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Cork GAA Discussion Thread
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Look I respect your opinion you're entitled to itDick phelan wrote: »Glad to see people still treating Waterford like a nothing team, Write us off at your peril, look at the quality in our team on our day we can beat anyone we aren't favorites for Munter or the AI but if you think we have no chance at either your being naive, People are talking about the system but look at some of the individual quality in the team, Austin Gleeson and Kevin Moran's points had nothing to do with a system they were sheer quality points, Waterford are in a far better place then Cork at the moment, if Cork want to delude themselves with some theory that they lost on purpose they can but the harsh truth is nobody goes out with the intention of loosing a final, Cork were beaten in every area of the field by a team still in development, If i was a cork supporter i'd be very worried they don't seem to have enough quality in the team to win an AI IMO.
No I'm not deluded imo
However I don't really hold much weight of value to it or others like yourself that never posted much on waterford hurling bar now soon as they win tell all the rest were naive
I hope you understand where I'm coming from
That's the reason I didn't reply to your ist post but seen as you twice quotes me I'll give you one reply but I'll be honest nothing more nothing less I don't have any real interest debating points with fans that could just as easily be gone as fast as they come in when a team looses
If you stick around when waterford loose then very good as imo that's real support
I see you posted before wexford last year but soon as we're beaten that was that and rarely posted during the league or prior to the final and barely posted much before now if at all
I'm not saying you have to choose when and how many times to post but imo I find it hard to actually take any value over someone posts in the glory so Id rather debate lads I know least when loose will still be there
I hope your new found optimistic views towards waterford hurling will stay true in defeats as they do in victory as while I disagree with some view I will say waterford have a lot real hard core fans been supported team right through the last few years and to them regular posters I'll have no problem congratulations them and eating humble pie should waterford beat cork in June
And id have huge respect for hard core fans post long before today and when they loose will be there
I do hope you do the same when this team loose as have no doubt it will happen this year
Your point cork didn't try anything to change should surely copper fasten my beliefs if wanted to win don't you at least think would changed the style in the second half No change of style in cork going win it's direct as weren't going to do it another way this game
Cork camoige lost to Galway but dunlea so good coach didn't really go old style cork in played with sweeper I'm told today
See he saw the opportunity to try something different
Cork yesterday saw lehane at full who never going work but tried as no need to show or revel all in way they will play in championship
As a cork fan I'm happy cork didn't revel all as win in June where we are at is three games to the big prize
Nothing was gained yesterday
The perception you have is waterford system is invented by them no it's not
Clare play that system and way better but actually have a plan b and clare and kk would beat Waterford imo and I don't think tipp fear waterford either
Cork have beaten clare system and even against Dublin so there used to the sweeper more so than years ago
You would swear waterford invented this the way the talk is
No they didn't
Waterford played this way under Davy did they or did they not five years ago
Jbm has he tactical issues but one thing when he's been compared to senior football by cork fans it must be remembered he has a level of success and rebuild the team to at least a level and in fairness so honesty and humble he'll walk if he has any thought he holding back the team
He nearly did in 99 after a challenge v tipperary only for landers and others persuaded him to stay
He didn't want to go for a new term but was begged to stay and players wanted him also and he did
Now the football manager on the other hand thinks he is in he's words last may not being smart but he thinks he's wille wonka who landed the golden ticket to the chocolate factory and has never once accepted any responsibility for defeat or won't apologies cork fans nearest he came was saying we all made mistakes where he's never said management at fault like Paul Grimley armagh manager or gavin or jbm all done in their time and have proven records where this manager talks the blanket, philosophy of football the process , this will be solved but never is, but imo he's talk is cheap as he inherited unlike jbm team with senior all Ireland and under twenty one winners yet going backwards at a rate of knots where for all jbm faults this teams has no under age success and at less overall achieved an with Nash Murphy Spillane imo winning all Irelands intermediate among few others no all Ireland winners at all at other level bar Nash sub minor fourteen years ago
Cuthbert will seek a new term have no doubt as he sees himself as cork football chosen one
People that critse football are right in their are loads of better managers crying out for the job, English, clearly, gene driscoll and even if they didn't want it while lot to prove ephie Fitzgerald would take it and better than any of the current set up on records alone
Also cuthbert always preaches after defeats midfield and defence will be solved but never is and he uses fancy words root and branch review to papers over cracks and imo such talking is total bull####of the highest degree
A root and branch review,were laughed at, seven weeks for such a review that's imo will still leave us without a foootball coach and likely start around twelve team v mayo last year plus no change in system but it will be glossed off as an off day and Dublin being very good when cork no excuse not be competing
Wait for it wait for it cork will beat Dublin Sunday in the challenge in mid cork and in ptich close to home gould will be fine, driscoll will be fine in a game where no blanket and Alan o Connor likely start and look good
Wait wait for the interview after imo another false false dawn but we'll be told this and that and the appetite is back, lessons learned, cork made huge progress the league, but have no doubt just like all league a few cork fans will belive it
Talking to a Dublin contact today and he told me Dublin have no real interest Sunday and will try new lads and are fulfilling the fixture and that cork will probably win
I won't be fooled that Sunday is a step on the road to redemption in the slightest
This will be less intense than a mcgrath cup game imo
Hurling we have no options in a ready made appointment as o grady is not going to go back, cunningham is gone, so their is not much available and I said it then and say it now thank god jbm took up the new term as if he didn't get it and the man tipped to manage cork cork were absolutely imo in dire dire straights and have no doubt if that manager got job who wanted it one key player in cork imo would went travelling as no faith in him as a manager
You see when I critse cuthbert I know cork have better available
When I am critical of midfield cork imo have better
In hurling full back who have cork better??!!! if cahalane is injured
People critse Ryan fair enough but who is better
You can't critse if you don't offer a solution
So again who is cork full back??
we know it's definitely on number of g ames not Mcdonnell or o Neill so again who is better than aidan Ryan or cahalane??????
If there critsed offer a better soultion imo0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Look I respect your opinion you're entitled to it
No I'm not deluded imo
However I don't really hold much weight of value to it or others like yourself that never posted much on waterford hurling bar now soon as they win tell all the rest were naive
I hope you understand where I'm coming from
That's the reason I didn't reply to your ist post but seen as you twice quotes me I'll give you one reply but I'll be honest nothing more nothing less I don't have any real interest debating points with fans that could just as easily be gone as fast as they come in when a team looses
If you stick around when waterford loose then very good as imo that's real support
I see you posted before wexford last year but soon as we're beaten that was that and rarely posted during the league or prior to the final and barely posted much before now if at all
I'm not saying you have to choose when and how many times to post but imo I find it hard to actually take any value over someone posts in the glory so Id rather debate lads I know least when loose will still be there
I hope your new found optimistic views towards waterford hurling will stay true in defeats as they do in victory as while I disagree with some view I will say waterford have a lot real hard core fans been supported team right through the last few years and to them regular posters I'll have no problem congratulations them and eating humble pie should waterford beat cork in June
And id have huge respect for hard core fans post long before today and when they loose will be there
I do hope you do the same when this team loose as have no doubt it will happen this year
Your point cork didn't try anything to change should surely copper fasten my beliefs if wanted to win don't you at least think would changed the style in the second half No change of style in cork going win it's direct as weren't going to do it another way this game
Cork camoige lost to Galway but dunlea so good coach didn't really go old style cork in played with sweeper I'm told today
See he saw the opportunity to try something different
Cork yesterday saw lehane at full who never going work but tried as no need to show or revel all in way they will play in championship
As a cork fan I'm happy cork didn't revel all as win in June where we are at is three games to the big prize
Nothing was gained yesterday
The perception you have is waterford system is invented by them no it's not
Clare play that system and way better but actually have a plan b and clare and kk would beat Waterford imo and I don't think tipp fear waterford either
Cork have beaten clare system and even against Dublin so there used to the sweeper more so than years ago
You would swear waterford invented this the way the talk is
No they didn't
Waterford played this way under Davy did they or did they not five years ago
Jbm has he tactical issues but one thing when he's been compared to senior football by cork fans it must be remembered he has a level of success and rebuild the team to at least a level and in fairness so honesty and humble he'll walk if he has any thought he holding back the team
He nearly did in 99 after a challenge v tipperary only for landers and others persuaded him to stay
He didn't want to go for a new term but was begged to stay and players wanted him also and he did
Now the football manager on the other hand thinks he is in he's words last may not being smart but he thinks he's wille wonka who landed the golden ticket to the chocolate factory and has never once accepted any responsibility for defeat or won't apologies cork fans nearest he came was saying we all made mistakes where he's never said management at fault like Paul Grimley armagh manager or gavin or jbm all done in their time and have proven records where this manager talks the blanket, philosophy of football the process , this will be solved but never is, but imo he's talk is cheap as he inherited unlike jbm team with senior all Ireland and under twenty one winners yet going backwards at a rate of knots where for all jbm faults this teams has no under age success and at less overall achieved an with Nash Murphy Spillane imo winning all Irelands intermediate among few others no all Ireland winners at all at other level bar Nash sub minor fourteen years ago
Cuthbert will seek a new term have no doubt as he sees himself as cork football chosen one
People that critse football are right in their are loads of better managers crying out for the job, English, clearly, gene driscoll and even if they didn't want it while lot to prove ephie Fitzgerald would take it and better than any of the current set up on records alone
Also cuthbert always preaches after defeats midfield and defence will be solved but never is and he uses fancy words root and branch review to papers over cracks and imo such talking is total bull####of the highest degree
A root and branch review,were laughed at, seven weeks for such a review that's imo will still leave us without a foootball coach and likely start around twelve team v mayo last year plus no change in system but it will be glossed off as an off day and Dublin being very good when cork no excuse not be competing
Wait for it wait for it cork will beat Dublin Sunday in the challenge in mid cork and in ptich close to home gould will be fine, driscoll will be fine in a game where no blanket and Alan o Connor likely start and look good
Wait wait for the interview after imo another false false dawn but we'll be told this and that and the appetite is back, lessons learned, cork made huge progress the league, but have no doubt just like all league a few cork fans will belive it
Talking to a Dublin contact today and he told me Dublin have no real interest Sunday and will try new lads and are fulfilling the fixture and that cork will probably win
I won't be fooled that Sunday is a step on the road to redemption in the slightest
This will be less intense than a mcgrath cup game imo
Hurling we have no options in a ready made appointment as o grady is not going to go back, cunningham is gone, so their is not much available and I said it then and say it now thank god jbm took up the new term as if he didn't get it and the man tipped to manage cork cork were absolutely imo in dire dire straights and have no doubt if that manager got job who wanted it one key player in cork imo would went travelling as no faith in him as a manager
You see when I critse cuthbert I know cork have better available
When I am critical of midfield cork imo have better
In hurling full back who have cork better??!!! if cahalane is injured
People critse Ryan fair enough but who is better
You can't critse if you don't offer a solution
So again who is cork full back??
we know it's definitely on number of g ames not Mcdonnell or o Neill so again who is better than aidan Ryan or cahalane??????
If there critsed offer a better soultion imo
You talk some shyte Imo0 -
TTM i admire your optimistic views about the hurlers yesterday i wish i felt the same way ! we have been giving out like hell about the football management the losses to Kerry last year and last sunday against Dublin were hammerings ...the hurlers were also hammered by Tipp last year and again yesterday against Waterford . Cork teams at any level should not be beaten by any teams by double digit scores ...my point is both teams deserve to be slated the same equal for those heavy defeats ....on saying all that i take on board what you said about both managers there is a difference there for sure.i also find it hard to believe that the hurlers were not up for winning a Leauge title yesterday ...these players like Hoggy have said that they dont have many medals in there pockets ...0
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The thing is while I am gonna say right now June is 50/50 I don't understand the absolute confidence thing, or "We'll beat Waterford but we should be thinking about all-irelands" mantra going around.
Obviously Cork did something right to get to the final, they hammered Clare and Dublin (I saw that game now and it was desperate, never seen a game so devoid of intensity), and got over the line against Galway in Salthill. I appreciate teams often perform better in the summer than in the spring, but those results aside we're saying they lacked intensity against Kilkenny, the Tipp game at the end was a dead rubber so despite letting a 12 point lead slip I wouldn't be too worried about that either way. Doesn't sound like they came out in the first half against Wexford. They definitely didn't against Dublin, and appalling lack of intensity really and they were blessed to win. Alright, they came back and won but if you're criticizing Waterford last year what exactly did Dublin do last year to justify that game as a big win? Would you not be asking how did we find ourselves 10 points down and looking dead buried for a lot of the game?
Then you've yesterdays no show and I kind of feel that this is more the rule than the exception (particularly coming from the semi final beating last year). Intensity isn't something you just switch on. If you're at you optimum fitness levels alright that makes it easier, and maybe Cork aren't there yet. But all the same I'm not sure I'm a big believer in you can't perform at a high level at the start of the year and sustain it. Some people would argue Kilkenny could because the Leinster championship was soft but in all fairness they went out and hammered everyone in that championship in their peak years. They were operating at the same level through out the year.
Now TTM, I keep seeing you compare Cork to KK in the sense that that's the level they need to get to, that they are the standard bearers and you are right. But they are going about it in quite an unusual fashion if that is their aim. As I said before, Cork obviously have as much chance as ourselves the next day but there's plenty needs addressing the meantime I think.
I don't really believe in not beating a team twice in the league and championship. We did it 4 times in 2007 and twice in 2004 and I have no doubt ye did it a couple of times to us as well, probably 2005 being one. There might be a proximity to the games but I don't really believe in not showing the hand. You also said you hoped Waterford would go orthodox yesterday (I assume to test Aidan Ryan). But say we had done that, and lost, would you have a view that Waterford were shadow boxing and holding back for June? What would you think if we were making those claims?
The average age of the Waterford was 24 by my reckoning and that is giving every player the age they will be at the end of the year. But I'm pretty sure Barron and Bennett are October and Pauric Mahony is November (so they will be 21, 19 and 22 respectively for the championship). Point I'm making there is while some have said they won't improve that they've peaked now, they are very young and I feel like every game will bring them on. As long as they don't lose focus and keep the same drive (which is the big test) I am happy they'll be competitive in any game they play this year. How far that will take them only time will tell.0 -
Valid points but it's not that I'm optimistic regards all Ireland as I said since day one issues but this is waterford to be fair hardly the KK tipperary even clare this world based on whatCORKDOUBLE wrote: »TTM i admire your optimistic views about the hurlers yesterday i wish i felt the same way ! we have been giving out like hell about the football management the losses to Kerry last year and last sunday against Dublin were hammerings ...the hurlers were also hammered by Tipp last year and again yesterday against Waterford . Cork teams at any level should not be beaten by any teams by double digit scores ...my point is both teams deserve to be slated the same equal for those heavy defeats ....on saying all that i take on board what you said about both managers there is a difference there for sure.i also find it hard to believe that the hurlers were not up for winning a Leauge title yesterday ...these players like Hoggy have said that they dont have many medals in there pockets ...
It's judging this game on its merits
No they don't as its apple organes situation
Cork weren't playing Dublin again and on opposite sides draw possible and after dismal league let's be honest lot false dawns Dublin kerry and donegal cork were never that good
Hurling was poorly v KK but they never died either
Dublin wanted win cork one twice
Clare who didn't treat cork game as games to win cork won and even wexford wanted to win
These point of and I asked this before but for no answer can anyone's please tell me on improvement cork football made under cuthbert
Just one
Yes new players were brought in but even awful managers do that what's more reflection imo is the lack of development with them
Hurling has made considered real progress since jbm took over imo and the fact cuthbert has around panel seven senior all Ireland winners with core under there one
In all championship games jbm has had only one game cork died away v tipp where's he made them fight to the end even fourteen men v limerick in scorching heat
Cuthbert teams have consistently lacked direction and go from all out attack to defence with no success at least cork can attack under jbm and defence even with out full back put up resistance
Also Ellis who I didn't even rate at the stars has improved under jbm , harnedy, horgan improved he's game so too did Mcdonnell and yesterday it was late but cooper where's imo can any player football or never said improved under cork management0 -
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The Dublin game cork to be fair cork had Ellis and Murphy out so it was new unit of Mcdonnell and lorcan and Walsh so nothing do with lack intensity but all cork team bar full was moved around over the injuryMountainlad wrote: »The thing is while I am gonna say right now June is 50/50 I don't understand the absolute confidence thing, or "We'll beat Waterford but we should be thinking about all-irelands" mantra going around.
Obviously Cork did something right to get to the final, they hammered Clare and Dublin (I saw that game now and it was desperate, never seen a game so devoid of intensity), and got over the line against Galway in Salthill. I appreciate teams often perform better in the summer than in the spring, but those results aside we're saying they lacked intensity against Kilkenny, the Tipp game at the end was a dead rubber so despite letting a 12 point lead slip I wouldn't be too worried about that either way. Doesn't sound like they came out in the first half against Wexford. They definitely didn't against Dublin, and appalling lack of intensity really and they were blessed to win. Alright, they came back and won but if you're criticizing Waterford last year what exactly did Dublin do last year to justify that game as a big win? Would you not be asking how did we find ourselves 10 points down and looking dead buried for a lot of the game?
Then you've yesterdays no show and I kind of feel that this is more the rule than the exception (particularly coming from the semi final beating last year). Intensity isn't something you just switch on. If you're at you optimum fitness levels alright that makes it easier, and maybe Cork aren't there yet. But all the same I'm not sure I'm a big believer in you can't perform at a high level at the start of the year and sustain it. Some people would argue Kilkenny could because the Leinster championship was soft but in all fairness they went out and hammered everyone in that championship in their peak years. They were operating at the same level through out the year.
Now TTM, I keep seeing you compare Cork to KK in the sense that that's the level they need to get to, that they are the standard bearers and you are right. But they are going about it in quite an unusual fashion if that is their aim. As I said before, Cork obviously have as much chance as ourselves the next day but there's plenty needs addressing the meantime I think.
I don't really believe in not beating a team twice in the league and championship. We did it 4 times in 2007 and twice in 2004 and I have no doubt ye did it a couple of times to us as well, probably 2005 being one. There might be a proximity to the games but I don't really believe in not showing the hand. You also said you hoped Waterford would go orthodox yesterday (I assume to test Aidan Ryan). But say we had done that, and lost, would you have a view that Waterford were shadow boxing and holding back for June? What would you think if we were making those claims?
The average age of the Waterford was 24 by my reckoning and that is giving every player the age they will be at the end of the year. But I'm pretty sure Barron and Bennett are October and Pauric Mahony is November (so they will be 21, 19 and 22 respectively for the championship). Point I'm making there is while some have said they won't improve that they've peaked now, they are very young and I feel like every game will bring them on. As long as they don't lose focus and keep the same drive (which is the big test) I am happy they'll be competitive in any game they play this year. How far that will take them only time will tell.
Nothing to do with intensity
As for beating teams championship league yes it happened but as you said two close games proximity wise always going be holding back
Cork team ten year's ago miles better than now and had proven winners and games were not that close together either
If waterford played orthodox course I'd say held back but they didn't and it's clear as day cork know how waterford will set up
Yes ye have strong players on the bench but they can't improve the team in won't start with current system same lads will start and even if did won't add much in its the system cork have to break down and if cork get a lead huge problems for waterford in mcgrath has to change and attack but winning the league could imo results in blind faith to the system when unlike clare who adapted waterford imo are purely defensive
You have some valid points there though0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Ist game full back how many goals did he conceded none
How many goal chances none
He was always going give up few points but no goals was the objective
Only second game no training league was fine
It's been said numerous times here Spillane is just back from injury but remains be seen if can stay free
For all the talk Ryan is not the answer who is the best option if cahalane is injured!?!!?
ryan doesn't play FB for his club & you said it yourself no training in the league 2 games under his belt & conceded 3 goals. as i said before he made shanahan look good. You still think his the answer. McDonnell would be better than him. I'd have Burke before Ryan but going into championship still debating our starting XV is ridiculous. whatever about keeping our powder dry we must know how to use it or it will blow up in our faces0 -
ryan doesn't play FB for his club & you said it yourself no training in the league 2 games under his belt & conceded 3 goals. as i said before he made shanahan look good. You still think his the answer. McDonnell would be better than him. I'd have Burke before Ryan but going into championship still debating our starting XV is ridiculous. whatever about keeping our powder dry we must know how to use it or it will blow up in our faces
Your right with some points but is Ryan the answer
We still need to know but two games and was good yesterday we have hope
What we do know in the league final three years ago tipp in munster Dublin two years ago Galway in the league then I can list every game Mcdonnell player full and he's not the answer
So do I persists with Ryan yes as he may not be the answer but he's better than o Neill and Mcdonnell
To solve the problem we don't go back in time to try player we know can't do it and considering we have no cover in corner we play Mcdonnell again there we could actually destroy he's confidence when last year he was brilliant
Burke is not a full back either at club but corner and even centre back for midelton was poor in he's fast hands pacey and great touch but has no presence under the high ball and is corner back or midfielder only
If Burke was a full back surely Wallis would played him there but no kilkenny great club man peter dowling is there at full as he's a good reader of the game and Ryan now centre as Wallis knows Ryan has the presence there and only reason he's not swapping with dowling is imo even though Ryan lacks raw speed better than dowling speed wise as Dowling lacks the pace now
So to answer the question the options you gave don't prove Burke or Mcdonnell can do better but in two games one at full v KK and Waterford Ryan done enough to warrant another chance imo0 -
http://www.the42.ie/daithi-regan-cork-progress-dublin-challenge-strongly-and-offaly-disappoint-964617-Jun2013/
Just one example to refresh the memory of Mcdonnell at full back
Honan destroyed him so much cork had put sweeper back
Imagine dowling or Callanan on Mcdonnell or Mcdonald or guiney wexford who actually destroyed Mcdonnell last year league got goal off him will absolutely clean up high ball under Mcdonnell
It's not fair to put Mcdonnell back their when he's been tried too many times
He doesn't stand tall as you look Dublin goal two years ago he was directly at fault for it and allowed he's man through
Ryan won't do that he actually be fair forces he man to go around and always stands tall and goal side
He held shanahan well and no clean goal chances given and even the independent said today he had a good game
Giving away three or four points I'm fine once no avalanche goals go in
And yesterday to be fair he didn't even give away one goal chances
He done very well in he's second game their0 -
if Ryan is the only answer iyo what was JBM doing by taking him off if he needs to get accustomed to playing FB playing with new team mates. that will have done his confidence no good in a match that we were too bothered in winning. to me it seemed like bad management. surely if he was the right man for june our wise men on the sideline would have left him on. I thought he did ok in Kk match; kept his shape well didn't get dragged around like Calahan in a few games. I was delighted JBM gave him his start but I haven't your optimism that his confidence has been dented by JBM follythinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Your right with some points but is Ryan the answer
We still need to know but two games and was good yesterday we have hope
What we do know in the league final three years ago tipp in munster Dublin two years ago Galway in the league then I can list every game Mcdonnell player full and he's not the answer
So do I persists with Ryan yes as he may not be the answer but he's better than o Neill and Mcdonnell
To solve the problem we don't go back in time to try player we know can't do it and considering we have no cover in corner we play Mcdonnell again there we could actually destroy he's confidence when last year he was brilliant
Burke is not a full back either at club but corner and even centre back for midelton was poor in he's fast hands pacey and great touch but has no presence under the high ball and is corner back or midfielder only
If Burke was a full back surely Wallis would played him there but no kilkenny great club man peter dowling is there at full as he's a good reader of the game and Ryan now centre as Wallis knows Ryan has the presence there and only reason he's not swapping with dowling is imo even though Ryan lacks raw speed better than dowling speed wise as Dowling lacks the pace now
So to answer the question the options you gave don't prove Burke or Mcdonnell can do better but in two games one at full v KK and Waterford Ryan done enough to warrant another chance imo0 -
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Up to a month ago Waterford hurling was in the horrors, we had no idea where we were going into the Galway game and with most of our games coming against weaker opposition I have to say that I expected that beating to come against Wexford, Galway, Tipp then Cork yesterday, thankfully I was proved wrong and I must admit I am not a fan of the 'system' and the first time we lose I will probably turn against it.
