#bringdownjulianblanc

Links234

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/11/05/voices/lets-ensure-happy-returns-japan-vile-dating-coach/#.VFyo3sr1t0J

Yeah, seriously needs to be in prison

Rubberchikken

doesn't he just sound like every woman's dream:eek:

if what he's doing is actually true, the lad is one nut short of a visit from men in white coats.

Doctor Jimbob

Grayson wrote: »

No it doesn't. It teaches how social interactions operate. It teaches how a conversation opens, flows and continues. It shows how to remedy an awkward pause or recover if you say something stupid. It shows how to tell a joke. It's pretty much showing how to be the best, most interesting person you can be, when talking to a member of the opposite sex.

It teaches how to manipulate social interactions to ones own wants, you mean. How to make interactions mechanical rather than (and I hate to use this cliche but dammit it fits) being yourself. All of the positives you list there can be obtained in better, healthier ways than turning to the seedy PUA community.

The guy in the OP is the exception. Advocating violence in PUA is probably rarer than it is in real life. That's because walking up to a woman and choking/slapping her is probably one of the worst opening lines a guy could use.

I'll agree with this, using the guy mentioned as a stick to beat all PUA types with is over the top.

I'm amazed by the attitude of some people in this thread. Obviously lying to a woman to get sex is wrong, but that's not was PUA is. People who lie to women can also use PUA but PUA is not about lying. It's just about how to be a fun person that women want to talk to.

Isn't it though? Anything I've read on the topic (and I'll admit to researching the stuff quite a bit a few days ago during an erm...barren spell :pac:) certainly seems to dehumanise women to at least some extent, and make it into a numbers game; where there target is racking up 'approaches' rather than building something healthy with anyone you meet. If you look over the material and just take out the good bits you mention then great, more power to you. There are healthier ways to get these benefits though, that don't have a veneer of manipulation.

But people think that any guy who wants to learn social skills is a scumbag. I can only assume it's got something to do with looking down on people. they seem to want a nice guy who's bad at talking to women, to sit at home alone. God help him if he actually reads a book or watches a youtube video to get some tips. He should know his place. He needs to see a psychologist and he should should be ashamed of himself. Doesn't he realise that we're better than him and he should stay that way?

Massive strawman. I don't think anyone thinks what you claim in your opening sentence there. Plenty of people, however, don't think PUA is a healthy way of learning social skills. That is an entirely different thing. Can I ask why you see visiting a psychologist to improve social skills as worse than reading the inane ramblings of some internet douchebag? Alarm bells always start ringing for me when I see the term nice guy used in this kind of context as well. It rarely seems to refer to actually nice guys.

It's not like there's not tons of dating advice out there anyway. There have been dating books for women for years. "How to get/keep/seduce your man" Glossy magazines telling women "What men really like". They run fashion sections on "How to get noticed by him" (yeah, I've been stuck in a dentists waiting room).

I don't think they;re quite comparable, although I wouldn't really agree with these things myself either. You're equating all dating advice for women with a very specific subset of dating advice for men that a lot of people have an issue with.

People have approached friends and asked for advice (And they're not even qualified to give advice :eek:). They've even written to agony aunts.
Are the people who asked friends or read articles in Cosmo scum?

It's a weird and very hysterical over reaction.

In your opinion.

Edit: I should probably add that I'm definitely not the kind of person who only looks down on this kind of thing because I don't 'need' it. My track record with the opposite sex is sporadic, to put it kindly. I'd rather spend my life alone than resort to seedy manipulation though.

nyarlothothep

I don't read much about it so I'm probably open to correction but it seems like this PUA stuff is about putting on a mask, the conversation topics just seem pointless and boring like strategic small talk with pre-defined objectives. I dunno, if the goal is to get laid meh because basically if the guy has no connection or any way to relate to the woman then what's the point? Why pretend to be something you're not? I dunno, it seems like one dons the garb of the cookie cutter ideal boyfriend approved by mainstream Western pop culture by playing up to these expectations, ie fun, witty, with a small measure of 'bad boy'. I don't profess to understand it but it seems better just to talk about what you like and not pretend to be this guy that society thinks is the ideal, if you're not like that to begin with, in other words have some pride in yourself and fck society if it thinks you're reserved, quiet, a nerd or even shy! etc. Of course that means no girlfriends for the most part as most people just go with the flow and have mainstream interests but it also means one may at least have a real relationship without expending all this energy into pretending or artifice. So it seems PUA just plays upon sexual frustration and sense that all else has failed so this is the only way to go. But I would still say have some dignity and pride, be true to oneself and authentic and give two fingers to anyone who thinks you ought to be someone else.

