Coming soon cars: new models for 2014/2015

fmcg_scribe

bear1 wrote: »

Can't believe Alfa still won't release the Giulia.
They must be the worst performing manufacturer in Italy at this point.. or even in Europe.

Sister brand Lancia is probably in worse condition - the brand will no longer be sold outside Italy.

Fiat Chrylser has other fish to fry:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/14/uk-fiatchrysler-jeep-future-analysis-idUKKCN0I32FE20141014

the culture of deference

Alfa Quadrifoglio wrote: »

Really like the look of the new FIAT 500x

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114101482818/fiat-500x-opening-edition-announced

looks like a cayanne and a micra got together

Leonard Hofstadter

R.O.R wrote: »

It's the Retail Price list I was sent for the new XC90, so no issue to put it up here - PDF attached.

The petrol model is such a bargain compared to the diesel (especially for all the extra kit they add on for the T8 model) - just goes to show what a difference being a plug-in hybrid makes for VRT and motor tax!

I wonder how many they will sell. On paper, it's only a small bit more for a LOT more power and €200 less in motor tax compared to the diesel (which is probably the only reason it will sell at all knowing Ireland). Given how many SUVs are used a yummy mummy mobiles, the petrol model is a lot more sensible as it will involve a fair amount of zero emissions motoring for a lot of the XC90's buyers. And for the performance and technology fans, it's obviously a lot more interesting.

But it may well be far too radical and innovative for the average Irish buyer, who has decided he or she is having a diesel regardless of whether or not it's really needed.

The new car may well be a lot more expensive than its predecessor, but in fairness they've really fitted a lot of goodies as standard even to the entry level model. The only thing the higher trims have that you'd need is the Nappa leather (and the four zone climate control if you're buying the diesel - as the T8 gets this as standard regardless of trim level). It's rather stingy of them to charge over €1000 extra for metallic paint, though, and I'd definitely be wanting the winter pack and the parking camera (a bit stingy of them not to include these things as standard for the Inscription model to be fair).

alias no.9

the culture of deference wrote: »

looks like a cayanne and a micra got together

Given that the Micra is already the bastard child of a Grande Punto and a Mini, it's all a little inbred





Makes me want to hurl, but that might just be the colours

fmcg_scribe

captainspeed wrote: »

The petrol model is such a bargain compared to the diesel (especially for all the extra kit they add on for the T8 model) - just goes to show what a difference being a plug-in hybrid makes for VRT and motor tax!

I wonder how many they will sell. On paper, it's only a small bit more for a LOT more power and €200 less in motor tax compared to the diesel (which is probably the only reason it will sell at all knowing Ireland). Given how many SUVs are used a yummy mummy mobiles, the petrol model is a lot more sensible as it will involve a fair amount of zero emissions motoring for a lot of the XC90's buyers. And for the performance and technology fans, it's obviously a lot more interesting.

But it may well be far too radical and innovative for the average Irish buyer, who has decided he or she is having a diesel regardless of whether or not it's really needed.

The new car may well be a lot more expensive than its predecessor, but in fairness they've really fitted a lot of goodies as standard even to the entry level model. The only thing the higher trims have that you'd need is the Nappa leather (and the four zone climate control if you're buying the diesel - as the T8 gets this as standard regardless of trim level). It's rather stingy of them to charge over €1000 extra for metallic paint, though, and I'd definitely be wanting the winter pack and the parking camera (a bit stingy of them not to include these things as standard for the Inscription model to be fair).

Outgoing XC90 was in production for about 12 years, so there might be pent-up demand from loyal XC90 owners for the new model and that might drive sales for the first two years after launch.

However, sales of the outgoing XC90 levelled off a lot during the recent recession:
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/motors/2012/01/04/sales-figures-for-2011-reveal-irelands-favourite-cars/

The XC60 was selling better in Ireland during that period and that trend might continue.

It seems that Volvo will be not be offering discounts on the new XC90:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/volvo-xc90-discounts-end/1309137

The outgoing XC90 was often discounted by up to 30% in the UK, at least.

Volvo is taking a risk by trying to move the new XC90 "upmarket" to compete against the X5, M class, and Q7. Although the outgoing XC90 received a lot of of praise at launch for its practicality, safety features, and overall build quality and durability, it was poor on fuel economy and performance.

