Dublin marathon, the elite results

pconn062

wall.e wrote: »

Sorry or delaying a response. I have no problem sharing anything and everything, but I don't want to just give you his training without the information we based this on. I needed to check with Eliud about sharing his personal information before I could release it. He's given the ok.

I am thinking a different thread for this would be appropriate. Perhaps in the Training Logs section? Also, any suggestions for sharing files and websites (since I'm a new member) on a thread?

A new thread would be ideal, keep it in the main forum here, it would get lost a little in the training logs section. Just click on the new thread option on the main forum. Unfortunately you can't post any links for some reason until you have 50 posts but if you want you could PM them to me and I could post them for you if you were happy with that?

leftism

I'm happy to post links and will work with James on publishing Eliud's test results, training programme and general preparation for the Dublin City Marathon as soon as possible.

One of the major goals that we had when starting out on this project was to remain as open and transparent as possible regarding all aspects of an athlete's preparation. This is probably the first opportunity we've had to put that objective to the test, so any questions or comments are most welcome.

career move

leftism wrote: »

I'm happy to post links and will work with James on publishing Eliud's test results, training programme and general preparation for the Dublin City Marathon as soon as possible.

One of the major goals that we had when starting out on this project was to remain as open and transparent as possible regarding all aspects of an athlete's preparation. This is probably the first opportunity we've had to put that objective to the test, so any questions or comments are most welcome.

That's cool. Thanks

average_runner

leftism wrote: »

I'm happy to post links and will work with James on publishing Eliud's test results, training programme and general preparation for the Dublin City Marathon as soon as possible.

One of the major goals that we had when starting out on this project was to remain as open and transparent as possible regarding all aspects of an athlete's preparation. This is probably the first opportunity we've had to put that objective to the test, so any questions or comments are most welcome.

I cant wait to see this, love reading the training plans of top runners.

rom

ultrapercy wrote: »

Edna Kipligat is the lady who is raising her sisters children along with her own family.

doh.

clearly they took the details from here:
http://www.iaaf.org/news/news/great-north-run-edna-kiplagat-mary-keitany

"Kiplagat is a mother of five. She has two children of her own, plus two from her sister Alice, who died of breast cancer in 2003, and another from a neighbour who died in childbirth in 2013. She also runs the Edna Kiplagat Foundation to raise awareness and money for breast cancer."

But it just goes to show that they are at least trying to get details on the athletes. From a management perspective having a simple BIO on a website that can be found on google would do a lot for these athletes. Simple list of PBs does nothing for spectator.

Hard Worker

At 4am on the morning of the marathon, it was 93% humidity. In all my 27 years pulling barriers around and sticking up signage etc, I have never experienced those figures. During the day, humidity went down to 83%. Winds were also reasonably strong. I reckon that times at the top were slow by 3 minutes. Maria was looking for 2.30 / 2.31.
Regarding the elite field: I've said this before - Dublin shouldn't be compared with the Majors or Rotterdam. They spend millions on their appearance fees, prize money and time bonuses. They have live tv which attracts additional sponsorship. Nevertheless, Dublin has 2.08 and 2.26 records. The Russian record was also run in Dublin. If you allow for the fact that the Dublin course might be 2 minutes slower than Berlin / Chicago / Rotterdam, then the Dublin records are impressive when you consider the much smaller prize money.
With the Europeans on in August, the Dublin Marathon domestic field was always going to affected.
Europeans are always invited. However, apart from the Russians, they don't bother with Dublin. There are hundreds of marathons in Germany and central Europe. It's easy to get Kenyans and Ethiopians over, so that's the way it goes. The British athletes don't really come to Dublin either as there are so many good marathons in the UK anyway.

Clearlier

Hard Worker wrote: »

The British athletes don't really come to Dublin either as there are so many good marathons in the UK anyway.

I'm not sure that I agree, there's no really big marathons in the UK in the autumn. There's Edinburgh and Manchester is trying to build a race but neither is in the same league as Dublin. The athletes looking for a fast/qualifying time head mostly to Germany but outside of those chasing specific qualifying times Dublin could easily market itself to British athletes as the big autumn marathon. London in the spring, Dublin in the autumn. My experience is undoubtedly biased but it has been my experience that most British people love the idea of heading over to Dublin. The biggest drawback is the day of the week as there's no equivalent bank holiday in the UK.

dna_leri

I understand the focus for DCM going forward is to bring in athletes that are at or slightly better than the Irish competitors to bring on their performances. Does anyone think that the top Irish athletes are going to race in DCM next year?

