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Why is it illegal to sell/purchase sex?

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24

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    #32
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    catallus wrote: »
    Sex is the physical expression of Love.

    One can no more validly sell sex and remain truly human than one can sell love.

    Neither does one have to experience sex to experience love. Love has many guises.

    Do you honestly believe all this? Utter codswallop.


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    #33
    Vision of Disorder
    Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭Vision of Disorder


    catallus wrote: »
    Neither does one have to experience sex to experience love. Love has many guises.

    And none of them are governed by 'God'.


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    #34
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,713 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    catallus wrote: »
    Sex is the physical expression of Love.

    One can no more validly sell sex and remain truly human than one can sell love.

    Neither does one have to experience sex to experience love. Love has many guises.

    but you said that sexual relations are the essence of humanity. If a person doesn't have sex, they aren't truly human by your own phrasing.

    Nor, in a weird contradiction, are they if they have sex and pay someone for it:confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    catallus wrote: »
    Sex is the physical expression of Love.


    So animals can Love?


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I am going to turn myself in at the local Garda station. The OH convinced me to part with money so she could buy something expensive and all this was in the prelude to sex.
    In essence, I paid for sex. I am now a criminal and will be put on the sex offenders register and my kids taken off me.


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    #37
    Trent Houseboat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    catallus wrote: »
    Because sexual relations are the essence of our humanity; the taboo is against selling your humanity.

    Water is the essence of wetness.


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    #38
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    catallus wrote: »
    Sex is the physical expression of Love.

    I LOVE sex!!!

    Based on your logic just thinking about that makes my head explode.......and gives me a warm feeling in my pants!!


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    #39
    Breffnigolfer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭Breffnigolfer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I am going to turn myself in at the local Garda station. The OH convinced me to part with money so she could buy something expensive and all this was in the prelude to sex.
    In essence, I paid for sex. I am now a criminal and will be put on the sex offenders register and my kids taken off me.

    How did you end up with kids?


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    #40
    westcoast66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭westcoast66


    I lived in Brazil for while years ago. There was this girl that I met at a bar and got her number. I used to ring and she'd come over and we'd have sex. Then she'd ask for $100 for the taxi home. Was she a prostitute? Who knows. The lines seemed to be very blurred over there. Great arrangement though.


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    #41
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    westcoast66 wrote: »
    I lived in Brazil for while years ago. There was this girl that I met at a bar and got her number. I used to ring and she'd come over and we'd have sex. Then she'd ask for $100 for the taxi home. Was she a prostitute? Who knows. The lines seemed to be very blurred over there. Great arrangement though.

    Yeah but they have serious traffic issues there, she would be in the taxi for hrs so $100 is reasonable!!


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    #42
    who the fug
    Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    frag420 wrote: »
    Yeah but they have serious traffic issues there, she would be in the taxi for hrs so $100 is reasonable!!

    Yes but she books her Uncle Raoul to collect her, he kicks her back 10 dollar, if she got a cab off the street it would cost her 10


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    #43
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So animals can Love?

    They can't. Love is a human word to express a human condition. Applying human terms to non-human or inanimate objects is anthropomorphism.


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    #44
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    I've no issue with it from a morality point of view once those involved are consenting adults. *

    * and by consenting I guess I would include not having to do it out of necessity.


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    #45
    Gerry T
    Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    catallus wrote: »
    The exploitation would still be there, just that it would be legal?

    If the trade is legalised it takes it out of the hands of pimps. That way women that want to be prostitutes will work for a legal brothel. If men go there the street walkers, where many are forced, will be out of business and won't be forced.
    What's your thoughts on married women forced to give sex to their loving husbands, is that ok ? it happens...using your logic we should ban marriage.


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    #46
    Saipanne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭Saipanne


    If you want to find free prostitutes, just go on tinder.


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    #47
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I've no issue with it from a morality point of view once those involved are consenting adults. *

    * and by consenting I guess I would include not having to do it out of necessity.


    I understand the point you make but when ever is there a necessity to sell yourself for sex? Personally, I'd rob a shop or sell dope before turning to prostitution. There is such variety and opportunity in the life of crime!
    I don't knowingly know any prostitutes but I can't imagine a scenario whereby someone decides as a career (porn aside) to sleep with whoever offers you money.


