DCM 2014 graduates - the next step onwards

ciaranmac

Casey78 wrote: »

Not really a training question so I hope ye don't mind me asking but I know some of you have garmins so I thought I'd ask here!
I just got a garmin 610 yesterday that I bought from eBay a few weeks ago. I was messing around with it last night to get use to it and I added a workout to make sure sync was working from garmin connect.
Today I went for my first run with it which was my local park run and to start the run I just pressed the start button and off I went thinking it would just give me my pace distance and time.
My problem is though the watch started beeping and vibrating almost immediately telling me to slow down then speed up. I realized then that it must be taking me through the work out I uploaded last night.
I didn't want this as I just wanted to do the park run. It beep constantly for the 5k duration! I got some odd looks!!
Is there anyway to just go for a run without the workout kicking in or once you upload a workout does it always automatically start once you start a run?
Also is it the same for Virtual Pacer?
Sometimes I just want to go for a run and just have the watch track me and not worry about workouts or virtual pacer. Is this possible? I know I can turn off alerts but I don't want to have to be remembering to turn them back on when I do want to do a workout and then back off again.
I hope I'm explaining myself correctly.
Thanks.

My Garmin 15 (bought new a few months ago) has a problem like this at the start of a run, it'll show sub 2:00 km pace and then settle down to the pace I'm actually going at. I googled it and a few people are having worse versions of this problem, more like what you're getting. The advice seems to be wait a minute after it finds a satellite, so it can get a more accurate reading. I haven't tried this myself so I don't know if it'll work for you...

Casey78

My issue isn't that it was giving me the wrong pace it's that it was giving me alerts for a custom workout I had uploaded to the watch instead of just tracking my run like I thought it would.
I thought the workout would have to be selected as an activity before the run for it to start giving you the too fast or slow alerts but it seems once you upload it to the watch and press the start button at the beginning of the run it starts automatically.
Is there any way around this? As I said If I just want to go for a run and have the watch track me is there anyway to stop the watch giving me alerts for the custom workout other than having to turn off alerts every time?

laura_ac3

Ok, heart rate test done. Hope I did it ok - did a 20 min warm up, threw in a couple of strides at the end to get the legs woken up and then ran flat out for 90 seconds, took a minute slow jog recovery and then went flat out for 2 mins, took another minute slow recovery and then went again flat out for just shy of 3 minutes. Cooled down for a 15 min jog home. Average for the run was 162 and the max was 190. It seems to have been at the point just right at the end of the 3 mins before I stopped. It hovered during the rest of the "flat outs" between 182-187. So I presume 190 is reasonably reliable to work off for now?

Clearlier

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Ok, heart rate test done. Hope I did it ok - did a 20 min warm up, threw in a couple of strides at the end to get the legs woken up and then ran flat out for 90 seconds, took a minute slow jog recovery and then went flat out for 2 mins, took another minute slow recovery and then went again flat out for just shy of 3 minutes. Cooled down for a 15 min jog home. Average for the run was 162 and the max was 190. It seems to have been at the point just right at the end of the 3 mins before I stopped. It hovered during the rest of the "flat outs" between 182-187. So I presume 190 is reasonably reliable to work off for now?

Good work laura. 190 should be a good number for you to work off.

Clearlier

So I've uploaded a training plan to the mileage tracker workbook here.

If you want to do three days a week I recommend, Tuesday, Friday and Sunday's training. These can be moved around to suit life but if you can you should avoid training on successive days. Consider adding a long warm down to Friday's training.

For those wishing to traing four days a week, do Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday.

For those wishing to train five days a week, add either Wednesday or Saturday to the training for four days a week.

If you want to train six days a week, leave out Monday.

If you want to train even more than the schedule says add in a recovery effort run on the morning after a hard session.

If there's a race that you want to race don't taper for it but drop Friday's session

The training plan is based on time rather than distance. Distance is important when you're targeting a marathon because you need to be able to run that distance. Now that you have run that distance the length of a shorter race should hold no fears or mystique for you. Focusing on time rather than distance allows you to develop at a pace that is appropriate for you be that fast or slow.

The times that I suggest for the easy runs are suggestions, if it's too much or too little for you you should adjust accordingly. You should however make sure that you follow the progression so that the time you spend running is increased every 5 weeks.

For Tuesday session you don't need to warm up for the marathon pace or the tempo sessions, just use the start of the run as your warm up.

You do need to warm up for the 5k sessions. It takes me 8 - 12 minutes (depending on my level of fitness) of jogging for my body to respond and realise that it's time to start running, start observing your body and work out how long it takes you. Follow that up with the drills from the Friday sessions and a couple of strides to get some leg turnover going. Then get going! 3 minutes recovery between each rep - whatever kind of moving you do make sure that you do keep moving during the recovery periods. The 5k pace sessions shoudn't be too taxing initially but they get a bit more demanding towards the end.

The aim of a recovery run is to help you to recover. For some people 10 mins is plenty, for others they need a half hour shakeout. Trial and error is the only way to find out what works best for you.

The aim is to build upon the training that was done for DCM. Most of you having done the boards plan or a version of Hal Higdon have gotten accustomed to running regularly but for relatively short distances. One of the key goals is to get you used to running for longer more regularly than once a week.

I've designed it to work for people who are training three days a week and also people who want to train all the way up to 7 days a week.
If you're toying between an extra day or supplementary core/strength work then do the supplementary work. It works out better in the long term for 95% of runners.

The technical session proved especially difficult for me to work out. Frankly you need somebody there to observe what you're doing and tell you if you need to make any adjustments. Your balance can be used as a guide on occasion but it's far from perfect. What I'm going to suggest is that you start learning all the drills from the video that I posted earlier. Add 2 each time you do a technical session and do them as part of the warm up for the 5k pace sessions as well. If you have access to a coach then take advantage of it and ask them to give you some feedback on how well you do the drills.

Final piece of advice for this post is to start every run slowly, the Kenyan's shuffle along for the first mile or two of their runs, we should do something similar.

crisco10

Can I ask a really stupid question? What do you mean on Tuesday when you say "5*2 w 3 mins recovery"?

5 x 2 what??

Thanks

Clearlier

crisco10 wrote: »

Can I ask a really stupid question? What do you mean on Tuesday when you say "5*2 w 3 mins recovery"?

5 x 2 what??

Thanks

Aha! Good question! It's 5 times 2 mins @ 5k effort with 3 mins recovery between the reps. I'll clarify that in the plan now.

Clearlier

Any initial thoughts/concerns about the plan? I have tried to design something that allows for a natural progression from the boards/HH marathon plans but I'm happy to adjust it if you feel that I'm not pitching it at the right level.

Firedance

thanks for the plan Clearlier, it looks brilliant & great to have options for 3/4/5 & 6 days! Can I ask, what's the best way to incorporate my club Tuesday sessions into it, its a 2 mile race every Tuesday until Christmas day. Also I'd rather do the Friday sessions on a weekend during the day as I'll have to travel to find a hill so is it OK to swap Friday & Saturday around?

adrian522

Hi all,

Just back from the holidays. No running done at all since October 27th.

Signed up for the 5k on December 6th though so will try and get some easy running in before then.

I'll take a look at this plan and see what it entails but I'm thinking about just easy running for the next 2 weeks, what do you think?

crisco10

Clearlier wrote: »

Aha! Good question! It's 5 times 2 mins @ 5k effort with 3 mins recovery between the reps. I'll clarify that in the plan now.

Ah I hate to answer an answer with another question, but what's the difference between 5k effort and 5k pace?

Looking at plan, it looks nice. I like the way it is scalable from 3 to 7 days! I'll probably do the 4 to 5 day version; but shift it a day. For real life reasons, Monday suits me better for long runs.

Clearlier

Firedance wrote: »

thanks for the plan Clearlier, it looks brilliant & great to have options for 3/4/5 & 6 days! Can I ask, what's the best way to incorporate my club Tuesday sessions into it, its a 2 mile race every Tuesday until Christmas day. Also I'd rather do the Friday sessions on a weekend during the day as I'll have to travel to find a hill so is it OK to swap Friday & Saturday around?

I would do the 2 miles race instead of the Tuesday session and pick up the plan as is after Christmas. The main things you miss out on are the tempo and marathon pace sessions but you'll only miss one of each.

An alternative to the hills on Fridays is steps. Even a set of stairs in a house would do you for the short hills, you'd need something more like a stadium for the longer hills though. You can switch the sessions around to suit. I recommend having a day in between the three core sessions but that's mostly aimed at injury prevention. If it suits you best to have them on successive days then just keep a close eye on what your body is telling you and if in doubt back off a bit. It's always better to be undertrained and fit to run than well trained and injured!

Clearlier

adrian522 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just back from the holidays. No running done at all since October 27th.

Signed up for the 5k on December 6th though so will try and get some easy running in before then.

I'll take a look at this plan and see what it entails but I'm thinking about just easy running for the next 2 weeks, what do you think?

Definitely, actually I'd make it 3. Better shorter runs more regularly than longer runs less frequently. At that point you can either start the plan from the start of it or if you're feeling good jump in with everybody else.

Clearlier

crisco10 wrote: »

Ah I hate to answer an answer with another question, but what's the difference between 5k effort and 5k pace?

Looking at plan, it looks nice. I like the way it is scalable from 3 to 7 days! I'll probably do the 4 to 5 day version; but shift it a day. For real life reasons, Monday suits me better for long runs.

No problem, I'd much much rather be asked questions than have people not understand.

The difference between 5k effort and 5k pace is relatively hard to judge if you haven't run a 5k recently but 5k effort is the pace at which you could run a 5k now and 5k pace would be the pace at which you hope to run a 5k at some point in the future.

Take someone who has just run a 5k in 30 minutes but wants to target 27 minutes. Their 5k effort right now should come in at 6min/km. That should improve over the course of the training plan eventually ending up (hopefully at 5:24min/km). Doing the reps at a target pace risks overstretching you early in the plan and later in the plan limiting your potential which might be much faster than 27 minutes.

Firedance

Clearlier wrote: »

I would do the 2 miles race instead of the Tuesday session and pick up the plan as is after Christmas. The main things you miss out on are the tempo and marathon pace sessions but you'll only miss one of each.

An alternative to the hills on Fridays is steps. Even a set of stairs in a house would do you for the short hills, you'd need something more like a stadium for the longer hills though. You can switch the sessions around to suit. I recommend having a day in between the three core sessions but that's mostly aimed at injury prevention. If it suits you best to have them on successive days then just keep a close eye on what your body is telling you and if in doubt back off a bit. It's always better to be undertrained and fit to run than well trained and injured!

perfect thanks, meant to ask also, what is our 'easy' pace now or what are we basing it on, might it be +60/90 sec on a 10K pace or HM pace or would just running to feel work here?

Clearlier

Firedance wrote: »

perfect thanks, meant to ask also, what is our 'easy' pace now or what are we basing it on, might it be +60/90 sec on a 10K pace or HM pace or would just running to feel work here?

If you have a heart rate monitor and a max reading then put your numbers in the box here to calculate the heart rate range that you should train in. If you also have a resting heart rate measurement you can put that in the lower box and the ranges for that are even more accurate (most useful for those with a high resting heart rate. N.B. Max heart rate doesn't really change, resting heart rate most definitely does so review these ranges every 3 weeks.

If you haven't got a heart rate monitor then you need to go by feel. Easy is a relaxed effort at a pace that you feel like you could keep up all day (after the initial 10 - 15 min warm up period).

smashiner

Help needed!!

I finished the DCM and I am struggling with a dull pain on the outside of my left knee since. It comes on after 2-3K of running and is just a 'sore achey' pain. A friend of mine is in a Running club and he reckons it is my IT Band, and after a bit of Googling I think that he is right.

Went to a good Physio before the Mo 10K last week to get re-aligned but it still came on after 2-3K and I was able to finish the race but did not enjoy it as much as I should have due to the nagging pain. Cycled a few days early last week, but this didn't seem to help as it was sore afterward too....I did a light 5K last night but had to stop after 4K and walk home ........very frustrating :(:(

I am now going to 'bench myself' and stop running for a few weeks and do the whole RICE thing, plus I was told truck load of stretching and Tennis Ball / Foam Roller treatment will help.

Not looking for medical advice as I know that we can't really do that on Boards, but was wondering if anyone else has had this injury and what experiences they went through to help them??

Really miss running but I know if I keep going as I am, the injury will not clear up....

adrian522

You should get it looked at again by your Physio, a lot of injuries will clear up with rest, but a lot will require additional treatment.

I'd go back to the Physio again or else get a second opinion if you are not happy with the original physio.

Joleigh

Did my local park run for the first time on sat in 25.19. I came first in my age group and I was the 3rd female across the line! That boosted my confidence although there wasn't that many people running. hopefully I can get under 25mins. I'm running 3 or 4 days a week but I'm not following a plan at the moment. I don't mind running late at night during the summer but 9pm on the dark evenings is a little unnerving.

Did you hear about the girl out running on sat morn who was dragged into the Boyne river? Scary.

Dub13

The plan looks very good, I am looking forward to getting stuck into it. I plan on doing 6 days a week most week's as that has become the norm for me so will keep it up.

MaggotBrain

smashiner wrote: »

Help needed!!

I finished the DCM and I am struggling with a dull pain on the outside of my left knee since. It comes on after 2-3K of running and is just a 'sore achey' pain. A friend of mine is in a Running club and he reckons it is my IT Band, and after a bit of Googling I think that he is right.

Went to a good Physio before the Mo 10K last week to get re-aligned but it still came on after 2-3K and I was able to finish the race but did not enjoy it as much as I should have due to the nagging pain. Cycled a few days early last week, but this didn't seem to help as it was sore afterward too....I did a light 5K last night but had to stop after 4K and walk home ........very frustrating :(:(

I am now going to 'bench myself' and stop running for a few weeks and do the whole RICE thing, plus I was told truck load of stretching and Tennis Ball / Foam Roller treatment will help.

Not looking for medical advice as I know that we can't really do that on Boards, but was wondering if anyone else has had this injury and what experiences they went through to help them??

Really miss running but I know if I keep going as I am, the injury will not clear up....

In the exact same boat. Pain will stop me running though after 1km. Physio said it was an extremely tight IT band, but stretching is not helping at all. Going a bit psychotic now without running.

Firedance

MaggotBrain wrote: »

In the exact same boat. Pain will stop me running though after 1km. Physio said it was an extremely tight IT band, but stretching is not helping at all. Going a bit psychotic now without running.

I'm not an expert but just as an fyi I also had issues with my it band, after foam rolling & stretching as advised by one physio another physio advised that you cant actually stretch the IT band and advised to concentrate on TFL & core work - I have had no issues since, a 2nd opinion never hurts, there,are a few athletics physios out there who really know their stuff.

hillsiderunner

MaggotBrain wrote: »

In the exact same boat. Pain will stop me running though after 1km. Physio said it was an extremely tight IT band, but stretching is not helping at all. Going a bit psychotic now without running.

For a ITB issue, if it's become inflamed (ie, hurting after 1k) you will need to take some weeks off running. And also do some exercises the physio will give you - I think for me what was most helpful was a one-leg squat/balance (on the involved leg) where the *torso* was moved forwards & back-to-upright very slowly... I also think those balance exercises like the ones in the 30-day challenge help a good bit.

Once it's fixed, avoid downhills for a while ... always bring some taxi/bus-fare on long runs in case it starts niggling - stop straight away. It's a pain in the neck but it can be kept under control if you back-off from distance and downhills when you start getting the warning signs! I am rehab-ing an injury myself at the moment (not the ITB, that's under control these days), so I've plenty of sympathy for anyone off the roads!

