Airbus to launch A321neoLR to replace 757

Bsal

100nm more range than the current 757-200W and with 164 passengers, 20 lie flat seats....'Overall, the LR will be about 25% less costly to operate'

http://leehamnews.com/2014/10/21/exclusive-airbus-launches-a321neolr-long-range-to-replace-757-200w/

ProfessorPlum

Bsal wrote: »

100nm more range than the current 757-200W and with 164 passengers, 20 lie flat seats....'Overall, the LR will be about 25% less costly to operate'

http://leehamnews.com/2014/10/21/exclusive-airbus-launches-a321neolr-long-range-to-replace-757-200w/

Great news, and long overdue, but I'm not sure I agree with your title, unless it's wishful thinking on airbus's part

Locker10a

Now how long are EI going to delay in ordering some of these ?

Razor44

i still dont get why Boeing wont develop a 757 replacement.

L1011

Razor44 wrote: »

i still dont get why Boeing wont develop a 757 replacement.

Because its too small a market to build a single aircraft for - the bulk of the 757 market is covered by the 737-900ER.

Airbus can cover it by doing relatively minor (in comparison to a new aircraft) modifications to the 321neo. The 737MAX is, as the name suggests, at its maximum capabilities so they can't provide a similar size/range combination from it - its either the capacity (900/9MAX) or the range (7MAX, ish)

The 737 replacement in 15 years will almost certainly cover the sector but as part rather than all of its target market.

owenc

Good newss

L1011

owenc wrote: »

Good newss

I thought you didn't like transatlantic narrowbodies?

Tenger

Locker10a wrote: »

Now how long are EI going to delay in ordering some of these ?

I would expect them to be very eager to get their hands on 4-5 of these. It looks like they are liking the B757 ops, and that lease deal with ACL was for 3 years initially.


From the Leeham article: The A321neoLR will have about 27% lower trip costs and 24% lower per seat costs than the 757.......Overall, the LR will be about 25% less costly to operate.........Entry into service is slated for the second half of 2018, about two years after the standard A321neo.......

ProfessorPlum

Tenger wrote: »

I would expect them to be very eager to get their hands on 4-5 of these. It looks like they are liking the B757 ops, and that lease is for 3 years initially.

Given that EI have been pushing for the 321neo for a number of years, I'd be surprised if they're not in early with orders.
The 757 will run until 2020, so all going well it should give airbus time to get the Neo rolled out and phased into the fleet.

owenc

MYOB wrote: »

I thought you didn't like transatlantic narrowbodies?

It means my belfast flight can stay.

roundymac

Maybe we'll get a T/A out of Cork.:)

Tenger

roundymac wrote: »

Maybe we'll get a T/A out of Cork.:)

Ah here, no need for flights of fancy...... :p

kub

roundymac wrote: »

Maybe we'll get a T/A out of Cork.:)

At the rate the airport is going any new route is a bonus, never mind t/a but at least this machine does tick the necessary boxes.

MYOB

MYOB wrote: »

I thought you didn't like transatlantic narrowbodies?

Only if United have them 😜

Jack1985

Very long over-due, once EI have sorted out the pension issue before the close of 2014, the shareholders would be very likely to back an order plan for the 321LR - Until such a time the pension issue has been resolved, shareholders have made it clear, they will not be placing any additional funds to new a/c orders. Hence the lack of comment regarding short-haul fleet renewal.

basill

I am loving the optimism, however, I think AL will balk at the cost and limp along with the current setup no matter what they announce in terms of orders. No different to the current 330neo/350 saga.

So long as they can get cheap old reliable airframes and the loads/yields hold up then why spend a fortune on leasing new aircraft. As an earlier poster said their hand is only ever forced to change by a competitor and then its a race to catch up. The strategy is never to be a market leader nor innovator. The ASL model is no different to Stobart in that it enables them to access cheap labour on much lower salaries. It would take a "lot" of fuel savings in order to offset the much much higher lease costs.

But then again maybe a new CEO will bring something to the table and force change......We can live in hope I suppose.

roundymac

Tenger wrote: »

Ah here, no need for flights of fancy...... :p

Ah lads, don't be like that, all I want is a weekly service to JFK, especially the week I start my hols.:D:D

Locker10a

Jack1985 wrote: »

Very long over-due, once EI have sorted out the pension issue before the close of 2014, the shareholders would be very likely to back an order plan for the 321LR - Until such a time the pension issue has been resolved, shareholders have made it clear, they will not be placing any additional funds to new a/c orders. Hence the lack of comment regarding short-haul fleet renewal.

