Bed-sits to make a come back

foggy_lad

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Even a down and out should at least have a room to call home.

This is the problem and the actual issue in Ireland!

In many American states and other European countries once the temperature drops below certain levels all these down and outs are rounded up and forced into hostels and other secure accommodation for their own protection(from the elements).

These people are not suitable for housing in apartments houses or even bedsits because most have fairly serious mental health conditions and/or addiction and alcoholism issues. They will turn any accommodation into a flop-house within weeks of moving in and no landlord wants/will accept that crap on their doorstep!

The people who are most in need of housing are those who were up to recently working and living in their own home with a family and mortgage and are now homeless and living on the streets, trying not to get robbed(of their clothes and footwear as well as any other belongings) and beaten up on the streets by the scum of the city.

Those responsible people should be housed in army accommodation as an emergency measure until they are able to secure reasonable accommodation at least those who are still working will be able to keep working and supporting themselves.

zef

foggy_lad wrote: »

This is the problem and the actual issue in Ireland!

In many American states and other European countries once the temperature drops below certain levels all these down and outs are rounded up and forced into hostels and other secure accommodation for their own protection(from the elements).

These people are not suitable for housing in apartments houses or even bedsits because most have fairly serious mental health conditions and/or addiction and alcoholism issues. They will turn any accommodation into a flop-house within weeks of moving in and no landlord wants/will accept that crap on their doorstep!

The people who are most in need of housing are those who were up to recently working and living in their own home with a family and mortgage and are now homeless and living on the streets, trying not to get robbed(of their clothes and footwear as well as any other belongings) and beaten up on the streets by the scum of the city.

Those responsible people should be housed in army accommodation as an emergency measure until they are able to secure reasonable accommodation at least those who are still working will be able to keep working and supporting themselves.

Ah yeah, the 'good homeless' and the 'baaad homeless'. Cheers for clarifying.

Thoie

A better idea than just unbanning the abysmal bedsits with shared bathrooms, no fire escapes, and little to no cooking facilities is to give landlords a grant to bring these up to "code". Make sure they're well ventilated, not a fire hazard, have a bathroom and cooking facilities.

In return for this grant, the landlord should then have to accept rent allowance, and must rent the units out for no more than the rent allowance cap, and must continue to do so for a prolonged period (20 years or more). If the building is sold/passed on, the requirement to keep renting it out for the rest of the 20 years goes with it (this would prevent landlords getting the grant, then transferring ownership to a partner, and charging more/not accepting rent allowance).

The grant should cover the basic costs of installing a bathroom and plumbing. Alternatively the government could arrange interest free loans for landlords to carry out the work, or some other solution I haven't thought of yet.

Markcheese

If you put more accommodation into the market quickly it'll take heat out of it - if you afford to have an apartment and don't want a bedsit -don't get a bedsit -
If you can't afford an apartment and there's no bedsits where do you go ?
Yes there should be standards (and possibly a form of rent control at their reintroduction)

By the way there's a homelessness crisis in cork (300% increase in last 4or 5 years) ... But not the housing crisis

hfallada

Some bedsits were fine. I seen some that were fine. Although there was a lot that were modern day slums. But if you are a LL and was unsure whether they were going to be banned, you obviously werent going to spend any money on them. House shares are a better option now. People are happy to share a bathroom and a kitchen.

There is a reassuring pattern happening in regulations in Ireland. Something is outlawed, than enforced strictly and then went most are compliant, the laws are relaxed again. This happen with dangerous breeds in DCC. DCC forced thousands of dogs owners have their dangerous dogs put down, than after most dogs were destroyed, they allowed owners with the existing dogs to keep them. But there was to be no more dangerous dogs after that

the_syco

L1011 wrote: »

I meant from the current regulations. The Pre-63 rules allowed you to get away with murder, starting with no planning permission...

But didn't current legislations not what caused them to close the effing bedsits in the first place? You either have the sh|tty little hovels, or you don't. There will "never be money" to update the hovels, as you can't make sace out of no space. You have to reduce the amount of rooms in the house, to give other rooms more than a bedsit, and this in turn drives up the price.

L1011

the_syco wrote: »

But didn't current legislations not what caused them to close the effing bedsits in the first place?

Yes... that's what my point was. The only concession they could conceivably make off current regulations would be over providing individual bathrooms. That'd still leave most hovels out of spec.

