BMW timing chain problem

Old diesel

unkel wrote: »

That's a bit dramatic

There's one engine in BMW's recent history that has given major trouble and typically only after a hard and long life

And it's not even a proper BMW engine because it only has 4 cylinders and is a diesel

Its definitely a massive issue - but what percentage of 20ds with the N47 will actually run into difficulty.

All of them???, 50 percent, 10 percent, 5 percent, less then 5 percent,????

And is it an avoid N47 20ds like the plague type issue (in terms of likelihood of failure) like the old Mazda 6 2.0 diesel issues????

listermint

TBi wrote: »

Unfortunately the obd service intervals are too long. The oil that comes out (if there is any left) is like tar.

For instance my 5 series has a m54 engine which originally had a 6k mile interval service. But my car has a 12k mile service interval. Same engine, main difference is possibly newer oils.

This, in a nut shell.



Tbh BMW are dare i say it pox bottles. countless issues with varying models since the late 90s and the only country that gets treated with a semblance of out of warranty work or respect is the USA. Litigation central and a massive market for them. Even work that gets done over there under their recall schemes his hidden as much as possible in the Irish Market and sometimes the UK.

robtri

bazz26 wrote: »

I wonder are BMW becoming the Alfa Romeo of the 21st century where only the die hard fans can live with them?

interesting....
just googling around...
since 1985 in the US (I couldnt find stats for Europe) BMW North America has sold 5.7 million cars..... the recall number stands at 5.1 million......

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/03/26/automakers-with-the-lowest-and-highest-recall-rates/

Blazer

robtri wrote: »

interesting....
just googling around...
since 1985 in the US (I couldnt find stats for Europe) BMW North America has sold 5.7 million cars..... the recall number stands at 5.1 million......

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/03/26/automakers-with-the-lowest-and-highest-recall-rates/

its pretty bloody high...higher than I've ever imagined but you left this piece out.

Among the 15 major automakers surveyed, BMW was found to react to safety related defects the most quickly, with 87 percent of its 232 recall campaigns initiated since 1985 taking place within a model’s first three years.

Then you see Volkswagon

Volkswagen of America: 10.2 million recalled/9.7 million sold; 1.06 recall rate...

I'd be very interested to see the year by year breakdown. I suspect a lot of recalls are over electronic safety aids such as airbags etc .

unkel

Recall number is not very meaningful. Could be something minor. There was only 1 recall on the E60 (that I have). Millions of them were sold, but a handful of cars had an electrical fire near the battery (in the boot) iirc. Would have been cheaper for BMW to not recall the cars and just settle for every accident

keano25

Any word from the OP? What's the latest?

PGE1970

Having read all of the above and the many insightful and informative comments, can I ask the following for reply:

- If you currently owned a N47 engine BMW diesel, would you now be inclined to sell it on?

- If you were in the market, would you now avoid the a N47 car based on the risk of what might go wrong and the ancilliary costs involved or do the car's other benefits outweigh this risk?

I'd be very interested for comments.

Comhrá

PGE1970 wrote: »

- If you currently owned a N47 engine BMW diesel, would you now be inclined to sell it on?

If you were in the market, would you now avoid the a N47 car based on the risk of what might go wrong and the ancilliary costs involved or do the car's other benefits outweigh this risk?

I'd be very interested for comments

Yes and yes. I like the 520i but there are other nice cars available without courting such potential grief by buying an N47 Beemer, even with a warranty.

I wouldn't need this sort of grief.

tom_tarbucket

tippman1 wrote: »

Yes and yes. I like the 520i but there are other nice cars available without courting such potential grief by buying an N47 Beemer, even with a warranty.

I wouldn't need this sort of grief.

pardon my ignorance but what does the 520i have to do with the N 47 engine ?

I presume you meant to say 520 D

Comhrá

pardon my ignorance but what does the 520i have to do with the N 47 engine ?

Oops! sorry - not thinking while typing

unkel

Is every single new(ish) BMW buyer doing 15k+ miles these days? If not, why is nobody buying petrol engined ones any more? The newer direct injection ones are also cheap to tax and fuel (but obviously not as good as the diesels), but are far more refined and don't have all sorts of expensive things likely to go wrong on them

Oafley Jones

Looking at estates at the moment and the 5 series would have been nearly top of the list of it weren't for the engine. As I said before, I won't touch them now. Pity as I really like them.

tom_tarbucket

unkel wrote: »

Is every single new(ish) BMW buyer doing 15k+ miles these days? If not, why is nobody buying petrol engined ones any more? The newer direct injection ones are also cheap to tax and fuel (but obviously not as good as the diesels), but are far more refined and don't have all sorts of expensive things likely to go wrong on them

doubt they are doing half that mileage.
A lot of Irish people are just obsessed with tax and getting tax 200 euro cheaper and fuel a few cent cheaper. don't look at bigger picture. penny wise, pound foolish etc

MetzgerMeister

unkel wrote: »

Is every single new(ish) BMW buyer doing 15k+ miles these days? If not, why is nobody buying petrol engined ones any more? The newer direct injection ones are also cheap to tax and fuel (but obviously not as good as the diesels), but are far more refined and don't have all sorts of expensive things likely to go wrong on them

MuppetCheck

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Weren't you considering a diesel for similar mileage lately?

Bigcheeze

unkel wrote: »

Is every single new(ish) BMW buyer doing 15k+ miles these days? If not, why is nobody buying petrol engined ones any more? The newer direct injection ones are also cheap to tax and fuel (but obviously not as good as the diesels), but are far more refined and don't have all sorts of expensive things likely to go wrong on them

I think the 520i is about 5k more expensive than the 520d, but has same 0-60 time, same bhp, less torque so it's not just about tax.

MuppetCheck

I bet a lot are being bought on PCP deals too. They wouldn't look as attractive if you stuck in the petrol residuals in this country.

tom_tarbucket

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I think the 520i is about 5k more expensive than the 520d, but has same 0-60 time, same bhp, less torque so it's not just about tax.

jaysus, I always thought diesels were dearer to buy due to better mpg, fuel consumption, lower tax, longer life etc

Seweryn

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

jaysus, I always thought diesels were dearer to buy due to better mpg, fuel consumption, lower tax, longer life etc

They are dearer when they are come out of the factory, i.e. ex local taxes, carbon taxes, registration taxes, etc.
Diesel engines are heavier, more complicated and more expensive to manufacture than petrol engines, so yes, Diesel engined cars are more expensive, however after you apply VAT, VRT, etc. the things change then.

Bigcheeze

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

jaysus, I always thought diesels were dearer to buy due to better mpg, fuel consumption, lower tax, longer life etc

historically they were, but due to Co2 based VRT, they became cheaper than petrols for a few years. Now that petrols have narrowed the co2 gap, entry level petrols are sometimes cheaper.

rocky

unkel wrote: »

Is every single new(ish) BMW buyer doing 15k+ miles these days? If not, why is nobody buying petrol engined ones any more? The newer direct injection ones are also cheap to tax and fuel (but obviously not as good as the diesels), but are far more refined and don't have all sorts of expensive things likely to go wrong on them

Have they fixed the HPFP, wastegates, injectors and coilpack issues? Probably HPFP failures are more often found in the States with their lower quality petrol, but the rest?

It'll be difficult to find a reliable replacement for the 530.

veetwin

Part of the issue is lack of availability. I just did a search on Carzone for post 2011 5 series, E class or A6. There is one 2014 petrol A6 and that's your choice. I don't know if you could even order a 5 series or e class in petrol.

robtri

Seweryn wrote: »

They are dearer when they are come out of the factory, i.e. ex local taxes, carbon taxes, registration taxes, etc.
Diesel engines are heavier, more complicated and more expensive to manufacture than petrol engines, so yes, Diesel engined cars are more expensive, however after you apply VAT, VRT, etc. the things change then.

yep according to carzone new car pricing

BMW 520D - Luxury - 4 dr €50,640

BMW 5201 - Luxury - 4 dr €55,610

the diesel is basically 5k cheaper

tom_tarbucket

robtri wrote: »

yep according to carzone new car pricing

BMW 520D - Luxury - 4 dr €50,640

BMW 5201 - Luxury - 4 dr €55,610

the diesel is basically 5k cheaper

very interesting, as I said earlier , was sure it was almost always the other way around

robtri

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

very interesting, as I said earlier , was sure it was almost always the other way around

i was pretty amazed as well at the price difference....

keano25

The price of a chain replacment. Lol.

Leonard Hofstadter

BMW prices in Ireland are closely aligned with those in the UK (before VRT, of course). The 520i is also more expensive than the 520d in the UK, for some daft reason (no VRT excuse over there). In Germany, however, the 520i is €1,700 cheaper than the 520d, not a lot actually. As with Ireland and the UK, the low powered 518d is the cheapest way to get into a 5 series over there, too.

On the other hand, the 320i is €2,250 cheaper than a 320d in Germany, even though the 320d still uses the N47 engine, while the 520d has moved to the B47 (which also has the timing chain in the wrong place incidentally, but I will give BMW the benefit of the doubt with the B47 for the moment), which also has more power than the 520i. Makes no sense that you have to pay more on a 3 series to get the diesel equivalent, which is an older, more unreliable (potentially - let's wait and see what problems the B47 gives in a few years time) and less powerful engine.

Wheelnut

I seem to recall (can't find it just now) that my engine is type N47N, and I don't know what the second "N" stands for.

whiterebel

Wheelnut wrote: »

I seem to recall (can't find it just now) that my engine is type N47N, and I don't know what the second "N" stands for.

Nackered?

galwaytt

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Looking at estates at the moment and the 5 series would have been nearly top of the list of it weren't for the engine. As I said before, I won't touch them now. Pity as I really like them.

...you need a glass half-full approach you do: find the car, haggle like mad, and then if you can get a 5k discount for a future chain job, buy it. Cost covered on Day 1 :pac: