Coming soon cars: new models for 2014/2015

fmcg_scribe

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/coming-soon-cars-new-models-2014-2015/1206442?HAYILC=RELATED

R.O.R

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/coming-soon-cars-new-models-2014-2015/1206442?HAYILC=RELATED

Got full details through on the New XC90 this morning, and expecting the Discovery Sport before the end of the week.

New XC90 PHEV is only about €3,000 more than the D5 (225bhp) but gives 320bhp + 80bhp, and only 64g Co2.

ofcork

Saw photos of the merc X6 rival and its as bad looking.

carsfan

Any chance you could put up details on the xc90 as I am interested in this model . Not here until April/May though?

fmcg_scribe

carsfan wrote: »

Any chance you could put up details on the xc90 as I am interested in this model . Not here until April/May though?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volvo/xc90/63546/new-2015-volvo-xc90-revealed-in-paris-pics-specs-video-and-full-details
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/293143/volvo_xc90_pictures_prices_and_specs.html

fmcg_scribe

ofcork wrote: »

Saw photos of the merc X6 rival and its as bad looking.

I'm sure that the Americans will love it.

colm_mcm

Saw something about a 5 door Audi TT coming.

bazz26

Yep, Audi TT Sportback:

fmcg_scribe

colm_mcm wrote: »

Saw something about a 5 door Audi TT coming.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/tt/88794/audi-tt-sportback-concept-revealed
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/audi-tt-sportback-paris-motor-show-2014-10-1

Chris_Heilong

Nothing interesting for me bar the new MX5, is the Ford Mustang not being released next year?

R.O.R

carsfan wrote: »

Any chance you could put up details on the xc90 as I am interested in this model . Not here until April/May though?

Orders are open now, so should be here earlier than April I'd say.

I'll scan through it in the morning and see if there are bits i can put up.

70,950 for the D5 momentum 4wd from memory. Not selling the very basic model in Ireland and the 2wd model Will come later on

carsfan

Thanks for the info and links guys.
Looks like the front drive version of XC90 not out until September which would make it a 2016 car realistically.Pity,I think this will be the big seller when it comes and what I would have been looking for.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Really like the look of the new FIAT 500x

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114101482818/fiat-500x-opening-edition-announced

Zubeneschamali

The next-generation S-Max will use the same chassis as the new Mondeo and feature a simpler, more sophisticated dashboard than the outgoing car.

The news is it's using an American chassis, so it'll be sh!t to drive, but they want to talk about a simpler, more sophisticated dashboard? WTF are they on about?

The S-Max, like the last Mondeo, had a perfectly simple dashboard with very clear analogue clocks and no messing. I'll bet money this new sophisticated dash is actually more complicated and difficult, not simpler at all.

ba_barabus

I was talking to a friend who is just back from the Salon de Paris who described the interior quality of the Mondeo as laughably shyte. Criticism centered around fit and finish being awful for such a new car and a show car at that.

I'm pretty surprised tbh as I didn't expect that to be the only thing he said about it.

Zubeneschamali

ba_barabus wrote: »

II'm pretty surprised tbh as I didn't expect that to be the only thing he said about it.

Well, you can't expect him to tell you it's shyte to drive after looking at it on a stand at a show...

It's an American model made over for the Euro market for twopence. It'll be another in the great tradition of Ford models abusing their names because the accountants said so. When they replace it, they'll probably have to bury the Mondeo name with it, like the Escort of old.

alias no.9

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The next-generation S-Max will use the same chassis as the new Mondeo and feature a simpler, more sophisticated dashboard than the outgoing car.

The news is it's using an American chassis, so it'll be sh!t to drive, but they want to talk about a simpler, more sophisticated dashboard? WTF are they on about?

The S-Max, like the last Mondeo, had a perfectly simple dashboard with very clear analogue clocks and no messing. I'll bet money this new sophisticated dash is actually more complicated and difficult, not simpler at all.

Had a 2014 model year Ford Fusion as a hire car in the states a few months back, it's pretty much a Mondeo, or more to the point the latest Mondeo is a Ford Fusion since the Fusion launched first.

Zubeneschamali

alias no.9 wrote: »

Had a 2014 model year Ford Fusion as a hire car in the states a few months back, it's pretty much a Mondeo, or more to the point the latest Mondeo is a Ford Fusion since the Fusion launched first.

