal which kicks in for the 2016-17 season.

But the expected £4billion showdown will be peanuts if television and telecoms companies are given the go-ahead to take full advantage of streaming technology when that agreement expires in 2019.

Sunday Mirror Sport understands that there is a growing desire to give fans the opportunity to watch every single game live from the comfort of their own homes.

Viewing platforms will be linked to broadband packages - making satellite dishes obsolete.

icdg

Mostly conjecture - it's talking about the 2019-2022 rights period and I'm not sure anyone in the Premier League plans that far ahead.

redabbey

mikeym wrote: »

Interesting article from The Mirror Online.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-set-tv-revolution-4956046#rlabs=8

icdg wrote: »

Mostly conjecture - it's talking about the 2019-2022 rights period and I'm not sure anyone in the Premier League plans that far ahead.

Conjecture is too nice a term. It's a total nonsense article. Yes, eventually it may be possible to purchase a season ticket to watch all of one club's matches via broadband, but that will not be happening any time soon and especially not for the TV rights auction beyond the present one.

The next TV auction features 10 matches for the 1st time games on Friday nights. Yet, the author 'thinks' in the following three year period games would be played across the whole week and satellite dishes would be obsolete. He has a fantastic imagination, but then sometimes that is all you need to work for a 'redtop'.

kippy

TBH I think some people are getting to the point in thinking that:
1. There is too much football on TV.
2. The cost of same is getting prohibitive.
3. The "average quality" or indeed "entertainment" value is pretty poor overall.

I don't actually think the rights prices can continue to go up, while showing more matches etc can keep going up indefinitely.

icdg

Indeed. I personally don't think "cord-cutting" will happen as fast as some think and live sports is something people will always want to watch live. It and breaking news will keep broadcast TV alive for a good long time, even when viewing of scripting programming and documentaries moves to mainly on-demand (which could take a good few years).

I can indeed see all Premier League games moving out of the Saturday 3pm slot and I do think that will happen in the next ten years. But nothing I ever see from the Premier League and its members ever makes me think they are capable of long term forward planning of the type ascribed in this article.

redabbey

icdg wrote: »

I can indeed see all Premier League games moving out of the Saturday 3pm slot and I do think that will happen in the next ten years. But nothing I ever see from the Premier League and its members ever makes me think they are capable of long term forward planning of the type ascribed in this article.

Funnily enough I would disagree on the 3pm blocked broadcasting hours being changed in the future and not because I believe it makes the slightest difference to attendances at lower league matches, which was why it was originally introduced.

Yes, there will be more matches televised as we can see by the next TV contract that has gone out to tender for broadcasters. There is a balance of attractiveness of fixtures and a saturation/tipping point for the argument to show a much greater number of matches.

Take last Easter there were six of the ten PL matches selected for live TV coverage with two on the Saturday, three on the Sunday and a Monday night game. The four remaining games were all at 3pm on the Saturday but none of them would have attracted massive audiences after the broadcaster's had selected six more attractive fixtures ahead of them.

TAFKAlawhec

I remember stories in the English press back in the late 1990's about rumours that Sky were in negations with the EPL over showing every single match live with the introduction of the Sky Digital platform. So any talk about all games being shown is far from new. If the EPL really wanted to, it could have all 380 games available live in the UK, but as to why they don't at the moment can be left to lots of different speculation.

JTMan

icdg wrote: »

I personally don't think "cord-cutting" will happen as fast as some think and live sports is something people will always want to watch live. It and breaking news will keep broadcast TV alive for a good long time, even when viewing of scripting programming and documentaries moves to mainly on-demand (which could take a good few years).

Cord-cutting, a US coined term, generally refers to the cutting of expensive cable TV subscriptions for FTA, streaming boxes / tools or other alternatives. The boom in streaming boxes, from NetFlix to the Android kind, is a major facilitator. Cable TV subscriptions in the US, Australia and most major markets are on a downward trend. The trend is growing fast.

Broadcast TV can largely be broken into playback video and live events. Playback video, via video-on-demand, is easiest to move to streaming boxes.
Live events like sporting event or news will probably be around for many centuries to come. However, the delivery mechanism will change. Streaming boxes will accommodate live events easily.

The future of TV content delivery fascinates me. We are probably on the edge of big change. If large content providers do not start pumping money into good streaming boxes / tools soon, that incorporate live content, then the broadcast industry might suddenly find Kodi is the biggest streaming tool. Either way their hand will be forced sooner or later.

Streaming, both of the video-on demand and live TV kind, will replace satellite TV and cable TV content delivery. I think it will happen quicker than many people expect.

I just did this Google Trend search. Speaks volumes about where we are going and the speed we are getting there.

radiowaves

redabbey wrote: »

The four remaining games were all at 3pm on the Saturday but none of them would have attracted massive audiences after the broadcaster's had selected six more attractive fixtures ahead of them.

And yet broadcasters in remoter parts of the world think those remaining fixtures are worth broadcasting.

Many European broadcasters would broadcast them too if they were allowed to.

It is a strange notion to suggest that in the country that actually contains hardcore supporters of the "3pm teams" that they aren't worthy of broadcast.

Let's face it provision of the games would not put a strain on (for example) Sky. All it would take is to rebroadcast the world feed on one of their approximately 20 active red button streams.

Oh, and on this coming Saturday those "less attractive" fixtures not picked for UK broadcast feature Manchester Uniited, Liverpool and Chelsea, all playing away from home too!

redabbey

radiowaves wrote: »

And yet broadcasters in remoter parts of the world think those remaining fixtures are worth broadcasting.

Why would they not broadcast them if they have the available rights and the technology to do so? Those remote parts of the world pick up the rights for a fraction of the cost.

Every Bundesliga game in Germany can be seen live out there, the rights holders in Germany pay massive money, with the UK rights for not all games being sold on for a small fraction.

UK broadcasters can only broadcast what is available to them as permitted by the Premier League through it's tendering process.

radiowaves wrote: »

It is a strange notion to suggest that in the country that actually contains hardcore supporters of the "3pm teams" that they aren't worthy of broadcast.

This is a misinterpretation of what I said. I referred to 6 matches selected for broadcasting last Easter and said they were the most attractive. Of course their are hardcore supporters of every team in the Premier League, but if you are one of those supporters of a team towards the foot of the table you will know that matches involving the team you support will only appear on television a fraction of the matches of the bigger teams which will generate the most rating for the television companies.

radiowaves wrote: »

Oh, and on this coming Saturday those "less attractive" fixtures not picked for UK broadcast feature Manchester Uniited, Liverpool and Chelsea, all playing away from home too!

There are always going to be exception in the odd weekend. But as you know if either of those teams were playing each other the match would have been shown.

28 games is the maximum any team can be shown (29 in the next contract). You will see where I have said that in the future I do believe that a supporter of any club will be able to purchase a broadcast season ticket to see every match that there club plays but that sort of a development I think is not imminent despite what the 'Mirror' said which got me into this discussion.