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Street Fighter V: Despite all his ragé he's still just a rat in a Kage

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    I don't know how anyone can advocate omegas input buffer system. Combos aren't hard, especially not bnbs. If you don't like learning bnb combos then why play fighting games?

    People are talking like combos are hard or like some massively important part of the game. I disagree heavily. BNBs are really all you need and learning and executing bnbs is a core part of SF and also isn't hard at all. Having more damaging combos for specific situations is nice to have but not necessary to learn, but I like how it rewards people for having put the time and effort in. That's how fighting games work.

    You're rewarded for spacing, punishing and solid fundamentals in fgs.

    A chain combo system is kinda silly. Doesn't belong in a SF game. The counter argument is that it takes away from the "combo grind" and allows people to focus more on footsies etc. But it takes away from footsies. Being able to chain footsie pokes into chains for big damage is ridiculous. Combos aren't barring anyone from playing sf and its not a barrier to learning the game, at all.

    Input leniency is way worse than shortcuts. I'd rather a shortcut system where people had to time reversals rather than a system where reversals are extremely easy to do. Shortcuts are fine.

    Tldr : stop crying babies who cant do bnbs or reversals and fu capcom if you tone down the game any more as is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭Naphiel


    Rewarding people for putting large amounts of time in training mode on combos alone is pretty dumb. Reward conversions and hit confirms, not simply execution.

    I much prefer early recognition of important things like counter hits and spacing on hit being rewarded with more damage than a 1f link or something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »

    Don't listen to experienced players who know what they're talking about like Ramza.

    Ftfy :pac:
    Naphiel wrote: »
    Rewarding people for putting large amounts of time in training mode on combos alone is pretty dumb. Reward conversions and hit confirms, not simply execution.

    I much prefer early recognition of important things like counter hits and spacing on hit being rewarded with more damage than a 1f link or something.

    I agree but that's not the point I made. Bnbs don't require huge amounts of time to learn and really come with gameplay and experience. Watch any high level sf match and 95% of combos done are hit confirmed bread and butters. Longer combos are punishes or from baiting a dp etc. Literally every fighting game requires you to have bnbs.

    Watch any high level sf match and you'll see this. Take momochi, his spacing and zoning is on another level. Cr lk cr jab linked to dp is probably the only combo he does. Confirms to shoryu or cr mk tatsu is the extent of his combos. All bnbs and arent hard to do. That rings true for any if not all characters in sf. High level sf isn't decided by combos. Good spacing and solid overall fundamentals are the key components of high level sf.

    Games like GG and marvel etc are more heavily combo oriented. 1f links in sf really don't take huge practice and some of the more damaging ones don't make or break games. You aren't rewarded games based on having sick 1f links :pac: People are overly exageratting the seemingly huge reward 1f links bring. Learn your bnbs and you'll be fine.

    Which is why I agree that people should be rewarded for the other fundamentals, its why I think sf is the best fg. Look at st, while the game has very high damage, you rarely if at all see any combos. You're rewarded for spacing and zoning and fundamentals. The same applies to sf4 and should in sf5, which is why I am opposing silly chain combos. Its not the kinda game to have that kinda system and bringing it into sf5 will only bode negatively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Nutrient


    Long as somebody is breaking the rules using a weapon stick/knife/gun/bombs I'll be satisfied.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭Sairus


    Bunch of screens popped up:

    http://gematsu.com/2015/06/street-fighter-v-pre-e3-2015-screenshots

    SFV-Pre-E3-Screens_06-11-15.jpg

    You can see Haggard and Guy on that weird "Good friend!" poster on the top left. I love how even now every UK stage's first ports of call are Union Jacks everywhere and crazy haired punks. Stage looks nice though!

    The game in general is looking seriously pretty in these screens.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Nutrient


    reckon ono tease is ken, banana ken only thing that comes to mind


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭Rob2D




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza




    Lots of new stuff here. Ryu's parry looks sick albeit a temporary buff with his V gauge thing. Alpha counter style mechanic too. 2 things I definitely like in a fg. Game looks more polished, lots of new animations (certain pokes, ryu's fireball etc) and game looks sped up.

    Looks like I was right about scissor kick not knocking down, wtf :eek:

    Stun bar is sick, damage looks a bit mental though

    Sweeps and throws are not a hard knockdown, that's good imo.

    Although wtf at that chun jump arc? That looked like a damn kof hop. Capcem plz


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭Rob2D


    Ramza wrote: »
    Ryu's parry looks sick albeit a temporary buff with his V gauge thing.

    No I think he can do it all the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Rob2D wrote: »
    No I think he can do it all the time.

    That's cool then. I think it's also a command input which is a nice balancing act by capcom.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭blag


    Naphiel wrote: »
    Rewarding people for putting large amounts of time in training mode on combos alone is pretty dumb. Reward conversions and hit confirms, not simply execution.

    I much prefer early recognition of important things like counter hits and spacing on hit being rewarded with more damage than a 1f link or something.

    This is just stating the obvious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,449 ✭✭✭Rob2D


    Ramza wrote: »
    That's cool then. I think it's also a command input which is a nice balancing act by capcom.

    I believe it's the same as Omega mode, mp+mk. So nowhere near as easy as just tapping forward. So as you say he won't be OP.


  • Moderators Posts: 5,558 ✭✭✭Azza


    They gave Bison Makoto's walk speed :eek:.....how the hell am I'm suppose to run away and timer scam with that geriatric walk! Do they expect me to spend more than 5-10% of a round actually fighting!!


  • Moderators Posts: 5,558 ✭✭✭Azza


    More Street Fighter 5 info

    General:

    • Throws have a longer wiff animation, no crouch teching.
    • Backdash is throw invincible, but vulnerable to hits.
    • Crush Counter – new mechanic, unique stun state on certain attacks on counter hit, much like Fatal attacks in Blazblue.
    • Normals deal temporary chip damage.
    • Only throws and critical arts deal hard knockdown, with an exception to Ryu's back throw.
    • Wake-up speed greatly increased.
    • V-Skill activated by pressing both Mediums.
    • V-Trigger activated by pressing both Heavies.
    • V-Reversal takes one stock of the V-Gauge, acts much like an Alpha Counter, resets situation to neutral

    Lots of details up here.
    http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/jun/11/street-fighter-5s-new-trailer-details-games-battle-system/


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Nutrient


    Years have taking their toll on Bisons walk speed


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    Throws are definitely not hard knock down, check the video earlier to see all throws being quick rised.

    Bison also has a fireball, though it's not shown in much of the footage. It's in one of the newer videos (a separate command fireball from his v skill absorb thing)
    All V-Reversals don't have the same function. Some will knock the opponent down, while others can cause a side switch

    This is potentially OP. Cornering someone only for them to activate their alpha counter to now corner you for 1 bar is a bit stupid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Scavenger XIII


    Ramza wrote: »
    This is potentially OP. Cornering someone only for them to activate their alpha counter to now corner you for 1 bar is a bit stupid.

    God forbid it be heavily punishable if baited.


  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Macal


    Even the trailer music is actually pretty good. Wasn't crazy about SFIV's OST as a whole, so hopefully SFV will be superior in that aspect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    God forbid it be heavily punishable if baited.

    Alpha counters aren't whiffable or baitable up close since you need to force someone to a block state for them to do it. Once they activate, they work. Unless they implement a system where alpha counters can be alpha countered. Even still, corner switch alpha counter sounds ridiculous, one bar or not.

    Looks like the general direction of the game is very offense based and quite 3s esque, fireballs will be useless in some matchups (ryu bison and charlie v skill eats them for v meter), a lot less hard knockdown. This is good.

    Charlie's ex cmd grab thing also steals health, that's a very darkstalkers esque thing. Also interesting to note that Charlie isn't a charge character, all his moves are command inputs.


  • Moderators Posts: 8,678 ✭✭✭D4RK ONION


    I think that Chun-Li jump arc is a command dash, decapre teleport up style.

    Sick Versus Screen
    UnsteadyDefiniteHorseshoebat.gif

    Crossup Indicator
    VfaMhfj.png

    More game footage
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6ghGitgjwyTL4bxCte?start=0


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Scavenger XIII


    Ramza wrote: »
    Alpha counters aren't whiffable or baitable up close since you need to force someone to a block state for them to do it. Once they activate, they work. Unless they implement a system where alpha counters can be alpha countered. Even still, corner switch alpha counter sounds ridiculous, one bar or not.

    There's plenty of other factors, like these mad things known as startup and recovery. :pac:

    Every single character in KOF can do what is basically an alpha counter for as little as a fifth of their total meter reserve. Yet you wouldn't see halfway decent players doing it out of every pressure string because it's just not that good. Most frequently used normals will recover in time to block it unless they are cancelled, and then it's terrible on block.

    The side switch? Yeah every character can do that as well and you will rarely see it for the same reasons, it's a hard read that can easily cost you a character if not done at the right time.