Hope the pensions get sorted smoothly and they can order some new planes and move on! I wonder what are the chances?

kub

roundymac wrote: »

Ah lads, don't be like that, all I want is a weekly service to JFK, especially the week I start my hols.:D:D

Don't hold your breath and the road is called the M8. It's much better than the N20 and we can't be seen to be supporting an airport which is swipping routes from Cork.

roundymac

roundymac wrote: »

Ah lads, don't be like that, all I want is a weekly service to JFK, especially the week I start my hols.:D:D

Problem is Shannon is probably undercutting Corks prices to attract more traffic. Cork will need to offer better incentives to attract more routes. It really shouldn't be losing passengers when numbers are increasing on the Island.

man98

This A321NEO LR sounds brilliant. I'm not sure it will sell in massive volumes though.

roundymac

Deleted User wrote: »

Problem is Shannon is probably undercutting Corks prices to attract more traffic. Cork will need to offer better incentives to attract more routes. It really shouldn't be losing passengers when numbers are increasing on the Island.

There are two sides to that however, (A) will SNN be able to maintain the low prices, it's all right saying that they are getting the business but are they amking money? (B) the DAA are probably quite happy with the M8, the ammount of people going to Dublin from the Cork area because they have the choice is unbelievable. Cork people are not that loyal when it's comes to the airport I'm afraid.:(

Irish Steve

man98 wrote: »

This A321NEO LR sounds brilliant. I'm not sure it will sell in massive volumes though.

if it's 25% cheaper to operate than a 757, that's going to make it attractive, and don't underestimate the number of 757's that are operating on long haul routes.

If the airlines have an alternative, the freight carriers will snap up any 757's that are offered, as they are a very popular freight carrier.

Tenger

man98 wrote: »

This A321NEO LR sounds brilliant. I'm not sure it will sell in massive volumes though.

Well it doesn't really need 'massive numbers' Airbus alrady have massie numbers of A320neo and A321neo orders on the table. This is merely a modified A321neo.
If 100-200 of them sell then I would guess that Airbus will be happy. I expect it will be built on the A321 line so its not as if they have to invest hugely to build it. There are quite a few long narrow routes currently served by the B757-200 that do not have a direct replacement. (Just look at all the B757 routes ex Ireland and UK to the USA)
Look at the A340.....if I rocked up to Toulouse tomorrow with the cash they would build me one, as it built on the A330 assembly line.

owenc

Why are they even making the neo if this is being made?

Jack1985

owenc wrote: »

Why are they even making the neo if this is being made?

Airbus A321neoLR...

owenc

Yes its the same aircraft with a longer range..

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

Why are they even making the neo if this is being made?

This is a specialized longer range version of the A321neo. Most airlines will not require the range of this A321neo LR version. And the A321 itself is merely the stretch version of the A320.

And if it offer 25% cost saving over the B757-200 then any airline currently using that aircrat for its range will gladly jump ship to Airbus in a few years rather than settling for the B737MAX-9

L1011

owenc wrote: »

Yes its the same aircraft with a longer range..

Because most airlines don't need the range and many more of them are going to want to put far more passengers in than this specific model is designed for - the 321neo standard range will be certified for 240.

owenc

Tenger wrote: »

This is a specialized longer range version of the A321neo. Most airlines will not require the range of this A321neo LR version. And the A321 itself is merely the stretch version of the A320.

And if it offer 25% cost saving over the B757-200 then any airline currently using that aircrat for its range will gladly jump ship to Airbus in a few years rather than settling for the B737MAX-9

Oh so it is a niche market then. Very good, I don't like Airbus but I support it as it means that we will keep our Belfast route and all other small routes.

Jack1985

Oh so it is a niche market then.

Niche in terms of a replacement product, not in terms of market size - This could be a huge money winner for Airbus if the US majors jump to replace, let's face it ageing International fleets (primarily as a result of being the largest 757 operators).

owenc

Well I hope it goes ahead as I would want our Belfast service and other regional services to stay. I was worried United was going to pull out of the regional airports.

Jack1985

owenc wrote: »

Well I hope it goes ahead as I would want our Belfast service and other regional services to stay. I was worried United was going to pull out of the regional airports.

Belfast as I understand it, is doing ok now since the Chancellor reduced the APD on the route a few years back. In the winter it struggles, but what US routes don't during Jan to Feb. The new A321neoLR would probably see United earn more of a return on EWR-BFS, as it would for the majority of ''provincial international'' routes.

IMO, This is the aircraft JetBlue talked about recently. They are the only (and remain, I believe?) US carrier who have stated publicly they are interested in a NYC-ORK route.

owenc

Yea Belfast is ok but its still quite expensive compared with Dublin. This time i'll be using it though as I am so far from Dublin that it is just traumatising to get a flight from there.

But yea I was looking at seat maps and during winter it is ok except for a sunday and a monday where it seems to be really bad. I think the aircraft is perhaps too large, maybe they could keep the 757 in the summer and reduce it to a 737 (lol 737max in future) in the winter.

I think a slightly smaller aircraft could make it year round.

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

......
But yea I was looking at seat maps and during winter it is ok except for a sunday and a monday where it seems to be really bad. I think the aircraft is perhaps too large, maybe they could keep the 757 in the summer and reduce it to a 737 (lol 737max in future) in the winter.

I think a slightly smaller aircraft could make it year round.

Its not as simple as matching capacity to demand.

