2nd rate colleges in Ireland?

Hitchens

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/jerry-kennelly-tweak-1744432-Oct2014/

this is one of the things he's saying:

“The regional colleges, as they used to be known, have a lot of courses that are absolutely useless. People spend three years doing what is really a one-year course … it’s a waste of peoples’ time and energy.”

how can he say furthering one's education is useless?

AnonoBoy

Hitchens wrote: »

how can he say furthering one's education is useless?

Well it seems he's saying that some courses are useless as opposed to the idea of further education itself.

shruikan2553

I think he means that spending 3 years learning stuff that could be done in 1 year is a waste.

smash

I'd tend to agree with him. There are a lot of ‘Mickey Mouse courses’ out there these days!

Subjects that should really be part of a semester in an overall course are being split into their own course.

AnonoBoy

smash wrote: »

I'd tend to agree with him. There are a lot of ‘Mickey Mouse courses’ out there these days!

Hey! Walt Disney Institute of Technology plays a valuable role in the education of cartoon animals throughout the country. I won't hear a word against it.

Tzar Chasm

Ah he does have a poiit tho.

there area a fair few waste of time courses in the rtc's.

that said, there arw some good ones too, its often a case of the institution trying to get numbers

The Moldy Gowl

In before the arts courses

shruikan2553

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

In before the arts courses

Thats not hard, they never come into college!

Hitchens

Never spent any time in an RTC, are they really as bad as he's making out?

byhookorbycrook

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Hey! Walt Disney Institute of Technology plays a valuable role in the education of cartoon animals throughout the country. I won't hear a word against it.

Walt Disney's ancestors came from Carlow.At one point ,there was some kind of bursary in his name to the IT in Carlow.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Ahh yes, good old CIT and its "recreational leisure" course. (IMO) still, if you're enjoying it and harming no one - whats the problem?

Hitchens

and he's associated with one of the IT's he's so scathing of

The Moldy Gowl

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Thats not hard, they never come into college!

I spent more days not in college than in college

MagicMarker

Hitchens wrote: »

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/jerry-kennelly-tweak-1744432-Oct2014/

this is one of the things he's saying:

“The regional colleges, as they used to be known, have a lot of courses that are absolutely useless. People spend three years doing what is really a one-year course … it’s a waste of peoples’ time and energy.”

how can he say furthering one's education is useless?

Sorry, I can't focus on the content of that article with that picture.

smash

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Ahh yes, good old CIT and its "recreational leisure" course. (IMO) still, if you're enjoying it and harming no one - whats the problem?

There's a problem if it's a nonsense course with no real career at the end which leaves you on the doll and everyone else picks up the tab while you sit at home blaming the government because there's no jobs in the industry.

smcgiff

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sorry, I can't focus on the content of that article with that picture.

I wonder what category on Stockbyte would they include that picture?

Have they a smug yet gormless section?

Beano

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Ahh yes, good old CIT and its "recreational leisure" course. (IMO) still, if you're enjoying it and harming no one - whats the problem?

what exactly does the study of recreational leisure involve?

Beaner1

IT students can bleat about discrimination all the want but you can't fool employers when it comes to joke courses. The bar is set so low at ITs as they are desperate for students and failing 60% of first years (which they should do from what I've heard) would kill them stone dead in terms of funding.

Shakespeare's Sister

Beano wrote: »

what exactly does the study of recreational leisure involve?

It's for managing a leisure centre and I think there are personal trainer elements too.
I guess a degree has to be a minimum of three years? Four in an I.T. I think.

Journalism in DCU used to be four years which was totally ridiculous. It's three years now.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Ahh yes, good old CIT and its "recreational leisure" course. (IMO) still, if you're enjoying it and harming no one - whats the problem?

Waste of a grant for those who avail of it.

Beano

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

It's for managing a leisure centre and I think there are personal trainer elements too.
I guess a degree has to be a minimum of three years? Four in an I.T. I think.

Journalism in DCU used to be four years which was totally ridiculous. It's three years now.

3 years to learn to be this bloke? http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/CoverArtUnverified/11808.jpg

AnonoBoy

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Walt Disney's ancestors came from Carlow.At one point ,there was some kind of bursary in his name to the IT in Carlow.

