Do you want a receipt?

Billy86

Bio Mech wrote: »

How could you prove you asked or not? Are all till conversations recorded? I doubt it. If they drive away without paying they still owe you for the petrol it doesn't just become a freebie. I would guess its just that they would be less likely to be charged with theft if they entered the shop and paid for items as it demonstrates that either they genuinely forgot or you forgot to charge them.

Its not like its free petrol, mums the word.

Welcome to the joys of a seriously dated and naive legal system, in many regards. Just look at the NCA response I quoted 2 posts up for another example... in that instance how can someone prove they did or did not request a receipt at the time of purchase? Ask any foreign worker in a petrol station, most of them just can't understand it (and for good reason) rather than putting the full onus on the customer who bought the petrol.

KERSPLAT!

Billy86 wrote: »

Nope, this guy never entered the shop.

It has also been mentioned by other people who have worked in petrol stations in other threads here in the past. Do you really think the people working there ask everyone all the time, just for the craic of it all? Shops implement it in their 'scripting' that mystery shoppers etc mark on for a reason.

They ask to make sure you don't forget to pay not to form some kind of verbal contract which if not done means they can drive off with a car load of petrol or diesel

Billy86

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

They ask to make sure you don't forget to pay not to form some kind of verbal contract which if not done means they can drive off with a car load of petrol or diesel

Trust me, from working in a petrol station for a year or so there are people who forget... and more than the fair share of people who "forget". Over and over again. And essentially nothing can be done about it, other than not turning the pump on for them (which can be tough to do in a busy station when you have 6+ pumps forever beeping and a queue of 12+ people than just won't stop).

The best you can do if you have to report these to the Garda over and over is that you did ask then (like you ask then every time) because it is in your scripting, in order to build up a track record of them. That or hope a coworker or regular customer in the shop (likely behind the m in the queue) heard you ask if they got petrol, if you notice just as they drove off right after.

Personally I think a prepay only system would work a lot better for this, you can after call set the amount of petrol the pump will give out when you 'open' it to the customer.

conorh91

Billy86 wrote: »

Because if you did get petrol and they didn't spot it, you can pretty much legally return to your car and drive away without paying if they failed to ask.

This is not true.

Any difficulties in pursuing such a person would be practical in nature, and not legal.

KERSPLAT!

Billy86 wrote: »

Trust me, from working in a petrol station for a year or so there are people who forget... and more than the fair share of people who "forget". Over and over again. And essentially nothing can be done about it, other than not turning the pump on for them (which can be tough to do in a busy station when you have 6+ pumps forever beeping and a queue of 12+ people than just won't stop).

The best you can do if you have to report these to the Garda over and over is that you did ask then (like you ask then every time) because it is in your scripting, in order to build up a track record of them. That or hope a coworker or regular customer in the shop (likely behind the m in the queue) heard you ask if they got petrol, if you notice just as they drove off right after.

Personally I think a prepay only system would work a lot better for this, you can after call set the amount of petrol the pump will give out when you 'open' it to the customer.

OK, show me an official link that says if you don't ask if a customer has taken petrol or diesel, they can drive away for free .

Billy86

conorh91 wrote: »

This is not true.

Any difficulties in pursuing such a person would be practical in nature, and not legal.

And if you get caught, you can simply say you forgot and we're never asked. It happens a lot. The best the shop can do to combat this is make it policy to ask everyone and to enforce said policy as much as possible. I lost count of the number of times I had asked someone if they got petrol, been told no, gone and watched them go to their car that they had just filled, and had to run out to them before they drove away.

Billy86

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

OK, show me an official link that says if you don't ask if a customer has taken petrol or diesel, they can drive away for free .

Looking at conorhs quote of it above, I did word it poorly. What I meant is it is extremely difficult to take action on if the customer, once caught, throws their hands up, says "oh sorry, I forgot and must not have been asked" and pays up at that point. Which is why the staff at these places pretty much ask every single person by default, which at least makes them aware of it and less likely to sell to said customer (at least without prepaying) in future.

Basically if they get away with it, they get free petrol. If they get caught, they just have to pay for the petrol also different than they would have. I never once saw any action taken against any customers who said they had no petrol when they had, and drove off without paying.

its the ones who don't enter the shop at all that are the easy, open and shut ones to do something about.

KERSPLAT!

You said they can pretty much legally drive away if the customer isn't asked if they got petrol

Billy86 wrote: »

Because if you did get petrol and they didn't spot it, you can pretty much legally return to your car and drive away without paying if they failed to ask.

Not at all, careful you don't hit something backtracking so fast!!!

dgt

Hitchens wrote: »

Come across this a lot from shop assistants. I bought €80 of petrol this morning, goes into the shop and pays for it, the assistant rings it up and says "do you want a receipt?"

It's like they're doing you a favour.

Other than that it wasn't a bad morning :-0

I bought a fair sum of petrol thread....?

Every fill of petrol I get averages €90 and I have the receipt for every fill with the trip mileage written down on the back. My glovebox is filling fast

But, sure, have a wee moan on being offered a piece of paper with some toner on it....

conorh91

Billy86 wrote: »

And if you get caught, you can simply say you forgot and we're never asked.

But then there's no defect in our legislation. It depends on whether the Court (or jury, as the case may be) finds the defence reasonable.

That's why I think any barrier to prosecution is practical and not legal.

It would be grossly unfair to tie the hands of the courts and create a strict liability for theft, because honest mistakes do happen. It would also be grossly unfair to reverse the burden of proof, a golden thread that frames all advanced criminal justice systems worldwide.

I'm not sure what the exact situation is in Estonia, where your manager came from, but I don't know of any civilized society whose legal system differs substantially from ours in terms of the above.

The proof of the effectiveness of our Theft law is to be found in every District Court, every court day. The vast majority of theft prosecutions result in convictions.

Hitchens

dgt wrote: »

But, sure, have a wee moan on being offered a piece of paper with some toner on it....

you obviously haven't been paying attention to any posts except the OP

Archeron

AnonoBoy wrote: »

No. It's a brilliant life hack for free petrol so it is.

I just tried it there.

Got 50 euro of diesel, went into the shop and bought a twix and the guy didn't ask me about the fuel. I got outside the door and jumped up and down shouting, "Wahooooo! FREE FUELL!!!"

The guy behind the counter was a bit embarrassed but he gave me that look that said, "Hey buddy, you got me! We both know the law here, you got yourself a free tank of diesel, boy is my face red!"

Good times folks. I encourage everyone to try it today.

I would never ever consider doing this..















Twixes are horrible.

Billy86

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

You said they can pretty much legally drive away if the customer isn't asked if they got petrol



Not at all, careful you don't hit something backtracking so fast!!!

Person gets petrol. Person doesn't mention it. Staff member asks if they did. Customer says no. Customer walks out without paying. Customer either gets away with it, or gets caught. If caught, customer simply pleads ignorance and their full punishment is to pay for the petrol they took, nothing more.

Basically like I said I worded it poorly... what I meant is there is no consequence for doing this. It's not treated with any degree of seriousness, yet they can be a theft of up to, sometimes even over, €100 depending on the size of the car.

For people willing to do that, it might as well be legal for them because all they give a sh*te about what happens if they get caught.

This was all in response to people giving out about why petrol stations always ask if they got petrol. It's pretty obvious why they do.

Billy86

conorh91 wrote: »

But then there's no defect in our legislation. It depends on whether the Court (or jury, as the case may be) finds the defence reasonable.

That's why I think any barrier to prosecution is practical and not legal.

It would be grossly unfair to tie the hands of the courts and create a strict liability for theft, because honest mistakes do happen. It would also be grossly unfair to reverse the burden of proof, a golden thread that frames all advanced criminal justice systems worldwide.

I'm not sure what the exact situation is in Estonia, where your manager came from, but I don't know of any civilized society whose legal system differs substantially from ours in terms of the above.

The proof of the effectiveness of our Theft law is to be found in every District Court, every court day. The vast majority of theft prosecutions result in convictions.

That's true as well, the odd time someone would come back out of the blue all embarrassed after realising they forgot to pay. But I've never heard of a drive off where the customer entered the shop go any further than them having to come back and pay for it. Like I said, they should just do prepay only... but I get the feeling people complaining about if they got asked about petrol would be among the first to complain about this too.

Lyger

Hitchens wrote: »

Come across this a lot from shop assistants. I bought €80 of petrol this morning, goes into the shop and pays for it, the assistant rings it up and says "do you want a receipt?"

It's like they're doing you a favour.

That.... is the most horrific thing I've ever heard of. hope ur ok xxxxxx

my teapot is orange

They ask because some people want receipts and some people don't.