Smaller aircraft means less higher cost per seat. Thats why the B757 is in a sweet spot for many airlines. It has the range of a widebody without the costs, whereas a B737-90ER may have the range but will have less profit potential. The B757-200 has kept open some long thin routes that are not viable with other aircraft.

man98

Jack1985 wrote: »

IMO, This is the aircraft JetBlue talked about recently. They are the only (and remain, I believe?) US carrier who have stated publicly they are interested in a NYC-ORK route.

Really? I'd definitely use that!

owenc

I am reading airliners.net and suggestions are good. It's fab what United are doing but honestly a route from Cork,Stansted and Bristol Please!!

People need to have a reality check, you cannot sustain a flight to NYC from every UK airport.

Jack1985

man98 wrote: »

Really? I'd definitely use that!

Yep, bearing in mind these articles were published in 2013/2014 - There plans seem to be after 2017. They also made some speculation in the US recently regarding Hawaii (departing the West Coast) and South America, routes of similar length as NYC-ORK. This is why for JetBlue alone, the A321neoLR could be a real cost effective launch-pad to compete with the majors.

http://www.independent.ie/business/world/jetblue-boss-pours-cold-water-on-ryanairs-10-fares-to-us-30108384.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-11/jetblue-chief-seeks-broader-deeper-international-airline-links.html

Preset No.3

They should drop Belfast too. Sure Dublin is only 100 miles down the road.

lord lucan

Preset No.3 wrote: »

They should drop Belfast too. Sure Dublin is only 100 miles down the road.

Careful now,no need to stoop to his level. Can we get this thread back on topic now,it's had enough detours already.

owenc

That was quite a nasty dig for someone who is supposed to be a moderator.

lord lucan

owenc wrote: »

Stoop to my level. What??

That was quite a nasty dig for someone who is supposed to be a moderator.

You constantly drag threads off topic and relate everything to Belfast and United when they've nothing to do with the topic at hand. It gets tiresome and rubs people up the wrong way.

roundymac

owenc wrote: »

I am reading airliners.net and suggestions are good. It's fab what United are doing but honestly a route from Cork,Stansted and Bristol Please!!

People need to have a reality check, you cannot sustain a flight to NYC from every UK airport.

Just for clarification purpose's, Belfast might be in Ireland but Cork most certainly is not in the UK.:mad:

L1011

roundymac wrote: »

Just for clarification purpose's, Belfast might be in Ireland but Cork most certainly is not in the UK.:mad:

Certainly seemed like it when Lizzy II was doing the rounds a few years ago :pac:

roundymac

MYOB wrote: »

Certainly seemed like it when Lizzy II was doing the rounds a few years ago :pac:

She was Irish for a day, hav'nt you ever gone to the UK(belfast) to do your grocery shopping.:D

smurfjed

I don't like Airbus

Why? Do you have a technical reason for not liking them or just a feeling? How many Airbus aircraft have you flown on?

smurfjed

I'm curious about the extra range for the 321NEOLR, the range is coming at the cost of baggage space, with the inclusion of 3 additional fuel tanks, I guessing that they will have to remove 2-3 baggage containers. Will the aircraft therefore have the baggage capacity for 185 (two class standard) people across the atlantic?

I'm even more curious about the "smart lav"... the things are bloody tiny at the moment

BonkeyDonker

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm curious about the extra range for the 321NEOLR, the range is coming at the cost of baggage space, with the inclusion of 3 additional fuel tanks, I guessing that they will have to remove 2-3 baggage containers. Will the aircraft therefore have the baggage capacity for 185 (two class standard) people across the atlantic?

It could be more a case of reducing total usable cargo space, not just baggage space. The A320 is seven meters shorter and hod a similiar amount of pax.

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm even more curious about the "smart lav"... the things are bloody tiny at the moment

"smart lav" = flying commode.

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm curious about the extra range for the 321NEOLR, the range is coming at the cost of baggage space, with the inclusion of 3 additional fuel tanks, I guessing that they will have to remove 2-3 baggage containers. Will the aircraft therefore have the baggage capacity for 185 (two class standard) people across the atlantic?....

BonkeyDonker wrote: »

It could be more a case of reducing total usable cargo space, not just baggage space. The A320 is seven meters shorter and hod a similiar amount of pax......

The Airbus article states that the current A321neo cannot be retrofitted into an LR model. Therefore I suspect that "LR" involves modification of the airframe to build in the extra fuel tanks, perhaps at the expense of cargo hold capacity. Considering that some A321's already carry more than 200 pax (looking at you EI!!) I suspect enough baggage space will remain.

smurfjed

Therefore I suspect that "LR" involves modification of the airframe to build in the extra fuel tanks, perhaps at the expense of cargo hold capacity

We operate some A320's with additional centre tanks (ACT), they are installed in the cargo hold at the expense of cargo capacity. We were offered the same for the A321 but it just didn't make operational sense for the route structure that we were looking at.
The thing to remember with performance figures such as these is that they are based on Sea Level, ISA, no obstacles and sometimes even with no enroute winds, so it will be interesting to see how this performs on routes such as Cork - JFK.

kub

Doesn't direct from Cork to New York sound like a little tune.....a marketing companies dream.