The_Captain

What's with all the one post wonders registering today to talk about how great these pick up losers are?

Doctor Jimbob

Johntops wrote: »

So you can just walk up to beautiful women sober without any nervousness stifling your personality? Good for you, most men can't.

No, of course not. I would have thought it was obvious my reply was a tad tongue in cheek. The thing is though, this PUA crap doesn't help anyone be themselves either. As nyarlothothep put it; it's like putting on a mask.

Grayson

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Massive strawman. I don't think anyone thinks what you claim in your opening sentence there. Plenty of people, however, don't think PUA is a healthy way of learning social skills. That is an entirely different thing. Can I ask why you see visiting a psychologist to improve social skills as worse than reading the inane ramblings of some internet douchebag? Alarm bells always start ringing for me when I see the term nice guy used in this kind of context as well. It rarely seems to refer to actually nice guys.

I'll respond to the rest later (I'm about to grab lunch) but there's been a few ones here. For example...

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Everytime I hear the term PUA I think "what a gigantic dickhead" funnily enough, every person I have ever met who uses this manipulative nonsense has been a gigantic dickhead. Go figure.

there were a couple of others but i can't find them now. I think they've been removed.

Grayson

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Well when they're not OK in every possible way, are they?

they are comparable. They're both social interactions. One is definitely more formal, but they are still the very similar. When you prepare for an interview you prepare pre-scripted answers. You have "bits" that you do.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Interview techniques aren't even comparable to talking to the opposite sex in an informal capacity.

If someone has a personality disorder or something like that then they should look up professional help. Obviously the solution for someone who has social difficulties from say autism isn't to go to a PUA coach. No-one at all, in this thread or any other that I've seen, has ever suggested that.

PUA is about teaching skills. Not everyone is going to be good at talking to members of the opposite sex. It's something that causes stress and confusion to both genders.

bodice ripper

All we need is one woman with presence of mind, good teeth, and a thin pair of trousers on yer man...

newmug

eviltwin wrote: »

I like my friends too much to set them up with someone who is just gagging for the ride or desperate for a girlfriend.................


I've been out with women desperate for a man and it just puts people off, you can sense when someone is that way. Its not appealing and I wouldn't blame anyone for passing it by.

No missus. People who reject others, are just afraid they'll be brought down by the desperate person. Its a real sign of insecurity. Its as if they're just one step above desperation themselves, and they're afraid they'll somehow "catch" it.


Sound people don't reject. They embrace. And by giving, they in turn receive far more than they give. This is a good general rule to live by in life, not just in terms of dating.

Grayson

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No, of course not. I would have thought it was obvious my reply was a tad tongue in cheek. The thing is though, this PUA crap doesn't help anyone be themselves either. As nyarlothothep put it; it's like putting on a mask.

It can be. In The Game Neil Strauss encounters a few different types of people. there's some like Mystery who believe that if you strut around and make yourself noticable, then you'll get noticed. Women will react to the confidence and will be attracted. the thing is, by the end of the bok the guy is having a breakdown. He had all these insecurities and just adopted a persona to hide it. that is, like you and nyarlothothep say, putting on a mask.

The same goes for the Tyler Durden guy in the book. He believed that everything came down to learning routines and knowing beforehand exactly what you would do. If she says X, you already have Y prepared. That's not a mask, but it is learning by rote and certainly not respectful of women.

Others though just viewed it as a tool kit to learn about people, both themselves and women. The brief look I took at it online showed far more people who were in the last group. they were just guys who wanted to understand what they were doing wrong and how they could make themselves better. they're the guys who would see a guy standing with a group of women and talk to them so easily. And they'd think How does he do that. And so they decided they wanted to be a bit more like him.

Doctor Jimbob

Grayson wrote: »

It can be. In The Game Neil Strauss encounters a few different types of people. there's some like Mystery who believe that if you strut around and make yourself noticable, then you'll get noticed. Women will react to the confidence and will be attracted. the thing is, by the end of the bok the guy is having a breakdown. He had all these insecurities and just adopted a persona to hide it. that is, like you and nyarlothothep say, putting on a mask.