Yes, the Fusion was designed for Ford in the USA, where Ford make cheap crap. Now the new Mondeo is based on it, because Ford didn't have the money to build a proper car for Europe.

So it'll be crap. The reviews will say "Not as sharp as it's predecessor" or "Not as involving to drive as the MKIV" or whatever, but in 10 years, everyone will say "Pity that Ford had to sell that American crap in Europe because they were broke".

fmcg_scribe

ba_barabus wrote: »

I was talking to a friend who is just back from the Salon de Paris who described the interior quality of the Mondeo as laughably shyte. Criticism centered around fit and finish being awful for such a new car and a show car at that.

I'm pretty surprised tbh as I didn't expect that to be the only thing he said about it.

Well, you might want to reserve judgement until you see the car in the metal and inspect the interior:
Five reasons to look forward to the 2015 Ford Mondeo - What Car?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZSzc1SF5iU
2015 Ford Mondeo gets previewed by What Car? readers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHCB6SB5qI

ba_barabus

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Well, you might want to reserve judgement until you see the car in the metal and inspect the interior:
Five reasons to look forward to the 2015 Ford Mondeo - What Car?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZSzc1SF5iU
2015 Ford Mondeo gets previewed by What Car? readers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHCB6SB5qI

I've no issue with the exterior, I've already seen one. I've never been in one however. TBH I think it looks too big for our roads. I reckon sales won't be good tbh.

fmcg_scribe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, the Fusion was designed for Ford in the USA, where Ford make cheap crap. Now the new Mondeo is based on it, because Ford didn't have the money to build a proper car for Europe.

So it'll be crap. The reviews will say "Not as sharp as it's predecessor" or "Not as involving to drive as the MKIV" or whatever, but in 10 years, everyone will say "Pity that Ford had to sell that American crap in Europe because they were broke".

I hold no brief for Ford or the Mondeo but your comments are outrageous. It's true that many car makers want to make economies of scale and to share parts across models intended for different markets. However, Ford and others understand the differences in buyer preferences across different markets, especially the differences between European and US car buyers.

From http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/First-Official-Pictures/Ford-Mondeo-arrives-in-Europe---three-years-late/:
"The development team claims the Mondeo will feel quite different to the US-market Fusion, owing to new engines, bodystyles and even tyres for Europe.
They argue it's far from a three-year-old car."

From http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Industry-News/Why-is-the-new-2015-Ford-Mondeo-so-late-to-arrive-in-Europe/:
"There’s no arguing that the fundamental architecture of the Mondeo is arriving nearly three years late. But Ford of Europe’s vehicle dynamics manager Geert van Noyen argues that the delay allowed Ford to fine-tune the new Mondeo for regional differences.

‘The all-new Mondeo is a brand new car to customers in Europe and we think it looks great, even after the new face of Ford debuted on the Fusion,’ he told CAR. ‘The car will arrive in dealerships in all body styles across Europe from November 2014.

‘In the time period between the Fusion launching in North America and the Mondeo launching here in Europe, Ford has added significantly new features the car that would not have been available previously. Pre-Collision Assist with Ford’s first global application of Pedestrian Detection technology is a key example of this, and we have done extensive work on the dynamics of the new Mondeo compared to the Fusion.

‘In Europe, it’s important to remember that we have a few crucial market differences: customers are allowed to drive faster, the payload is higher, standard tyres in Europe are summer tyres versus all-season in the US.’"

fmcg_scribe

ba_barabus wrote: »

I've no issue with the exterior, I've already seen one. I've never been in one however. TBH I think it looks too big for our roads. I reckon sales won't be good tbh.

Sales might not be great for other reasons but it's unlikely that the new car has substantially larger dimensions than its predecessor.

fmcg_scribe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The next-generation S-Max will use the same chassis as the new Mondeo and feature a simpler, more sophisticated dashboard than the outgoing car.

The news is it's using an American chassis, so it'll be sh!t to drive, but they want to talk about a simpler, more sophisticated dashboard? WTF are they on about?

The S-Max, like the last Mondeo, had a perfectly simple dashboard with very clear analogue clocks and no messing. I'll bet money this new sophisticated dash is actually more complicated and difficult, not simpler at all.

