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2nd rate colleges in Ireland?

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    #92
    Hitchens
    Registered Users Posts: 8,003 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Nonsense article. If you pick a course you have a genuine interest in, get strong results, pick the appropriate company and interview well, you'll get a job.

    I would love to see a profile of his emoloyees in Hyderbad to see what shining diamonds of educational institutes they came from.
    yes, I would agree completely with the content of your post


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    #93
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    shuyin1 wrote: »
    Would you hire a qualified accountant A)Uni + big 4 trained or B)I.T + big 4 trained? Just curious why there's a perceived excellence attached to Universities or lack of in I.T's. The Big 4 hire extensively from both every year, they wouldn't continue if the caliber wasn't up to standards.

    I would hire A all else being equal. In general, those going to university rather than IT are more likely to be a higher standard of student in the first place, and more likely to have gone through a higher standard of 3rd level course. There are plenty exceptions of course. Excellent recruits from IT. And low grade recruits from universities. But you go with the more likely bet, not the exceptions.


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    #94
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    shuyin1 wrote: »
    Would you hire a qualified accountant A)Uni + big 4 trained or B)I.T + big 4 trained? Just curious why there's a perceived excellence attached to Universities or lack of in I.T's. The Big 4 hire extensively from both every year, they wouldn't continue if the caliber wasn't up to standards.

    Personally, I'd hire the one who performs best in the interview....

    If you allow the type of third level institute they went to, drive your decision on who to hire. You're probably not very good when it comes to hiring.


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    #95
    Sprog 4
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Sprog 4


    Why is it that courses here are 4 years (as standard for a level 8 degree) whereas the same thing can usually be done in 3 in the UK?

    I'm in my second year of a course in a certain university in Dublin. I've done the what is essentially the same module 3 times already (with slightly different names taught by different people), another module twice, and a few modules that just seemed completely irrelevant to my course and prospective career (and consequently completely uninteresting to most of the students). The distribution of time is appalling. We have a pitiful amount of lecture time per week and Fridays are completely free for some reason. I signed up for a 'full-time course' - it appears I was mislead.


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    #96
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Sprog 4 wrote: »
    Why is it that courses here are 4 years (as standard for a level 8 degree) whereas the same thing can usually be done in 3 in the UK?

    I'm in my second year of a course in a certain university in Dublin. I've done the what is essentially the same module 3 times already (with slightly different names taught by different people), another module twice, and a few modules that just seemed completely irrelevant to my course and prospective career (and consequently completely uninteresting to most of the students). The distribution of time is appalling. We have a pitiful amount of lecture time per week and Fridays are completely free for some reason. I signed up for a 'full-time course' - it appears I was mislead.

    Old boys club. Also, they get paid per head, per year


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    #97
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    I would hire A all else being equal. In general, those going to university rather than IT are more likely to be a higher standard of student in the first place, and more likely to have gone through a higher standard of 3rd level course. There are plenty exceptions of course. Excellent recruits from IT. And low grade recruits from universities. But you go with the more likely bet, not the exceptions.

    It really depends on the industry,technical industry I wouldn't look at a university student (DCU aside), journalist role etc I wouldn't look at an IT student if all was equal.

    I wouldn't agree that those going to a University are of a higher standard either, sure DIT's points in areas are greater than universities.


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    #98
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Old boys club. Also, they get paid per head, per year

    Also another argument for IT's,the old boys club is far more diminished.Those lecturing tend to be from within the industry they're teaching with relevant experience opposed to purely academic lecturers.


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    #99
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Sprog 4 wrote: »
    The distribution of time is appalling. We have a pitiful amount of lecture time per week and Fridays are completely free for some reason. I signed up for a 'full-time course' - it appears I was mislead.
    That takes me back.

    I had Fridays off as well, throughout my course. At one stage, I had no classes on Mondays OR Fridays. I was in for a three-day week. They could have delivered the week's lectures over two days. I could easily have held down a full-time job.