Further, Volvo's premium badge status when measured against the Germans is questionable - for some time, Volvo has been accused of charging premium prices for non-premium cars. Perhaps the new XC90 will buck that trend.

The first reviews of the new car could be interesting.

carsfan

R.O.R. thanks for putting up the Volvo spec. sheet.

It makes interesting reading.
The T8 engine looks very tempting and the price differential is much smaller here than in other markets when you take into account the grants/rebates, but would it be a depreciation disaster in Ireland as not a diesel?

I saw on completecar.i.e a first review of the new Mondeo where they only give it 3.5/5 stars. This is not the first middling review I have seen of it.
I can't remember when I saw a review of a modern Ford that didn't heap praise on the driving experience and I think it really should get 5 stars if it wants to compete against passat etc. that are perceived as more posh. Could be a hard sell unless heavily discounted.

micks_address

Slightly off topic but still no word on a new Accord from Honda - I was chatting someone in Honda Ireland the other day and he says they are putting a 160bhp version of the 1.6 earthdreams diesel engine in the CRV next year, and this engine will be used in a new Accord to be released in 2016...

might tally up with this

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/09/hondas-2015-cr-v-facelift-for-europe.html

PurvesGrundy

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

The outgoing XC90 was often discounted by up to 30% in the UK, at least.

Only by the time it was 7-8 years old. At launch, the model was in some cases trading for above list price and had a twelve month waiting list there.

Volvo is taking a risk by trying to move the new XC90 "upmarket" to compete against the X5, M class, and Q7. Although the outgoing XC90 received a lot of of praise at launch for its practicality, safety features, and overall build quality and durability, it was poor on fuel economy and performance.

The original model cost at least 65k when it was launched in 2003, so was pitched upmarket from the outset. It sold by the bucket load and if that is not an acid test for the price level at which the car can compete then what is.

Bear in mind also that when the XC90 was launched in 2003 its competitors were the quite awful first generation Merc M-Class and the outdated Discovery II. Only the BMW X5 of the time you could say were any better driving.

Further, Volvo's premium badge status when measured against the Germans is questionable - for some time, Volvo has been accused of charging premium prices for non-premium cars. Perhaps the new XC90 will buck that trend.

What dictates 'premium' anyway; the grade of interior plastic?

Volvo have always been a 'cut above brand' synonymous with quality and have merely been left behind in the premium race in recent years as well as through factors such as Audi's massive growth absorbing a lot of their customers. Their main problem these days I would say is image and a lack of awareness by customers of present product offering. If they have gotten this XC90 right and make a decent fist of next year's S80 replacement, there is a very good chance of them being put back on the map again.

sunnysoutheast

micks_address wrote: »

Slightly off topic but still no word on a new Accord from Honda - I was chatting someone in Honda Ireland the other day and he says they are putting a 160bhp version of the 1.6 earthdreams diesel engine in the CRV next year, and this engine will be used in a new Accord to be released in 2016...

might tally up with this

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/09/hondas-2015-cr-v-facelift-for-europe.html

Wonder if the 1.6 9-speed auto will be 4WD? Will be buying one if so

9 gears!!! our current one has 3+o/d!!

Zubeneschamali

micks_address wrote: »

Slightly off topic but still no word on a new Accord from Honda l

i thought the Accord for Europe was getting the axe, along with the Avensis.

BdaraB

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

i thought the Accord for Europe was getting the axe, along with the Avensis.

The Avensis will be getting a substantial facelift in a year or two which is rumoured to be its last generation while the Accord was cancelled years ago and if there is another generation it won't be European only more likely a modified version of the American or Chinese versions

fmcg_scribe

BdaraB wrote: »

The Avensis will be getting a substantial facelift in a year or two which is rumoured to be its last generation while the Accord was cancelled years ago and if there is another generation it won't be European only more likely a modified version of the American or Chinese versions

I haven't seen anything to confirm that the Accord has been cancelled but the car's future does look unclear, in Europe at least.

For some time, Honda has managed the lifecycle of the car differently across the Americas, Europe, and Australasia and there have been regional differences within each of those regions.

There will definitely be a 2015 Accord in some parts of the world.

There is a Facebook campaign to bring the Acura TLX to Europe and make it the "new" Accord:
https://www.facebook.com/neweurohondaaccord

I know that Nissan is ramping up its plans for its Infiniti brand in Europe but I don't know whether Honda has similar plans for its Acura brand but it seems that the continuing flat car sales figures across Europe generally are probably delaying the brand's introduction here:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130527/OEM/305279977/acura-eyes-emerging-markets

Honda does not seem to be talking about the Accord at the Paris motor show:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/88800/honda-doesnt-have-a-class-topper-could-its-new-range-change-that
http://world.honda.com/news/2014/4141002Paris-Motor-Show/

Perhaps the Accord does not have a long-term future in Europe. Reviews of the car in recent years have been lukewarm at best and there seems to be a view in the UK motoring press that all of the Accord's rivals have left it behind.

Equally, the family car segment is under threat from compact exec cars and from SUVs, so Honda might not want to fight those battles with the Accord.

micks_address

I was talking to a Honda Dealer last week re the Accord and i mentioned how it was 08 since the last version was introduced and it was way to long between introducing a new version... he said back in the 80's honda had ten years between releasing a new version so he reckoned there will be another one...

The European Accord and US Accord are both sold in Austraila.. which is a bit odd...

Hard to justidy the 42k price of a Top spec accord against cars like a top spec Skoda superb coming in at 37k... 170bhp.. with everything on it

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

I haven't seen anything to confirm that the Accord has been cancelled but the car's future does look unclear, in Europe at least.

For some time, Honda has managed the lifecycle of the car differently across the Americas, Europe, and Australasia and there have been regional differences within each of those regions.

There will definitely be a 2015 Accord in some parts of the world.

There is a Facebook campaign to bring the Acura TLX to Europe and make it the "new" Accord:
https://www.facebook.com/neweurohondaaccord

I know that Nissan is ramping up its plans for its Infiniti brand in Europe but I don't know whether Honda has similar plans for its Acura brand but it seems that the continuing flat car sales figures across Europe generally are probably delaying the brand's introduction here:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130527/OEM/305279977/acura-eyes-emerging-markets

Honda does not seem to be talking about the Accord at the Paris motor show:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/88800/honda-doesnt-have-a-class-topper-could-its-new-range-change-that
http://world.honda.com/news/2014/4141002Paris-Motor-Show/

Perhaps the Accord does not have a long-term future in Europe. Reviews of the car in recent years have been lukewarm at best and there seems to be a view in the UK motoring press that all of the Accord's rivals have left it behind.

Equally, the family car segment is under threat from compact exec cars and from SUVs, so Honda might not want to fight those battles with the Accord.

fmcg_scribe

micks_address wrote: »

I was talking to a Honda Dealer last week re the Accord and i mentioned how it was 08 since the last version was introduced and it was way to long between introducing a new version... he said back in the 80's honda had ten years between releasing a new version so he reckoned there will be another one...

The European Accord and US Accord are both sold in Austraila.. which is a bit odd...

Hard to justidy the 42k price of a Top spec accord against cars like a top spec Skoda superb coming in at 37k... 170bhp.. with everything on it

The future of the "Honda Accord Euro" sold "Down Under" is unclear:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/280833/honda-accord-euro-future-still-unclear-for-medium-car/
http://www.caradvice.com.au/286475/honda-accord-euro-decision-on-future-due-within-months/

In Europe at least, Honda launched eight versions of the Accord within about 32 years, so the model has definitely not followed the seven year lifecycle used by many volume car makers, especially German ones.

fmcg_scribe

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

Only by the time it was 7-8 years old. At launch, the model was in some cases trading for above list price and had a twelve month waiting list there.

The original model cost at least 65k when it was launched in 2003, so was pitched upmarket from the outset. It sold by the bucket load and if that is not an acid test for the price level at which the car can compete then what is.

Bear in mind also that when the XC90 was launched in 2003 its competitors were the quite awful first generation Merc M-Class and the outdated Discovery II. Only the BMW X5 of the time you could say were any better driving.

What dictates 'premium' anyway; the grade of interior plastic?

Volvo have always been a 'cut above brand' synonymous with quality and have merely been left behind in the premium race in recent years as well as through factors such as Audi's massive growth absorbing a lot of their customers. Their main problem these days I would say is image and a lack of awareness by customers of present product offering. If they have gotten this XC90 right and make a decent fist of next year's S80 replacement, there is a very good chance of them being put back on the map again.

Agree that outgoing XC90 had a waiting list in Ireland and many other countries for, say, most of the first three years after it was launched. However, that must be put into context:

• At launch, Volvo probably underpriced the car - that's the general view in the motoring press and probably in the motor trade too. List prices were raised significatly within two years of launch but of course that did nothing to dampen demand.
• 10-12 years ago, the Irish economy was very different from how it is today - back then, many Irish car buyers "felt" sufficiently properous to splash the cash on a new luxury or premium SUV, so the more people who felt like that, the more likely that is that waiting lists would grow and that speculators could trouser decent profits.
• 10-12 years ago, the BMW X5 and I presume the M Class and Lexus RX too also had waiting lists in Ireland and elsewhere.
• Around the same time, many other more bog standard cars popular in Ireland also has waiting lists, for the example, the second generation Toyota Avensis.

The point that I'm making here is that the waiting lists in Ireland 10 years ago for the outgoing XC90 are not as sigificant as you seem to be suggesting. Think of it as follows: if most of the students who take an exam get an "A", how do you establish who's the best?

Agree that the initial price of the outgoing XC90 in Ireland was around the same as the likes of some X5 and M class models. However, just because the XC90 was priced similarly did not mean that the XC90 was perceived similarly especially when it came to residual values after the first three years onwards.

Perhaps somebody who has bought and sold a few XC90s can comment on this but even allowing for the deflation in Ireland over the last several years and the move to CO2 emissions for VRT calculations, the price new of the outgoing XC90 has reduced a lot:

• 2014 recommended retail prices (source: http://www.volvocars.com/ie/all-cars/documents/xc90pricelist.pdf, January 2014): D4 FWD SE Geartronic €49,995; D5 AWD SE Geartronic €54,995.
• 2003 list prices (source: SIMI spreadsheet from 2003): T6 Geartronic €67,900; D5 €59,500.

My point here is that the outgoing XC90 has not been able command the same price new that it used to but I suppose that that was inevitavble when the lifecycle of the car was extended to 12 years. It's no wonder that high discounts were needed in some countries for the last few years.

Agree that outgoing XC90 sold very well in Ireland for the first couple of years after launch but it's not accurate to say that it sold by the "bucket load" - it was eclipsed by its premium rivals, notably the BMW X5.

The proof lies in interntational production and sales data:

• By the time that the outgoing XC90 ceased production last July, Volvo was reporting 636,000 units produced (see https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/147889/end-of-an-era-as-swedish-production-of-volvo-xc90-stops-after-12-years) but the yearly breakown is more interesting: http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/history/xc90_stats_search.php
• The total production figure for the X5 from 1999 to 2013 (the first two generations) is 1,309,819 - the yearly breakdown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X5

It's obvious from the data that the outgoing XC90's best year for sales was 2003/2004. The third generation X5 has a waiting list in many countries. Although the new XC90 has a waiting list, I'm not sure that there will still be a waiting list for it in, say, two or three years time.

Agree that the term "premium" is vague and fuzzy but perhaps it's easier to define the term by contrasting it with "luxury", for example:
http://branduniq.com/2013/luxury-branding-the-difference-between-premium-and-luxury/

I suspect that opinions vary among car buyers and people in the motor trade about whether Volvo is truly a premium brand capable of competing against its close European rivals. For me personally, the exterior designs of Volvo's cars in recent years have left me cold and I'm not sure that car safety features is a sufficiently good selling point these days - most new cars achieve 4 and 5 stars in EuroNCAP tests.

Perhaps the new XC90 will mark a positive step change for Volvo and help to change perceptions of the brand. However, I remain sceptical about pricing the new car to match its German rivals. We'll know more when the first reviews are published.

carsfan

I would think the reason the XC90 reduced in price so much and was discounted so heavily in the UK is down to the fact that it was left on sale so long and had to compete against more modern rivals in that time.
12 years is an eternity in terms of technology and emissions and it was substantially unchanged due to, I presume a lack of finances in Volvo.
I don't know if they will discount this new model here but I think I read they are very confident of selling 2 or 3 hundred a year in Ireland which is quite a few I think for our market. Time will tell...

Leonard Hofstadter

I could see them selling quite a few next year - there must be some amount of pent up demand because of the fact that they've been selling the same car since 2002.

There's an upturn in the economy and this year is predicted to be the best year since 2008, with next year likely to be even better.

I agree the pricing of the diesel is somewhat ambitious, but bear in mind that the '1927' launch models sold out in just two days - and they were even more expensive. The hybrid T8 model is a bargain for what you're getting in return.

It's the smart choice, but whether it has any appeal in diesel obsessed and very conservative Ireland, is a scéal eile as they say.

PurvesGrundy

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agree that outgoing XC90 had a waiting list in Ireland and many other countries for, say, most of the first three years after it was launched. However, that must be put into context:

• At launch, Volvo probably underpriced the car - that's the general view in the motoring press and probably in the motor trade too. List prices were raised significatly within two years of launch but of course that did nothing to dampen demand.

Under-priced the car? I don't think so.

I'd also like to find out your source that they 'hiked' the price after two years. They introduced more expensive versions such as the Executive, sure, but they never raised the price.

10-12 years ago, the BMW X5 and I presume the M Class and Lexus RX too also had waiting lists in Ireland and elsewhere.

Not at nearly a year they didn't.

Around the same time, many other more bog standard cars popular in Ireland also has waiting lists, for the example, the second generation Toyota Avensis.

Again, I think a 12 month waiting list for an Avensis is pretty much unheard of.

The point that I'm making here is that the waiting lists in Ireland 10 years ago for the outgoing XC90 are not as sigificant as you seem to be suggesting. Think of it as follows: if most of the students who take an exam get an "A", how do you establish who's the best?

I wasn't referring to just the Irish market. I meant it sold by the bucket load globally and initially they massively underestimated demand for the car, hence the long waiting lists.

Agree that the initial price of the outgoing XC90 in Ireland was around the same as the likes of some X5 and M class models.

Did you not just say that they underpriced the car?

However, just because the XC90 was priced similarly did not mean that the XC90 was perceived similarly especially when it came to residual values after the first three years onwards.

Do you have any factual info that the XC90 depreciated heavily or are you just going by that old chestnut that all Volvo's drop like a stone? Compared to the likes of the larger saloons, I don't think XC90 depreciation was ever as severe. To this day, they remain a good seller secondhand and there have been a great quantity of 2010 examples imported from the UK in recent years to make-up for the shortage of Irish ones.

My point here is that the outgoing XC90 has not been able command the same price new that it used to but I suppose that that was inevitavble when the lifecycle of the car was extended to 12 years.

I personally think that over 50k is an impressive price for a product that uses an engine that is two generations old and a platform that can trace its way back to the 1999 S80.

carsfan

To my eyes, the new Volvo looks every bit as premium as a BMW X5, Merc ML or Audi Q7. It also looks alot more advanced on the inside. Indeed to somea Volvo is less in your face and more socially acceptable.
Would have to agree with Purves Grundy that for a model as ancient as it was, the outgoing model did very well.
I would wonder if a lack of big capacity engines will hinder it in other markets. Not Ireland of course where a 2 litre diesel is considered the height of decadence by many.

Tragedy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, the Fusion was designed for Ford in the USA, where Ford make cheap crap. Now the new Mondeo is based on it, because Ford didn't have the money to build a proper car for Europe.

So it'll be crap. The reviews will say "Not as sharp as it's predecessor" or "Not as involving to drive as the MKIV" or whatever, but in 10 years, everyone will say "Pity that Ford had to sell that American crap in Europe because they were broke".

You do like to talk nonsense don't you?

Ford made $8billion profit in 2013.
$6billion in 2012
$6.2 billion in 2011
$6.6 billion in 2010

Yet you talk about a broke Ford trying to pedal any auld ****e on the Europeans to save money.

Ford want to cut costs by having a global car strategy, instead of having separate cars for each territory. This is something European manufacturers do already, but you have a huge issue with Ford doing it for some reason?

The Focus and the Fiesta are both global Fords, and the Mondeo is simply the next iteration of such.

fmcg_scribe

carsfan wrote: »

To my eyes, the new Volvo looks every bit as premium as a BMW X5, Merc ML or Audi Q7. It also looks alot more advanced on the inside. Indeed to somea Volvo is less in your face and more socially acceptable.
Would have to agree with Purves Grundy that for a model as ancient as it was, the outgoing model did very well.
I would wonder if a lack of big capacity engines will hinder it in other markets. Not Ireland of course where a 2 litre diesel is considered the height of decadence by many.

Agree more or less with all of your comments. For me personally, the X5 went off the boil after the first generation. I don't have much time for the M class and the Q7 but they have sold well and a lot of people seem to be keen on them.

fmcg_scribe

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

[/LIST]
Under-priced the car? I don't think so.