Ford is rationalising the number of platforms that it uses for global car production. Fusion and new Mondeo and probably the new S-Max will all share this platform:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_CD4_platform

Standardising on a small number of platforms has become the holy grail for most volume car makers. VW in particular talks a lot about this issue.

For example, BMW uses the same platform to build all the body styles of the current 5, 6, and 7 series - and the current Rolls Royce Ghost shares a lot of parts with the current 7 series.

Zubeneschamali

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Ford and others understand the differences in buyer preferences across different markets, especially the differences between European and US car buyers.

And this model has nothing to do with the fact that Ford were stony broke when they needed a Mondeo replacement.

Yes, the engines will be different: I can't see a 1.0 Fusion selling very well in the states.

New tyres, for feck's sake. If you can't see through obvious PR like that...

Lurching

I like the look of the BMW 7 Series concept.
It'll be interesting to see if they can make the released version look anywhere near as aggressive.

fmcg_scribe

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

And this model has nothing to do with the fact that Ford were stony broke when they needed a Mondeo replacement.

Yes, the engines will be different: I can't see a 1.0 Fusion selling very well in the states.

New tyres, for feck's sake. If you can't see through obvious PR like that...

You can think what you like but it's better to stick with facts.

Ford has had a lot of problems in recent years but GM, Toyota, VW, and many others have had similar problems. In the case of Ford and GM, their European divisions have been loss making for some time and both car makers have had to make certain financial and technical decisions to keep operating in Europe.

In the context, why would Ford want to launch a new Mondeo in Europe before it had all its ducks in a row? That segment of the car market is under threat from compact executive cars and from small SUVs.

fmcg_scribe

Lurching wrote: »

I like the look of the BMW 7 Series concept.
It'll be interesting to see if they can make the released version look anywhere near as aggressive.

You mean this? http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/i8/88850/new-bmw-7-series-slims-down-for-2015

Test mules photographed so far are under heavy camouflage, so it's hard to say if the new 7 series will introduce a new "design language" for the brand. Right now, the most important thing for the next versions of the BMW 5, 6, and 7 series is that they are lighter than the current models. The weight of the current versions of those models is killing them in reviews, especially the M5 and M6.

alias no.9

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, the Fusion was designed for Ford in the USA, where Ford make cheap crap. Now the new Mondeo is based on it, because Ford didn't have the money to build a proper car for Europe.

So it'll be crap. The reviews will say "Not as sharp as it's predecessor" or "Not as involving to drive as the MKIV" or whatever, but in 10 years, everyone will say "Pity that Ford had to sell that American crap in Europe because they were broke".

I've driven the Fusion and I've driven older American pieces of **** like this



and this



back when they were still shiny and bright on the car rental lots. All I can say is that Ford USA has really upped its game. In older American cars, you knew it was an American car (or possibly a Korean car from that era), not so anymore. I think you're wrong if you think this will be regarded as anything less than a complete Mondeo in Europe.

R.O.R

carsfan wrote: »

Thanks for the info and links guys.
Looks like the front drive version of XC90 not out until September which would make it a 2016 car realistically.Pity,I think this will be the big seller when it comes and what I would have been looking for.

It's the Retail Price list I was sent for the new XC90, so no issue to put it up here - PDF attached.

As for the Mondeo, the interior is a little disappointing. Plastic around the radio is a bit cheap looking, but the rest of the cabin is of higher quality than the outgoing model. Not sure whether the new infotainment system will be a better way of running everything, rather than all the buttons. In some ways it looks a lot neater, but a big touch screen still looks a little strange.

Things like the Climate control temperatures can be changed either via the screen, or there are still separate buttons on the console - also can be done via voice control, which is very pointless. Using a Windows based system for the infotainment system, so will be interesting as to how well that works with Android / iPhone's. Still having fairly major issues with the new Insignia system on most cars, that Opel haven't managed to rectify - not sure whether that's Window's/Android or something else.

Physically, it doesn't appear to be as large as the outgoing model. Will be driving it later this month.

mailforkev

R.O.R wrote: »

It's the Retail Price list I was sent for the new XC90, so no issue to put it up here - PDF attached.

