deer poaching

stef22

FISMA wrote: »

No love for the lampers, but the greed I have seen in hunters , actually let's call them cullers is far worse, in my opinion.

How many on the board know someone that is shooting triple digit deer?


Blame and greed, there's plenty to go around.

Cannot agree more.

some lads shoot far too many deer , as if they were rabbits. Talked to a guy recently who shot 5 bucks in one morning during the rut. Why on earth who you want to take 5 in a couple of hours ? The same guy goes nuts when he hears about poachers ...

snipe49

stef22 wrote: »

Cannot agree more.

some lads shoot far too many deer , as if they were rabbits. Talked to a guy recently who shot 5 bucks in one morning during the rut. Why on earth who you want to take 5 in a couple of hours ? The same guy goes nuts when he hears about poachers ...

As long as they are getting anywhere from 80 to 100 euros for a deer from game dealers we will have this problem.

badshot

FISMA wrote: »

No love for the lampers, but the greed I have seen in hunters , actually let's call them cullers is far worse, in my opinion.

How many on the board know someone that is shooting triple digit deer?

I still think deer in Ireland are going to go the way the fish did during the Celtic Tiger heyday. Islands need to be more conservative than continents. Doubt many deer are going to swim to Eire.

Blame and greed, there's plenty to go around.

hard to disagree with you

luvhuntin

Its a certain type of money hungry little rat that shoots massive numbers to sell or poaches another mans land day or night. Theres no mystery men at this either. We know most if not all of them. Best thing to do is keep ringing the local Superintendent or Park ranger even if you feel your getting nowhere as if the same names keep popping up they will act on it. Vermin like this will be caught eventually as their pure greed will trip them up.

Vulture 1

luvhuntin wrote: »

Its a certain type of money hungry little rat that shoots massive numbers to sell or poaches another mans land day or night. Theres no mystery men at this either. We know most if not all of them. Best thing to do is keep ringing the local Superintendent or Park ranger even if you feel your getting nowhere as if the same names keep popping up they will act on it. Vermin like this will be caught eventually as their pure greed will trip them up.

I know of a guy who draws disability has done most of his life.
He shoots all week long no lamping involved.
Has done this for years.
Has a new house new car best of guns.
I don't think he is breaking any law.
What do you do.
There is no cap on what he can shoot.

I can look forward to hunting a empty ground after a long week and paying tax to keep the bas@@ in his landed gentry lifestyle.

fabwing

I was putting my one deer into a neighbours cooler as I eat for the table, and one lad had seven deer hung in it ready for the game dealer, how do you shoot seven deer in a couple of days, I get one every now and again with a ratio of about I deer every five stalks if I am lucky, he has a game license is this killing our sport.

vincentf

I wonder how we compare to other countries in the E.U, do they have poaching, lamping with guns and dogs. It would be very interesting to see the results. I've read there is poaching in the U.K. Anyone know if this happens in France, Germany or Spain.
Does this have a deeper reflection on the Irish psyche. Our ancestors poached fish and deer to stay alive during the famine and throughout our history. Is it a case that its the norm in families as young lads might grow up with their dad or grandad telling them they poached land that would have belonged to landlords etc, poaching is very old in Ireland.

FISMA

Vulture 1 wrote: »

I don't think he is breaking any law.
...
There is no cap on what he can shoot.

There's the problem!

First, there are no laws against shooting 1000 deer, for example, in Ireland.

Second, if there were, there is effectively, no enforcement of laws.

Even worse, in Ireland, if I so desired, I could traipse about my land and drop every single deer I see and let them rot in place, correct? Someone correct me if I am wrong, however, I know of no "Wanton Waste" type laws in Ireland.

How many of us know lads shooting deer for y'er man's dags down the road?

I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut, but I honestly believe that eradication of Irish deer is being allowed either by apathy or lobbying.

It is no secret that in many parts of the world, the automobile insurance companies are the biggest sponsors of deer hunting. In the States, the average deer-car collision cost is $3000. Deer-Moose-Elk collisions kill more people in the States than all deaths due to rifles combined.

I do not know too many farmers that love having deer on their land. I understand their position. I also understand how tight profit margins are for dairy farmers.

Consider having the automobile insurance and farmer's lobby against you. That's a lot of political pressure.

Let's put my above hypothesis aside. The fact remains that in Ireland, you can shoot a deer for half of the year. You can use a moderator and reporting is on the honor system. Ridiculous.

You can shoot a doe in February, when the probability is that she is pregnant. Shooting does in general, let alone pregnant, is done in areas to decline numbers. In some areas I have hunted, where deer are overpopulated, they force you to shoot a doe before you can take an antlered buck.

Personally, I have to love the audacity of some "outfitters" that will take you out hunting and publicly advertise their services. Licences? Yeah right. When this sort of illegal activity is publicly flaunted, what does that say about the laws and their enforcement?

