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Reporting Mods.

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    #62
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    The_Morrigan wrote: »
    It involves a lot more work.

    I'm not going to write down every single person who reports the post and then try include them in a mass pm telling someone off. Nor am I going to send an individual pm to any person who reports a post after I've dealt with the post.

    Not to mention the confusion if two mods action a post at the same time, which I've managed to do with my co-mods on more than one occasion.


    To be honest, this reads like you are just looking for a loophole to break the rules.

    1. Be more honest - How could you possibly think that I am "just looking for a loophole to break the rules". I was only trying to help by making a suggestion.
    2. What is your allergy to work? You volunteered to work, to help in the running of the site. My suggestion results in better informed members of the site, who can then use this information to be better posters.
    3. If your motivation to become a volunteer was not to make the site a more enjoyable experience for it's community then why did you volunteer?


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    #63
    The Hill Billy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,748 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    kneemos wrote: »
    Most of the mods have little or nothing to do in fairness.
    Most of the mods in AH don't make an appearance from one end of the year to the next.
    Rarely if ever see a mod in other forums.

    It is sad to see how little you actually understand the modding of this site.

    Mods are like janitors. We keep the place tidy - keep the place from getting too dirty & mopping up the occasional spills of snots, blood & bile. You don't need to see the janitor when all is in order - most of their work is done quietly & behind the scenes. It is only when some dolt comes along & craps all over the place at an inopportune moment that you could expect to see them marching in with their buckets & mops.

    And a word about the AH mods as you have seen fit to single them out...
    They are amongst the hardest working mods on this site, if not the hardest. You don't see it, but it doesn't mean that they are not working away keeping AH moving smoothly.


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    #64
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    1. Be more honest - How could you possibly think that I am "just looking for a loophole to break the rules". I was only trying to help by making a suggestion.
    2. What is your allergy to work? You volunteered to work, to help in the running of the site. My suggestion results in better informed members of the site, who can then use this information to be better posters.
    3. If your motivation to become a volunteer was not to make the site a more enjoyable experience for it's community then why did you volunteer?

    4. If you(BB) don't like the way the site is run why stick around?. There must be thousands of sites similar to boards out there.


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    #65
    Darkglasses
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    1. Be more honest - How could you possibly think that I am "just looking for a loophole to break the rules". I was only trying to help by making a suggestion.
    2. What is your allergy to work? You volunteered to work, to help in the running of the site. My suggestion results in better informed members of the site, who can then use this information to be better posters.
    3. If your motivation to become a volunteer was not to make the site a more enjoyable experience for it's community then why did you volunteer?

    Allergy to work. Holy God. Who'd be a moderator.

    Just because we volunteer doesn't mean we are obligated to bend over backwards to every request of the userbase. End of.


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    #66
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    It seems we have gotten off on the wrong foot here. I was only trying to offer a solution, it was probably my fault so I will try to explain what I mean without anyone getting defensive.


    Currently: Poster A insults Poster B. Poster B reports the post. Mod X sees the rule breach and privately messages Poster A. Poster B has no idea this has happened, feels doubly wronged and concludes that this kind of abuse is tolerated by mod X.


    One week later: Poster B insults Poster C. Poster C reports the post. Mod X infracts/bans Poster B. Poster B feels rightfully aggrieved as there stands the illusion of a double standard. Poster B opens a helpdesk thread which is rejected. Poster B leaves the site.


    An alternative: Poster A insults Poster B. Poster B reports the post. Mod X see the rule breach a PMs Poster B and CCs Poster A. Poster A observes that his complaint has been taken seriously and is satisfied.


    One week later: Poster B does not insult Poster C as he is aware that rule breaches are dealth with.


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    #67
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    It doesn't have to be a CC, it could simply be an email icon or a white card or something in the place of the yellow/red cards.


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    #68
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    ken wrote: »
    4. If you(BB) don't like the way the site is run why stick around?. There must be thousands of sites similar to boards out there.
    I think the site is run very well. Do you think anything from the rest of the statement is wrong?


    "You volunteered to work, to help in the running of the site. My suggestion results in better informed members of the site, who can then use this information to be better posters."


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    #69
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,381 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It seems we have gotten off on the wrong foot here. I was only trying to offer a solution, it was probably my fault so I will try to explain what I mean without anyone getting defensive.


    Currently: Poster A insults Poster B. Poster B reports the post. Mod X sees the rule breach and privately messages Poster A. Poster B has no idea this has happened, feels doubly wronged and concludes that this kind of abuse is tolerated by mod X.


    One week later: Poster B insults Poster C. Poster C reports the post. Mod X infracts/bans Poster B. Poster B feels rightfully aggrieved as there stands the illusion of a double standard. Poster B opens a helpdesk thread which is rejected. Poster B leaves the site.


    An alternative: Poster A insults Poster B. Poster B reports the post. Mod X see the rule breach a PMs Poster B and CCs Poster A. Poster A observes that his complaint has been taken seriously and is satisfied.


    One week later: Poster B does not insult Poster C as he is aware that rule breaches are dealth with.
    But why should poster B get special treatment ahead of all other posters in the thread/forum?

    Personally I would not leave such a post up without explanation, either in the form of a visible card or in-thread mod warning that such comments are unacceptable. Either that or the "offending" post would be deleted. Certainly can't speak for everyone (and can't say there will not be exceptions), but that's the sort of approach I see generally in the Sports forums


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    #70
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    To answer the OP's question - if you wish to report ANY post, you click the report button and that that. If you wish to report a mod's actions for review, you contact their CMod. If you wish to report a CMod, you contact an Admin, you wish to report an Admin, you contact Niamh or I. You wish to report us - close you're account, we're the top of the site's chain of command :p We are NEVER going to have some manner of system to tell people that something they reported is being actioned or that they have ANY sort of right to be included in any kind of moderation process. That applies equally to members and mods alike.

    We've been doing this for 16 years. Believe me, we know what we're at. There is literally nothing good about a reporter being included in a discussion or review of a potential disciplinary process. It causes hostility and one-upmanship and none of that is anything we're interested in promoting.

    Moderators do not work here, they help. I'd happily help a friend move house on a weekend, but I would not help them move house every weekend because he keeps getting kicked out of his flat for being an arse. The only time moderation feels like a job is when we're having to deal with constant nitpickers and trouble makers. Usually the same sorts of people who seem to think that it's a "job" whether it be voluntary or not.

    Funny that...


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    #71
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    It isn't a competition to see how much you can get away with. Just because you think you see someone getting away with acting the maggot doesn't give you licence to act the maggot yourself.


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    #72
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,240 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    It seems we have gotten off on the wrong foot here. I was only trying to offer a solution, it was probably my fault so I will try to explain what I mean without anyone getting defensive.


    Currently: Poster A insults Poster B. Poster B reports the post. Mod X sees the rule breach and privately messages Poster A. Poster B has no idea this has happened, feels doubly wronged and concludes that this kind of abuse is tolerated by mod X.


    One week later: Poster B insults Poster C. Poster C reports the post. Mod X infracts/bans Poster B. Poster B feels rightfully aggrieved as there stands the illusion of a double standard. Poster B opens a helpdesk thread which is rejected. Poster B leaves the site.


    An alternative: Poster A insults Poster B. Poster B reports the post. Mod X see the rule breach a PMs Poster B and CCs Poster A. Poster A observes that his complaint has been taken seriously and is satisfied.


    One week later: Poster B does not insult Poster C as he is aware that rule breaches are dealth with.

    So many strawmen...

    If a poster doesn't think any action has been taken about a post they reported, they can PM the mod to ask, or PM a CMod. That solves all the above issues, and is the way things have worked, and worked well, for years.


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    #73
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Penn wrote: »
    So many strawmen...

    If a poster doesn't think any action has been taken about a post they reported, they can PM the mod to ask, or PM a CMod. That solves all the above issues, and is the way things have worked, and worked well, for years.
    OK, if someone is abused, reads the charter, see that personal abuse is not tolerated, reports the post, is apparently ignored what kind of message does this send out to what is the victim in this case?