I'd also like to find out your source that they 'hiked' the price after two years. They introduced more expensive versions such as the Executive, sure, but they never raised the price.

Not at nearly a year they didn't.

Again, I think a 12 month waiting list for an Avensis is pretty much unheard of.

I wasn't referring to just the Irish market. I meant it sold by the bucket load globally and initially they massively underestimated demand for the car, hence the long waiting lists.

Did you not just say that they underpriced the car?

Do you have any factual info that the XC90 depreciated heavily or are you just going by that old chestnut that all Volvo's drop like a stone? Compared to the likes of the larger saloons, I don't think XC90 depreciation was ever as severe. To this day, they remain a good seller secondhand and there have been a great quantity of 2010 examples imported from the UK in recent years to make-up for the shortage of Irish ones.

I personally think that over 50k is an impressive price for a product that uses an engine that is two generations old and a platform that can trace its way back to the 1999 S80.

Under-pricing
"Under-pricing" a car is a relative term and your view of it depends on whether you're a buyer or a seller/manufacturer.

If you're a buyer, you'd say that the the launch price was the price you'd be prepared for the car new rather than do without it.

If the seller/manufacturer determines that there is great demand for a new model and waiting lists are growing and people are selling on nearly new ones for a premium, raising the price a little is a no-brainer.

Another example from recent years was the outgoing Nissan GT-R: the retail price was raised significantly by Nissan a couple of years after launch but even after the price rise most motoring journalists were saying that car was still great value for money, especially when compared to its more expensive European rivals.

Don't get too hung up on the under-pricing issue: it's a question of perspective and of supply and demand.

Price hike
The following links are all definite that there was a price hike in the UK at least around 2003:
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volvo/xc90-2002/?section=good
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volvo/xc90/16199/volvo-xc90
http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/roadtests/xc90_d5_s_roadtest.shtml

If prices were raised for UK buyers, you can be fairly certain that prices were raised in all other countries where the car was sold.

Using SIMI historic retail price data (http://www.simi.ie/Statistics/Recommended+Price+Guides.html), prices of the outgoing XC90 during the first four years were as follows:
January 2003:
T6 Geartronic (272 bhp) € 67,900
D5 (163 bhp) € 59,500

January 2004:
T6 S Geartronic (272 bhp) € 70,900
D5 S (163 bhp) € 62,500
2.5T S (210 bhp) € 63,500
T6 SE Geartronic (272 bhp) € 75,300
D5 SE (163 bhp) € 66,900
2.5T SE (210 bhp) € 67,900

January 2005:
2.5T S (210 bhp) 65,900
T6 S Geartronic (272 bhp) 73,550
D5 S (163 bhp) 64,850
2.5T SE (210 bhp) 69,930
T6 SE Geartronic (272 bhp) 77,580
D5 SE (163 bhp) 68,880

January 2006:
2.5T S (210 bhp) 65,900
T6 S Geartronic (272 bhp) 73,550
2.4d S Geartronic Euro III (163 bhp) 67,165
D5 S Euro IV (185 bhp) 65,900

It's clear from this data that prices of the outgoing XC90 rose significantly during the first couple of years after launch but then they started to reach a steady state.

Avensis waiting list
That surprised me at the time when I first heard it but it come from an acquaintance in the motor trade who was not prone to exaggeration or telling lies.

As you know, Toyotas have become very popular in Ireland over the last 30 years, so that coupled with the Celtic Tiger economy at the time probably caused a waiting list in Ireland for the second generation Avensis when it was launched.

Residuals
It's hard to determine how residuals of the outgoing XC90 have fared over in Ireland over the last decade or so. Obviously, as with most other makes of car, the recession and the move to C02 emissions based VRT and motor tax in 2008 will have pushed down the values of early Xc90s in Ireland.

Looking at a cross section of links about XC90 residuals for other countries, the following comment about the outgoing XC90 in http://www.kbb.com/volvo/xc90/2014-volvo-xc90/ is not untypical:
"The XC90 retains marginal resale value, well below the BMW X5, Acura MDX, Volkswagen Touareg and Cadillac SRX, but on par with the Buick Enclave."

More on Volvo's future pricing strategy
This link is interesting:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2013/09/volvo-prices-to-increase-as-brand-moves-upmarket.html

Tragedy

If you check the prices of the Ford Mondeo from Jan 2004 - Jan 2006, it had a proprtionately larger price increase year on year than the Volvo XC90.

