DCM 2014 graduates - the next step onwards

Firedance

MaggotBrain wrote: »

Hey Firedance, I asked the mods to put it in the first post. It's there at the end of Laura's post...

Sorry!! I should have looked first :-) thanks :-)

Dub13

I did the 7*1min @5k effort with 2mins recovery session this morning with the heart rate monitor on as well. Was a good session, I did 15/16 min warm up and 10 min cool down.

Avg HR: 151 bpm
Max HR: 177 bpm

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/635393433

Pacing Mule

Clearlier wrote: »

pacing mule - welcome to the fray! I feel your pain with cramping. You will hear people talk about electrolyte imbalances to explain them. Ignore that talk. Cramping is almost always due to undertraining of the muscle. Don't use running to lose weight, use running to get fit, use diet to lose weight. I'm getting a bit of a boom and bust cycle with you, is it a fair observation that you consistently push your limits occasionally going beyond them? Important thing for you to keep in mind with this plan is to make slow and steady progress. If the big picture for you is DCM 15 now is where you put all of the building blocks in place.

Reasonably fair. I was only described recently as an all or nothing guy so yeah I can be guilty of pushing boundaries. Definitely in 2012 - was way too soon to be running marathons for sure. I just equated extra distance with progress when in fact I put in more work getting my 5k time down than I did getting marathon "ready"

This time around, well yes you can say I was pushing it still, but I did feel I was much better prepared. I had done a couple of 20 milers, 19 and 18 and had scaled back my goal time too to something a bit more achievable. I had been ill the couple of weeks beforehand which really didn't help but I think in hindsight what went wrong for me was the lack of downhill training. I had done plenty of hill work without ever running downhill properly as my downhills were normally resting / slow running after an uphill. The section down from Castleknock we had been warned here could shred the quads if taken too fast. I didn't tear off, actually held MP for it but crucially I had never ran down that steep a hill that fast before. Basically comes back down to your point about the muscles being under trained. I cramped up badly in the right quad at 13 miles (and the left 2 miles later) whereas I had ran much further without trouble in the weeks before.

100% agree with the running for fitness not for diet. What happens(ed) me is I tend to lose focus when not excercising and let the diet slip a bit. The period where I did put back on quite a bit of weight was around the time off injured after DCM 12 and then the birth and early months of our second child in March 2013. Not an excuse (there are plenty here still maintaining the mileage with new babies) but fact is the eye got taken off the fitness / diet ball completely and it showed up in the weight gain. I know it makes no sense to lose focus on the diet when you really need it to be ok whilst not excercising but that's what went on. Went from 17 stone down to 14 prior to DCM 12, went back up to over 16 by August 2013 but then started again. So a kind of boom and bust cycle I suppose but realistically it was one trough that is in the past.

I'm 100% committed now to building on the work I've put in so far. No more busts and hopefully will be able to stay within my limits (and increase them as we go)

gingersnap

I ordered a HR monitor on line, not sure when it will arrive put probably won't be until the end of the week at the earliest.

I currently do club training twice a week and I'm wondering how to fit this in with the training plan. Also, I can only commit to 4 - 5 days of running. I may swap one of the club days for one of the sessions.

I'm looking forward to getting back into it again, it's been strange having no focus over the last few weeks!

Dub13

Clearlier wrote: »

Absolutely fine to use the treadmill. If you were doing all of your running on the treadmill I'd encourage you to find a way to get outside but once a week isn't a problem. I would steer clear of intervals though, just do an easy run, if you need to break up the monotony then by all means break up the run but don't do them at a hard effort.

Would doing the hill running on a treadmill...? the reason I ask is I do most of my running on my break in the city and not many hills around. I much prefer to run outside but have access to a treadmill in the work gym.

Clearlier

Dub13 wrote: »

Would doing the hill running on a treadmill...? the reason I ask is I do most of my running on my break in the city and not many hills around. I much prefer to run outside but have access to a treadmill in the work gym.

That's something I've never considered! I guess it could work well for the longer hill sessions but not for the short sharp hills that will be in there a couple of times. It's no big deal though, strides are a reasonable substitute for them. If you do the longer hills on the treadmill I'll be interested to know how it goes and the best way to do them that you find.

Dub13

Clearlier wrote: »

That's something I've never considered! I guess it could work well for the longer hill sessions but not for the short sharp hills that will be in there a couple of times. It's no big deal though, strides are a reasonable substitute for them. If you do the longer hills on the treadmill I'll be interested to know how it goes and the best way to do them that you find.

The longer hills will not be a problem as I live close to The Hill of Howth and have trained there loads of times, I just had a quick look at a run out there (link below) and it has an Elevation Gain of 169 m. Would this be enough..?

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/514888884

Clearlier

Dub13 wrote: »

The longer hills will not be a problem as I live close to The Hill of Howth and have trained there loads of times, I just had a quick look at a run out there (link below) and it has an Elevation Gain of 169 m. Would this be enough..?

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/514888884

If it's long enough to let you run for up to 90 seconds you'll be fine.

JohnDozer

Had a go at getting a Max HR reading this evening but not sure if I did it right, might have misread how to approach it plus my reading appears to be a little (10 BPM) lower than expected. 2 mile warm up at easy pace, gradually increased pace to HM pace for 2 mins approx, 10k pace for 2 mins, and 5k pace for 5 minutes or so. Followed up with a 2 mile cool down at easy pace. Got a max HR of 177 and it seems to have remained fairly stable at the 5k pace end of things.

I have definately got a higher reading than this in previous races so I might have a trawl through Strava to see what I can dig out.

chickey2

Did my HR test this morning. I warmed up for 15 minutes, did a few strides, then took off at what I was thinking was 5K pace (but in hindsight was faster) towards a hill, where I just ran as fast as I could. As I was gasping up the hill some guy breezed past me! He must have been an elite ;-)

connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/635604018 (won't let me put in full link as I don't have enough posts!)

Anyway, I didn't make it to the top of the hill as I had to stop. Max HR was 192! If you look at the data it doesn't seem to be a blip. I took my resting heart rate last night and the average was 50 although it did dip to 47 at one stage. I knew I had a naturally low heart rate, and I've been asked by doctors before if I was an athlete (this was in my twenties when the only excercise I got was walking home from the pub!). So it looks like I have a very large range, I would have thought if my resting heart rate was low then so would my Max HR.

Nicsx

I dug out the heart rate monitor last night & went out only for the Garmin to die after 1 mile. So that was the end of any testing yesterday! So I tried again this morning & got a max reading of 185. I think, but I'm not sure, that I may have had a max reading of 189-190 when I was trying out my new toy last December. Would that make that much of a difference - should I test again?

annapr

Clearlier wrote: »

annapr - Well done on the parkrun. Any HR reading?

Thanks C. I took out my OH's HR monitor belt, looked at it and have no idea how to work it, but will figure it out and give it a shot. Working long hours this week so am behind schedule. But looking forward to getting out more.

Clearlier

Nicsx wrote: »

I dug out the heart rate monitor last night & went out only for the Garmin to die after 1 mile. So that was the end of any testing yesterday! So I tried again this morning & got a max reading of 185. I think, but I'm not sure, that I may have had a max reading of 189-190 when I was trying out my new toy last December. Would that make that much of a difference - should I test again?

If you have a realiable high of 190 within the past year then there's no reason you can't use that. Just make sure that it wasn't a spike and that it was in a situation where you were maxing out your effort. Otherwise 185 will do fine for our purposes.

John - Same as above for you!

Clearlier

chickey2 wrote: »

Did my HR test this morning. I warmed up for 15 minutes, did a few strides, then took off at what I was thinking was 5K pace (but in hindsight was faster) towards a hill, where I just ran as fast as I could. As I was gasping up the hill some guy breezed past me! He must have been an elite ;-)

connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/635604018 (won't let me put in full link as I don't have enough posts!)

Anyway, I didn't make it to the top of the hill as I had to stop. Max HR was 192! If you look at the data it doesn't seem to be a blip. I took my resting heart rate last night and the average was 50 although it did dip to 47 at one stage. I knew I had a naturally low heart rate, and I've been asked by doctors before if I was an athlete (this was in my twenties when the only excercise I got was walking home from the pub!). So it looks like I have a very large range, I would have thought if my resting heart rate was low then so would my Max HR.

Hi chickey, Looks like a solid HR Max test. There's no relationship between max hr and resting hr. Your resting HR will drop as you get fitter but your max won't increase (although your ability to achieve it might). Could have been a boardsie going past you as there's a few based around there. I used to live in Kingswood before I moved over to the UK.

crisco10

Oh, HR test. Just in from my attempt at doing one. Went okay, but the HR was quite low. I warmed up for 15 minutes then did 0.5km uphill (2% grade according to Strava) at 4:20/km. Was working hard, but heart rate only got to 185. I would have liked to go back to the bottom of the hill and come up again but time was against me.
I remembered my heart rate being higher in previous efforts so I checked out my history, and looked at highest heart rates recorded in the last 6 months or so:

1. 5km Race, May, Max was 193
2. 5km Race, June, Max was 191
3. Half Mara, August, Max was 188
4. Full Mara, October, Max was 187

So I assume from this that a Max HR for me would be ~193?

JohnDozer

Clearlier wrote: »

If you have a realiable high of 190 within the past year then there's no reason you can't use that. Just make sure that it wasn't a spike and that it was in a situation where you were maxing out your effort. Otherwise 185 will do fine for our purposes.

John - Same as above for you!

Cheers, just had a look back there. 4 readings from 4 races in April to June this year (1 5k, 2 10 milers and one half) give me readings from 182 to 186 so I'll take this as the more accurate reading for me. Must remember to wear the HR monitor more!

ChadHogan

Hi all,

Just looking for guidance on pace of the long run, i'll being doing the 90 minute long run as prescribed, and was just wondering should I go at my previous LSR pace from Marathon training (assuming no change in fitness) or is there a different approach given that a Marathon is not the immediate goal.

Cheers

chickey2

So should we be adjusting our pace depending on our heart rates or should we just stick with what feels easy and monitor the heart rate?
What kind of hills should I be looking for for the short hill session?

Thanks for the 30 day challenge recommendation by the way. I can really start feeling the difference.

Clearlier

The ideal is to learn to run by feel. It's not always that easy to do though and a heart rate monitor can be a very useful tool in helping develop your awareness of what kind of effort your body is putting in and how well it's going.

I have added an extra sheet to the mileage tracker called "Heart Rate Calculations". If you put your Max heart Rate into cell B2 then the heart rate range that you should run in is automatically calculated in cells E4 to E7 depending on the type of run that you're doing.*

Slightly below that I have calculated the range using the heart rate reserve method. This is more relevant to those with a relatively high resting heart rate.

Getting your resting heart rate is relatively straightforward. Put your heart rate monitor on, lie down and relax without doing anything - except meditating maybe - for 2 to 3 minutes. Then check to see what your heart rate is. As with max HR there is no good or bad, right or wrong. Your number is what your number is.



*These ranges come from the 2nd edition of Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger and Scott Douglas - a book I highly recommend you read when planning your training for your next marathon.

Clearlier

crisco10 wrote: »

Oh, HR test. Just in from my attempt at doing one. Went okay, but the HR was quite low. I warmed up for 15 minutes then did 0.5km uphill (2% grade according to Strava) at 4:20/km. Was working hard, but heart rate only got to 185. I would have liked to go back to the bottom of the hill and come up again but time was against me.
I remembered my heart rate being higher in previous efforts so I checked out my history, and looked at highest heart rates recorded in the last 6 months or so:

1. 5km Race, May, Max was 193
2. 5km Race, June, Max was 191
3. Half Mara, August, Max was 188
4. Full Mara, October, Max was 187

So I assume from this that a Max HR for me would be ~193?

All other things being equal - yes. It's not unusual for heart rates to be higher in races compared to training though so monitor your body carefully so that you can work out whether your heart rate training range is appropriate or not.

Clearlier

ChadHogan wrote: »

Hi all,

Just looking for guidance on pace of the long run, i'll being doing the 90 minute long run as prescribed, and was just wondering should I go at my previous LSR pace from Marathon training (assuming no change in fitness) or is there a different approach given that a Marathon is not the immediate goal.

Cheers

Hi Chad,

We're looking for an easy effort at the moment.

What's important when doing easy running is not to let it turn into lazy running. It's easy for us to think easy, lose focus and wander off into daydreaming. Thing is you need to maintain good posture no matter what type of running you're doing so make sure that when you're running easy that you're still running well.

Clearlier

chickey2 wrote: »

So should we be adjusting our pace depending on our heart rates or should we just stick with what feels easy and monitor the heart rate?
What kind of hills should I be looking for for the short hill session?

Thanks for the 30 day challenge recommendation by the way. I can really start feeling the difference.

Friday's session

I discuss them below but here's the link to a selection of drills that you'll benefit from introducing to your warm up routine.

There's an enormous amount of discussion about form which ranges from you shouldn't run unless and until you've got perfect form or you'll get injured to form drills are a waste of good time that could be spent running. As is usually the case the truth lies somewhere in between. To complicate it further there's not really any one size fits all solution.

The link above is a fairly comprehensive selection of drills. If you manage to learn to do these well over the course of the next few months then you'll have a valuable resource that you can use for many years as a runner. Every detail is important e.g. when he says keep your feet under your butt it really is important that they don't trail out behind you.

Hill Sprints

The short hills sprints are actually very short, 6 - 8 seconds in fact. Jog slowly to the foot of the hill and then accelerate up in a controlled fashion but as hard as you can. You do not want to go too long, more than 10 seconds is counterproductive. You take full recovery after each rep so bring/wear layers so that you can adapt to the temperatures.

Start off with 6 reps. We'll add more as the weeks go by. If you haven't got a hill then do this on the flat, ideally you'll find some kind of incline though even if it's not that steep.

Firedance

found my HRM & watch last night so went out at lunchtime today for my HR test. Its foggy out there!!!

I'll probably try and do it again over the weekend but the results were max HR was 180, average rate on the run seemed to be around 144-146. Had to wear my garmin on the other wrist so I could see pace etc. I must wear the HR more often, its interesting to see the rate as you increase/decrease pace.

Looking for advice 2013

In answer to your questions:

1) I'd like to know your PB's and roughly when they were set.

I started running a year and 7 months ago. It's started off as I was watching my hubby get out every night while I was left with the kids so I though two can play this game :-)

5km PB - 26:31 park run
10km PB - 55.59 - that was in the a Dublin half marathon following pacers
Half Marathon: 2:05:48
DCM 2014: 4:59:11


2) Tell me about your running history including what plan/training you did for DCM.

I've been running for a year and a half. I had never planned on doing anything further than 10km until I signed up for a 10mile in August and then I decided sure while not do that half marathon it's only a bit more and before long I was signed up for the marathon. I followed the h novas plan but was late starting.

3) What's your sporting history?

Played camogie/football and hockey from about age 10 to 18 would have been very into it when I was younger & relatively fit as a result. After that I didn't do much in the form of exercise for many years until I started walking after my first child.

4) What other training including strength and conditioning training do you do regularly?

Not a whole lot. I have a cross trainer and stationary bike and used them while training for the marathon.

5) Any injuries/niggles and what are you doing to manage them?

I've never had an injury

6) What are your goals for the next 6 - 12 months?

My main goal is to get my 5km & 10km BP down.

Tigerandahalf

Clearlier

Hill Sprints

The short hills sprints are actually very short, 6 - 8 seconds in fact. Jog slowly to the foot of the hill and then accelerate up in a controlled fashion but as hard as you can. You do not want to go too long, more than 10 seconds is counterproductive. You take full recovery after each rep so bring/wear layers so that you can adapt to the temperatures.

Start off with 6 reps. We'll add more as the weeks go by. If you haven't got a hill then do this on the flat, ideally you'll find some kind of incline though even if it's not that steep.

I did these the other night. I did a set of 10. They weren't too bad. I kind of enjoyed them. I jogged back to the start of the hill so maybe 3/4 minute recovery. So maybe the recovery was too long which made it a bit easier. Definitely easier than 3 x 1 mile.

Clearlier

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I did these the other night. I did a set of 10. They weren't too bad. I kind of enjoyed them. I jogged back to the start of the hill so maybe 3/4 minute recovery. So maybe the recovery was too long which made it a bit easier. Definitely easier than 3 x 1 mile.

Sounds like you did them perfectly Tiger. You can't really have too much recovery to be honest. It does nothing for your cardiovascular fitness, it's all about strength and co-ordination.


Welcome to the thread looking for advice 2013. As with most of us the more your run the faster you'll get. Hopefully the plan we're following here can give you some structure.

Ososlo

hey guys and gals
is everyone back running at this stage? I noticed quite a few of you are still under the radar since the marathon so don't think you'll be getting away with that too easily! Remember when I made you all promise before DCM that you'd all stick around after it and post your training? So don't think I'm forgetting about that promise! Expect a pm in your inbox if I don't see you posting your training soon or letting us know why you're not;)
Great to see some of you getting stuck into the max heart rate test. I trained with a heart rate monitor for a full year and it was of great benefit to really listening to my body and knowing what different paces should feel like effort-wise. It'll mean you're running your easy runs to the correct effort and won't be over-doing it so less injury risk and you'll have more energy in reserve for the faster stuff!
Looking forward to seeing how it all progresses with the plan! Good luck!

SoundoftheSea

Ok so I am on day seven of the 30 day challenge and I have discovered that my right leg is much weaker than my left leg.
Glutes are very sore today and right hip/lower back so I am going to rest for a day or two and then continue on.
Only managed one 5 mile run this week and last week but I hope to get another in over the weekend. I have been pushing myself to run faster than I was in marathon training. Average pace for both 5 mile runs were 9:58 and 9:50. I know its still not that fast but in comparison to my average lsr pace @12:45 I hope I am improving. Then hopefully next week I will get at least 4 runs in. Really don't think I will manage any more than 4 runs a week but will try as much as I can.

Nice to know you are checking in (up) on us Ososlo we need all the motivation/pushing we can get.

Casey78

Not really a training question so I hope ye don't mind me asking but I know some of you have garmins so I thought I'd ask here!
I just got a garmin 610 yesterday that I bought from eBay a few weeks ago. I was messing around with it last night to get use to it and I added a workout to make sure sync was working from garmin connect.
Today I went for my first run with it which was my local park run and to start the run I just pressed the start button and off I went thinking it would just give me my pace distance and time.
My problem is though the watch started beeping and vibrating almost immediately telling me to slow down then speed up. I realized then that it must be taking me through the work out I uploaded last night.
I didn't want this as I just wanted to do the park run. It beep constantly for the 5k duration! I got some odd looks!!
Is there anyway to just go for a run without the workout kicking in or once you upload a workout does it always automatically start once you start a run?
Also is it the same for Virtual Pacer?
Sometimes I just want to go for a run and just have the watch track me and not worry about workouts or virtual pacer. Is this possible? I know I can turn off alerts but I don't want to have to be remembering to turn them back on when I do want to do a workout and then back off again.
I hope I'm explaining myself correctly.
Thanks.

Dubgal72

Clearlier, I am getting a schedule sorted with my club but am definitely lurking here for the great advice. I have finally started the 30 day challenge (it was getting to the stage where I nearly had a block about it) and loved the warm up drills posted above. They're going into my routine for sure. Thank you!