With that background I just cannot understand why a Cork team would not go out in a final to put a marker down, since when is losing to Waterford by 10 points seen as a smart move by Cork?
Waterford will go out in June with the same system, why would Cork not do the same and try to win yesterday? Why would they not back themselves to win both especially when a trophy was Being handed out yesterday - let's face it until they do something in championship Waterford will still be ranked 5 from 5 in Munster.
A team that doesn't worry about losing are destined to be losers, I don't accept that JBM who is a class act from head to toe would oversee something like that.
Especially when the next match is in the Munster championship which lets face it, just like the league, doesn't really hold much sway anymore. (Kilkenny winning so many All-Ireland's and totally dominating has totally devalued everything else!)
Waterford never get fair credit, nor do we need it, but to suggest that yesterday was a trap set for upcoming June success is ridiculous in my mind, uppity naive Waterford being sucked in and blowing their heads up, it's actually disrespectful.
If Cork are to win in June, it will because they are a better team on the day, if they win it will be against a Waterford team that are a very hard working young team, with level headed players and no egos who fight for every ball and who hopefully do so even if they are 20 points down or 20 points up (as should any man walking out onto a field holding a Hurley)
I like many Waterford fans will be as confident in June as I was against Wexford, Galway, Tipp and Cork in the league, I can't see us coming out top of the pile in Munster, we are the fittest team in the country in May but others will catch up.
I have watched the game again and the contrast between Waterfords desire and corks when it came to tackling and chasing men down was apparent... You can be garunteed that will not be the case in June. just my two cents but of course I never believe a team goes out to lose.0 -
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/i-was-in-two-minds-whether-or-not-to-stay-on-after-tipp-defeat-jimmy-barrymurphy-31189293.html
The honesty and humble nature within is and yes jbm has he's faults but for people which they done compare him to cuthbert is imo way off
When cuthbert ever gives interview like this then I'll say he may change
Jbm I said it after tipp last year totally to blame
He accepted it even himself this interview now while accept made mistakes I agree no good unless you try solving them at least he said I'm to blame and he really considered leaving and as I said not just the board but the players begged him to stay
A geuine questions
How many cork football I wonder would beg current management to stay on
Flangan imo would be welcomed
He made a crucial wonderful point regards when your manager for period time you think you're the only one do the job and you must look at are you best man for it
That question can be asked of Galway and I said last year daly who good with Dublin out grew the team
Counihan made this mistake cork senior football team
Cuthbert imo because he fails to actually realise he makes mistakes imo won't questions himself at the end of the two year term but have no doubt seek a second one as he was with minors senior undrr counihan and now senior team he here for the long haul0 -
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Haven't read through the thread, but anyone saying that Cork were keeping the "powder dry" for championship is rubbish given the reaction in the semi final. McGrath got his match -ups right, JBM didn't. Players want to go out and win silverware, not to be looking further down the line to championship to a maybe match. Waterford were much more on the ball, working harder for each other. You have to admire McGrath for the flack he has taken, and how he has transformed Waterford.
Throwing Ryan into the full back line was a brave move, but why take him off if he is being seriously looked at for full back - why wasn't he brought in throughout the league? No matter what anyone says, you can guarantee that the Cork lads were hurt by their lack of performance. League medals are a rarity around Cork, they would have wanted to win0 -
It'd not a case of over see in its as you said at the end waterford tackling and work rate etc was hugely better than cork and imo drive will to win was greater than cork but in June cork will have savage intensity and cork didn't show any deviation from the game plan and even jbm interview Saturday he said while not fan new type game he certainly came around to it so imo it's naive to think he didn't change it yesterday with out imo holding back in some wayTyrionPower wrote: »Up to a month ago Waterford hurling was in the horrors, we had no idea where we were going into the Galway game and with most of our games coming against weaker opposition I have to say that I expected that beating to come against Wexford, Galway, Tipp then Cork yesterday, thankfully I was proved wrong and I must admit I am not a fan of the 'system' and the first time we lose I will probably turn against it.
With that background I just cannot understand why a Cork team would not go out in a final to put a marker down, since when is losing to Waterford by 10 points seen as a smart move by Cork?
Waterford will go out in June with the same system, why would Cork not do the same and try to win yesterday? Why would they not back themselves to win both especially when a trophy was Being handed out yesterday - let's face it until they do something in championship Waterford will still be ranked 5 from 5 in Munster.
A team that doesn't worry about losing are destined to be losers, I don't accept that JBM who is a class act from head to toe would oversee something like that.
Especially when the next match is in the Munster championship which lets face it, just like the league, doesn't really hold much sway anymore. (Kilkenny winning so many All-Ireland's and totally dominating has totally devalued everything else!)
Waterford never get fair credit, nor do we need it, but to suggest that yesterday was a trap set for upcoming June success is ridiculous in my mind, uppity naive Waterford being sucked in and blowing their heads up, it's actually disrespectful.
If Cork are to win in June, it will because they are a better team on the day, if they win it will be against a Waterford team that are a very hard working young team, with level headed players and no egos who fight for every ball and who hopefully do so even if they are 20 points down or 20 points up (as should any man walking out onto a field holding a Hurley)
I like many Waterford fans will be as confident in June as I was against Wexford, Galway, Tipp and Cork in the league, I can't see us coming out top of the pile in Munster, we are the fittest team in the country in May but others will catch up.
I have watched the game again and the contrast between Waterfords desire and corks when it came to tackling and chasing men down was apparent... You can be garunteed that will not be the case in June. just my two cents but of course I never believe a team goes out to lose.
Totally agree waterford one hundred per cent the better team on the day but June days and may day imo be world's apart in the cork performance
Waterford lived on the edge yesterday and I have no problem with that you got to do it but cork never reacted so in June cork will react have no doubt
Some valid points I do agree with you that you make0 -
What in the hell are you trying to say?
Are you drunk, stoned, or is auto-correct on or something, I can't make head nor tail of it. You're normally a very decent poster to read.
The point was Cork thought theyd be playing Tipp so wanted to get to the league final. They played before Waterford so didn't know theyd meet them.
And the reason JBM was delighted was the comeback despite a makeshift half backline, and also the fact he doesn't like Ger Cunningham.
I don't agree with anything except maybe the last part of it to some extent.0 -
Ryan should of got game time in the league but Joyce injury was in the Dublin game and cahalane they tried to get him fit but unfortunately it went against him
Ryan was only moved from half forward to centre back for midelton in the league club games and on that he was called up when last year I think he got a waterford crystal cameo as a half forward and never seen by this management as a back
I think cork made the correct call taking him off yesterday for two reasons
Ist of all he done all that was asked of him in no clean goal chances or goals he conceded and as the game went on there was the way it had become flat always a chance waterford could bang in late goals as it proved with one at the end so imo they saw what they needed and saved him having any dent of confidence by late goals
He held shanahan well and yes he has bigger tests but he done all that was asked of yesterday and in Thurles in June I'd have no fear of him if he has to start
Also cahalane needed game time also
Ryan had a fine game v KK and most I think would say he done well in that challenge and any of the three goals conceded he imo was not to blame at all but that game he had two corner backs, one lad a fine player just out of minor that were no way cork best corner backs so without real protection he done well and under any high ball he was fine
This management I'd blame the last three years for full back but Joyce and Spillane injured and cahalane struggling I don't think their at fault this year
They have absolutely no other choice
Ellis goes back they have solved one problem to create another
At least if Ryan fails he just fails in if Mcdonnell or Burke or o Neill who are corner backs by trade start at full and get destroyed cork imo are not just loosing at full but they are actually destroying confidence three outstanding corner backs
Ryan has been captain of he's club and showed plenty of leadership for them where o Neill and Mcdonnell and Burke all great hurlers lack the presence to be a full back imo
It's interesting to note when cork played ballyhale shamrock in a challenge Joyce was full back so it shows with Ryan starting against KK that there willing to test these options for full back against great teams unlike last year
Ballyhale are a brilliant club side and gave cork a real test in that winter challenge0 -
I do see your train of thought but if you're right there's a lot of questions.
Is this JBM's way of saying that Cork can't beat Warerford twice in a row?
I personally wouldn't be happy if Cork were willing to give up a league title to gain some sort of tactical edge for a Munster championship game. I think it sends a bad message to the players as well as making a joke of the 18,000 people who paid in to watch.
Why bother playing the likes of Murphy and Cadogan who were big injury risks?
Why not see what the likes of Anthony Spillane or Killian Burke can do instead?
Would agree totally I understand ttm mind games theory and hope he is correct but I do not agree with the way the cork public have been treated if this is the case that we were not bothered in winning or did not want to show our full hand.
As I said yesterday if this was the case why not play Burke, play Lawton full game play the bench if Cadogan was struggling. I am sure we will play better next we better do.0 -
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/waterford-go-from-paupers-to-princes-328591.html
A lot of valid points on both sides of the debate here
I always found Mcdonnell a very honest guy even going back to he's ist interview in the echo in the lead up to the kilkenny league final four years ago when he was full back
He's been outstanding last year and held the best in the game so I find it hard to belive he's gone back that much and he's words that him and cork lads see it as a blessing in disguise imo I'd belive it
Cork didn't go out to loose but their hunger and want and desire was never like waterford and when that happens any team will loose
The cork lads will be hurting and hugely imo not buying the lark their ten points worse off to waterford and there's a huge back lash in this team
It's a disaster if cork loose to waterford have no doubt but imo reading jbm interview in the times if cork loose I think he will actually correctly questions himself and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended he's two year term early
I think the players will sense this and they all hugely have respect for him that imo there's huge performance in June in them
The all Irelands is a huge worry yes but there's a huge difference with the greatest respect to Waterford than kk imo
I have no fear in June but obviously if cork meet kk huge questions to be answered without a doubt0 -
I'd agree in I'd started Spillane etc but Ellis and Murphy both needed games to be match fitIt makes sense wrote: »Would agree totally I understand ttm mind games theory and hope he is correct but I do not agree with the way the cork public have been treated if this is the case that we were not bothered in winning or did not want to show our full hand.
As I said yesterday if this was the case why not play Burke, play Lawton full game play the bench if Cadogan was struggling. I am sure we will play better next we better do.
Murphy main asset is he's ball winning and crisp hurling so imo had to play yesterday to get up to speed
Cork played KK in the ist game and none regular lads had game time v limerick the week before and should have had as they were way off the pace
Jbm even admitted that v tipp last year cork were flat and imo that's why Nash who was sick , Ellis etc all played in needed game time but for me the crucial point is cork never once changed the style and after beating clare last year I don't belive cork were that naive yesterday and even if they were expected a varied approach in June
Even mcgrath expected cork to high press as v clare last year
Also cork deliberately left lehane at full forward all game yet this year unlike last year he was not cornered or confined in that role
Mcdonnell was never switched off he's marker
Numerous other things that weren't done
Imo cork won't make those mistakes again
I also belive landers current training regime based on power and aggression is finely tuned with June not may in mind so I think there's more in cork0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Ryan should of got game time in the league but Joyce injury was in the Dublin game and cahalane they tried to get him fit but unfortunately it went against him
Ryan was only moved from half forward to centre back for midelton in the league club games and on that he was called up when last year I think he got a waterford crystal cameo as a half forward and never seen by this management as a back
I think cork made the correct call taking him off yesterday for two reasons
Ist of all he done all that was asked of him in no clean goal chances or goals he conceded and as the game went on there was the way it had become flat always a chance waterford could bang in late goals as it proved with one at the end so imo they saw what they needed and saved him having any dent of confidence by late goals
He held shanahan well and yes he has bigger tests but he done all that was asked of yesterday and in Thurles in June I'd have no fear of him if he has to start
Also cahalane needed game time also
Ryan had a fine game v KK and most I think would say he done well in that challenge and any of the three goals conceded he imo was not to blame at all but that game he had two corner backs, one lad a fine player just out of minor that were no way cork best corner backs so without real protection he done well and under any high ball he was fine
This management I'd blame the last three years for full back but Joyce and Spillane injured and cahalane struggling I don't think their at fault this year
They have absolutely no other choice
Ellis goes back they have solved one problem to create another
At least if Ryan fails he just fails in if Mcdonnell or Burke or o Neill who are corner backs by trade start at full and get destroyed cork imo are not just loosing at full but they are actually destroying confidence three outstanding corner backs
Ryan has been captain of he's club and showed plenty of leadership for them where o Neill and Mcdonnell and Burke all great hurlers lack the presence to be a full back imo
It's interesting to note when cork played ballyhale shamrock in a challenge Joyce was full back so it shows with Ryan starting against KK that there willing to test these options for full back against great teams unlike last year
Ballyhale are a brilliant club side and gave cork a real test in that winter challenge
I was at that ballyhale match Hoggy & Paudi were shocking in their attitude they were tip tapping to each other while others were breaking their bollix getting them into scoring positions. I know it was only a challenge but those habits have come into Paudi's game too often. Cody wouldn't have put up with that play acting. Cooper broke his toe that day, I suppose if he was guaranteed his place like those two he could have been p***ing around too0 -
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I was at that ballyhale match Hoggy & Paudi were shocking in their attitude they were tip tapping to each other while others were breaking their bollix getting them into scoring positions. I know it was only a challenge but those habits have come into Paudi's game too often. Cody wouldn't have put up with that play acting. Cooper broke his toe that day, I suppose if he was guaranteed his place like those two he could have been p***ing around too
Totally agree with all this
And I said cork must thrive for perfection but yesterday two games same opponent was mad to show the full hand
Paudie was brilliant all league to be fair and even he's touch for the goal was off in normally he's fast hands would stuck that home
Horgan I have said it all year needed to be dropped but it's too late now in even yesterday he's free were poor and I expect him to get those
Horgan is unbelievable but he either great or awful
Cooper is immense to cork and imo under estimated
Horgan was awful in three games for the glen from play and in the county final yet no one questions he's performance
Yet you see two young lads like David doolin and glen kennfick minors playing outstanding all year and at least giving their all no excuse from a senior all Ireland player and all star of eight years in a county final0 -
http://m.independent.ie/sport/cork-can-confound-hurlings-rumour-mongers-26187080.html">http://m.independent.ie/sport/cork-can-confound-hurlings-rumour-mongers-26187080.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/loughnane-roused-these-rebels-1.1008824">http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/loughnane-roused-these-rebels-1.1008824
My point was clare proved were different place for championship compared to cork then in 98
Whatever the rights and wrongs imo cork have greater motivation and Waterford no doubt after tipp and cork wins will be going in bit cocky and like cork then waterford had to league seriously but cork while no clare are ahead of waterford last few years beating them yesterday easy no benefit imo yes it came at the loss of a league title fair enough but imo only one game matters so far for cork and that is June
Yes the louganne talk was exaggeration regards training however he said many times since clare were no where ready
Seanie mcmahon it was mentioned then learned so much from that game and he did
Course he said clare didn't go to loose they wanted to win
The point as time later proved and a completely different clare in championship was clare were in a completely different place to league to championship
Waterford brought savage intensity very very admirable but cork brought absolutely nothing and once that changed the next day it becomes a lot more balanced
Like then waterford like cork were no way ten or eleven points superior to their opponents
A close win id take more value but not the easy way waterford won in like I said at half time I felt cork would fade away as no hunger or drive within
A lot cork players out played Sunday and if they have any rebel pride they will redeem themselves and I fully belive they will
I think cork are going in to the game in a good frame is mind as winning two games v Waterford imo set cork up to be cocky and when cork are cocky like v tipp last year when no reason to be so cocky I'd be worried
In fact cork don't do confidence well and struggled v limerick last year and Waterford the drawn game where as under dog v limerick munster final two years ago bar the sending off and clare in munster twice cork have performed well as work ethic and hunger is there without any problems and even against Dublin and kk two years ago under dog they performed well
This cork team hasn't the swagger of old cork teams and while yes winning a league title would help that be alleviated to a degree imo beating waterford had a risk of coming at a cost
I don't doubt landers who played in that clare scenario fifteen years ago hasn't reflection or learned the lesson of the past and imo knows league and championship championship will always take precedent where necessary.
Reading the post clare league reports prior to the league final back then it's remarkable how they were imo similar traits to their and now
Like then cork didn't go out to loose but training and other things certainly meant cork like clare were in a different place to what was needed
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/tomas-mulcahy-cork-mustup-workrate-by-200-328669.html">http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/tomas-mulcahy-cork-mustup-workrate-by-200-328669.html
Brilliant absolutely brilliant tomas boy beautifully played we need to up work rate by two hundred or three hundred per cent
I would been happy if he should said one twenty but he's playing a blinder
Gleasson I'm huge fan of and is absolutely class but the hype today and yesterday is building and cork won't deprive him of ball he's that good but imo will have a plan to limit him
Pat mulchay who I rate said everything I have been saying cork had no intention clear as day to change to counter waterford system in he's view and that tells it own story and imo like him cork will win in June I think
Yes people will try and get waterford to not buy in to the hype but imo for a young team, the manner of victory in one point win would have been better, the fact they came from nowhere so fast imo means it's very very hard to curb that enthusiasm and very hard for them to match cork intensity the next day
And with out going in to it imo cork have a clear clear plan in place and Waterford imo should notify be offended cork didn't go all out in shows respect landers and co have in know how difficult it's to beat them twice
Yes I'd love cork to be kk win every game but cork are not the KK and kk even showed they won yes but they found it difficult to beat clare two weeks in a row in the league back to back
I don't belive cork are at that stage yet and I admire cork management for having realistic views to know exactly what's in the team and what deserves the biggest focus
Unlike our footballers they seem to know when and what battles to choose to win
Yes understanding it pisses off cork fans over Sunday fair enough I agree with winning everything but this is really close to last chance saloon for cork in who knows who is manager when jbm goes so championship is all that matters and I mean the all Ireland, should cork win in June I say it now I find it hard to belive cork will be totally focuses on munster in yes they will want to win but as munster proves winning it hinders you in the all Ireland0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Totally agree with all this
And I said cork must thrive for perfection but yesterday two games same opponent was mad to show the full hand
Paudie was brilliant all league to be fair and even he's touch for the goal was off in normally he's fast hands would stuck that home