The same goes for the Tyler Durden guy in the book. He believed that everything came down to learning routines and knowing beforehand exactly what you would do. If she says X, you already have Y prepared. That's not a mask, but it is learning by rote and certainly not respectful of women.

Others though just viewed it as a tool kit to learn about people, both themselves and women. The brief look I took at it online showed far more people who were in the last group. they were just guys who wanted to understand what they were doing wrong and how they could make themselves better. they're the guys who would see a guy standing with a group of women and talk to them so easily. And they'd think How does he do that. And so they decided they wanted to be a bit more like him.

I'm not denying that there are some positives you can get from the whole thing, my stance is more that you can get those positives from any self help book instead of turning to a community that has unsavory aspects.

tritium

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm not denying that there are some positives you can get from the whole thing, my stance is more that you can get those positives from any self help book instead of turning to a community that has unsavory aspects.

Most communities have unsavory aspects. In many communities (including this one) they can be the most vocal elements. However as we're often told with respect to other groups its unfair to label everyone this way because of the more visible actions of a minority.

I don't disagree that there's asshattery. But if someone is getting something from it then good luck to them. If others find it disrespectful then as adults theyre capable and entitled of telling them to take a hike. Given that this stuff isn't exactly top secret or subtle you're no more likely to walk unawares into this than any other social environment.

Doctor Jimbob

tritium wrote: »

Most communities have unsavory aspects. In many communities (including this one) they can be the most vocal elements. However as we're often told with respect to other groups its unfair to label everyone this way because of the more visible actions of a minority.

I don't disagree that there's asshattery. But if someone is getting something from it then good luck to them. If others find it disrespectful then as adults theyre capable and entitled of telling them to take a hike. Given that this stuff isn't exactly top secret or subtle you're no more likely to walk unawares into this than any other social environment.

Yes but again there is nothing positive that can be gained from it that can't be gained elsewhere. So why associate with a community largely based on obnoxious behaviour at all?

Cosmicfox

The_Captain wrote: »

What's with all the one post wonders registering today to talk about how great these pick up losers are?

I'm starting to notice this too.

sbsquarepants

Never heard of him. But grabbing them by the throat seems a little larry murphyish to me. There is a thin line apparently between picking up and abducting! He sounds like a right prick.

FouxDaFaFa

I can understand why someone would try PUA and how they might accidentally end up going to an event like this without knowing about any violent undertones.

But there is no pretence or "artistry" to this guy, Blanc. He intentionally targets women who don't speak English. He goes around grabbing women by the neck and choking them, forcing Japanese girls down on his crotch while yelling "Pikachu!". It's like something Patrick Bateman would do for the lolz.

I fit the classic "oblivious man" stereotype, except I'm a woman. I really struggle to catch on when men are flirting with me. I practically need a written statement of intent or a klaxon or something before I realise. It's something I try to work on. So, I can sympathise with men who have similar issues.

I worry that PUA takes men who are decent, normal people who just struggle a bit with some social cues or confidence and instills in them a way of thinking that is not conducive to healthy relationships with women. It dehumanises women. It's not interested in teaching you how to create an environment where you and the woman both have a good time and get what you want. It's all about getting what YOU want. And how to avoid those troubling feminists who might challenge you. It's about increasing your social standing and what other people will think of you once you bag that "10".

I'm just of the age where "negging" and other fun PUA tricks are something I encounter all the time on nights out. I had a guy come up to me recently and tell me that he thought I had a great ass but that the top I was wearing was really ugly and I shouldn't have worn it. He seemed baffled that his "compliment them, then bring them down a peg" strategy didn't work.

Louis Theroux made a doc a while back about men who went to Thailand to, essentially, buy brides and bring them back to the UK.

There was one guy who was meeting all the potentials and the only thing they asked him to do, the only "rule", was that he respect local norms and not be overly familiar with the women. A hand on the shoulder, a hand resting on the back, etc. Not anything outrageous by western standards but enough to make people uncomfortable in Thailand. He broke the rule consistently. Because it was about him. And what he wanted. He was a selfish person. And I find a lot of PUA enthusiasts to be the same.

I think this guy Blanc might end up benefiting from all the publicity and it will be great fodder for his "feminists are such b1tches" mantra but, at the same time, at least the women of Australia don't have to worry about meeting him.

The_Captain

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

I think this guy Blanc might end up benefiting from all the publicity

I think originally it might have been great publicity for him and he probably sat there chuckling to himself about the reaction he was getting, but I think it's gone toxic now.
It'll be hard to sell yourself as a dating coach or whatever when your biggest claim to fame is that women find you repulsive

sbsquarepants

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm not denying that there are some positives you can get from the whole thing, my stance is more that you can get those positives from any self help book instead of turning to a community that has unsavory aspects.

Is it not basically what salesmen / advertisers / PR types etc do all the time and no one cares. You tailor what you say to suit the listener - it's basic psychological manipulation.
If you have trouble pulling women and you don't care that you're basically being an asshole then fire ahead. If it works it works. I don't see anything "wrong" with it per se. (This pick up technique bolloxology I mean, not grabbing women by the throat!) The whole thing just smacks of rampant misogyny and desperation to me, neither of which are attractive qualities in anybody!
If they just stopped being such pricks and tried to be a bit nicer, friendlier, less grabby and rapey, they probably wouldn't have such a hard time getting women - it's not like women are in short supply.
If they all tend to avoid you, the problem is you, not them, they can't all be wrong!

tritium

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yes but again there is nothing positive that can be gained from it that can't be gained elsewhere. So why associate with a community largely based on obnoxious behaviour at all?

Except of course some if these guys have been looking for the different bits for a long time and pua seems to out them all together in one spot for them, possibly even in an more accessable and less costly way. Think of it like doing a weekly shop instead of going to the corner shop every day.

Its actually beautifully packaged and marketed, much like most cults or isms - they know their target market and build a product and packaging to entice that market. Sure it's not subtle when you see it from the outside but I could say the same for many of the movements that routinely get discussed on AH. And like most of those movements, once your inside its easy to be blind to the flaws.

Grayson

tritium wrote: »

Most communities have unsavory aspects. In many communities (including this one) they can be the most vocal elements. However as we're often told with respect to other groups its unfair to label everyone this way because of the more visible actions of a minority.

I don't disagree that there's asshattery. But if someone is getting something from it then good luck to them. If others find it disrespectful then as adults theyre capable and entitled of telling them to take a hike. Given that this stuff isn't exactly top secret or subtle you're no more likely to walk unawares into this than any other social environment.

Just look at boards.ie

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Yes but again there is nothing positive that can be gained from it that can't be gained elsewhere. So why associate with a community largely based on obnoxious behaviour at all?

It's not like it's a union. It's quite possible to watch a video or two or read a book and not be associated with them. Even if it goes further, there's not one homogeneous group. They're just people with a shared interest and if there's one shared philosophy it's that men can improve their interactions with women.
I guess the dickheads will congregate around the PUA dickhead forum. the others will congregate at other forums.

Doctor Jimbob

Grayson wrote: »

Just look at boards.ie



It's not like it's a union. It's quite possible to watch a video or two or read a book and not be associated with them. Even if it goes further, there's not one homogeneous group. They're just people with a shared interest and if there's one shared philosophy it's that men can improve their interactions with women.
I guess the dickheads will congregate around the PUA dickhead forum. the others will congregate at other forums.

Any of the material I've looked at always seems to slide at least somewhat into the unsavoury territory. Just to be clear I'm not trying to claim everyone who takes advice from these things is a doucebag, moron, or anything of the sort. Something about the idea as a whole from what I've seen so far just doesn't sit right with me though.

Yarf Yarf

I seriously don't know where people get off on putting their hands on a stranger, be it man or woman. You don't walk up to someone and start touching them, much less put your hands around their neck to chcoke them. It's basic social etiquette. If someone put their hands on me like that my firast instinct would be to lash out. I'm surprised he hasn't been boxed yet or worse. Honestly, his behaviour sounds borderline criminal.

Iwasfrozen

Guy sounds like a total scumbag, not only does he sexually assault the women he treats like a piece of meat he targets low self esteem men to peddle his manipulative crap.

humanji

MOD: I think it can be a given that almost everyone is against the guy in the OP and there's no real reason to keep this thread, especially considering one side is 100% made up of one person re-reg'ing.