    The bit that confused me was, how on Earth were most of my lecturers holding down full-time positions? The best ones were part-time, mind you.


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    #100
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    based on my experience, there's a big difference in the standard of graduates we tend to get in from the local IT v the local NUI College. The former show less initiative, usually require more instruction and supervision, and generally have poorer communication & literacy skills.

    Thats the funniest post I've seen here in a while!!

    I did very well in the leaving but choose to go to an IT. Got a 1.1, work in the industry I want as do the vast majority of my classmates and earn more than enough so your bull**** post is....well bull****!


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    #101
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Sprog 4 wrote: »
    Why is it that courses here are 4 years (as standard for a level 8 degree) whereas the same thing can usually be done in 3 in the UK?

    I'm in my second year of a course in a certain university in Dublin. I've done the what is essentially the same module 3 times already (with slightly different names taught by different people), another module twice, and a few modules that just seemed completely irrelevant to my course and prospective career (and consequently completely uninteresting to most of the students). The distribution of time is appalling. We have a pitiful amount of lecture time per week and Fridays are completely free for some reason. I signed up for a 'full-time course' - it appears I was mislead.

    they just throw in random modules to make up the credits......when you leave uni you will still have to be trained up by the employer despite a four year course.....

    im cynical but i think four years of lectures is a waste in some courses. where you really learn is on the job IMO....

    i also think that for a graduate job how you come across as a person is as vital if not more important than your degree


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    #102
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Got a 1.1

    Why are people referring to firsts as 1.1?

    There is no such thing as a 1.2

    It goes 1; 2.1; 2.2.


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    #103
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Also another argument for IT's,the old boys club is far more diminished.Those lecturing tend to be from within the industry they're teaching with relevant experience opposed to purely academic lecturers.

    In the IT, I attended. Our lecturers were just as bad as University lecturers. They would attend training courses during the summer and then teach us what they learned.. They were by no means experts, since they did the course in a matter of weeks and then tried to regurgitate what they had been told. We had an assignment, we all failed. When we went to the lecturer to ask him to show us how to do it, he couldn't either. He ended up scrapping the assignment and giving us all another one because he was found out. What he taught us didn't work.....

    But at the same time, there were part time Masters courses run in the evenings. As the hours were made to suit people who were working, the hours also suited people who wanted to lecture and were also working. So some of the guys working by day in the actual Industry ended up teaching...Much, Much more valuable.

    My GF works for a University in America. They have a requirement that the lecturers be active in their area of study and NOT just publishing papers that could be easily refuted if somebody bothered to scrutinize the research.

    The whole thing is a sh1t show. A lot of people who go to college or University and get their degrees get pretty defensive when you call out how crap they are. Because they hold onto it being a big achievement in their lives. Also for some reason people take pride in the fact that they attended a certain campus...it's all like an old boys CLUB.


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    #104
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Roquentin wrote: »
    they just throw in random modules to make up the credits......when you leave uni you will still have to be trained up by the employer despite a four year course.....

    WINNER, WINNER!

    A guy I worked with in the US, I think said it best.

    All a degree proves, is that you can be trained.

    I attended a graduation ceremony a couple of weeks ago, they instructed the graduates to move their tassels from one side to the other to signify them moving from an Academic to a Professional...

    I don't get that. It's like people who get their degree and start referring to themselves as an Engineer. Yeahhhh Whatever....


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    #105
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    In the IT, I attended. Our lecturers were just as bad as University lecturers. They would attend training courses during the summer and then teach us what they learned.. They were by no means experts, since they did the course in a matter of weeks and then tried to regurgitate what they had been told. We had an assignment, we all failed. When we went to the lecturer to ask him to show us how to do it, he couldn't either. He ended up scrapping the assignment and giving us all another one because he was found out. What he taught us didn't work.....