    And of course they are going to think nothing has been done because they have no reason to.


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    #74
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    OK, if someone is abused, reads the charter, see that personal abuse is not tolerated, reports the post, is apparently ignored what kind of message does this send out to what is the victim in this case?

    And of course they are going to think nothing has been done because they have no reason to.

    Interpretation plays a big part in it. Some people see abuse in places where there really, definitely isn't any.


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    #75
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,240 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    OK, if someone is abused, reads the charter, see that personal abuse is not tolerated, reports the post, is apparently ignored what kind of message does this send out to what is the victim in this case?

    And of course they are going to think nothing has been done because they have no reason to.

    Again, PM the mods, or if you think the mods are purposefully ignoring it, PM a CMod. No resolution from the CMods, contact an Admin via PM or the Helpdesk.

    There is a clear system and levels to progress disputes through.


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    #76
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,713 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    OK, if someone is abused, reads the charter, see that personal abuse is not tolerated, reports the post, is apparently ignored what kind of message does this send out to what is the victim in this case?

    And of course they are going to think nothing has been done because they have no reason to.
    From the post you quoted:
    Penn wrote: »
    So many strawmen...

    If a poster doesn't think any action has been taken about a post they reported, they can PM the mod to ask, or PM a CMod. That solves all the above issues, and is the way things have worked, and worked well, for years.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #77
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    I'm happy to chat with any poster or help out if they ask, but I'm not going to be doing it automatically for every reported post, it's not practical. You could be swamped by the reported posts alone, never mind conversations with every reporter on top of it. You'd never get anything done in the time you have available.

    Given that the AH mods probably have ten times the workload of any mod group, I'm guessing it's not practical for them either.
    kneemos wrote: »
    Would it be fair when a mod is reported any action or not is made public to ensure there is no favouritism?

    Not any moreso than any other action demanding public attention. I generally don't publicly announce cards/bans, more reminders of the charter. After that, any cards or bans are between the poster in question and the mod(s). Only time that might change is where posters are replying to a recently banned user.


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    #78
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,409 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Dav wrote: »
    To answer the OP's question - if you wish to report ANY post, you click the report button and that that. If you wish to report a mod's actions for review, you contact their CMod. If you wish to report a CMod, you contact an Admin, you wish to report an Admin, you contact Niamh or I. You wish to report us - close you're account, we're the top of the site's chain of command :p We are NEVER going to have some manner of system to tell people that something they reported is being actioned or that they have ANY sort of right to be included in any kind of moderation process. That applies equally to members and mods alike.

    We've been doing this for 16 years. Believe me, we know what we're at. There is literally nothing good about a reporter being included in a discussion or review of a potential disciplinary process. It causes hostility and one-upmanship and none of that is anything we're interested in promoting.

    Moderators do not work here, they help. I'd happily help a friend move house on a weekend, but I would not help them move house every weekend because he keeps getting kicked out of his flat for being an arse. The only time moderation feels like a job is when we're having to deal with constant nitpickers and trouble makers. Usually the same sorts of people who seem to think that it's a "job" whether it be voluntary or not.

    Funny that...

    Merely made a suggestion.Don't even post here anymore much or at all.
    People seem to be very defensive for some reason.

    I'm not looking for boundaries to abuse people either as you falsely assumed in another thread.


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    #79
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SW wrote: »
    From the post you quoted:

    Yes, and since 100% of all people who have reported posts that have led to a secret warning and think (with good reason) they have been ignored you are left with 2 groups:
    1) People who can't understand why a clear breach of the rules hasn't been actioned and do nothing but remain disillusioned, respect for the rules lessens and trust in the mods lessens.
    2) People who can't understand why a clear breach of the rules hasn't been actioned and PM the mod thereby increasing the workload you are supposedly trying to avoid.

    What possible benefit could there be in creating the false impression that a breach of the rules has been ignored by the mods?