I assume that this time next year the top marathoners will be looking to get qualification times for Rio. To do that wouldn't they all be better going to the flatter, faster more predictable courses around Europe or further afield. Could we have the situation next year where none of the top Irish athletes compete in Dublin?

dublin runner

dna_leri wrote: »

I understand the focus for DCM going forward is to bring in athletes that are at or slightly better than the Irish competitors to bring on their performances. Does anyone think that the top Irish athletes are going to race in DCM next year?

I assume that this time next year the top marathoners will be looking to get qualification times for Rio. To do that wouldn't they all be better going to the flatter, faster more predictable courses around Europe or further afield. Could we have the situation next year where none of the top Irish athletes compete in Dublin?

That would be my exact point. Really cannot see many top Irish athletes running the race next year. In my opinion, the race is going in the wrong direction. To say the course is two minutes slower than Rotterdam is frankly wrong. Dublin has always been a slow course but the new course has made it a very slow 'big city marathon'. That's my view.

I hate saying it but I wouldn't be racing it next year. It's a great race but I'll be off to Chicago or Frankfurt.

RayCun

dublin runner wrote: »

Dublin has always been a slow course but the new course has made it a very slow 'big city marathon'.

What is the difference in elevation profile that makes it very slow? How much extra climbing is there now compared to last year? How many minutes do you think this change has added?

dublin runner

RayCun wrote: »

What is the difference in elevation profile that makes it very slow? How much extra climbing is there now compared to last year? How many minutes do you think this change has added?

Just because the elevation gain is the same doesn't mean the course has the same difficulty as before. I ran most of the course during training runs and in the race itself. In my view, the Chesterfield Av. has made the course a lot harder. It's a combination of climb itself, the nature of the climb and the fact it's early in the race. The conditions this year added to the problem and in my view was the reason behind a lot of people blowing up later in the race (above average).

I had a bad race and if the course was as flat as a pancake, I still would have had a bad race. It's my hometown marathon and a race I love but if we are taking about hiting certain times rather than simply racing, it's a course that has many drawbacks.

RayCun

dublin runner wrote: »

Just because the elevation gain is the same doesn't mean the course has the same difficulty as before. I ran most of the course during training runs and in the race itself. In my view, the Chesterfield Av. has made the course a lot harder. It's a combination of climb itself, the nature of the climb and the fact it's early in the race. The conditions this year added to the problem and in my view was the reason behind a lot of people blowing up later in the race (above average).

Chesterfield Avenue is a tough run all right, but 2/3 of that climb were in the course already, in the run up to the north circular and in the section in the park that we had anyway. Maybe it requires more considered pacing now, maybe it is absolutely harder to some degree. I don't think many conclusions can be drawn from this year's race though because the weather was so unfavourable. I don't think there would be much difference in the results had the race been on the old course, but this year's weather.
Saying the course is now 'very slow' is a massive overreaction imo

dublin runner

RayCun wrote: »

Saying the course is now 'very slow' is a massive overreaction imo

It very well might be an over-reaction!

It was more a comment regarding elites chasing times rather than an average runner like myself running the course. If you compare it to most big city marathons, where the course is usually set up to be fast, Dublin is a very slow course. In general the course is ok but when viewed in this regard many elites/faster runners will choose to run somewhere else.

The real acid test will be next year though. It will be very interesting to see the field and whether the top Irish lads run it. It'd be great to see a topnotch deep field but I have my doubts.

Dublin must compare itself to marathons like Rotterdam and Frankfurt (for example). I really believe that not striving for the best possible sponsorship/tv coverage/elite field etc. is a defeatist attitude.

pconn062

Hard Worker wrote: »

At 4am on the morning of the marathon, it was 93% humidity. In all my 27 years pulling barriers around and sticking up signage etc, I have never experienced those figures. During the day, humidity went down to 83%. Winds were also reasonably strong. I reckon that times at the top were slow by 3 minutes. Maria was looking for 2.30 / 2.31.
Regarding the elite field: I've said this before - Dublin shouldn't be compared with the Majors or Rotterdam. They spend millions on their appearance fees, prize money and time bonuses. They have live tv which attracts additional sponsorship. Nevertheless, Dublin has 2.08 and 2.26 records. The Russian record was also run in Dublin. If you allow for the fact that the Dublin course might be 2 minutes slower than Berlin / Chicago / Rotterdam, then the Dublin records are impressive when you consider the much smaller prize money.
With the Europeans on in August, the Dublin Marathon domestic field was always going to affected.
Europeans are always invited. However, apart from the Russians, they don't bother with Dublin. There are hundreds of marathons in Germany and central Europe. It's easy to get Kenyans and Ethiopians over, so that's the way it goes. The British athletes don't really come to Dublin either as there are so many good marathons in the UK anyway.

