Airbus to launch A321neoLR to replace 757

owenc

Well I hope it goes ahead as I would want our Belfast service and other regional services to stay. I was worried United was going to pull out of the regional airports.

Jack1985

owenc wrote: »

Well I hope it goes ahead as I would want our Belfast service and other regional services to stay. I was worried United was going to pull out of the regional airports.

Belfast as I understand it, is doing ok now since the Chancellor reduced the APD on the route a few years back. In the winter it struggles, but what US routes don't during Jan to Feb. The new A321neoLR would probably see United earn more of a return on EWR-BFS, as it would for the majority of ''provincial international'' routes.

IMO, This is the aircraft JetBlue talked about recently. They are the only (and remain, I believe?) US carrier who have stated publicly they are interested in a NYC-ORK route.

owenc

Yea Belfast is ok but its still quite expensive compared with Dublin. This time i'll be using it though as I am so far from Dublin that it is just traumatising to get a flight from there.

But yea I was looking at seat maps and during winter it is ok except for a sunday and a monday where it seems to be really bad. I think the aircraft is perhaps too large, maybe they could keep the 757 in the summer and reduce it to a 737 (lol 737max in future) in the winter.

I think a slightly smaller aircraft could make it year round.

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

......
But yea I was looking at seat maps and during winter it is ok except for a sunday and a monday where it seems to be really bad. I think the aircraft is perhaps too large, maybe they could keep the 757 in the summer and reduce it to a 737 (lol 737max in future) in the winter.

I think a slightly smaller aircraft could make it year round.

Its not as simple as matching capacity to demand.

Smaller aircraft means less higher cost per seat. Thats why the B757 is in a sweet spot for many airlines. It has the range of a widebody without the costs, whereas a B737-90ER may have the range but will have less profit potential. The B757-200 has kept open some long thin routes that are not viable with other aircraft.

man98

Jack1985 wrote: »

IMO, This is the aircraft JetBlue talked about recently. They are the only (and remain, I believe?) US carrier who have stated publicly they are interested in a NYC-ORK route.

Really? I'd definitely use that!

owenc

I am reading airliners.net and suggestions are good. It's fab what United are doing but honestly a route from Cork,Stansted and Bristol Please!!

People need to have a reality check, you cannot sustain a flight to NYC from every UK airport.

Jack1985

man98 wrote: »

Really? I'd definitely use that!

Yep, bearing in mind these articles were published in 2013/2014 - There plans seem to be after 2017. They also made some speculation in the US recently regarding Hawaii (departing the West Coast) and South America, routes of similar length as NYC-ORK. This is why for JetBlue alone, the A321neoLR could be a real cost effective launch-pad to compete with the majors.

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/jetblue-boss-pours-cold-water-on-ryanairs-10-fares-to-us-30108384.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-11/jetblue-chief-seeks-broader-deeper-international-airline-links.html

Preset No.3

They should drop Belfast too. Sure Dublin is only 100 miles down the road.

lord lucan

Preset No.3 wrote: »

They should drop Belfast too. Sure Dublin is only 100 miles down the road.

Careful now,no need to stoop to his level. Can we get this thread back on topic now,it's had enough detours already.

owenc

That was quite a nasty dig for someone who is supposed to be a moderator.

lord lucan

owenc wrote: »

Stoop to my level. What??

That was quite a nasty dig for someone who is supposed to be a moderator.

You constantly drag threads off topic and relate everything to Belfast and United when they've nothing to do with the topic at hand. It gets tiresome and rubs people up the wrong way.

roundymac

owenc wrote: »

I am reading airliners.net and suggestions are good. It's fab what United are doing but honestly a route from Cork,Stansted and Bristol Please!!

People need to have a reality check, you cannot sustain a flight to NYC from every UK airport.

Just for clarification purpose's, Belfast might be in Ireland but Cork most certainly is not in the UK.:mad:

L1011

roundymac wrote: »

Just for clarification purpose's, Belfast might be in Ireland but Cork most certainly is not in the UK.:mad:

Certainly seemed like it when Lizzy II was doing the rounds a few years ago :pac:

roundymac

MYOB wrote: »

Certainly seemed like it when Lizzy II was doing the rounds a few years ago :pac:

She was Irish for a day, hav'nt you ever gone to the UK(belfast) to do your grocery shopping.:D

smurfjed

I don't like Airbus

Why? Do you have a technical reason for not liking them or just a feeling? How many Airbus aircraft have you flown on?

smurfjed

I'm curious about the extra range for the 321NEOLR, the range is coming at the cost of baggage space, with the inclusion of 3 additional fuel tanks, I guessing that they will have to remove 2-3 baggage containers. Will the aircraft therefore have the baggage capacity for 185 (two class standard) people across the atlantic?

I'm even more curious about the "smart lav"... the things are bloody tiny at the moment

BonkeyDonker

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm curious about the extra range for the 321NEOLR, the range is coming at the cost of baggage space, with the inclusion of 3 additional fuel tanks, I guessing that they will have to remove 2-3 baggage containers. Will the aircraft therefore have the baggage capacity for 185 (two class standard) people across the atlantic?