(of course, physio's word is most important as always. And I forgot to mention that in the early stages mine did a few treatments where he dug into the band with a torture instrument. After he'd done that a few times he set the exercises. That was all after one big flare-up I had years ago.)

laura_ac3

Clearlier wrote: »

Any initial thoughts/concerns about the plan? I have tried to design something that allows for a natural progression from the boards/HH marathon plans but I'm happy to adjust it if you feel that I'm not pitching it at the right level.

Like others have said I like the ability to scale it depending on days available, especially if some weeks I can do 4 days and others 5 for example. I like the look of the variety in the Tuesday sessions. Quick question if I may - the red boxes refer to tailoring to the different targets we may have - would I be correct in saying these relate to our spring targets?

adrian522

First run since DCM, just over 5 miles @ 9:42 m/m

Nice and easy, a bit of a stitch for the first half. Nice to get going again.

Clearlier

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Like others have said I like the ability to scale it depending on days available, especially if some weeks I can do 4 days and others 5 for example. I like the look of the variety in the Tuesday sessions. Quick question if I may - the red boxes refer to tailoring to the different targets we may have - would I be correct in saying these relate to our spring targets?

If you're doing 4 days one week and 5 the next be careful not to do too much on the 5th day, just make it a 30 min easy run. One of the big things that you aim for as you develop your running abilities is consistency.

The red boxes are as much notes to myself as anything else. They hint at what the sessions will be for each distance if we do a specific phase. A specific phase is where you're preparing for a specific distance and it follows a base phase such as the plan that we're following at the moment.

Hope that makes sense, let me know if it doesn't!

Dub13

I did that 5*2mins@5k effort w 3 mins recovery session today at lunchtime, was a good one I enjoyed it, warmed up for 18 min before. Avg HR: 154 bpm and the Max HR: 169 bpm. This is bang on for the new cell added in the plan as that has me down for a Tempo run 154 - 167 bpm.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/639763793

Firedance

am so tired this week for some reason.... I'm trying to work on getting a 16 min 2 miles for the winter league, I know I need to run each lap in 2 mins (or 1.59 if possible) and I know I need to be doing 8 min miles to get a time of 16. When I look at my stats though I'm confused, lap times are mostly over the 2 mins but average pace for those laps is under 8 min miles. I know the track is a hard place to get good watch stats but I'd really love to figure out how I can do better here other than the obvious 'run faster'!

http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/640111125

Clearlier

Firedance wrote: »

am so tired this week for some reason.... I'm trying to work on getting a 16 min 2 miles for the winter league, I know I need to run each lap in 2 mins (or 1.59 if possible) and I know I need to be doing 8 min miles to get a time of 16. When I look at my stats though I'm confused, lap times are mostly over the 2 mins but average pace for those laps is under 8 min miles. I know the track is a hard place to get good watch stats but I'd really love to figure out how I can do better here other than the obvious 'run faster'!

http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/640111125

Hi Firedance, As you've discovered you can't rely on your garmin for accurate pace measurement when running on a track. It's better than it used to be but still not accurate. It might help you to find out where the 100m markers are on the track so that you can track your pace at more regular intervals.

A small detail but a 2 mile race on a track should start 18m behind the standard start line because a mile is 1609.xx metres in length so you need to be travelling very slightly quicker than 2 mins per lap.

As to how to get there, just run more and continually stimulate your body to get fitter. It really is that simple.

Firedance

Clearlier wrote: »

Hi Firedance, As you've discovered you can't rely on your garmin for accurate pace measurement when running on a track. It's better than it used to be but still not accurate. It might help you to find out where the 100m markers are on the track so that you can track your pace at more regular intervals.

A small detail but a 2 mile race on a track should start 18m behind the standard start line because a mile is 1609.xx metres in length so you need to be travelling very slightly quicker than 2 mins per lap.

As to how to get there, just run more and continually stimulate your body to get fitter. It really is that simple.

Thank you! I'd never have known that, something to aim for :-)