I myself want them when it's something I can claim expenses for. I don't want any extra paper mounting up in my handbag if it isn't. My card statement will suffice as proof if there's an issue.

Hitchens

my teapot is orange wrote: »

They ask because some people want receipts and some people don't.

I myself want them when it's something I can claim expenses for. I don't want any extra paper mounting up in my handbag if it isn't. My card statement will suffice as proof if there's an issue.

if you buy an item on eBay to use an example, do they ask you if you want a receipt? No, they send an email acknowledging your purchase immediately, even though all those electronic messages are destroying the planet and clogging up your inbox

my teapot is orange

Hitchens wrote: »

if you buy an item on eBay to use an example, do they ask you if you want a receipt? No, they send an email acknowledging your purchase immediately, even though all those electronic messages are destroying the planet and clogging up your inbox

That's because they'd have to email you anyway to ask you if you wanted one anyway.

SparkySpitfire

Hitchens wrote: »

if you buy an item on eBay to use an example, do they ask you if you want a receipt? No, they send an email acknowledging your purchase immediately, even though all those electronic messages are destroying the planet and clogging up your inbox

Indeed :rolleyes:

hardCopy

I almost never want a receipt

I also hate carrying cash

The worst thing about the new contactless debit cards is that all the shops are back to giving out receipts by default, such a complete waste

Tarzana

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Dunno how many useless pieces of paper I have stuffed in my wallet when I was automatically handed back a receipt. Always nice to be asked.

Yeah. I hate getting given receipts in the pub.

Tarzana

Tzardine wrote: »

This whole petrol station things does my head in. Conversation usually goes like this.

Me: Just these please (Place bread and milk on counter)
Assistant : Do you have any petrol or diesel.
Me : dafuq. /facepalm

Not as annoying as the petrol stations that have that automated thing at the till that shouts at you. HAVE YOU GOT ANY PETROL OR DIESEL.

Bloody staff look mortified each time it roars out.

Sunhill wrote: »

This ' Did you take any petrol or diesel?' question annoys me too.
Watch the reaction when you answer 'Not at your prices!'

Greenmachine wrote: »

That is total irrelevant. They are obliged to provide the receipt. If the customer doesn't want it they can throw in the bin. Sick of having to ask for a receipt when i buy something, because the clerk can't be arsed.

Wow, some people really look hard for things to get annoyed about! What a way to live.

Holsten

Yes I do want a receipt thanks very much!

Lyger

Tarzana wrote: »

Wow, some people really look hard for things to get annoyed about! What a way to live.

They're the type of customers who ruin your day if you've ever been in a customer-facing role.
Most customers are grand, lots of people who work in customer service really like it and want to help the customer out as best they can... but the downside is... those kinds of people.

Tarzana

Hitchens wrote: »

you obviously haven't been paying attention to any posts except the OP

This has come up a fair bit in the thread. Maybe you should have worded your original post less ambiguously.

Tarzana

Hitchens wrote: »

if you buy an item on eBay to use an example, do they ask you if you want a receipt? No, they send an email acknowledging your purchase immediately, even though all those electronic messages are destroying the planet and clogging up your inbox

The email receipt is a paperless one. Very environmentally friendly. :cool:

Tarzana

Lyger wrote: »

They're the type of customers who ruin your day if you've ever been in a customer-facing role.
Most customers are grand, lots of people who work in customer service really like it and want to help the customer out as best they can... but the downside is... those kinds of people.

From my days in retail, I agree, most people are sound. But the bad ones linger in the memory like a sticky fart.

Tarzana

Lyger wrote: »

They're the type of customers who ruin your day if you've ever been in a customer-facing role.

One good tip I was given back in the day was "Don't let someone transfer their bad mood to you". Simple, yet effective! Helped me take things a lot less personally.

fasttalkerchat

Dr. Zaius Dr. Zaius! wrote: »

Not everyone is as honest as you!

First time I heard it I was buying a breakfast roll and she offered me a deal to include a coffee for €1. Then "Any petrol or diesel". I gave her a confused look and said "No thanks."

It wasn't until I got back to the car that I realised she wasn't trying to sell some fuel.

Egginacup

I was in a butcher shop in The Liberties stocking up on rashers, chops and various other dinner items. A fella beside me was paying for a chicken. He asked for a receipt. The "head" behind the counter said in a flat Dub accent:

"Whoy? Are ya gonna bring it back if it's broken?"

:pac: