Belmond Grand Hibernian

Vic_08

end of the road wrote: »

didn't the 450 class not operate that line? i know they were a railcar rather then loco and coaches (well, yeah) but they were mark 3 body shells.

They are not the same, Mk3 coaching stock are 22.5m, the BR MU stock based on the Mk3s including the NIR 450 are 20m.

Captain Chaos

GM228 wrote: »

Are you sure about that?

I remember the MkIII NIR gauging trials in the 80s, but they didn't actually use a MKIII oddly enough!

NIR used a flat wagon with a wooden frame simulating the MkIII body shape. I don't know if the trials were ever photographed?

MkIIIs have worked past Belfast, to Bangor, but not sure if an actual MkIII went anywhere else past York Road.

Yeah in the mid 80s a mixed train of 2-3 Mk3s with 2-3 NIR Mk2s ran around the NIR network. There are a few photos of those trails.

GM228

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yeah in the mid 80s a mixed train of 2-3 Mk3s with 2-3 NIR Mk2s ran around the NIR network. There are a few photos of those trails.

I checked with a friend who worked in NIR who tells me this wasn't a trial but a once off MkIII special which included a NIR MkII dining car (never knew about that working), so a MKIII has worked to Portrush with passengers in the past, but apparently MkIIIs were never officially cleared and the special operated with special permission.

What I wonder is why was the NIR MkII dining car included in the rake considering it couldn't be powered by the MkIII set so how it was powered I don't know and it was used to serve breakfast, there were 2 MkIII standards and a MkIII EGV so perhaps IE were short of a dining car?

EDIT: The MkIII/MkII set ran on 12th June 1985, with NIRs 547 being added to the MKIII set for a Portrush-Dublin special charter train for the Permanent Way Institution.

He also confirmed my memory of the NIR MkIII trials utilising a wagon with a timber frame as opposed to an actual MkIII.

tabbey

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yeah in the mid 80s a mixed train of 2-3 Mk3s with 2-3 NIR Mk2s ran around the NIR network. There are a few photos of those trails.

My understanding was that Irish Rail / CIE Mk II were vacuum braked while Mk III were air braked.
Am I to understand that NIR Mk II were air braked, or was I mistaken?

GM228

tabbey wrote: »

My understanding was that Irish Rail / CIE Mk II were vacuum braked while Mk III were air braked.
Am I to understand that NIR Mk II were air braked, or was I mistaken?

Correct, the special was a CIE MkIII and NIR MkII, both air braked.

Vic_08

tabbey wrote: »

My understanding was that Irish Rail / CIE Mk II were vacuum braked while Mk III were air braked.
Am I to understand that NIR Mk II were air braked, or was I mistaken?

Correct, NIR coaching stock and the 80/450 DEMUs were all 2 pipe air braked.

CIE was vacuum up to the Mk3.

GM228

Vic_08 wrote: »

Correct, NIR coaching stock and the 80/450 DEMUs were all 2 pipe air braked.

CIE was vacuum up to the Mk3.

80s were NIR 3-pipe air, the rest were UIC 2-pipe air.

However, NIR MkIIs were originally Westinghouse 3-pipe air brake (as were the Hunslet 101s which hauled them), but the MkIIs were converted to the 2-pipe system in January 1981 to coincide with the introduction of the 111s.

The 101s were also changed to 2-pipe air.

Cookie_Monster

Is there any indication what 216 is going to look like? The current green looks like undercoat, I hope that's not the final colour, especially coupled with the dark blue of the carriages.

Captain Chaos

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Is there any indication what 216 is going to look like? The current green looks like undercoat, I hope that's not the final colour, especially coupled with the dark blue of the carriages.

It will be dark blue like the Mk3s when it goes in for painting next week. The green is an undercoat primer to protect it as it has spent many months outside Inchicore prior to testing. I believe Belond wanted to keep the final livery under wraps for as long as possible but the Mk3 photos that got out from Kilmarnock in Scotland let the cat out of the bag early.

GM228

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Is there any indication what 216 is going to look like? The current green looks like undercoat, I hope that's not the final colour, especially coupled with the dark blue of the carriages.

As Captain Chaos has said it will be the same colour as the MkIIIs which is Cobalt Blue, a central panel will have the Grand Hibernian logo as below the same way they apply the Irish Rail/Intercity logos on the 201s.



Towards the No.1 end of the loco a full height light blue GH logo (just the intertwined logo) will also appear covering the area where the cab doors are.

Should also be receiving new Irish and English River Dodder nameplates apparently which will be blue and silver instead of the usual black and brass.

Jamie2k9

Hope the yellow ends don't clash with the blue to much.

A recent change in UK regulations means yellow ends are not required anymore I'm told. Wonder will authorities follow the same over here as we tend to do whatever the UK does in most things.

Would love to get a spin on the service but I don't intend on paying the cost. They would make a lot of cash if they offered a once off day trip for spotters etc.

I quiet like 216 colors and the common ones now, better than the mess they made of the 071's.

ClovenHoof

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hope the yellow ends don't clash with the blue to much.

Complementry colours. Will look very pleasing.

GM228

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hope the yellow ends don't clash with the blue to much.

A recent change in UK regulations means yellow ends are not required anymore I'm told. Wonder will authorities follow the same over here as we tend to do whatever the UK does in most things.

Would love to get a spin on the service but I don't intend on paying the cost. They would make a lot of cash if they offered a once off day trip for spotters etc.

I quiet like 216 colors and the common ones now, better than the mess they made of the 071's.

The yellow ends in the UK are required under the rail group standards, no such standards actually exist here, they arn't actually a requirement, just something which is done to provide extra visibility, but 216 will have yellow ends.

Going back to the UK, the rules on yellow ends changed last year following an industry consultation, but yellow ends are still required unless the headlights meet a certain requirement regarding light output and nothing meets that standard yet, the Crossrail class 345s are expected to be the first to meet the requirements and have no yellow ends.

savagethegoat

http://www.brightonbelle.com/


no yellow ends here

Captain Chaos

savagethegoat wrote: »

http://www.brightonbelle.com/


no yellow ends here

I believe it's to do with "grandfather rights" as it's a restoration vehicle. You don't see the Flying Scotsman going around with a yellow smokebox either.

savagethegoat

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I believe it's to do with "grandfather rights" as it's a restoration vehicle. You don't see the Flying Scotsman going around with a yellow smokebox either.

I don't think so. In it's later days it had a yellow end (not FS) so grandfather rights wouldn't apply. It is having state of the art headlghts though, in lieu of yellow.

Jamie2k9

GM228 wrote: »

The yellow ends in the UK are required under the rail group standards, no such standards actually exist here, they arn't actually a requirement, just something which is done to provide extra visibility, but 216 will have yellow ends.

Going back to the UK, the rules on yellow ends changed last year following an industry consultation, but yellow ends are still required unless the headlights meet a certain requirement regarding light output and nothing meets that standard yet, the Crossrail class 345s are expected to be the first to meet the requirements and have no yellow ends.

Thanks for clarifying, are they effective, the ends of the ICR's are more an orange than yellow except those ones which got smashed up and a few are carrying the same shade as 201's.

Anyway hope it looks well when its painted.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying, are they effective, the ends of the ICR's are more an orange than yellow except those ones which got smashed up and a few are carrying the same shade as 201's.

Anyway hope it looks well when its painted.

It will look like the NIR 201s when they were delivered in NIR blue with the yellow panels, just 216 will be in a much darker shade. I think it will look better with the warning panels than all over blue which would be very dull looking imo.

Del.Monte

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Hope the yellow ends don't clash with the blue to much.

A recent change in UK regulations means yellow ends are not required anymore I'm told. Wonder will authorities follow the same over here as we tend to do whatever the UK does in most things.

Would love to get a spin on the service but I don't intend on paying the cost. They would make a lot of cash if they offered a once off day trip for spotters etc.

I quiet like 216 colors and the common ones now, better than the mess they made of the 071's.

I wouldn't mind a trip on it either but I doubt Belmond will want a bunch of beer swilling, bacon buttie munching crazies on their pristine stock. Can you imagine the usual ITG mob on a day out on it?

Grandeeod

Del.Monte wrote: »

I wouldn't mind a trip on it either but I doubt Belmond will want a bunch of beer swilling, bacon buttie munching crazies on their pristine stock. Can you imagine the usual ITG mob on a day out on it?

LOL!

I'm booked for September. Sure what's 6.5K for a great 3 day trip for two!

I'll report back.......NOT!

GM228

savagethegoat wrote: »

http://www.brightonbelle.com/


no yellow ends here

Because it will have the new spec lights like the 345s.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I believe it's to do with "grandfather rights" as it's a restoration vehicle. You don't see the Flying Scotsman going around with a yellow smokebox either.

There are no "grandfather rights" in relation to yellow ends, simply exemptions which only steam locos enjoy and not diesel, that is why some mainline registered diesels require yellow ends when they may have never had them originally.

The Brighton Belle did previously have yellow ends so even if grandfather rights applied they wouldn't quality as already stated.





The Brighton Belle isn't exempt from the group standard, but it is to receive modern lights which meet the new standards I mentioned previously meaning it won't need the yellow warning panels.

savagethegoat

GM228 wrote: »

Because it will have the new spec lights like the 345s.



There are no "grandfather rights" in relation to yellow ends, simply exemptions which only steam locos enjoy and not diesel, that is why some mainline registered diesels require yellow ends when they may have never had them originally.

The Brighton Belle did previously have yellow ends so even if grandfather rights applied they wouldn't quality as already stated.





The Brighton Belle isn't exempt from the group standard, but it is to receive modern lights which meet the new standards I mentioned previously meaning it won't need the yellow warning panels.

I already said that

GM228

savagethegoat wrote: »

I already said that

Simply backing you up and adding further to it, you may have missed my "as already stated" comment

GM228

August 30th is confirmed start date for the Grand Hibernian.

Del.Monte

I'm sure that the question has already been asked - and answered somewhere in the thread - why will the train not be traversing the most scenic route in the country?

metrovick001

Ohh God no.

Del.Monte

metrovick001 wrote: »

Ohh God no.

Is that it?

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm sure that the question has already been asked - and answered somewhere in the thread - why will the train not be traversing the most scenic route in the country?

Because it closed in 1960.

Del.Monte

Seriously, is there a technical or other reason that the Dublin/Rosslare line is not included?

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

Seriously, is there a technical or other reason that the Dublin/Rosslare line is not included?

You'll have to write them a strongly worded letter about it.

I don't know, maybe it's more about the onboard luxury, the attractions at the stops etc. rather than what's outside the windows.