And anyway, its not as if those buildings are sitting empty anyway. Those that were upgradable generally have been upgraded and are tenanted as "studio apartments" now, those that weren't were sold and are being converted back to houses. The out-of-spec bedsits are permanently gone (or are still being rented illegally); not sitting empty waiting a change in regulations.

Thoie

hfallada wrote: »

Some bedsits were fine. I seen some that were fine. Although there was a lot that were modern day slums. But if you are a LL and was unsure whether they were going to be banned, you obviously werent going to spend any money on them.

Absolutely - I lived in what I'd call a bedsit that had its own bathroom, and it was grand. It would probably be called a studio apartment now, though that makes it sound far grander than what it was. When searching for that place I saw some truly horrific sights. This was before the shared bathroom places were banned. Some of those places I wouldn't have kept a rat in, though it appeared that many other people did.

hfallada wrote: »

House shares are a better option now. People are happy to share a bathroom and a kitchen.

House shares are fine at a certain stage in life, and certainly of my age group most people lived in a houseshare after leaving home, then progressed to a bedsit, and from there to a house/apartment whether alone or with a partner. I couldn't really imagine being in a house share much past the age of 30 (unless you've been sharing with friends long term).

hfallada

Thoie wrote: »

House shares are fine at a certain stage in life, and certainly of my age group most people lived in a houseshare after leaving home, then progressed to a bedsit, and from there to a house/apartment whether alone or with a partner. I couldn't really imagine being in a house share much past the age of 30 (unless you've been sharing with friends long term).

Its the norm in places like Germany. I lived there my friends who were 35 and over seen nothing wrong with it. They got to live in excellent locations, in decent apartments in a way that was far more affordable than a 1bed apartment.

I cant understand the Irish mindset, that house shares are for only twenty-somethings. But its perfectly fine for someone to blow most their income on a one bed apartment instead of getting a cheaper houseshare. Most Irish people dont get on in house shares, because a lot of Irish people are pigs to live with (ask any air steward and they will tell you Irish are some of the dirtiest passengers on a plane). Irish people also will generally not work out with any nationality other than Irish. My parents are LLs and most Irish people cant live with another nationality.

Houseshares are going to become more common whether people like it or not. There cant be enough one bed apartments for every single person in the city. Even the new apartments in the Bolands development are all 3 Bed apartments. In that area, they are going to be let to professionals and not families. Apartments are only going to get bigger and people are going to have to share, if they want affordable housing.

MagicMarker

hfallada wrote: »

Its the norm in places like Germany. I lived there my friends who were 35 and over seen nothing wrong with it. They got to live in excellent locations, in decent apartments in a way that was far more affordable than a 1bed apartment.

I cant understand the Irish mindset, that house shares are for only twenty-somethings. But its perfectly fine for someone to blow most their income on a one bed apartment instead of getting a cheaper houseshare. Most Irish people dont get on in house shares, because a lot of Irish people are pigs to live with (ask any air steward and they will tell you Irish are some of the dirtiest passengers on a plane). Irish people also will generally not work out with any nationality other than Irish. My parents are LLs and most Irish people cant live with another nationality.

Houseshares are going to become more common whether people like it or not. There cant be enough one bed apartments for every single person in the city. Even the new apartments in the Bolands development are all 3 Bed apartments. In that area, they are going to be let to professionals and not families. Apartments are only going to get bigger and people are going to have to share, if they want affordable housing.

Do you know all Irish people? Have your parents rented to the majority of Irish people? No. So stop talking such utter bollocks.

The_Morrigan

Folks, please stop all the generalisations and name calling - I do not want to see anyone referring to anyone as scum, or making slating remarks based on some sweeping statements.

If you can't debate without it boiling down to insults and bad language being thrown about, then please don't post.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Thoie wrote: »

Absolutely - I lived in what I'd call a bedsit that had its own bathroom, and it was grand. It would probably be called a studio apartment now, though that makes it sound far grander than what it was. When searching for that place I saw some truly horrific sights. This was before the shared bathroom places were banned. Some of those places I wouldn't have kept a rat in, though it appeared that many other people did.


House shares are fine at a certain stage in life, and certainly of my age group most people lived in a houseshare after leaving home, then progressed to a bedsit, and from there to a house/apartment whether alone or with a partner. I couldn't really imagine being in a house share much past the age of 30 (unless you've been sharing with friends long term).

I would have to disagree. In my experience most well paid professionals (€60k+) will continue to houseshare until they move in with a partner or while saving up to buy. Unfortunately These days renting on your own doesn't leave you much scope for saving.

My own tenants are professionals in their late 30s

markmacken

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

This will likely not affect the homelessness problem at all anyway. There's more than one reason people are on the streets. It's more likely that the bedsits will be taken up at the lower end of the market, by those who can't afford the rising rent costs and those looking for places that take rent allowance.

Hopefully the re-introduction of bedsits would help homelessness to some extent. But even if it doesn't, it would at least be good if it took some heat out of the rental market. It's ridiculous out there at the moment for people trying to find a place to rent.

Pat Mustard

Bedsits are low-cost, low-quality accommodation primarily chosen by people on low incomes. These people may not wish to rent apartments due to the expense, and the consequent dent it would make in their incomes.

A very good point was made earlier on in this thread that a previous government attempted to tackle the problem of standards in accommodation by attempting to get rid of bedsits, but failed to deal with the consequent issue of lack of supply of low-cost accommodation. That government proposed to get rid of bedsits but didn't provide anywhere for those bedsit dwellers to stay. In other words, the government didn't think it through.

Even tax breaks for landlords who upgraded their premises would have been something.

kandoola

I reckon the plan is that the government want to only have to build the cheapest accommodation they can get away with - Bedsits.

Hundreds of bedsits in a building. More bang for the buck. Government sponsored bedsit ghettos are coming to a town near you.
Just so the government can stuff as many homeless people as possible into the one building and say "oh look at us, arent we great, we've solved the problem". Sounds very like the "Oh look at us we've solved the unemployment problem by getting the unemployed to work for nothing instead of being unemployed". Oh its the same person on the end of both schemes.

They are only changing this to suit their own agenda.

handlemaster

Kandoola if your sleeping on the street does it really matter how big your free accomodation is. After all it should be a stepping stone to getting a job, getting you life back on track. I don't think the tax payers of Ireland would like to see homeless people living it up in big appartments

murphaph

kandoola wrote: »

I reckon the plan is that the government want to only have to build the cheapest accommodation they can get away with - Bedsits.

Hundreds of bedsits in a building. More bang for the buck. Government sponsored bedsit ghettos are coming to a town near you.
Just so the government can stuff as many homeless people as possible into the one building and say "oh look at us, arent we great, we've solved the problem". Sounds very like the "Oh look at us we've solved the unemployment problem by getting the unemployed to work for nothing instead of being unemployed". Oh its the same person on the end of both schemes.

They are only changing this to suit their own agenda.

Small room with shared bathroom or doorway in the middle of winter. You choose.

Mrs OBumble

kandoola wrote: »

I reckon the plan is that the government want to only have to build the cheapest accommodation they can get away with - Bedsits.

Hundreds of bedsits in a building. More bang for the buck. Government sponsored bedsit ghettos are coming to a town near you.
....

They are only changing this to suit their own agenda.

They could already build studio apartments, quite legally. Notice that they don't, because most of the people on the housing lists are families who need more space than that. (Except of course if they're asylum seekers who do just fine with one bedroom for the whole family, but that's another story).

There have already been plenty of government sponsored ghettos all over the country. Some have been or are being removed (Ballymun flats, Rahoon flats, Moyross are well-known examples). Other less notorious ones have been re-generated rather more quietly, while others still persist today: as housing officials have learned more, they know that putting a few owner-occupied houses into some mainly-social-housing estates is more likely to make a community that lasts, even if it does need 24x7 guarda presence.

And of course they're changing to suit their own agenda. That's how democracy works: people elect governments who do what they want, and politicians do the things that they think will maximise their chances of getting re-elected.

As a tax-payer, I want the supply in the lower end of the housing market increased so that low-paid workers aren't forced into emergency accommodation. I'd be well in support of outlawing bedsits - if there were adequate alternatives. Their 'aint, so this isn't the time to do it.

