Strike On ! Proposed New Junior Cert **See Mod Warning Post #1**

km79

acequion wrote: »

Reading all the above posts about marking from people who know what they're talking about just makes it all the clearer that Ruari Quinn's great "reform" is an unworkable mess.And it wouldn't surprise me if Jan O Sullivan realises that deep down.I thought she looked very worried and under pressure on the news tonight.

The decent thing would be for the Government to back down,defer their reforms until an acceptable,solution can be found, which is costed and thought through. But they won't do that,especially not after their climb down on the water charges. So that means that we have to toughen this one out!

I was astonished that one of her first acts was not to defer JC Reform for 12 months to buy herself some time and a lot of good will from us!!!!!
I mean if she REALLY believes in it and its not about money what difference would 12 months make.......

Dr Crippen

She could be out of government by then?

acequion

Dr Crippen wrote: »

She could be out of government by then?

And she will be.Maybe not by then but she is certain to be part of the Labour annihilation that's coming.And three years from now all but teachers will be going,Jan who?

This is all about this shambles of a Government trying to save face. They're counting on the apathy and antipathy of the public towards teachers in addition to the not unsizeable element within our own ranks who agree with her to push this one through. They'll then be counting on the recovery,an extra few bob in people's pockets and their big boast that they saved the country from ruin to save themselves from ruin. I won't be buying it but again a not unsizeable element will,just as they kept voting for Bertie and co.

Am feeling very demoralised today folks,just barely going through the motions at the job. I doubt I'm the only one. The constant attacks of recent years has sucked the energy and enthusiasm out of many. But that's not the kind of stuff that makes the papers.

evolving_doors

acequion wrote: »

And she will be.Maybe not by then but she is certain to be part of the Labour annihilation that's coming.And three years from now all but teachers will be going,Jan who?

This is all about this shambles of a Government trying to save face. They're counting on the apathy and antipathy of the public towards teachers in addition to the not unsizeable element within our own ranks who agree with her to push this one through. They'll then be counting on the recovery,an extra few bob in people's pockets and their big boast that they saved the country from ruin to save themselves from ruin. I won't be buying it but again a not unsizeable element will,just as they kept voting for Bertie and co.

Am feeling very demoralised today folks,just barely going through the motions at the job. I doubt I'm the only one. The constant attacks of recent years has sucked the energy and enthusiasm out of many. But that's not the kind of stuff that makes the papers.

Its the advisors who need to go. Hold the line, Jan knows the public support is turning towards the teachers position.
The last thing she wants is another FG U-turn so she's desperate...
Phil Hogan - Irish Water
James O' Reilly - Free GP/ Universal Health/ Medical Cards
Ruairi Quinn's 'legacy' is next to fail.

Dont get me wrong, Im intrigued by the proposals... but it seems to be like Irish water with nothing thought out, back of envelope stuff (remember Charlie McCreevy's decentralisation)
Once consultation and planing doesn't happen then its doomed to fail.

I noticed the radio-newspaper-neo-liberal-rabble were particularly quiet yesterday when they couldn't find enough ire against teachers to broadcast. If Ed. Walsh and some guy from IBEC (who lets face it are never happy with teachers/public service) is the best they can do then it says a lot.

The answer is in the silence.

implausible

Armelodie wrote: »

I noticed the radio-newspaper-neo-liberal-rabble were particularly quiet yesterday when they couldn't find enough ire against teachers to broadcast. If Ed. Walsh and some guy from IBEC (who lets face it are never happy with teachers/public service) is the best they can do then it says a lot.

The answer is in the silence.

Did any of you hear Joe Mag Riallaigh yesterday evening on Drivetime? He had obviously been sent to Newry to report about all of the teachers going shopping. Instead he got 10 minutes of filler vox-pop from people who had gone to get dentistry done or to get cheaper pharmaceutical products. Not a teacher in sight!

I was surprised too by the lack of vitriol in the reporting. It seems that if money isn't involved and it's obviously about the integrity of the education system, people start to run out of bile.