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    #80
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    dfx- wrote: »
    I'm happy to chat with any poster or help out if they ask, but I'm not going to be doing it automatically for every reported post, it's not practical. You could be swamped by the reported posts alone, never mind conversations with every reporter on top of it. You'd never get anything done in the time you have available.

    Given that the AH mods probably have ten times the workload of any mod group, I'm guessing it's not practical for them either.



    Not any moreso than any other action demanding public attention. I generally don't publicly announce cards/bans, more reminders of the charter. After that, any cards or bans are between the poster in question and the mod(s). Only time that might change is where posters are replying to a recently banned user.

    May I ask how many times on an average day you see a reported post, see that the charter was breached and instead of an on-thread warning, infraction or ban you give a secret warning to the offender by PM?


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    #81
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    An File wrote: »
    Interpretation plays a big part in it. Some people see abuse in places where there really, definitely isn't any.

    That is certainly true. However, it doesn't apply here as it's a given that rules have been breached on some level otherwise there wouldn't be any warning at all. There seems to be some kind of confusion here, I am not suggesting mods are answerable to the users for every reported post; or any for that matter all I am saying is that it benefits nobody if through bad communication it appears to the average user that rules don't apply to some users in some cases (even if they do, albeit behind closed doors).


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    #82
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,713 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes, and since 100% of all people who have reported posts that have led to a secret warning and think (with good reason) they have been ignored you are left with 2 groups:
    1) People who can't understand why a clear breach of the rules hasn't been actioned and do nothing but remain disillusioned, respect for the rules lessens and trust in the mods lessens.
    2) People who can't understand why a clear breach of the rules hasn't been actioned and PM the mod thereby increasing the workload you are supposedly trying to avoid.

    What possible benefit could there be in creating the false impression that a breach of the rules has been ignored by the mods?
    and how would you resolve the problem as you perceive it? Mods PM everyone who reports a post that isn't actionable? Or do they respond on thread to every reported post?

    Best of luck getting anyone to mod any of the busier forums with that type of workload required.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #83
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    It's fine the way it is.


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    #84
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    It's fine the way it is.

    Agreed!


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    #85
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,409 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    SW wrote: »
    and how would you resolve the problem as you perceive it? Mods PM everyone who reports a post that isn't actionable? Or do they respond on thread to every reported post?

    Best of luck getting anyone to mod any of the busier forums with that type of workload required.

    Nobody needs to be PM'd. An open Forum would do the trick.


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    #86
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    SW wrote: »
    and how would you resolve the problem as you perceive it? Mods PM everyone who reports a post that isn't actionable? Or do they respond on thread to every reported post?

    Best of luck getting anyone to mod any of the busier forums with that type of workload required.

    OK, you are misunderstanding me. I am only talking of the occasions when a mod considers that the charter has been breached but they consider the best course of action to take is have a word in secret with the offender and ignore any potential victim(s).

    It's like I said before, I can't see any benefit at all giving the false impression that you are ignoring rules and posters who have taken the time to report posts.

    Could you give me some kind of idea how often that you would do this on an average day (secretly warn users by PM over their conduct)?

    As to a solution, all is needed is some kind of icon in the place of the yellow or red card to indicate this, an email icon, for example.


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    #87
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    kneemos wrote: »
    Nobody needs to be PM'd. An open Forum would do the trick.
    What? You mean the Reported Posts forum should be open?

    Is that what you're suggesting?


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    #88
    EganTheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭EganTheMan


    How do you become a mod? Probably stupid question and sorry if it is - new to boards


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    #89
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    EganTheMan wrote: »
    How do you become a mod? Probably stupid question and sorry if it is - new to boards
    Amp test.

    You get asked.


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    #90
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,409 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    What? You mean the Reported Posts forum should be open?

    Is that what you're suggesting?

    Reported mods.Should be fairly quite I'd imagine.


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    #91
    The_Morrigan
    Moderators Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    kneemos wrote: »
    Reported mods.Should be fairly quite I'd imagine.

    You want an open forum that just shows posts from moderators that have been reported?


This discussion has been closed.
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