Holy sh*t - I was accidentally almost right about something! :eek:

Shakespeare's Sister

Beaner1 wrote: »

IT students can bleat about discrimination all the want but you can't fool employers when it comes to joke courses. The bar is set so low at ITs as they are desperate for students and failing 60% of first years (which they should do from what I've heard) would kill them stone dead in terms of funding.

From what I've heard they're much more structured, disciplined places than universities are.
And third level isn't only about getting a job, but if that's what people prefer to focus on, ITs are very job/training focused.

Beaner1

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

From what I've heard they're much more structured, disciplined places than universities are.
And third level isn't only about getting a job, but if that's what people prefer to focus on, ITs are very job/training focused.

The standard is miles below somewhere like trinity. A 2.1 in an IT is worth less to most employers.

Celly Smunt

Beaner1 wrote: »

The standard is miles below somewhere like trinity. A 2.1 in an IT is worth less to most employers.

Here we go again.

An engineering graduate from DIT or even IT tallaght is preferred to a student with a B.Eng from Trinity.

Universities excel in arts and parts of sciences (not technical sciences as such) where as IT's and I'm going to include DCU here,are far more capable of producing superior grads in the applied sciences and engineering.

History,English,Law etc etc - universities excel

IT,Engineering,Design,Built Environment - IT's hands down.

I wonder when DIT combines with Blanch and Tallaght and becomes DTU will many employers seek engineers from trinity..

mackg

http://www.qualifax.ie/qf/QFPublic/?Mainsec=courses&Subsec=college_details&ID=20

That's a list of the courses in CIT as an example. After a quick perusal I can't see many that are jumping out at me.

Maybe his issue is that a lot more ground could be covered in these courses? Tbf QQI would have approved these courses as having the necessary learning outcomes to be classed as 6/7/8s on the NFQ, the same as their university counterparts.

I don't know to what extent courses are reviewed to ensure they remain relevant in a changing climate or with respect to the latest advancements in the field.

Anecdotally I know of cases where a course was reviewed and altered making the students very pissed off as the "guaranteed questions" on the paper went out the window, but similarly I know of a case where unbelievably outdated material was being delivered on a course due to it not having been revisited in years. Both of these were in different former RTCs.

Tbh we would get a more substantial discussion out of this if the journal's articles were at least as long as a standard primary school essay.

jobbridge4life

I think there are probably too many colleges and universities in Ireland period. Nearly every county seems to want a college and then every second wants a university. You have people from the Midlands who thinks an outrage that they might have to travel to Dublin or Limerick for third level

Taco Chips

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Here we go again.

An engineering graduate from DIT or even IT tallaght is preferred to a student with a B.Eng from Trinity.

Universities excel in arts and parts of sciences (not technical sciences as such) where as IT's and I'm going to include DCU here,are far more capable of producing superior grads in the applied sciences and engineering.

History,English,Law etc etc - universities excel

IT,Engineering,Design,Built Environment - IT's hands down.

I wonder when DIT combines with Blanch and Tallaght and becomes DTU will many employers seek engineers from trinity..

None of thats really true though is it?

AnonoBoy

The snobbery against ITs from people who did a sh*te degree in a "proper" university is hilarious.

Celly Smunt

Taco Chips wrote: »

None of thats really true though is it?

Yes,it very much is.Good luck with the CAO.

Celly Smunt

When it all comes down to it however,your degree means **** all its what you can do that counts.

IT students can do more,IT's are Better.DIT for life broseph's. (ten years where did my graduation go...)

Beaner1

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Yes,it very much is.Good luck with the CAO.

No, your cv will be dumped before you even get an interview for most big employers. Trust me, I know.

mackg

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Yes,it very much is.Good luck with the CAO.

His statement was in no way accurate but yours is on fairly shaky ground too. Degree in engineering from an IoT hands down better than from a university???

Hitchens

“We have only one Irish person working in the team – we have had to employ people in Stockholm, Lisbon and Hyderabad to get the job done, to find the qualified people,” he said.


Only one Irish person..........from all the IT's and Universities?

GreenwayM

Colleges exist to make money and will make a course out of anything!!!

Of course, he's right . . . Choose carefully I would advise anybody and try and see what regard Industry has for the course . . .

Celly Smunt

Beaner1 wrote: »

No, your cv will be dumped before you even get an interview for most big employers. Trust me, I know.

I must get onto my manager to strip me of my six figure salary so...