I was wondering could you give us any insight Hardworker, what is the long term vision for the Dublin Marathon elite wise? Are there ambitions to try and grow the race so that it could be comparable to Rotterdam or Frankfurt in terms of elite field and prize/appearance money? This would obviously mean trying to secure much more sponsorship and/or TV coverage. I realise this is a difficult task! Or is the plan to continue the same within the constraints of the current budget? I'm just curious to know what the ambitions for the future of the race are, do the organisers have a target say to grow the race in terms of the elite field or is the current model going to be continued. Thanks

dublin runner

pconn062 wrote: »

I was wondering could you give us any insight Hardworker, what is the long term vision for the Dublin Marathon elite wise? Are there ambitions to try and grow the race so that it could be comparable to Rotterdam or Frankfurt in terms of elite field and prize/appearance money? This would obviously mean trying to secure much more sponsorship and/or TV coverage. I realise this is a difficult task! Or is the plan to continue the same within the constraints of the current budget? I'm just curious to know what the ambitions for the future of the race are, do the organisers have a target say to grow the race in terms of the elite field or is the current model going to be continued. Thanks

+1 Great question.

By the way, a huge thanks to all the volunteers. Without their help there would be no race. Meant to say that in my previous post!

Hard Worker

dublin runner wrote: »

It very well might be an over-reaction!



Dublin must compare itself to marathons like Rotterdam and Frankfurt (for example). I really believe that not striving for the best possible sponsorship/tv coverage/elite field etc. is a defeatist attitude.

As I said before, you cannot compare Dublin to Rotterdam. Dublin has no chance of securing similar sponsorship to Rotterdam or any of the big German marathons. You would need to have live TV coverage and a much bigger population to win over that type of sponsorship. It's almost like comparing the League of Ireland to the Bundesliga. The Dublin Marathon has very quick times when you consider the amounts spent on Elite fields. I have no doubt that those two records will be broken again. While we will always be looking for suitable competition for the Irish athletes, we will still source new talent ( 60 minute half marathon runners ) just like we have done in the past.
In my opinion, Dublin punches well above its' weight and gets more than value for money when it comes to elite field. Having said that, feedback from people is very welcome. All suggestions are taken on board.
Looking at 2015: we have two women athletes who could run sub 2:30 in Dublin ( Maria McCambridge and Fionnuala Britton ). We also have two men capable of sub 2:12 ( Paul Pollock and Martin Fagan ). It remains to be seen if they run Dublin as they may have already run a Spring marathon. By the way, I've no idea what the plans of any of those 4 athletes are.

RayCun

Will there be another attempt to arrange automatic selection for Dublin marathon winners with the qualifying times?

RayCun

oh, speaking of sponsorship and the money available to marathons...
Have the marathon committee been following the plans to hold an Ironman triathlon in Dublin next year? It seems that the Ironman company expect six-figure support from the host city to hold such a race. That's the kind of funding that would allow DCM to greatly increase the prize fund, pay appearance fees, lower entry prices, increase marketing budgets, maybe even get the race televised. Given that DCM attracts a much larger number of foreign participants and internal tourists, is there anything that can be done to get similar funding from the city?
(by 'anything', I am not excluding 'marching on the council offices with pitchforks and flaming torches' )

dna_leri

Hard Worker wrote: »

Looking at 2015: we have two women athletes who could run sub 2:30 in Dublin ( Maria McCambridge and Fionnuala Britton ). We also have two men capable of sub 2:12 ( Paul Pollock and Martin Fagan ). It remains to be seen if they run Dublin as they may have already run a Spring marathon. By the way, I've no idea what the plans of any of those 4 athletes are.

I understand that funding is limited but if you were one of those 4 athletes named above and your lifetime target involved running an Olympic marathon and you did not have the qualifying time from the Spring, your last chance of qualifying would be to get the time in an autumn marathon (Spring 2016 is realistically to late). In that situation would you run Dublin or would you pick another marathon that could be up to 2 mins faster?

