Time for a revolution??

Help!!!!

With the protest happening on December 10th at the Dail & reading articles like the following

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-irish-government-is-not-required-to-implement-water-charges-on-households-1.2009288#.VG861Xo9EMs.facebook

Would it not be a good idea to over through the present government like they do in other countries? ( Obviously,peaceful like )
I mean there will be thousands already there, so it would be like killing two birds with one stone.
What harm would it do?

Mr. Incognito

Id love to join in but i will be at work and then i have to do my christmas shopping.

Fine for some.

Help!!!!

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Id love to join in but i will be at work and then i have to do my christmas shopping.

Fine for some.

You could come down later when you get the time.....revolutions take time

Kerrydude1981

Thread needs this tune OP

SEPT 23 1989

It will be a biggest demonstration the country has ever seen

Plazaman

How to overthrow the Government.

Step 1 : Gather outside the Dail with Banners
Step 2 : ????
Step 3 : Enjoy free pints in Dail Bar and toast our success.

kneemos

One march and the country is supposedly on the verge of revolution.
Media hype to sell a few papers.

Guarantee you come the next election it'll be a toss up between FF,FG and Labour,just like it always is.

Help!!!!

Plazaman wrote: »

How to overthrow the Government.

Step 1 : Gather outside the Dail with Banners
Step 2 : ????
Step 3 : Enjoy free pints in Dail Bar and toast our success.

Sounds like a plan

omega man

Help!!!! wrote: »

With the protest happening on December 10th at the Dail & reading articles like the following

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-irish-government-is-not-required-to-implement-water-charges-on-households-1.2009288#.VG861Xo9EMs.facebook

Would it not be a good idea to over through the present government like they do in other countries? ( Obviously,peaceful like )
I mean there will be thousands already there, so it would be like killing two birds with one stone.
What harm would it do?

No.

Come on really? people usually attempt to over throw dictator led, oppressive and non democratic regimes. Yes our political system is far from perfect to say the least and this government have failed to deliver on a number of electoral promises but talk like this is absurd.

The problem is that there is no real alternative to this goverment. We need new ideas, not revolution.

DeadHand

Let the hyperbole commence (again)!

Reading this forum you'd be forgiven for thinking it was Russia circa 1917 out there.

Tail Docker

Be right behind you, just have to get a coffee and a smoke to wake up first. Ye fire ahead though.

Help!!!!

omega man wrote: »

No.

Come on really? people usually attempt to over throw dictator led, oppressive and non democratic regimes. Yes our political system is far from perfect to say the least and this government have failed to deliver on a number of electoral promises but talk like this is absurd.

The problem is that there is no real alternative to this goverment. We need new ideas, not revolution.

This is After Hours.....get in the spirit of things?

Cantremember

Call for revolution in AH? Outrageous. We will start wiping our arses with a different hand and report the results. THIS IS AH! *kicks OP in the chest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZeYVIWz99I

Mr. Incognito

Help!!!! wrote: »

You could come down later when you get the time.....revolutions take time

No worries. Ill meet you at the spire at four. I might be late if theres a queue for the nespresso pods in bts

Save some cars for me to burn.

Help!!!!

Cantremember wrote: »

Call for revolution in AH? Outrageous. We will start wiping our arses with a different hand and report the results. THIS IS AH! *kicks OP in the chest.

Could I suggest using toilet roll?

Cantremember

Help!!!! wrote: »

This is After Hours.....get in the spirit of things?

You got there first. I got there better and bigger.

Help!!!!

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

No worries. Ill meet you at the spire at four. I might be late if theres a queue for the nespresso pods in bts

Save some cars for me to burn.

Fit in a bit of xmas shopping as well

Cantremember

Help!!!! wrote: »

Could I suggest using toilet roll?

Vat is dat ze toilet roll?

Cantremember

omega man wrote: »

No.

Come on really? people usually attempt to over throw dictator led, oppressive and non democratic regimes. Yes our political system is far from perfect to say the least and this government have failed to deliver on a number of electoral promises but talk like this is absurd.

The problem is that there is no real alternative to this goverment. We need new ideas, not revolution.