There is not a doubt in my mind that they allow people to illegally possess the "house" gun and illegally shoot their deer on their lands.

With all that said, if you are shooting multiple deer for your family's pot, no problem. Need a deer for Aunt Mary? No problem. Donating one to the local food bank? God Bless you.

There are plenty of ways to fix the current system, but the ideas are falling on deaf ears.

The honor system is working about as well as it did for fishing. Again, at least fish can swim to Eire, deer, not so well!

To be honest, I actually look down more on some hunters than on lampers. I don't expect good behaviour from law breakers. But, given the current laws, too many people are legally doing more damage than the lawbreakers.

camoman1

I agree totally with vulture1, some lads are shooting huge numbers of deer to be sold on to game dealers. How is it right when two lads have a deer licence each and one of them shoots 100 deer and one shoots 20 in a season.i know of three people shooting large numbers of deer and not declaring them, and the same people have been doing so for a long time and continue to do so if left to it, theres no level playing field in deer hunting, some lads would shoot a thousand deer in a season if they could, all for financial gain to.some shoot for sport and some shoot for profit simple as.

deeksofdoom

Vulture 1 wrote: »

I know of a guy who draws disability has done most of his life.
He shoots all week long no lamping involved.
Has done this for years.
Has a new house new car best of guns.
I don't think he is breaking any law.
What do you do.
There is no cap on what he can shoot.

I can look forward to hunting a empty ground after a long week and paying tax to keep the bas@@ in his landed gentry lifestyle.

The Silverfox....

Grizzly 45

vincentf wrote: »

I wonder how we compare to other countries in the E.U, do they have poaching, lamping with guns and dogs. It would be very interesting to see the results. I've read there is poaching in the U.K. Anyone know if this happens in France, Germany or Spain.
Does this have a deeper reflection on the Irish psyche. Our ancestors poached fish and deer to stay alive during the famine and throughout our history. Is it a case that its the norm in families as young lads might grow up with their dad or grandad telling them they poached land that would have belonged to landlords etc, poaching is very old in Ireland.

For Germany.It was rife after the war,but that was because people were literally starving and the country was utter anarchy for about three years,with plenty of war material lying around,Allied occupation forces plundering the countryside,and a thriving black market.Poaching was literally a life or death matter,as the anti poaching laws of Germany from a century ago,and kept by the 3rd Reich were still in force under Allied occupation .That poachers could be shot on sight,and owning a gun under Allied martial law was a death sentence anyway![Apprently that law on shooting poachers still stands today.] Nowadays,it is virtually non existant,as they have a different system to us.You have a let,the game is your property.You are responsible for any damage it does to farmers crops.Be it wild boar in the spud patch or a fox stealing the farmers chickens. Even wild game animals run over on the road are calculated into your annual cull number.Its a reportable traffic accident to hit and kill game,and chucking it in your car and heading off is considerd vechicle poaching.IE use the car as the killing tool.So with that kind of responsibility,or potential financial loss you can be sure the German hunter is out as much as possible in his let and knows virtually everyone who comes and goes into his let.Also you are entitled to carry a pistol on your person on the let for humane dispatch of game or if need be arresting chacters up to no good.It is an arrestable offence and is punishable by 5 years and forfiture of your liscense both hunting and drivers and any equipment used in the crime.That can include your house if you were butchering at home! Drug dealing would be an easier and more profitable crime .

The Irish situation is I think a combination of a lot of things.Bravado,greed,stupidity being all in there. Bravado in the romantic idea of in the best "Flurry Knox" [of the Irish RM TV seris...Remember that one?] style of sticking it to their lordships up in the big house tradition of poaching the odd pheasent or deer. While still a crime no matter what,it is more a nusiance than than malicious. Differnt story if you have an entire gang coming in and cleaning out an entire pheasent spinney or a herd of deer. thats no better if you robbed the entire beer cooler in Tescos.Greed fits in here too.Money to be made the easy way by both shooter and game dealer.Stupidity in the sense we have edijts in NPWS and IFA saying things "If I had it my way there wouldnt be a deer left in Ireland." With morons like that in charge,its almost a carte blanche for the unscrouplous to go and shoot everything under their lamp. The Sect 42 is the worst thing we have here on our laws...It is handed out IMO way too easy for the most dubious reasons
,but thats a symptom of bad laws here,in the sense there is no other option or responsibility for proper game management.

Again I say it.Take the money out of this equation and hit HARD those who are caught with equipment loss,liscense loss,vechicle loss,and ban them from owning firearms for at least 10 years. Game dealers are making so much cash that they are literally calculating in in the unscrouplous ones at least,the max a DC fine can throw at them into a busisness running cost.

Cass

I've split out the newer posts into their own thread. However some replies are quoting posts from closed accounts so i'm closing this thread as there will be no responses or furthering of the debate from those posters.