While JO'S was talking the talk, I didn't think she looked too convincing on the news.

man_no_plan

implausible wrote: »

Did any of you hear Joe Mag Riallaigh yesterday evening on Drivetime? He had obviously been sent to Newry to report about all of the teachers going shopping. Instead he got 10 minutes of filler vox-pop from people who had gone to get dentistry done or to get cheaper pharmaceutical products. Not a teacher in sight!

I was surprised too by the lack of vitriol in the reporting. It seems that if money isn't involved and it's obviously about the integrity of the education system, people start to run out of bile.

While JO'S was talking the talking, I didn't think she looked too convincing on the news.

Heard it! 'Did you take the day off work' he asked one man - ' I'm retired' he replied. Sickened Joe!

rainbowtrout

implausible wrote: »

Did any of you hear Joe Mag Riallaigh yesterday evening on Drivetime? He had obviously been sent to Newry to report about all of the teachers going shopping. Instead he got 10 minutes of filler vox-pop from people who had gone to get dentistry done or to get cheaper pharmaceutical products. Not a teacher in sight!

I was surprised too by the lack of vitriol in the reporting. It seems that if money isn't involved and it's obviously about the integrity of the education system, people start to run out of bile.

While JO'S was talking the talk, I didn't think she looked too convincing on the news.

Teacher bashing has been such an easy thing for the government/media to do for the last 6-7 years in particular. When reports revolved around money, it was an easy way to get the public onside with the government line. The very notion that a reporter was sent to Newry to seek out teachers doing their Christmas shopping speaks volumes of the opinion of us in media circles. The tide is starting to turn, which is refreshing to see for a change.

acequion

There's also a lot of anti Government sentiment out there. Which is good for us.

amacca

acequion wrote: »

There's also a lot of anti Government sentiment out there. Which is good for us.

its only right imo - its mostly the wrong sections of society/soft easy targets that are scapegoated

Chancer3001

Just wondering, how good are the Asti school stewards in your school?

It seems to vary wildly from school to school.

Do they give clear information? Do they pander to the loudest voice? Do they give incorrect information?

Ours was non-existing for a while, but the new guy is doing a good job although he stays out of a lot of stuff!

acequion

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Just wondering, how good are the Asti school stewards in your school?

It seems to vary wildly from school to school.

Do they give clear information? Do they pander to the loudest voice? Do they give incorrect information?

Ours was non-existing for a while, but the new guy is doing a good job although he stays out of a lot of stuff!

Our rep is excellent. But then the majority of the staff in our school would all be singing off the same hymn sheet,ie supportive of defending teacher conditions,majority no vote in final HR ballot etc.

But you're right. Reps do vary widely.

gaiscioch

Has anybody on the teachers' side got anything on that smug, haughty conceited auld bastard Ed Walsh who repeatedly demands teachers pay and conditions be reduced?* He was on Prime Time the other night throwing nonsense claims around in a consistently imperious tone - "no other government would even negotiate with the teachers' unions" and being frankly dishonest (at best) in his claims regarding the role of continuous assessment within other European secondary school systems. Prime Time ended with Walsh laughing derisively at the teachers' representatives.

Nobody challenges the dubious claims and his pompous arrogance of this former head of a glorified rural college, in any forum. The two teachers' union leaders on the same show could have publicly humiliated him with facts, but they chose not to, or else they failed to prepare to counter the same tired, predictable lies of Walsh.

/rant over

* This is the same Ed Walsh who received a lump sum of almost €300,000 (£225,000) when he retired from UL in 1997. He has also being in receipt of a pension of over €100,000 per year since. Ireland's very own Marie Antoinette.

acequion

gaiscioch wrote: »

Has anybody on the teachers' side got anything on that smug, haughty conceited auld bastard Ed Walsh who repeatedly demands teachers pay and conditions be reduced?* He was on Prime Time the other night throwing nonsense claims around in a consistently imperious tone - "no other government would even negotiate with the teachers' unions" and being frankly dishonest (at best) in his claims regarding the role of continuous assessment within other European secondary school systems. Prime Time ended with Walsh laughing derisively at the teachers' representatives.