Only 2.5k for an extra 175 bhp must be the engine upgrade bargain of the decade. For a 70k+ car that's buttons to most potential buyers.

bear1

Can't believe Alfa still won't release the Giulia.
They must be the worst performing manufacturer in Italy at this point.. or even in Europe.

fmcg_scribe

bear1 wrote: »

Can't believe Alfa still won't release the Giulia.
They must be the worst performing manufacturer in Italy at this point.. or even in Europe.

Sister brand Lancia is probably in worse condition - the brand will no longer be sold outside Italy.

Fiat Chrylser has other fish to fry:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/14/uk-fiatchrysler-jeep-future-analysis-idUKKCN0I32FE20141014

the culture of deference

Alfa Quadrifoglio wrote: »

Really like the look of the new FIAT 500x

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114101482818/fiat-500x-opening-edition-announced

looks like a cayanne and a micra got together

Leonard Hofstadter

R.O.R wrote: »

It's the Retail Price list I was sent for the new XC90, so no issue to put it up here - PDF attached.

The petrol model is such a bargain compared to the diesel (especially for all the extra kit they add on for the T8 model) - just goes to show what a difference being a plug-in hybrid makes for VRT and motor tax!

I wonder how many they will sell. On paper, it's only a small bit more for a LOT more power and €200 less in motor tax compared to the diesel (which is probably the only reason it will sell at all knowing Ireland). Given how many SUVs are used a yummy mummy mobiles, the petrol model is a lot more sensible as it will involve a fair amount of zero emissions motoring for a lot of the XC90's buyers. And for the performance and technology fans, it's obviously a lot more interesting.

But it may well be far too radical and innovative for the average Irish buyer, who has decided he or she is having a diesel regardless of whether or not it's really needed.

The new car may well be a lot more expensive than its predecessor, but in fairness they've really fitted a lot of goodies as standard even to the entry level model. The only thing the higher trims have that you'd need is the Nappa leather (and the four zone climate control if you're buying the diesel - as the T8 gets this as standard regardless of trim level). It's rather stingy of them to charge over €1000 extra for metallic paint, though, and I'd definitely be wanting the winter pack and the parking camera (a bit stingy of them not to include these things as standard for the Inscription model to be fair).

alias no.9

the culture of deference wrote: »

looks like a cayanne and a micra got together

Given that the Micra is already the bastard child of a Grande Punto and a Mini, it's all a little inbred





Makes me want to hurl, but that might just be the colours

fmcg_scribe

captainspeed wrote: »

The petrol model is such a bargain compared to the diesel (especially for all the extra kit they add on for the T8 model) - just goes to show what a difference being a plug-in hybrid makes for VRT and motor tax!

I wonder how many they will sell. On paper, it's only a small bit more for a LOT more power and €200 less in motor tax compared to the diesel (which is probably the only reason it will sell at all knowing Ireland). Given how many SUVs are used a yummy mummy mobiles, the petrol model is a lot more sensible as it will involve a fair amount of zero emissions motoring for a lot of the XC90's buyers. And for the performance and technology fans, it's obviously a lot more interesting.

But it may well be far too radical and innovative for the average Irish buyer, who has decided he or she is having a diesel regardless of whether or not it's really needed.

The new car may well be a lot more expensive than its predecessor, but in fairness they've really fitted a lot of goodies as standard even to the entry level model. The only thing the higher trims have that you'd need is the Nappa leather (and the four zone climate control if you're buying the diesel - as the T8 gets this as standard regardless of trim level). It's rather stingy of them to charge over €1000 extra for metallic paint, though, and I'd definitely be wanting the winter pack and the parking camera (a bit stingy of them not to include these things as standard for the Inscription model to be fair).

Outgoing XC90 was in production for about 12 years, so there might be pent-up demand from loyal XC90 owners for the new model and that might drive sales for the first two years after launch.

However, sales of the outgoing XC90 levelled off a lot during the recent recession:
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/motors/2012/01/04/sales-figures-for-2011-reveal-irelands-favourite-cars/

The XC60 was selling better in Ireland during that period and that trend might continue.

It seems that Volvo will be not be offering discounts on the new XC90:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/volvo-xc90-discounts-end/1309137

The outgoing XC90 was often discounted by up to 30% in the UK, at least.