    TLDR; It's completely pointless complaining about pure conjecture. There are a lot of variables in how it could be implemented, wait for the specifics and we'll see if it's even useful let alone OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    There's plenty of other factors, like these mad things known as startup and recovery. :pac:

    Every single character in KOF can do what is basically an alpha counter for as little as a fifth of their total meter reserve. Yet you wouldn't see halfway decent players doing it out of every pressure string because it's just not that good. Most frequently used normals will recover in time to block it unless they are cancelled, and then it's terrible on block.

    The side switch? Yeah every character can do that as well and you will rarely see it for the same reasons, it's a hard read that can easily cost you a character if not done at the right time.

    TLDR; It's completely pointless complaining about pure conjecture. There are a lot of variables in how it could be implemented, wait for the specifics and we'll see if it's even useful let alone OP.

    I'm talking about an alpha counter that is a teleport, ive seen it in some of the new footage. I'm completely fine with other alpha counters. Charlie literally disappears for a second then appears behind you half screen away, now cornering you. Not comparable to how they work in kof dude :pac:

    He flies out of the corner during hitstop so startup is irrelevant, which makes it extra strong. It also looks like it has very little if no recovery. On paper that's op, regardless even if it has some recovery because you likely wont be able to punish it, it sends him flying.

    I'm probably over reacting honestly and getting worried over it is honestly stupid I admit but still, it looked crazy silly.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Ramza wrote: »
    I'm talking about an alpha counter that is a teleport, ive seen it in some of the new footage. I'm completely fine with other alpha counters. Charlie literally disappears for a second then appears behind you half screen away, now cornering you. Not comparable to how they work in kof dude :pac:

    He flies out of the corner during hitstop so startup is irrelevant, which makes it extra strong. It also looks like it has very little if no recovery. On paper that's op, regardless even if it has some recovery because you likely wont be able to punish it, it sends him flying.

    I'm probably over reacting honestly and getting worried over it is honestly stupid I admit but still, it looked crazy silly.

    That burns half his V meter to do though- it's probably not half as crazy in reality as some of the SFIV escape options...


  • Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭GorySnake


    That burns half his V meter to do though- it's probably not half as crazy in reality as some of the SFIV escape options...

    Early days, plenty of time to fine tune this etc.

    But you can clearly see in this video, that bar fills extremely quickly. Right at the start of the vid, 2 heavies and he's got an Alpha Counter stocked



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,006 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Have they dropped the name Charlie entirely? That was a Capcom USA trailer, but exclusively used Nash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    That burns half his V meter to do though- it's probably not half as crazy in reality as some of the SFIV escape options...

    The corner is very easy to work in SF4 imo. Corner escape options in sf4 are nowhere near as messed up as how this looks. Teles and the like can be baited and punished, where as with this you have to commit.

    Charlie builds V meter the fastest out of the cast Atm with his v skill, thus adding to how I believe his alpha counter to be op. A comparison would be EX psycho in SF4, a corner escape that only a handful of characters can punish on blocj, but at least can be baited and punished, so its alright in that sense. However this v reversal thing cant be baited and works on the basis that you're committing to offense and now being cornered for it.

    I can't find any footage of it in action Atm as I am on mobile but have a dig through some of the footage and you'll likely find it.

    Like I said I'm likely expressing concern over nothing, but alpha counters should give you a little breathing space, not fly you out of the corner for free (per se). Just something that stood out as a little iffy to me when watching videos. I'm sure in the coming weeks when top players get to test things out they'll get a feel for if it really is as powerful as it looks. Lots of time for capcom to fine tune things though. A lot of things look very powerful Atm too, but since the game is in development I have no doubts they will change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,707 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    Ramza would you stop calling things OP.

    It's a beta build.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭Ramza


    K.O.Kiki wrote: »
    Ramza would you stop calling things OP.

    It's a beta build.

    Isn't that the point of a beta? To point out things that are silly/need tweaking and for capcom to fix? Of course I understand a beta is never going to be close to a finished product, and is gonna have lots of flaws.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Scavenger XIII


    I wouldn't say it's even close to being a beta at this point, a beta should be feature complete and just in need of tweaks.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Have they dropped the name Charlie entirely? That was a Capcom USA trailer, but exclusively used Nash.

    They've referred to him as Charlie Nash a couple of times but it's clear they're trying to close down that one particular anachronism.
    GorySnake wrote: »
    Early days, plenty of time to fine tune this etc.

    But you can clearly see in this video, that bar fills extremely quickly. Right at the start of the vid, 2 heavies and he's got an Alpha Counter stocked


    Just noticed that. Jesus!

    TBH a few things strike me as being open to abuse, like giving just one character a parry, or just one character invincible forward dashes. Loads of stuff that needs an eye kept.

    With the history of hindsight SF4 was fairly tightly balanced compared to other first goes, so I guess I'll give them a little benefit of doubt.


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