Nobody challenges the dubious claims and his pompous arrogance of this former head of a glorified rural college, in any forum. The two teachers' union leaders on the same show could have publicly humiliated him with facts, but they chose not to, or else they failed to prepare to counter the same tired, predictable lies of Walsh.

/rant over

* This is the same Ed Walsh who received a lump sum of almost €300,000 (£225,000) when he retired from UL in 1997. He has also being in receipt of a pension of over €100,000 per year since. Ireland's very own Marie Antoinette.

Last week Walsh had an article in The Independent,another blatant piece of anti teacher propaganda, filled with mistruths and misinformation. So I decided to write a letter where I made clear and succinct rebuttals to his claims.I spent hours researching my facts first to be certain they were correct. Anyway did the indo publish my letter. Not a hope of it!

That's the kind of democracy we have in Ireland that the pro establishment media will only publish what suits their argument. There are probably tons of people out there trying to take on Walsh,but they won't get a public forum to do it. I didn't see that Prime Time and I don't think I'll watch it. I really find the anti teacher campaign very upsetting because it is so unjust.

RealJohn

Try sending it to all of the other papers and include a bit about the Indo refusing to publish it, implying that they're in bed with Walsh. Might get a bit more notice that way.

gaiscioch

Parents were coming down to our school with coffee and biscuits, while retired staff came down (with food supplies) to support us also. Plenty of support for teachers on this issue, and the wider hostility to this government definitely fed into that support if the number of cars and trucks going by blowing horns was an indicator. I definitely sensed we were part of a movement against this government.

Ní uasal aon uasal ach sinne bheith íseal: Éirímis (The great appear great because we are on our knees: Let us rise.)

killbillvol2

An observation from the primary end.

A good few of our parents were asking me why we weren't on strike the other day. I explained that it was a second level issue to do with JC. A lot of them asked for more details and when I explained it they were very supportive and thought that the strike was justified and that the reforms were wrong.

As many posters have pointed out this is a good time to take on this government and this is a very good issue to tackle them on. But the message isn't getting out to a lot of parents.

Nobody around where I work gives a sh1t about Ed Walsh and nobody reads mainstream media. The local CC posted on their Facebook page that the school would be closed because of a dispute but that was it. They should have taken the opportunity to explain the issue because when it's explained almost all parents are supportive.

I've discussed this with a few of my colleagues from the CC and they agree that the message isn't getting out.

There's a significant and vociferous audience on social media and schools should be making their case and harnessing their support. Letters to the Indo will probably be read by your colleagues. Online is where the message gets out to parents and the wider community.

HIB

killbillvol2 wrote: »

An observation from the primary end.

A good few of our parents were asking me why we weren't on strike the other day. I explained that it was a second level issue to do with JC. A lot of them asked for more details and when I explained it they were very supportive and thought that the strike was justified and that the reforms were wrong.

As many posters have pointed out this is a good time to take on this government and this is a very good issue to tackle them on. But the message isn't getting out to a lot of parents.

Nobody around where I work gives a sh1t about Ed Walsh and nobody reads mainstream media. The local CC posted on their Facebook page that the school would be closed because of a dispute but that was it. They should have taken the opportunity to explain the issue because when it's explained almost all parents are supportive.

I've discussed this with a few of my colleagues from the CC and they agree that the message isn't getting out.

There's a significant and vociferous audience on social media and schools should be making their case and harnessing their support. Letters to the Indo will probably be read by your colleagues. Online is where the message gets out to parents and the wider community.

How about the INTO go out in support? Time for a bit of solidarity I think.

killbillvol2

HIB wrote: »

How about the INTO go out in support? Time for a bit of solidarity I think.

Brilliant idea. Just when teachers are winning a PR battle for the first time in years you'd suggest we close schools that don't even teach the subjects? :rolleyes:

HIB

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Brilliant idea. Just when teachers are winning a PR battle for the first time in years you'd suggest we close schools that don't even teach the subjects? :rolleyes:

Yeah I do. Workers solidarity is a key tenet of union philosophy.

japester

I do feel that the secondary teachers are winning this particular battle - it is the most important one of all in my view. The majority of people I have spoken to feel that it is vital for the JC exam to remain independently assessed so that corruption of any sort can be avoided. Many people think of the various acts of corruption that this and past governments have engaged in over the years and certainly want to keep the education system as blemish-free as possible. I am not a second-level teacher or a parent, but you all have my strong support. Fight the good fight on this issue - I think in her heart of hearts Jan O Sullivan knows that the integrity of the education system is at stake here, but she has inherited a poisoned chalice from Ruairi and is no doubt under pressure to try and deliver something for the government on it.

MrJones1973

Dont get too optimistic. Think of votes last few years. Think of what this Government has pushed through.

MrJones1973

Next strike day Jan 22

acequion

How do people feel and what's the feeling in your schools?

I personally think it would be dreadful if the unions [and members] were to capitulate now. Things have very much changed since HRA in that at last public opposition to Govt policies is very much on the up. At last people are realising that austerity is not the only way,and what is their JC reform only austerity in a different dress??

So,there hasn't been a better opportunity since this Govt came to power to lay down a marker and bluntly refuse any sort of compromise. As has been said on another thread, re-establishment of core services in schools,NQT's getting parity with serving teachers and democracy for those stuck in S&S against their will MUST be addressed before JC reform can even be considered.

I think the onus is very much on us to block it out by voting no to yet another ridiculous "compromise".

Inspector Coptoor

I feel the strike action is too early and I don't like playing our Ace card/trump card so early in the exchange.

However, I'll tow the party line and picket again on the 22nd.

We should, as has been mentioned earlier, refuse outright to comply with any of these reforms until we are listened to

man_no_plan

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I feel the strike action is too early and I don't like playing our Ace card/trump card so early in the exchange.

However, I'll tow the party line and picket again on the 22nd.

We should, as has been mentioned earlier, refuse outright to comply with any of these reforms until we are listened to

Its not too early. The game is nearly up. No in-service, no clue about the assessment that's supposed to be happening in second year with English.

Its pressure time for the department, striking keeps it high on the agenda. There's time to talk now, a strike this time next year would be no use as the whole thing will have gone too far.

This has been a case of real opposition from the outset, two years now, so its not too early.

f3232

acequion wrote: »

How do people feel and what's the feeling in your schools?

I personally think it would be dreadful if the unions [and members] were to capitulate now. Things have very much changed since HRA in that at last public opposition to Govt policies is very much on the up. At last people are realising that austerity is not the only way,and what is their JC reform only austerity in a different dress??

So,there hasn't been a better opportunity since this Govt came to power to lay down a marker and bluntly refuse any sort of compromise. As has been said on another thread, re-establishment of core services in schools,NQT's getting parity with serving teachers and democracy for those stuck in S&S against their will MUST be addressed before JC reform can even be considered.

I think the onus is very much on us to block it out by voting no to yet another ridiculous "compromise".

Not to put a dampener on it but reading between the lines from someone in the know in the TUI -compromise is on the cards. Which stresses the importance of the above comment.

km79

f3232 wrote: »

Not to put a dampener on it but reading between the lines from someone in the know in the TUI -compromise is on the cards. Which stresses the importance of the above comment.

this will be the end of the unions.......a lot of people are like myself .......hoping against hope they stay strong and don't sell us out BUT of they do will be gone

MrJones1973

Barry Hazel has an article in the Irish Independent tomorrow outlining where he sees the issue going. Be strong people. Expect the TUI to jump ship -they always do.

Regarding dispute-think about this people-why should you compromise? 2 posts per school? Most teachers wont get them. Because the big bad Department wants you to-what exactly can they do to us now? They cant force you to sit down and correct them.They have Zero-I repeat Zero leverage.

BTW-Anybody here Dublin North West ASTI members or Dublin South west Asti members? Branch ?

evolving_doors

I think politics and elections might have more to do with a resolution...
giveaway budget next year
Good time to call an election after budget...
Meanwhile Jan either bides her time till she checks out. What FG don't want is another govt uturn before the election...

this is why I thinkthe union are forcing the issue early in new year.. plus they might encourage a few more teachers to join the union before a strike.

f3232

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

2 posts per school? Most teachers wont get them.

Where did you hear this information?