Volvo is taking a risk by trying to move the new XC90 "upmarket" to compete against the X5, M class, and Q7. Although the outgoing XC90 received a lot of of praise at launch for its practicality, safety features, and overall build quality and durability, it was poor on fuel economy and performance.

Further, Volvo's premium badge status when measured against the Germans is questionable - for some time, Volvo has been accused of charging premium prices for non-premium cars. Perhaps the new XC90 will buck that trend.

The first reviews of the new car could be interesting.

carsfan

R.O.R. thanks for putting up the Volvo spec. sheet.

It makes interesting reading.
The T8 engine looks very tempting and the price differential is much smaller here than in other markets when you take into account the grants/rebates, but would it be a depreciation disaster in Ireland as not a diesel?

I saw on completecar.i.e a first review of the new Mondeo where they only give it 3.5/5 stars. This is not the first middling review I have seen of it.
I can't remember when I saw a review of a modern Ford that didn't heap praise on the driving experience and I think it really should get 5 stars if it wants to compete against passat etc. that are perceived as more posh. Could be a hard sell unless heavily discounted.

micks_address

Slightly off topic but still no word on a new Accord from Honda - I was chatting someone in Honda Ireland the other day and he says they are putting a 160bhp version of the 1.6 earthdreams diesel engine in the CRV next year, and this engine will be used in a new Accord to be released in 2016...

might tally up with this

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/09/hondas-2015-cr-v-facelift-for-europe.html

PurvesGrundy

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

The outgoing XC90 was often discounted by up to 30% in the UK, at least.

Only by the time it was 7-8 years old. At launch, the model was in some cases trading for above list price and had a twelve month waiting list there.

Volvo is taking a risk by trying to move the new XC90 "upmarket" to compete against the X5, M class, and Q7. Although the outgoing XC90 received a lot of of praise at launch for its practicality, safety features, and overall build quality and durability, it was poor on fuel economy and performance.

The original model cost at least 65k when it was launched in 2003, so was pitched upmarket from the outset. It sold by the bucket load and if that is not an acid test for the price level at which the car can compete then what is.

Bear in mind also that when the XC90 was launched in 2003 its competitors were the quite awful first generation Merc M-Class and the outdated Discovery II. Only the BMW X5 of the time you could say were any better driving.

Further, Volvo's premium badge status when measured against the Germans is questionable - for some time, Volvo has been accused of charging premium prices for non-premium cars. Perhaps the new XC90 will buck that trend.

What dictates 'premium' anyway; the grade of interior plastic?

Volvo have always been a 'cut above brand' synonymous with quality and have merely been left behind in the premium race in recent years as well as through factors such as Audi's massive growth absorbing a lot of their customers. Their main problem these days I would say is image and a lack of awareness by customers of present product offering. If they have gotten this XC90 right and make a decent fist of next year's S80 replacement, there is a very good chance of them being put back on the map again.

sunnysoutheast

micks_address wrote: »

Slightly off topic but still no word on a new Accord from Honda - I was chatting someone in Honda Ireland the other day and he says they are putting a 160bhp version of the 1.6 earthdreams diesel engine in the CRV next year, and this engine will be used in a new Accord to be released in 2016...

might tally up with this

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/09/hondas-2015-cr-v-facelift-for-europe.html

Wonder if the 1.6 9-speed auto will be 4WD? Will be buying one if so

9 gears!!! our current one has 3+o/d!!

Zubeneschamali

micks_address wrote: »

Slightly off topic but still no word on a new Accord from Honda l

i thought the Accord for Europe was getting the axe, along with the Avensis.

BdaraB

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

i thought the Accord for Europe was getting the axe, along with the Avensis.

The Avensis will be getting a substantial facelift in a year or two which is rumoured to be its last generation while the Accord was cancelled years ago and if there is another generation it won't be European only more likely a modified version of the American or Chinese versions

fmcg_scribe

BdaraB wrote: »

The Avensis will be getting a substantial facelift in a year or two which is rumoured to be its last generation while the Accord was cancelled years ago and if there is another generation it won't be European only more likely a modified version of the American or Chinese versions

I haven't seen anything to confirm that the Accord has been cancelled but the car's future does look unclear, in Europe at least.

For some time, Honda has managed the lifecycle of the car differently across the Americas, Europe, and Australasia and there have been regional differences within each of those regions.

There will definitely be a 2015 Accord in some parts of the world.

There is a Facebook campaign to bring the Acura TLX to Europe and make it the "new" Accord:
https://www.facebook.com/neweurohondaaccord

I know that Nissan is ramping up its plans for its Infiniti brand in Europe but I don't know whether Honda has similar plans for its Acura brand but it seems that the continuing flat car sales figures across Europe generally are probably delaying the brand's introduction here:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130527/OEM/305279977/acura-eyes-emerging-markets

Honda does not seem to be talking about the Accord at the Paris motor show:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/88800/honda-doesnt-have-a-class-topper-could-its-new-range-change-that
http://world.honda.com/news/2014/4141002Paris-Motor-Show/

Perhaps the Accord does not have a long-term future in Europe. Reviews of the car in recent years have been lukewarm at best and there seems to be a view in the UK motoring press that all of the Accord's rivals have left it behind.

Equally, the family car segment is under threat from compact exec cars and from SUVs, so Honda might not want to fight those battles with the Accord.

micks_address

I was talking to a Honda Dealer last week re the Accord and i mentioned how it was 08 since the last version was introduced and it was way to long between introducing a new version... he said back in the 80's honda had ten years between releasing a new version so he reckoned there will be another one...

The European Accord and US Accord are both sold in Austraila.. which is a bit odd...

Hard to justidy the 42k price of a Top spec accord against cars like a top spec Skoda superb coming in at 37k... 170bhp.. with everything on it

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

I haven't seen anything to confirm that the Accord has been cancelled but the car's future does look unclear, in Europe at least.

For some time, Honda has managed the lifecycle of the car differently across the Americas, Europe, and Australasia and there have been regional differences within each of those regions.

There will definitely be a 2015 Accord in some parts of the world.

There is a Facebook campaign to bring the Acura TLX to Europe and make it the "new" Accord:
https://www.facebook.com/neweurohondaaccord

I know that Nissan is ramping up its plans for its Infiniti brand in Europe but I don't know whether Honda has similar plans for its Acura brand but it seems that the continuing flat car sales figures across Europe generally are probably delaying the brand's introduction here:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130527/OEM/305279977/acura-eyes-emerging-markets

Honda does not seem to be talking about the Accord at the Paris motor show:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/88800/honda-doesnt-have-a-class-topper-could-its-new-range-change-that
http://world.honda.com/news/2014/4141002Paris-Motor-Show/

Perhaps the Accord does not have a long-term future in Europe. Reviews of the car in recent years have been lukewarm at best and there seems to be a view in the UK motoring press that all of the Accord's rivals have left it behind.

Equally, the family car segment is under threat from compact exec cars and from SUVs, so Honda might not want to fight those battles with the Accord.

fmcg_scribe

micks_address wrote: »

I was talking to a Honda Dealer last week re the Accord and i mentioned how it was 08 since the last version was introduced and it was way to long between introducing a new version... he said back in the 80's honda had ten years between releasing a new version so he reckoned there will be another one...

The European Accord and US Accord are both sold in Austraila.. which is a bit odd...

Hard to justidy the 42k price of a Top spec accord against cars like a top spec Skoda superb coming in at 37k... 170bhp.. with everything on it

The future of the "Honda Accord Euro" sold "Down Under" is unclear:
http://www.caradvice.com.au/280833/honda-accord-euro-future-still-unclear-for-medium-car/
http://www.caradvice.com.au/286475/honda-accord-euro-decision-on-future-due-within-months/

In Europe at least, Honda launched eight versions of the Accord within about 32 years, so the model has definitely not followed the seven year lifecycle used by many volume car makers, especially German ones.

fmcg_scribe

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

Only by the time it was 7-8 years old. At launch, the model was in some cases trading for above list price and had a twelve month waiting list there.

The original model cost at least 65k when it was launched in 2003, so was pitched upmarket from the outset. It sold by the bucket load and if that is not an acid test for the price level at which the car can compete then what is.

Bear in mind also that when the XC90 was launched in 2003 its competitors were the quite awful first generation Merc M-Class and the outdated Discovery II. Only the BMW X5 of the time you could say were any better driving.

What dictates 'premium' anyway; the grade of interior plastic?

Volvo have always been a 'cut above brand' synonymous with quality and have merely been left behind in the premium race in recent years as well as through factors such as Audi's massive growth absorbing a lot of their customers. Their main problem these days I would say is image and a lack of awareness by customers of present product offering. If they have gotten this XC90 right and make a decent fist of next year's S80 replacement, there is a very good chance of them being put back on the map again.

Agree that outgoing XC90 had a waiting list in Ireland and many other countries for, say, most of the first three years after it was launched. However, that must be put into context:

• At launch, Volvo probably underpriced the car - that's the general view in the motoring press and probably in the motor trade too. List prices were raised significatly within two years of launch but of course that did nothing to dampen demand.
• 10-12 years ago, the Irish economy was very different from how it is today - back then, many Irish car buyers "felt" sufficiently properous to splash the cash on a new luxury or premium SUV, so the more people who felt like that, the more likely that is that waiting lists would grow and that speculators could trouser decent profits.
• 10-12 years ago, the BMW X5 and I presume the M Class and Lexus RX too also had waiting lists in Ireland and elsewhere.
• Around the same time, many other more bog standard cars popular in Ireland also has waiting lists, for the example, the second generation Toyota Avensis.

The point that I'm making here is that the waiting lists in Ireland 10 years ago for the outgoing XC90 are not as sigificant as you seem to be suggesting. Think of it as follows: if most of the students who take an exam get an "A", how do you establish who's the best?

Agree that the initial price of the outgoing XC90 in Ireland was around the same as the likes of some X5 and M class models. However, just because the XC90 was priced similarly did not mean that the XC90 was perceived similarly especially when it came to residual values after the first three years onwards.

Perhaps somebody who has bought and sold a few XC90s can comment on this but even allowing for the deflation in Ireland over the last several years and the move to CO2 emissions for VRT calculations, the price new of the outgoing XC90 has reduced a lot:

• 2014 recommended retail prices (source: http://www.volvocars.com/ie/all-cars/documents/xc90pricelist.pdf, January 2014): D4 FWD SE Geartronic €49,995; D5 AWD SE Geartronic €54,995.
• 2003 list prices (source: SIMI spreadsheet from 2003): T6 Geartronic €67,900; D5 €59,500.

My point here is that the outgoing XC90 has not been able command the same price new that it used to but I suppose that that was inevitavble when the lifecycle of the car was extended to 12 years. It's no wonder that high discounts were needed in some countries for the last few years.

Agree that outgoing XC90 sold very well in Ireland for the first couple of years after launch but it's not accurate to say that it sold by the "bucket load" - it was eclipsed by its premium rivals, notably the BMW X5.

The proof lies in interntational production and sales data:

• By the time that the outgoing XC90 ceased production last July, Volvo was reporting 636,000 units produced (see https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressreleases/147889/end-of-an-era-as-swedish-production-of-volvo-xc90-stops-after-12-years) but the yearly breakown is more interesting: http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/history/xc90_stats_search.php
• The total production figure for the X5 from 1999 to 2013 (the first two generations) is 1,309,819 - the yearly breakdown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X5

It's obvious from the data that the outgoing XC90's best year for sales was 2003/2004. The third generation X5 has a waiting list in many countries. Although the new XC90 has a waiting list, I'm not sure that there will still be a waiting list for it in, say, two or three years time.

Agree that the term "premium" is vague and fuzzy but perhaps it's easier to define the term by contrasting it with "luxury", for example:
http://branduniq.com/2013/luxury-branding-the-difference-between-premium-and-luxury/

I suspect that opinions vary among car buyers and people in the motor trade about whether Volvo is truly a premium brand capable of competing against its close European rivals. For me personally, the exterior designs of Volvo's cars in recent years have left me cold and I'm not sure that car safety features is a sufficiently good selling point these days - most new cars achieve 4 and 5 stars in EuroNCAP tests.

Perhaps the new XC90 will mark a positive step change for Volvo and help to change perceptions of the brand. However, I remain sceptical about pricing the new car to match its German rivals. We'll know more when the first reviews are published.

carsfan

I would think the reason the XC90 reduced in price so much and was discounted so heavily in the UK is down to the fact that it was left on sale so long and had to compete against more modern rivals in that time.
12 years is an eternity in terms of technology and emissions and it was substantially unchanged due to, I presume a lack of finances in Volvo.
I don't know if they will discount this new model here but I think I read they are very confident of selling 2 or 3 hundred a year in Ireland which is quite a few I think for our market. Time will tell...

Leonard Hofstadter

I could see them selling quite a few next year - there must be some amount of pent up demand because of the fact that they've been selling the same car since 2002.

There's an upturn in the economy and this year is predicted to be the best year since 2008, with next year likely to be even better.

I agree the pricing of the diesel is somewhat ambitious, but bear in mind that the '1927' launch models sold out in just two days - and they were even more expensive. The hybrid T8 model is a bargain for what you're getting in return.

It's the smart choice, but whether it has any appeal in diesel obsessed and very conservative Ireland, is a scéal eile as they say.

PurvesGrundy

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agree that outgoing XC90 had a waiting list in Ireland and many other countries for, say, most of the first three years after it was launched. However, that must be put into context:

• At launch, Volvo probably underpriced the car - that's the general view in the motoring press and probably in the motor trade too. List prices were raised significatly within two years of launch but of course that did nothing to dampen demand.

Under-priced the car? I don't think so.

I'd also like to find out your source that they 'hiked' the price after two years. They introduced more expensive versions such as the Executive, sure, but they never raised the price.

10-12 years ago, the BMW X5 and I presume the M Class and Lexus RX too also had waiting lists in Ireland and elsewhere.

Not at nearly a year they didn't.

Around the same time, many other more bog standard cars popular in Ireland also has waiting lists, for the example, the second generation Toyota Avensis.

Again, I think a 12 month waiting list for an Avensis is pretty much unheard of.

The point that I'm making here is that the waiting lists in Ireland 10 years ago for the outgoing XC90 are not as sigificant as you seem to be suggesting. Think of it as follows: if most of the students who take an exam get an "A", how do you establish who's the best?

I wasn't referring to just the Irish market. I meant it sold by the bucket load globally and initially they massively underestimated demand for the car, hence the long waiting lists.

Agree that the initial price of the outgoing XC90 in Ireland was around the same as the likes of some X5 and M class models.

Did you not just say that they underpriced the car?

However, just because the XC90 was priced similarly did not mean that the XC90 was perceived similarly especially when it came to residual values after the first three years onwards.

Do you have any factual info that the XC90 depreciated heavily or are you just going by that old chestnut that all Volvo's drop like a stone? Compared to the likes of the larger saloons, I don't think XC90 depreciation was ever as severe. To this day, they remain a good seller secondhand and there have been a great quantity of 2010 examples imported from the UK in recent years to make-up for the shortage of Irish ones.

My point here is that the outgoing XC90 has not been able command the same price new that it used to but I suppose that that was inevitavble when the lifecycle of the car was extended to 12 years.

I personally think that over 50k is an impressive price for a product that uses an engine that is two generations old and a platform that can trace its way back to the 1999 S80.

carsfan

To my eyes, the new Volvo looks every bit as premium as a BMW X5, Merc ML or Audi Q7. It also looks alot more advanced on the inside. Indeed to somea Volvo is less in your face and more socially acceptable.
Would have to agree with Purves Grundy that for a model as ancient as it was, the outgoing model did very well.
I would wonder if a lack of big capacity engines will hinder it in other markets. Not Ireland of course where a 2 litre diesel is considered the height of decadence by many.

Tragedy

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, the Fusion was designed for Ford in the USA, where Ford make cheap crap. Now the new Mondeo is based on it, because Ford didn't have the money to build a proper car for Europe.

So it'll be crap. The reviews will say "Not as sharp as it's predecessor" or "Not as involving to drive as the MKIV" or whatever, but in 10 years, everyone will say "Pity that Ford had to sell that American crap in Europe because they were broke".

You do like to talk nonsense don't you?

Ford made $8billion profit in 2013.
$6billion in 2012
$6.2 billion in 2011
$6.6 billion in 2010

Yet you talk about a broke Ford trying to pedal any auld ****e on the Europeans to save money.

Ford want to cut costs by having a global car strategy, instead of having separate cars for each territory. This is something European manufacturers do already, but you have a huge issue with Ford doing it for some reason?

The Focus and the Fiesta are both global Fords, and the Mondeo is simply the next iteration of such.