Horgan I have said it all year needed to be dropped but it's too late now in even yesterday he's free were poor and I expect him to get those
Horgan is unbelievable but he either great or awful
Cooper is immense to cork and imo under estimated
Horgan was awful in three games for the glen from play and in the county final yet no one questions he's performance
Yet you see two young lads like David doolin and glen kennfick minors playing outstanding all year and at least giving their all no excuse from a senior all Ireland player and all star of eight years in a county final
i hate losing but what i find hard to except is not putting effort. anytime a player is given a chance to represent their county you should walk off the pitch knowing you gave your all. what does it say to other squad mates when they are not getting a run & others been blase. if we're not good enough i can accept we can always work on that but when you're indifferent that seeps thru the squad & could cause resentments0 -
Totally agree with your sentiment but hurling imo normally all strongest lads start where football to be fair we carry three players no where near inter countyi hate losing but what i find hard to except is not putting effort. anytime a player is given a chance to represent their county you should walk off the pitch knowing you gave your all. what does it say to other squad mates when they are not getting a run & others been blase. if we're not good enough i can accept we can always work on that but when you're indifferent that seeps thru the squad & could cause resentments
The hurling panel does imo need a clear out though in fine club players sullivan kearney lawton are not up to it and actually seriously weaken a team when brought on
John cronin should be getting games and would be ideal against sweeper systems
Think hurling have a unity though however Connor sullivan leaving certainly imo poor reflection in others ahead of him
The football though is way way worse
If true there's talk of possible recall for another cork player
It could be just rumour but if true the player being recall it imo beg all belief this management again and doesn't surprise me
Huge worry was maguire didn't play for barrs and like I said last week back injury he has is huge concern for championship
Our midfield are absolutely going to be destroyed in championship by kerry0 -
Anybody take in the football championship matches over the weekend?0
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Totally agree with your sentiment but hurling imo normally all strongest lads start where football to be fair we carry three players no where near inter county
The hurling panel does imo need a clear out though in fine club players sullivan kearney lawton are not up to it and actually seriously weaken a team when brought on
John cronin should be getting games and would be ideal against sweeper systems
Think hurling have a unity though however Connor sullivan leaving certainly imo poor reflection in others ahead of him
The football though is way way worse
If true there's talk of possible recall for another cork player
It could be just rumour but if true the player being recall it imo beg all belief this management again and doesn't surprise me
Huge worry was maguire didn't play for barrs and like I said last week back injury he has is huge concern for championship
Our midfield are absolutely going to be destroyed in championship by kerry
They will be destroyed by clare first if gary brennan and others are playing. Not only is Maguire out, ruair deane damaged his shoulder badly for blues while paddy Kelly hobbled off for collig - absolute disaster.
As for keepers, paddy o shea was outstanding for vincents the other night, his presence, kickouts and shot stopping better then the managers club mate.
Cork playing Dublin in a friendly on sunday in cill na martra, Dublin fielding a b team while cork wont know until sunday who is togging due to club championship.
John hayes excellent at his level - club for rangers yesterday who were caught late by valley.0 -
Anna Geary has announced her retirement from inter county camogie citing career commitments. 4 time All Ireland winner including last year as captain and 4 time All Star winner0
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ticket details for the Waterford game, on sale now, http://gaacork.ie/news/358955/Tickets_Cork_v_Waterford_Munster_SHC_Semi_Final_7th_June_Thurles
open nights this week, atmosphere might be a bit quiet after the league finals but great nights for the kids.jpg)
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zetecescort wrote: »Anna Geary has announced her retirement from inter county camogie citing career commitments. 4 time All Ireland winner including last year as captain and 4 time All Star winner
Strange timing,there's more to this than meets the eye methinks.
She didn't play last Sunday,wasn't even togged off in fact.0 -
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Sean mac, paddy kelly got a goal and a point but even if fit he won't imo be played for cork and my worry is if so means o rourke or Collins be dropped as Kerrigan or colm or Kevin driscoll will start
Hayes fine club player I'm glad he done well however wait for some article now saying he's intercounty class despite eight years failure cork overall
Fiactra lynch has be success story of the weekend full forward move to midfield and outstanding and I said last week has to get game for cork
He was never full forward but if o shea and cussen and o Connor etc get recall surely he'll get one as great man catch ball and destroy kerry junior years ago, fast mobile and has dog within and actually played corner back once under Counihan and was brilliant
He imo would be better than cadogan gould and sullivan etc and I agree clare midfield will trouble cork but cork in cork probably win the game based on hurley and o Neill individual brilliance rather than team performance
As for Sunday surely it's fair to ask even in a challenge cork at least stop the nonsense playing half back corner back, try at least new midfield options, play half forwards who can kick and create than hand pass and run and with the concessions of eight goal and one hundred and thirty points all league often ignored by the cork media the worse defence in the league at least try and have a coherent organised defence alignment not the shambles we currently have based on numbers back but this blanket is laughed at all around the country as it offers cork zero insulation now cuthbert talked all spring it needed to be fixed well time is running out before July
The cork papers tonight gave tough love to the hurling with hard assement and I welcome it and fairly asked cork management tactically wise and said needed to adapt or cork could become also rans
Fair points
However from the attitude players were wrong last week football to this die with boots on attuide on the field of play surely it's acknowledged that commitment and spirt comes from management as you don't belive in them you have no spirt
There was no critsom really of the football management and the appalling coaching in the last two years where cork all out attack last year to all out defence this year was a shambles and it'd never mentioned in all cuthbert teams cork there all poor defensive wise as seen with he's minors and it's never mentioned Davis sexton and o sullivan have zero club management experience and cuthbert record is poor
And surely after humiliating defeats to Dublin twice and kerry and mayo last year league there tactics are questioned and one question should be asked but isn't imo is can one single improvement of this team be named that happened under the current set up and has any player improved
Sean mac, paddy o shea as a keeper was once great but was poor for club a month ago and price for skib who was brilliant yesterday and saved a penalty and two goals should be called up yet got called up two mcgrath cups season and dropped and yet the fine talent martin who young was rushed through0
This discussion has been closed.
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