    But at the same time, there were part time Masters courses run in the evenings. As the hours were made to suit people who were working, the hours also suited people who wanted to lecture and were also working. So some of the guys working by day in the actual Industry ended up teaching...Much, Much more valuable.

    My GF works for a University in America. They have a requirement that the lecturers be active in their area of study and NOT just publishing papers that could be easily refuted if somebody bothered to scrutinize the research.

    The whole thing is a sh1t show. A lot of people who go to college or University and get their degrees get pretty defensive when you call out how crap they are. Because they hold onto it being a big achievement in their lives. Also for some reason people take pride in the fact that they attended a certain campus...it's all like an old boys CLUB.

    i totally agree. a lot of people going to college just to say they went....

    looking back college was a bit of a piss take. they were trying to pass us regardless.....id do an assignment the day before it was due and get 60%


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    #106
    shuyin1
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭shuyin1


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    I would hire A all else being equal. In general, those going to university rather than IT are more likely to be a higher standard of student in the first place, and more likely to have gone through a higher standard of 3rd level course. There are plenty exceptions of course. Excellent recruits from IT. And low grade recruits from universities. But you go with the more likely bet, not the exceptions.

    That's the problem I was trying to highlight, perceived excellence.
    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Personally, I'd hire the one who performs best in the interview....

    If you allow the type of third level institute they went to, drive your decision on who to hire. You're probably not very good when it comes to hiring.

    This is more of a true reflection when it comes to post qualification. I know I was very specific with accountancy but as a professional qualification the vast majority undergo both technical/practical training in the same environment, what college you went to means little.


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    #107
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Thats the funniest post I've seen here in a while!!

    I did very well in the leaving but choose to go to an IT. Got a 1.1, work in the industry I want as do the vast majority of my classmates and earn more than enough so your bull**** post is....well bull****!

    thanks & bully for you!!

    notwithstanding your "1.1", I'm only recounting my experience, so while in your opinion it might be bullshit, its my opinion.
    That's the thing about you opinions you see.


    Anyway, I'm off to see how the chaps I voted for are doing in the Seanad...
    :D


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    #108
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

    Anyway, I'm off to see how the chaps I voted for are doing in the Seanad...
    :D

    The former lecturers and teachers? :pac:


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    #109
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    shuyin1 wrote: »
    That's the problem I was trying to highlight, perceived excellence.

    It is not a problem though if the perception is correct.
    You seem to be of the view that it is not?

    Whether the perception is correct or not, is debatable though.


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    #110
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    It is not a problem though if the perception is correct.
    You seem to be of the view that it is not?

    Whether the perception is correct or not, is debatable though.

    Of course, it's not correct. Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world didn't even attend an IT or University.

    Perception based just on paper of where somebody went is wrong....not even up for debate, IMO.


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    #111
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    The former lecturers and teachers? :pac:

    All the teachers are in the Dail!


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    #112
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world didn't even attend an IT or University.
    Neither did some of the most stupid.

    The academically gifted who didn't complete degrees in further education, like Einstein and Bill Gates, are distinctly in the minority. This idea that University doesn't matter is a cop-out.


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    #113
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,695 ✭✭✭billyhead


    I decided to study part time for my degree and post grad and work full time which I think is the best choice for anyone planning to go to college. You gain valuable experience while also getting the same qualifications instead of wasting 4 years on the piss and only attending lectures for 2-3 hours a day. Waste of money and time if you ask me. Now it does take a lo of commitment and time out of you social life etc but its the best route to go.


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    #114
    HIB
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭HIB


    mackg wrote: »
    http://courses.cit.ie/index.cfm/page/course/courseId/861

    http://courses.cit.ie/index.cfm/page/course/courseId/859

    http://courses.cit.ie/index.cfm/page/course/courseId/857

    The outcomes look similiar but I imagine the practical elements of the courses and the different types of placement required would stop a single programme being run.

    Saying that, I couldn't say for definite that these graduates are the ones struggling to find work, which is definitely what they are geared towards with the practical and placement elements.

    I would wonder about their job prospects tbh. Just guessing as I don't own a bar myself, but if I did and I was looking for a bar manager, I imagine I'd be looking for someone with a good few years experience as a bar worker, plus supervisory experience, and in reality they'd probably have to be at least 25-30 years old. The idea of handing the reins to a 21 year old graduate wouldn't appeal to me.


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    #115
    Paulownia
    Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Paulownia


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Of course, it's not correct. Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world didn't even attend an IT or University.

    Perception based just on paper of where somebody went is wrong....not even up for debate, IMO.

    Well it is all right if you are one of the greatest minds in history, you will come to the top anyway but for the rest of us, we need to slog at it, unless you want to take the risk!


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    #116
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    I must get onto my manager to strip me of my six figure salary so...


    (it feels good to say that,SIX figure salary,who thought somebody from an IT could get that from a large multinational without having their CV thrown in the bin.)

    6 figure income
    And a username like celly smunt
    I'm more than a bit sceptical


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    #117
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    thanks & bully for you!!

    notwithstanding your "1.1", I'm only recounting my experience, so while in your opinion it might be bullshit, its my opinion.
    That's the thing about you opinions you see. V


    Anyway, I'm off to see how the chaps I voted for are doing in the Seanad...
    :D

    Your right, its an opinion, doesnt mean it has a place in reality!

    As for your pride in voting in the Seanad, congrats!!!!! I'd rather not be a part of that anti-democratic second chance failed politicians rubbish. Enjoy!


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    #118
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    lanos wrote: »
    6 figure income
    And a username like celly smunt
    I'm more than a bit sceptical

    we all have 6 figure incomes on here......sure im a nobel laureate as well


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    #119
    Butterface
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Butterface


    I don't get the snobbery between ITs and Universities. Many of my brightest friends got degrees from ITs in science disciplines, engineering and comp science and now all have great careers. Then there are my buddies who studied Arts or commerce and are stuck in retail jobs contemplating what Masters to apply for that will actually point them towards a career.

    I studied in an Irish IT, a top UK university and now doing a postgrad in one of our NUIs. The IT degree was very structured, but sometimes in a suffocating way. It felt like I was still in secondary school sometimes, but yet I still felt compelled to keep up with my studying. My UK degree had the bare minimum contact hours and the lectures were pointless anyway because it was all self-directed learning. I could have saved myself £10,000 by just studying this **** myself. The postgrad is intense so far but there is also a lot of regurgitating from the lecturers.. a few times now the some of the lecturers will get lost in the middle of their notes and mention that they are reading from lectures drafted by other members of staff. Most of the notes are from a text book. I spend most of my time wondering what these people are actually contributing to my education since they are not the source of the material they are spouting.


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    #120
    Heisenberg88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Heisenberg88


    Its all about attitude and showing passion for the job. It doesn't matter whether you went to University or an Institute of Technology. They all only teach you about 10% of what is really needed in the work place.

    I went to an Institute of technology because it was within bus difference of where I lived and didn't want to put any financial strain on the parents.

    I graduated in 2011 and had no problem finding work with a 2.1. I got hired in one of the biggest I.T companies in Ireland with two others as graduates and guess what, they came from Institute of technologies as well. There were about 50 going for the graduate roles.


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    #121
    Heisenberg88
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭Heisenberg88


    Heisenberg88 wrote: »
    Its all about attitude and showing passion for the job. It doesn't matter whether you went to University or an Institute of Technology. They all only teach you about 10% of what is really needed in the work place.

    I went to an Institute of technology because it was within bus difference of where I lived and didn't want to put any financial strain on the parents.

    I graduated in 2011 and had no problem finding work with a 2.1. I got hired in one of the biggest I.T companies in Ireland with two others as graduates and guess what, they came from Institute of technologies as well. There were about 50 going for the graduate roles.

    I mean 50 interviewed


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