They haven't just failed to deliver. They lied. We need new ideas and new people.

Flange/Flanders

No.

If people want to get rid of the government, then wait 18 months time and you'll get your chance.

Talk of rebellion is irresponsible and ridiculous. All the multinationals would pull out here, we wouldnt be able to borrow on the markets (which we still to, dont forget our budget deficit).

Then what happens after that? Do we leave the EU? It really annoys me when people talk about leaving the EU, supporting ourselves. People forget that we're a small open island economy that is dependent on foreign trade.

Finally, while the government are making a mess of some policies (mess over medical cards, set up of IW etc), it's hard to argue that the economy is beginning to turn around. Increasing consumer confidence for example.

Help!!!!

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Talk of rebellion is irresponsible and ridiculous. All the multinationals would pull out here, we wouldnt be able to borrow on the markets (which we still to, dont forget our budget deficit).

Then what happens after that? Do we leave the EU? It really annoys me when people talk about leaving the EU, supporting ourselves. People forget that we're a small open island economy that is dependent on foreign trade.

Yes leave the EU, countries will still trade with us. The UK wants to also leave the EU & they will trade with us & so will counties outside of the EU.
The world is a lot bigger than what Germany & France will have you believe

Jawgap

Help!!!! wrote: »

With the protest happening on December 10th at the Dail & reading articles like the following

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-irish-government-is-not-required-to-implement-water-charges-on-households-1.2009288#.VG861Xo9EMs.facebook

Would it not be a good idea to over through the present government like they do in other countries? ( Obviously,peaceful like )
I mean there will be thousands already there, so it would be like killing two birds with one stone.
What harm would it do?

Peacefully overthrowing the government is called an election - we'll have one in about 18 months, like we had in 2011.

Personally, I think the Dec 10th thing is a waste of time. It fails to fundamentally understand the mentality of the politicians we elect in Ireland.

150,000 people on the streets might look good on the news and worry them but not overly so - however, if 3,000 people turned up at each Labour TD's next constituency clinic it would scare the living sh1te out of them - you'd have an election announced in 3 months as they 'dash for the lifeboats.'

Or if you want to be a bit more 'subtle' look at those Labour TDs who got in on the coat tails of other people's transfers - target their constituencies and I reckon they'd be quick enough to pull their support from Labour and the government and take their chances as an independent.

Flange/Flanders

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes leave the EU, countries will still trade with us. The UK wants to also leave the EU & they will trade with us & so will counties outside of the EU.
The world is a lot bigger than what Germany & France will have you believe

Yes but we trade with a lot more than England as well. A lot of American companies are situated here in order to be a gateway into Europe.

smcgiff

So, you've been successful in your revolution. Enda and Joan are wearing sack cloth and are holed up in Mountjoy. Congratulations.

You're addressing your mighty band of revolutionaries, the cameras are poised, the nation awaits with baited breath on your commands. Destiny awaits and you say/promise ...

Jawgap

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes leave the EU, countries will still trade with us. The UK wants to also leave the EU & they will trade with us & so will counties outside of the EU.
The world is a lot bigger than what Germany & France will have you believe

Of course other countries will trade with us if we leave the EU - and I'm sure the tariffs they'll be able to apply will be modest enough without adding too much to the cost of producing goods here on the periphery of Europe.

And of course no country we would then be trading with would be inclined to introduce punitive tariffs to address our low corporation tax - and even if they did sure wouldn't the FDI continue because after all those MNCs are here for the 'talent' :rolleyes:

sjb25

smcgiff wrote: »

So, you've been successful in your revolution. Enda and Joan are wearing sack cloth and are holed up in Mountjoy. Congratulations.

You're addressing your mighty band of revolutionaries, the cameras are poised, the nation awaits with baited breath on your commands. Destiny awaits and you say/promise ...

Guy:Incognito

Cantremember wrote: »

They haven't just failed to deliver. They lied. We need new ideas and new people.

Throw up a list of the people we can vote for that have never lied, just so we know in advance.

Seems people want it both ways. Put it in your manifesto that water charges will be brought in and then people vote for you but roll out **** like "sure people dont expect parties to keep to manifesto's" or dont put it in then your a liar for not having it there and bringing it in.

Grayson

Help!!!! wrote: »

Yes leave the EU, countries will still trade with us. The UK wants to also leave the EU & they will trade with us & so will counties outside of the EU.
The world is a lot bigger than what Germany & France will have you believe

And the world thinks a lot less of us that you want to believe.
We leave the EU. Multinationals leave here. And yes they will. No free travel zone. No open market. nothing like that. IT, Pharmaceuticals ... all of them leave. We'd be left with domestic businesses like agriculture and maybe tourism.

Welcome to Ireland c.1970. An utter ****ehole.

I often wonder how people get so delusional that they think a country can leave the worlds largest trading bloc with no negative side effects.

Shure it'll be grand. Shure doesn't everyone love us. Shure won't it be a paradise.

smcgiff

sjb25 wrote: »

Is that an invitation?

Guy:Incognito

Grayson wrote: »

And the world thinks a lot less of us that you want to believe.
We leave the EU. Multinationals leave here. And yes they will. No free travel zone. No open market. nothing like that. IT, Pharmaceuticals ... all of them leave. We'd be left with domestic businesses like agriculture and maybe tourism.

Welcome to Ireland c.1970. An utter ****ehole.

I often wonder how people get so delusional that they think a country can leave the worlds largest trading bloc with no negative side effects.

Shure it'll be grand. Shure doesn't everyone love us. Shure won't it be a paradise.

The church can look after us again.

mad muffin

smcgiff wrote: »

So, you've been successful in your revolution. Enda and Joan are wearing sack cloth and are holed up in Mountjoy. Congratulations.

You're addressing your mighty band of revolutionaries, the cameras are poised, the nation awaits with baited breath on your commands. Destiny awaits and you say/promise ...

PEOPLE OF IRELAND!!

*crickets* *tumble*

PEOPLE OF IRELAND!!

PEOPLE OF IRELAND!

I… I…

It's like this…

PEOPLE…

I promise to abolish all water charges!


*thunderous applause*

*wrings ones hands* MUAHAHAAAAAAA!!! Fools…

Joshua J

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Throw up a list of the people we can vote for that have never lied, just so we know in advance.

Seems people want it both ways. Put it in your manifesto that water charges will be brought in and then people vote for you but roll out **** like "sure people dont expect parties to keep to manifesto's" or dont put it in then your a liar for not having it there and bringing it in.

How's about rather than accepting lies as part of political reality we demand honesty and accountability. There's nothing more pointless than saying "well yeah they lied but sure they're in now you can vote them out in 18 months. That's it." Once a party loses its mandate it should be game over. Like FG at present.

lufties

Jawgap wrote: »

Peacefully overthrowing the government is called an election - we'll have one in about 18 months, like we had in 2011.

Personally, I think the Dec 10th thing is a waste of time. It fails to fundamentally understand the mentality of the politicians we elect in Ireland.

150,000 people on the streets might look good on the news and worry them but not overly so - however, if 3,000 people turned up at each Labour TD's next constituency clinic it would scare the living sh1te out of them - you'd have an election announced in 3 months as they 'dash for the lifeboats.'

Or if you want to be a bit more 'subtle' look at those Labour TDs who got in on the coat tails of other people's transfers - target their constituencies and I reckon they'd be quick enough to pull their support from Labour and the government and take their chances as an independent.

A revolution is required now. By the time 2016 comes, election campaigns will be underway and the liars and spinners will be out in force to con their way into power.

Jawgap

lufties wrote: »

A revolution is required now. By the time 2016 comes, election campaigns will be underway and the liars and spinners will be out in force to con their way into power.

Why a revolution? Why wreck the place - we'll only end up having to pay for it.

The election process (and to be fair Irish republican democracy) is fairly open here.

Anyone can run, canvass and be elected - likewise people can highlight prospective candidates as liars, spinners, shysters etc.

Then the people decide - and if they send the same shower back then much and all as I think that will demonstrate the collective stupidity of the Irish electorate, an undemocratic revolution is not the answer.

And, yes there is a huge accountability deficit in Ireland - and everyone wants accountability as long as it's for the other guy!

Guy:Incognito

Joshua J wrote: »

How's about rather than accepting lies as part of political reality we demand honesty and accountability. There's nothing more pointless than saying "well yeah they lied but sure they're in now you can vote them out in 18 months. That's it." Once a party loses its mandate it should be game over. Like FG at present.

They didnt lie about water charges though. They said theyd bring them in and did.

Who decides when they dont have a mandate?The mob? How big does the mob have to be ?

Does this swing back and forward on a weekly basis? General election every fortnight is it?

What happens if they have a GE next week and say, SF , get elected and in the reality of running the country it turns out some of their policies arent workable so have to be scrapped? Another GE in January?

What consistutes a lie? Anything you say in an election/put in your manifesto that you dont 100% stick to? No government would ever last beyond a couple o fmonths.

I hope your saving up a nic ebig list of every promise and idea put out by all the opposition so we can scrutinise it in future. You wouldnt want to look hypcritical.

lufties

Jawgap wrote: »

Why a revolution? Why wreck the place - we'll only end up having to pay for it.

The election process (and to be fair Irish republican democracy) is fairly open here.

Anyone can run, canvass and be elected - likewise people can highlight prospective candidates as liars, spinners, shysters etc.

Then the people decide - and if they send the same shower back then much and all as I think that will demonstrate the collective stupidity of the Irish electorate, an undemocratic revolution is not the answer.

And, yes there is a huge accountability deficit in Ireland - and everyone wants accountability as long as it's for the other guy!

Well in fairness, fg/lab spun their way into power a few years ago, and blatantly lied to a vunerable electorate..The current system of gravy train cronyism and corruption has to stop. The political classes need to be taught a lesson or nothing will ever change.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

No worries. Ill meet you at the spire at four. I might be late if theres a queue for the nespresso pods in bts

Save some cars for me to burn.

Pathetic excuse! The new nespresso "boutique" just off Grafton St should reduce the queue in BTs.

Joshua J

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They didnt lie about water charges though. They said theyd bring them in and did.

Who decides when they dont have a mandate?The mob? How big does the mob have to be ?

Does this swing back and forward on a weekly basis? General election every fortnight is it?

What happens if they have a GE next week and say, SF , get elected and in the reality of running the country it turns out some of their policies arent workable so have to be scrapped? Another GE in January?

What consistutes a lie? Anything you say in an election/put in your manifesto that you dont 100% stick to? No government would ever last beyond a couple o fmonths.

I hope your saving up a nic ebig list of every promise and idea put out by all the opposition so we can scrutinise it in future. You wouldnt want to look hypcritical.

You're not being critical at all though. You're arguing for tradition and the system as is. It doesn't work and is not fit for purpose. Who decides you say. Well the people of course and they have spoken recently. Traditionalists don't like it but people are eager for change and want honesty and accountability. FG have gone back on their election promises, simple as. They promised change, a new republic and did nothing but carry on like FF. Now unlike you I have no party favorites. They all live by their word, government or opposition.

smcgiff

Joshua J wrote: »

You're not being critical at all though. You're arguing for tradition and the system as is. It doesn't work and is not fit for purpose. Who decides you say. Well the people of course and they have spoken recently. Traditionalists don't like it but people are eager for change and want honesty and accountability. FG have gone back on their election promises, simple as. They promised change, a new republic and did nothing but carry on like FF. Now unlike you I have no party favorites. They all live by their word, government or opposition.

You want change. But offer no specifics. Would you like a dictator perhaps?

How about no government, something like madmax law. Would that suit?

Anything specific, rather than wishful thinking?

Grayson

lufties wrote: »

A revolution is required now. By the time 2016 comes, election campaigns will be underway and the liars and spinners will be out in force to con their way into power.

have you seen some of the lefties out there? Most are grand but there's that group that believe in some amount of shyte

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/jan2012/sovereign_seal_pr_release_with_images__links.pdf

they have more bull**** per cubic centimetre than most politicians

Guy:Incognito

Joshua J wrote: »

Who decides you say. Well the people of course and they have spoken recently. .

I already asked. How many of "the people" have decided? Is 150,000 out of 4,500,000 at a march , "the people".
Plus they're marching again the water charges, which FG told them before the election would be brought in. So not a lie. Sticking to the manisfesto is what it is.

Jawgap

lufties wrote: »

Well in fairness, fg/lab spun their way into power a few years ago, and blatantly lied to a vunerable electorate..The current system of gravy train cronyism and corruption has to stop. The political classes need to be taught a lesson or nothing will ever change.

I don't disagree with anything you've written.

But the way to teach them a lesson is through the ballot box........and in the mean time if people feel aggrieved, dig out the last of election results - do the maths to identify the vulnerable TDs and hammer them through civil peaceful, protest.

TDs only want one thing and that's re-election and they'll do just about anything to get it. If you identify those TDs in the government parties, esp Labour, who are vulnerable (low first preferences, reliant on transfers etc) and make it plain their continued support for the current government will lead to their electoral ruin because people will campaign against them (not just not vote for them) - watch how that changes their outlook and priorities.

Arbiter of Good Taste

smcgiff wrote: »

You want change. But offer no specifics. Would you like a dictator perhaps?

How about no government, something like madmax law. Would that suit?

Anything specific, rather than wishful thinking?

Funnily, the discussion panel on George Hook yesterday were discussing whether a dictatorship is what we need. In theory, it may not be the worst idea as every political party is only looking to the next election. A dictatorship on the other hand might actually get something done if it was guaranteed a free hand (economically) for, say, 15-20 years.

That's just the theory though....

Grayson

lufties wrote: »

Well in fairness, fg/lab spun their way into power a few years ago, and blatantly lied to a vunerable electorate..The current system of gravy train cronyism and corruption has to stop. The political classes need to be taught a lesson or nothing will ever change.

They didn't spin themselves into power. When did that happen? They were an alternative to FF. And an inanimate carbon rod would have gotten more votes than FF at that point.

Guy:Incognito

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Funnily, the discussion panel on George Hook yesterday were discussing whether a dictatorship is what we need. In theory, it may not be the worst idea as every political party is only looking to the next election. A dictatorship on the other hand might actually get something done if it was guaranteed a free hand (economically) for, say, 15-20 years.

That's just the theory though....

So a democratic dictator that leaves when we want them too?

phater phagan

Will it be televised? If so, I'll watch it then...

The Ghost of Bill Hicks

omega man wrote: »

No.

Come on really? people usually attempt to over throw dictator led, oppressive and non democratic regimes. Yes our political system is far from perfect to say the least and this government have failed to deliver on a number of electoral promises but talk like this is absurd.

The problem is that there is no real alternative to this goverment. We need new ideas, not revolution.

Implementation of new ideas is a revolution.

omega666

So who's going to replace the current government after this revolution has taken place? Who's this magically party that will stamp out cronyism, never make a mistake and never lie to the people? Fianna Fail? Sinn Fein?

Joshua J

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I already asked. How many of "the people" have decided? Is 150,000 out of 4,500,000 at a march , "the people".
Plus they're marching again the water charges, which FG told them before the election would be brought in. So not a lie. Sticking to the manisfesto is what it is.

Your problem is you think this begins and ends with water charges. I get the feeling I'd be wasting my time explaining to you that it's not about IW but a culmination of years of bad governance.

Even in your worst case scenario a general election would be called and you, like everyone else, gets a vote. The sky wouldn't fall in. You could even vote for Enda again. Double the love.

smcgiff

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So a democratic dictator that leaves when we want them too?

Yeah - because that's how it usually works right.

I'd be happy with me as dictator. Not so much anybody else.

Grayson

Joshua J wrote: »

You're not being critical at all though. You're arguing for tradition and the system as is. It doesn't work and is not fit for purpose. Who decides you say. Well the people of course and they have spoken recently. Traditionalists don't like it but people are eager for change and want honesty and accountability. FG have gone back on their election promises, simple as. They promised change, a new republic and did nothing but carry on like FF. Now unlike you I have no party favorites. They all live by their word, government or opposition.

Traditionalists = people who don't like violence and who think the best way of deciding what everyone wants is to actually conduct a poll.