Saipanne

If they were done properly, it would be a great idea for young professionals.

stateofflux

A simple solution to a complex problem....that won't work

Markcheese

stateofflux wrote: »

A simple solution to a complex problem....that won't work

There's bedsits and bedsits - I remember a couple of the kips I stayed in, and heard stories of worse -
I've also been in some really classy ones (a few years back) - yes there's many out there that need upgrading- but bringing SOME of them back into the rental market would help take heat out of the rental market-

Santa Cruz

crusher000 wrote: »

Lived in them when I was a student many years ago. Where anything but luxurious but served there purpose and were affordable. Again regulation will have to come into it and this will add to their cost.

I was in one where there were no legs on the bed so the landlord had one end raised with concrete blocks and the bed slanted down. I understand that Jimmy Saville was buried in that manner. The cooker was in a press and we shared a bathroom with six others. Ah the good old days!

murphaph

A friend of mine here in Berlin has an old flat with a shower cubicle in his kitchen.

jamesbondings

shruikan2553 wrote: »

The problem is balancing them between absolute ****holes vs cost. Need enough standards to make the livable but too many leads to rising prices.

Seeing the prices some really terrible places go for Im not expecting much.

Lived in one for 6 years and will likely be going back to one next year, i really think its what you make of them. Mine was a hole, bit of paint and a few shelves, some space saving ideas can really make it nice. I paid 70 a week and i regarded it very nice and would have happily paid up to 110 a week after i had done the work. (granted only if it was like that when i moved it!)

Maybe it also helps that i had a bang on landlord too! now while it took hiim ages to get the finger out if something needed doing, if i did it he would sort me out for it!

Rubberchikken

Does anyone ever consider asking the actual homeless what they want.
I'm sure many are capable of vocalising their needs and would be a damn sight better at explaining what this country needsto do regarding the homeless problem, not some well meaning but completely ignorant politician.

Bedsits aren't the answer especially if they are owned and run by the same questionable landlords that control most if the rental market in our cities.

handlemaster

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Does anyone ever consider asking the actual homeless what they want.
I'm sure many are capable of vocalising their needs and would be a damn sight better at explaining what this country needsto do regarding the homeless problem, not some well meaning but completely ignorant politician.

Bedsits aren't the answer especially if they are owned and run by the same questionable landlords that control most if the rental market in our cities.

The government arent going to run them. Not all Landlords are bad or questionable same as tenants.

Eric Cartman

coming soon , bedsits for €1500 a month in dublin , it might somewhat address supply, but at a price.

Also on the homeless side. Id be interested to know how many homeless people there are in dublin who don't have a drink and/or drug problem. It seems to me dublin has an addiction problem that needs to be dealt with severely. I have no sympathy for these homeless people as they brought it on themselves. I would like to see how many homeless people who aren't addicts we have to house so that a plan could be made to help them, and them only.

crusher000

Eric Cartman wrote: »

coming soon , bedsits for €1500 a month in dublin , it might somewhat address supply, but at a price.

Also on the homeless side. Id be interested to know how many homeless people there are in dublin who don't have a drink and/or drug problem. It seems to me dublin has an addiction problem that needs to be dealt with severely. I have no sympathy for these homeless people as they brought it on themselves. I would like to see how many homeless people who aren't addicts we have to house so that a plan could be made to help them, and them only.

Stop, your bringing a tear to my eye with your christian, humane side being so prominent and it being Christmas and all. You have defiently put yourself in the running for Irish person of the Year 2015.

handlemaster

Eric Cartman wrote: »

coming soon , bedsits for €1500 a month in dublin , it might somewhat address supply, but at a price.

Also on the homeless side. Id be interested to know how many homeless people there are in dublin who don't have a drink and/or drug problem. It seems to me dublin has an addiction problem that needs to be dealt with severely. I have no sympathy for these homeless people as they brought it on themselves. I would like to see how many homeless people who aren't addicts we have to house so that a plan could be made to help them, and them only.

Go and Work with the homeless for one night. Bet you come back a changed man.

L1011

crusher000 wrote: »

Stop, your bringing a tear to my eye with your christian, humane side being so prominent and it being Christmas and all. You have defiently put yourself in the running for Irish person of the Year 2015.

Bit of an assumption to make that someone is christian in the first place...


I've to ask this question again - WHERE are the bedsits they're proposing to "bring back" - what landlord has been sitting on empty properties for a year?

They are all either converted to studios, converted to houses or still being rented illegally, that's where. There is no tap of supply to turn on.