In 2016, any Olympic marathoners probably will not be looking to run Dublin. Realistically Dublin will only be an option in the 2 years post Olympics. I know not everyone is a potential Olympian but you do want to attract these athletes and they do think in 4 year cycles.

It would also be wrong to cajole them into running by giving automatic selection to DCM winners with Q times. That would risk short-term DCM benefit v's olympic level athlete gain.

28064212

RayCun wrote: »

Have the marathon committee been following the plans to hold an Ironman triathlon in Dublin next year? It seems that the Ironman company expect six-figure support from the host city to hold such a race. That's the kind of funding that would allow DCM to greatly increase the prize fund, pay appearance fees, lower entry prices, increase marketing budgets, maybe even get the race televised

You can't realistically compare the two. Ironman can pick and choose their host city. Dublin not offering enough? Grand, they'll just pick up and go somewhere else. I can't see the Dublin City Marathon moving to Drogheda because they've offered a more attractive package.

A step in the right direction might be to apply for at least Bronze IAAF status. Again though, talk of challenging Frankfurt or Rotterdam is, at best, premature. It's highly unlikely Dublin will ever get to that level, barring some oil sheikh decides to make us the Dubai of Europe and invests ridiculous amounts of money. Frankfurt and Rotterdam have money, natural resources (i.e. a flat course), and prestige. Dublin doesn't

RayCun

28064212 wrote: »

You can't realistically compare the two. Ironman can pick and choose their host city. Dublin not offering enough? Grand, they'll just pick up and go somewhere else. I can't see the Dublin City Marathon moving to Drogheda because they've offered a more attractive package.

No, that's true.
But DCM can point out that they benefit the city and its citizens more, and supporting DCM would be a better use of the council's money than lining the pockets of Ironman.

To qualify as Bronze label, the marathon would need to have at least five men who have run 2:16 in the preceding three years, and those men would have to represent at least four countries. For the women, same thing but 2:38. I don't think any of the other criteria present a problem. This is something that could easily be attained with council support.

28064212

RayCun wrote: »

No, that's true.
But DCM can point out that they benefit the city and its citizens more, and supporting DCM would be a better use of the council's money than lining the pockets of Ironman.

More deserving? Sure. I don't know about "a better use" though. Say the council has €100k to invest in a sporting event, either DCM or Ironman.

1. Invest it in Ironman:
   • => whole new event that will not happen without the investment
   • => €1.5m totally new money brought into the local economy
2. Invest it in DCM:
   • => Might (optimistically) increase total number of participants from 13,000 to 15,000
   • => €5m brought into local economy
   • => But €4.5m of that would happen regardless of the council's investment, so return is only €500k, compared to €1.4m

In this regard, DCM is a victim of its own success. If numbers were falling and it was struggling, there would be a strong argument for the council stepping in with funding.

* All figures totally made up on the spot and bears no relation to reality

RayCun

If 100k invested in DCM increased the number of participants by 2000, that would be more people than are going to do the ironman in total. (judging by recent Irish and UK events)

You also have to question the benefit of spending money to bring tourists to Dublin in August (not short of existing tourists) versus October (when Dublin is not a particularly attractive destination)

Hard Worker

Dublin City Council already support the Dublin Marathon. Road closures, cleaning up etc costs a lot of money. DCC support us with those and other supports also. They have been very good to the event for the past number of years.
On the other hand, Bord Failte would support some of the smaller marathons outside Dublin but have no interest in supporting the Dublin Marathon, due to, as already stated, the success it has already built up.
Apart from the financial benefit the Marathon brings to the City, it brings huge community benefit. The numbers of supporters each year is growing.

ultraman1

Think of all the money the tattoo artists will bring to the exchequer....

RayCun

dna_leri wrote: »

I understand that funding is limited but if you were one of those 4 athletes named above and your lifetime target involved running an Olympic marathon and you did not have the qualifying time from the Spring, your last chance of qualifying would be to get the time in an autumn marathon (Spring 2016 is realistically to late). In that situation would you run Dublin or would you pick another marathon that could be up to 2 mins faster?

It's a fair point. You could put it another way - if you were an athlete chasing a qualifying time, why would you go anywhere but Berlin, Frankfurt, London, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, or Eindhoven? And is there anything that Dublin could do to compete with those 6 for qualifying times? Take out Clonskeagh, take out the park, take out the Crumlin wind tunnel (assuming you could make those changes)... make the course a minute faster and people are still going to look for that extra minute abroad.