Clearly the Mondeo was underpriced and list prices were raised significantly.

You're also ignoring that the sole price hike in the UK was in conjunction with a refresh that consisted of among other things:
A revised Euro 4 diesel engine with significantly more power and torque
A revised 4wd system
A new 6 speed manual gearbox


You're also showing a pretty basic lack of knowledge by thinking that ANY level of demand in Ireland would ever produce a significant waiting list. Any waiting lists in Ireland have been exogenous in nature, a result of wider demand across LHD/RHD markets.

fmcg_scribe

Tragedy wrote: »

If you check the prices of the Ford Mondeo from Jan 2004 - Jan 2006, it had a proprtionately larger price increase year on year than the Volvo XC90.

Clearly the Mondeo was underpriced and list prices were raised significantly.

You're also ignoring that the sole price hike in the UK was in conjunction with a refresh that consisted of among other things:
A revised Euro 4 diesel engine with significantly more power and torque
A revised 4wd system
A new 6 speed manual gearbox


You're also showing a pretty basic lack of knowledge by thinking that ANY level of demand in Ireland would ever produce a significant waiting list. Any waiting lists in Ireland have been exogenous in nature, a result of wider demand across LHD/RHD markets.

Agree that LHD/RHD is a consideration when volume car makers are looking at global production and which markets to focus on but I don't see that your other comments are relevant to the discussion about the outgoing XC90. You don't seem to understand how pricing works generally, especially the idea of price discovery.

carsfan

Another new car I am interested in seeing the pricing of is the Land Rover Discovery Sport.
I have never felt Land Rover to be a premium badge.
I know Range Rovers are extremely dear but I don't know any one that has one that hasn't had to spend huge money to keep them on the road and a few who have been left on the side of the road in relatively new models. this is the very opposite of premium/luxury to me.
I feel that Land Rover think they compete with X3, Q5 and will price it accordingly if not more expensive even than the opposition.
The British press will give it rave reviews I guess and it probably will have waiting list in the UK based on its looks and badge which I think is seen as premium over there.

Tragedy

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agree that LHD/RHD is a consideration when volume car makers are looking at global production and which markets to focus on but I don't see that your other comments are relevant to the discussion about the outgoing XC90. You don't seem to understand how pricing works generally, especially the idea of price discovery.

You like to use terms that you don't understand and to throw out broad 'facts' that when shown to be untrue, you just stop talking about and change the argument into something new.

Price discovery doesn't mean what you think it does and it is in no way relevant to the price of a car, price discovery relates to assets/commodities and market places - not how much consumer goods sell for.

Many cars increased in price through the 2000s, rising commodity costs, inflation and currency movements explains most of it. You also described a less than 3% price increase as 'significant', made up comments about waiting lists on cars and used a price increase in the UK that coincided with a significant refresh and upgrade as proof that the xc90 was underpriced.

fmcg_scribe

Tragedy wrote: »

You like to use terms that you don't understand and to throw out broad 'facts' that when shown to be untrue, you just stop talking about and change the argument into something new.

Price discovery doesn't mean what you think it does and it is in no way relevant to the price of a car, price discovery relates to assets/commodities and market places - not how much consumer goods sell for.

Many cars increased in price through the 2000s, rising commodity costs, inflation and currency movements explains most of it. You also described a less than 3% price increase as 'significant', made up comments about waiting lists on cars and used a price increase in the UK that coincided with a significant refresh and upgrade as proof that the xc90 was underpriced.

You really don't have a clue about very much, do you?

You haven't been able to provide any hard data for any of your assertions.

Marcusm

carsfan wrote: »

I know Range Rovers are extremely dear but I don't know any one that has one that hasn't had to spend huge money to keep them on the road and a few who have been left on the side of the road in relatively new models. this is the very opposite of premium/luxury to me.
.

Allow me to introrduce myself, I have a 4.2 s/c for the last 3 years and other than servicing, tyres and one well known issue re wiring of the supercharger (£150 or so), I have had no problems. 40,000 miles in all conditions over that time.

Mc Love

there isnt too much in the difference between the current and new mondeo. Its very minimal - although the driving in the new mondeo seems to be not as good as the current one

Frankie Lee

The Aston Martin grille does nothing for me either, looks dated already.