It could be more a case of reducing total usable cargo space, not just baggage space. The A320 is seven meters shorter and hod a similiar amount of pax.

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm even more curious about the "smart lav"... the things are bloody tiny at the moment

"smart lav" = flying commode.

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm curious about the extra range for the 321NEOLR, the range is coming at the cost of baggage space, with the inclusion of 3 additional fuel tanks, I guessing that they will have to remove 2-3 baggage containers. Will the aircraft therefore have the baggage capacity for 185 (two class standard) people across the atlantic?....

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

It could be more a case of reducing total usable cargo space, not just baggage space. The A320 is seven meters shorter and hod a similiar amount of pax......

The Airbus article states that the current A321neo cannot be retrofitted into an LR model. Therefore I suspect that "LR" involves modification of the airframe to build in the extra fuel tanks, perhaps at the expense of cargo hold capacity. Considering that some A321's already carry more than 200 pax (looking at you EI!!) I suspect enough baggage space will remain.

smurfjed

Therefore I suspect that "LR" involves modification of the airframe to build in the extra fuel tanks, perhaps at the expense of cargo hold capacity

We operate some A320's with additional centre tanks (ACT), they are installed in the cargo hold at the expense of cargo capacity. We were offered the same for the A321 but it just didn't make operational sense for the route structure that we were looking at.
The thing to remember with performance figures such as these is that they are based on Sea Level, ISA, no obstacles and sometimes even with no enroute winds, so it will be interesting to see how this performs on routes such as Cork - JFK.

kub

Doesn't direct from Cork to New York sound like a little tune.....a marketing companies dream.

roundymac

kub wrote: »

Doesn't direct from Cork to New York sound like a little tune.....a marketing companies dream.

I wish it would, could do with T/A down here.

Growler!!!

kub wrote: »

Doesn't direct from Cork to New York sound like a little tune.....a marketing companies dream.

It is a tune. Christy Moore's "Lisdoonvarna"

How’s it goin’ there everybody,
From Cork, New York, Dundalk, Gortahork and Glenamaddy.
Here we are in the County Clare
It’s a long, long way from here to there.

L1011

Most of those are near enough to an airport that's had TATL, just don't go giving Dundalk ideas....

man98

MYOB wrote: »

Most of those are near enough to an airport that's had TATL, just don't go giving Dundalk ideas....

165km isn't overly close... not that ORK is closer than DUB. I know there's no hope of anywhere closer having TATL, but I know Cork to be a great airport and I can stay overnight there with way less bother than DUB. Fingers crossed there'll be a service.

owenc

Well maybe Cork could get a seasonal route but I can't see anything else. After that no more airports need a transatlantic route, you would have Belfast, Cork, Dublin and Shannon which is plenty.

Jack1985

owenc wrote: »

Well maybe Cork could get a seasonal route but I can't see anything else. After that no more airports need a transatlantic route, you would have Belfast, Cork, Dublin and Shannon which is plenty.

I think the correct assumption would be to see how a new ORK-NYC route would affect SNN, could well be the later would become seasonal when the supply from South Munster would be zapped up at Cork. That's always why EI hesitated in launching a ORK-NYC service during the boom, Willie Walsh indicated it would jeopardize SNN-NYC services and thus resisted the lobbying from US multinationals circa 2003 If I remember correctly. Also as I'm sure you are aware by now owenc, demand for more flights is in correlation with actual demand. Once actual demand grows nearly every major airport in the state could have a service to destination A.

roundymac

Just remember Jack that anything north of Mallow will most likly go to SNN, that's the biggest problem ORK faces.

Chris_5339762

Just remember that a Cork transatlantic would not have preclearance as AFAIK there are no facilities of that sort constructed in the airport.

That alone will make most people drive to Shannon instead.

Jack1985

roundymac wrote: »

Just remember Jack that anything north of Mallow will most likly go to SNN, that's the biggest problem ORK faces.

Yep true, but there is a very strong catchment alone for this route even excluding North Cork.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Just remember that a Cork transatlantic would not have preclearance as AFAIK there are no facilities of that sort constructed in the airport.

That alone will make most people drive to Shannon instead.

That's not a majority consensus shared by a recent poll carried out by the Cork CoC, multinationals including Apple and Pfizer based in Cork indicated this would not be a factor in using a proposed NYC route. An airline would be targeting business and leisure pax - Leisure demand is a given, and there is overwhelming support for the business aspect to a service from the likes of Apple, Pfizer etc. That's why the right a/c for this route would be key, an A321neoLR would be an excellent match.

smurfjed

Immigration clearance in the USA is a breeze, i see the availability of the service as a nice to have, but not a prerequisite.

AFAIK, the BA A319 flight across the atlantic lands at Shannon for fuel but doesnt obtain pre-clearance.