(it feels good to say that,SIX figure salary,who thought somebody from an IT could get that from a large multinational without having their CV thrown in the bin.)

mackg

Beaner1 wrote: »

No, your cv will be dumped before you even get an interview for most big employers. Trust me, I know.

and how do you know?

AnonoBoy

Beaner1 wrote: »

No, your cv will be dumped before you even get an interview for most big employers. Trust me, I know.

You've worked in HR for most big employers?

Celly Smunt

mackg wrote: »

His statement was in no way accurate but yours is on fairly shaky ground too. Degree in engineering from an IoT hands down better than from a university???

Yes.

mackg

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Yes.

Anything to back that up other than your SIX FIGURE SALARY?

Beaner1

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I must get onto my manager to strip me of my six figure salary so...


(it feels good to say that,SIX figure salary,who thought somebody from an IT could get that from a large multinational without having their CV thrown in the bin.)

You did it th hard way then and before the current employers market. I'm on 170k so nanana.

Celly Smunt

Beaner1 wrote: »

You did it th hard way then and before the current employers market. I'm on 170k so nanana.

Well I'm on 171,000.50 nanananer

byhookorbycrook

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Walt Disney's ancestors came from Carlow.At one point ,there was some kind of bursary in his name to the IT in Carlow.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Sorry, I can't focus on the content of that article with that picture.

Hang on a minute...this guy does look familiar...

http://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2014/10/jerry-kennelly-390x285.jpg

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120316061532/dragonball/images/1/14/Ratatouille_Movie,_Remy.jpg

I think we've uncovered a direct line of Disney ancestry.

AnonoBoy

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Well I'm on 171,000.50 nanananer

What's the exchange rate at the minute?

100 nanananers to the euro or thereabouts?

ToddyDoody

Celly Smunt wrote: »

History,English,Law etc etc - universities excel

IT,Engineering,Design,Built Environment - IT's hands down.

I'd say a mixture of backgrounds is good. There's more to being good at engineering etc. in the so-called real world than aiming to be a ninja with the facts / hands on bits, which is the impression I get when someone says ITs are better than universities at engineering.

Celly Smunt

AnonoBoy wrote: »

What's that in euro?

12500 after tax :-(

Outkast_IRE

I am an engineering student in my final year in CIT, we actively have employers specifically coming to the college looking for the best students. Almost all of the engineering courses are audited by Engineers Ireland and they are pretty strict on what level of maths must be taught and what subjects and topics must be included. They also do spot checks on exams and ensure that they are being marked correctly etc.

Even courses in CIT such as recreational leisure have alot of management & business modules that are very applicable to real world jobs in that industry.

To me the only issue i take fault with really is people that are allowed to sit repeats virtually every semester and carry on and come out with the same qualification at the end.

Also with the levels of funding after being slashed going to colleges i dont know how people expect them to raise their game. The workload on some of the lecturers along with doing their own research the taking care of post grad projects is pretty immense.

SaveOurLyric

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

To me the only issue i take fault with really is people that are allowed to sit repeats virtually every semester and carry on and come out with the same qualification at the end.

Why wouldnt they ? If they've reached the level they've earned the same qualification.

Uncle Ruckus

Any I.T.

conorh91

My university degree consisted of 13 hours per week *including* tutorials.

4 years it took.

It also involved studying French as part of a law degree. Lets just say that whenever I meet French people, we speak English.

I have a friend from the same course who speaks terrible French with a Monaghan accent.

I'm not blaming the university for that. My point is, how the Hell did they let us graduate with a claim to proficiency? People should not be coming out of university with honors degrees, when they can't do what it says on their degrees.

I know this partially reflects badly on me, because it suggests that grade inflation explains my degree result, and that I didn't deserve the grade I got. But I'm just being honest. have no idea what the universities are at. Anyone could have done that degree in two years instead of four.

Taco Chips

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Yes,it very much is.Good luck with the CAO.

My CAO went fine back in the day thanks.

Here, ITs have an important place no doubt about it but trying to claim that the educational standard is somehow much higher there than the likes of Trinity is total rubbish that smacks of chip on shoulder syndrome. Thats great that you're on a 6 figure salary, thank you for telling us. Employers recruit directly from universities also. What is your point? There is certainly not as much hand holding and educational spoon feeding in unis as there is in ITs. Is that what you are trying to say? The standard of student entering both are usually significantly different.