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    #48
    Gerry T
    Registered Users Posts: 1,415 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    I understand the point you make but when ever is there a necessity to sell yourself for sex? Personally, I'd rob a shop or sell dope before turning to prostitution. There is such variety and opportunity in the life of crime!
    I don't knowingly know any prostitutes but I can't imagine a scenario whereby someone decides as a career (porn aside) to sleep with whoever offers you money.

    It's not necessity, if a person has no hangups about religion, can work 4-5 hrs a day for 200k a yr, why not ?

    I don't, I'm too ugly, wouldn't make enough to pay the heating bills !


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    #49
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    They can't. Love is a human word to express a human condition. Applying human terms to non-human or inanimate objects is anthropomorphism.
    As much as some people anthropomorphise animal behaviour, there's a danger of going too far the other way and separating human behaviour from the rest of the animal kingdom, we're not quite as unique and different as we like to think we are. We share basic functions with a lot of other animals, our species needed to form close bonds because of the way our groups are structured. There are other animals like chimps, dogs, dolphins, elephants that show signs of love, they may not be able to express it as easily as we can but it's hard to say they don't understand the emotion of love. We have in the past elevated humanity above the rest of the animal kingdom but at the end of the day we are just another animal, a weird one, but there's nothing all that unique about us, we just do more complex versions of things many other animal do.
    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    * and by consenting I guess I would include not having to do it out of necessity.
    But most people work out of necessity, we wouldn't do things we don't like unless we had too.
    lazybones32 wrote: »
    I don't knowingly know any prostitutes but I can't imagine a scenario whereby someone decides as a career (porn aside) to sleep with whoever offers you money.
    I think it could be quite easy for a woman to get into prostitution, women know men will pay for sex. If a woman was on the verge of bankruptcy and living on the street it would be quite easy for them to find a man willing to pay them, even just for company.


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    #50
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Gerry T wrote: »
    If the trade is legalised it takes it out of the hands of pimps.

    Yeah, the pimps will go on their merry way and let the women have all the profits to themselves! Why has no-one thought of this before.
    Gerry T wrote: »
    That way women that want to be prostitutes will work for a legal brothel. If men go there the street walkers, where many are forced, will be out of business and won't be forced.

    I don't really see how you can see this happening. "Street Walkers" are, afaik, usually attached to a brothel anyways?

    Legalising stuff does not negate the harm caused.


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    #51
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    so for the purpose of a simple conversation, we will be speaking about people who choose to sell sexual pleasure to another for money.
    If you wanted a high-level discussion then Legal Discussion forum would probably have suited better. They could advice on what the law actually says.


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    #52
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I think it could be quite easy for a woman to get into prostitution, women know men will pay for sex. If a woman was on the verge of bankruptcy and living on the street it would be quite easy for them to find a man willing to pay them, even just for company.

    That's a fair distance from the high class brothels with well looked after women with round the clock security for them to access and regular medical checks. A homeless woman will not command a high price for sex, it will be inherently unsafe and she is risking a lot through desperation. She may make that choice, but it's not a completely free choice.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    They can't. Love is a human word to express a human condition. Applying human terms to non-human or inanimate objects is anthropomorphism.

    The chemical nature of love is not unique to humans. So why do you assume that only humans love?


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    #54
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    psinno wrote: »
    I thought prostitution was currently legal.

    Currently sex work is not illegal, ie paying or being paid for a sex act but the government is going to change that.

    The new law will make it a criminal offence to pay someone for a sex act.

    This change in law was brought about in Sweden but it had not had the desired effect of 'ending demand' and has only put sex workers more at risk.

    The change in law has been lobbied by for Turn off the red Light Campaign which is run by Ruhma a 'rescue' service GNO which was set up by two of the orders of nuns which ran the Magdalene laundries.


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    #55
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The chemical nature of love is not unique to humans. So why do you assume that only humans love?

    Without getting deep into the philosophical aspects, love requires free-will. Animals have/experience bonding and attachments but it isn't love. Love isn't an emotion or just a feeling. Love is the name given to the human experience. The animal experience should go by a different name because it is something different.

    Does your dog/cat/fish love you the same way another member of the family does? Their brain produces chemicals too...


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    #56
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Without getting deep into the philosophical aspects, love requires free-will.
    why does it require free will? Humans don't have quite as much free will as we like to think we do. For the most part we're a fairly predictable machine that is under the illusion we have free will.
    Animals have/experience bonding and attachments but it isn't love. Love isn't an emotion or just a feeling. Love is the name given to the human experience.
    That sounds a bit airy fairy. If it was an experience you wouldn't necessarily get emotional about it.
    The animal experience should go by a different name because it is something different.
    how is it different? Do different parts of the brain activate in another animal like a dog, are there different chemicals involved?
    Does your dog/cat/fish love you the same way another member of the family does? Their brain produces chemicals too...
    Dogs in particular are masters at human emotions, they may well have developed to love just like the rest of their pack which consists of mostly humans. Most living creatures don't need the emotion, but any mammal that lives in a group needs to be able to bond with the rest of the group.


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    #57
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    ScumLord wrote: »
    why does it require free will? Humans don't have quite as much free will as we like to think we do. For the most part we're a fairly predictable machine that is under the illusion we have free will.

    What you talkin' 'bout Scumlord? Read some Hume ffs!
    ScumLord wrote: »
    Dogs in particular are masters at human emotions, they may well have developed to love just like the rest of their pack which consists of mostly humans. Most living creatures don't need the emotion, but any mammal that lives in a group needs to be able to bond with the rest of the group.

    You love your doggie, we get it, we all like doggies, they're delicious, but you were imprinted with that emotional template due to your place and time of birth so you ascribe some sort of human understanding upon them!? They have no idea about human emotions. They eat dogs in Asia, ffs!


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    #58
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    I like Cattalus.To everyone on here lets look at what it would feel like. How would you feel if you did it? If I prostituted myself I would feel ashamed and low in myself.How would you feel if you did it?


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ScumLord wrote: »
    While prostitution is probably the worst horrible job you can have

    I doubt that. I can think of several worse without even trying - probably many more if I actually put effort into it.
    catallus wrote: »
    Because sexual relations are the essence of our humanity; the taboo is against selling your humanity.

    Your humanity maybe. Intelligence - art - learning - love - these are the essence of mine. Sex is incidental and I would be no less human tomorrow than today were you to remove my genitalia entirely. Just a bit less _pleased_ with life perhaps :)
    catallus wrote: »
    I'm sure it suits your misanthropic pov to believe so. But we are above animals, just as we are beneath God.

    I see no reason to think there is a god - so no need to comment on that - but "above" animals is a bit of a stretch. Depends on your point of measurement I suppose - which will be subjective and self serving at best I suspect.
    catallus wrote: »
    The exploitation would still be there, just that it would be legal?

    It would likely be lessened. But our ability to identify it - deal with it - and prevent it would be increased with well executed regulation.

    But exploitation exists everywhere at some level. Even something as barely morally controversial as clothing - hosts a dark history of child labour and sweat houses.

    It is profit that causes exploitation and law breaking. Not prostitution.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    It leads to crime

    Lay out that causal link for me and how it works exactly. Do guys who just had sex and paid for it suddenly feel compelled to walk around the city committing crimes? Dunno about you - but after sex for me the lat thing I wanna do is sneak around in the cold breaking into houses :) I want to roll over and snuggle up.

    Any studies on this or just magazine articles?
    catallus wrote: »
    Sex is the physical expression of Love.

    One can no more validly sell sex and remain truly human than one can sell love.

    That is nonsense. Sex _can_ be that but it does not have to be. It can be an end in itself.

    Fine - you want to use sex one way - and not another - and thats ok :) But it is not a basis to go defining humanity by it just to dehumanise those who do not use it like you do. Your horse doing that is so high it puts Mohammads winged one to shame.
    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    If I prostituted myself I would feel ashamed and low in myself.How would you feel if you did it?

    Do not think I would feel bad at all. Would much prefer it to - say - being in the army and having to kill people with my guns. All to settle arguments other people are having - and are not intelligent enough to resolve peacefully.


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    #60
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Deleted User wrote: »

    That is nonsense. Sex _can_ be that but it does not have to be. It can be an end in itself.

    An. end. in. itself.

    Does not compute :confused:


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    catallus wrote: »
    An. end. in. itself.

    Does not compute :confused:

    If you could inform me specifically which of the 4 words you are specifically failing on - I can clarify readily.


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