New Government Report spells disaster for on-shore Wind Energy

Paul Thomas Rowland

Scofflaw wrote: »

Banned for a day for a persistently caustic, dismissive, and generally uncivil approach to the discussion.

moderately,
Scofflaw

My, how very fair minded of you, Moderator Scofflaw.

...

Luckily for Oppenheimer1, he has you, Moderator Scofflaw, riding shotgun for him. I take him on, and you take me out. Is he your buddy? Do you share his view that this thread is Conspiracy Theory? Do you, or your family/friends work for the state criminals running the Owenniny fraud? If you have an interest please declare it.

This thread probably does not matter a damn for >95% of readers but 116 monster turbines, owned by the state, in our backyard is a massive issue for my community. Forgive me if I get a little angry when I see an idiot like the DeliPoisoner piss all over the thread.

I would be perfectly happy if you were to delete the rubbish posted by the DeliPoisoner and my replies. That may improve the tone to your liking?

[MOD]Unsurprisingly, perhaps, banned for a week. Some of more unpleasant bits of the post deleted.[/MOD]

Paul Thomas Rowland

Champagne flows at Mount Lucas

I doubt any of the locals were drinking Champagne.

fclauson

LiamMayo wrote: »

about €15000 a day in community gain. over 36 years, maybe €500m? and communities in the midland get zilch.

Or to look at it another way each house in the country (there are around 1.65 M from CSO stats) will pay just under 1 cent/day (or €3.42 per year) to the kind folks near this monstrosity for hosting something which generates electricity 35% (depending on which wind figure you use) of the time and then pay additional monies via PSO level to cover other power stations to cover the rest of the time

Has anyone actually done the maths on this - no - that's why Pat Swords is in court this week arguing that no NREP = illegal REFIT payments
case number 2013/4122 P

Dermot McDonnell

fclauson wrote: »

... something which generates electricity 35% (depending on which wind figure you use) of the time ....

From the OPL planning application.

It is expected that the wind farm will have an availability of about 98%, i.e. it will be capable of operation for 98% of the time. Actual operation will be determined by the wind conditions experienced. However, on average, turbines turn and therefore produce electricity for about 80 - 85% of the time. The output of the wind turbines will depend upon the wind regime but a capacity factor of around 33% is expected. This means that over the course of a year each turbine would produce 33% of the amount it could theoretically produce if it was working at maximum output at all times throughout the year.

The 80-85% figure also tells you that wind speeds are within the cut-in, and cut-out, speeds, 80-85% of the time.

Under the Mayo Council policy, community funds are available throughout Mayo, but concentrated on those close to infrastructure, including grid. It should be recalled that 120km of really ugly 400kV line is proposed, from Cluddaun to Flagford outside Carrick on Shannon, Leitrim.

We have a commission considering the viability of undergrounding high voltage grid at the moment, I wonder which wind atlas they are using in deciding what wind farms can afford to pay?

Has anyone actually done the maths on this - no - that's why Pat Swords is in court this week arguing that no NREP = illegal REFIT payments
case number 2013/4122 P

Best of luck to him. It's a racket.

Keep an eye out for this one too:

CT7/2014 BORD NA MONA PLC -V- THE PROPERTY REGISTRATION AUTHORITY & OTHERS

Fabo

The capacity factor in Scotland is 30% and Scotland has equal to or higher wind speeds than Ireland

http://theconversation.com/its-advantage-scotland-when-it-comes-to-wind-power-15900

so I think the OP is wrong on this.

The capacity factor given in Eirgrids recent Capacity Statement is overstated by 2% . It gives 30% but when you do the calculations yourself (using SEAI figures) it was actually 28%.

So there are a lot of overstated CFs out there..

Dermot McDonnell

Fabo wrote: »

The capacity factor in Scotland is 30% ...

By happy co-incidence, Scotland had a metered capacity factor of precisely 30% in the 7 year UK DTI survey, published earlier in this thread. Northern Ireland had a metered capacity factor of 36% over the same period. That's 20% extra per unit MW. That's the reality.

Dermot McDonnell

Fabo wrote: »

....The capacity factor given in Eirgrids recent Capacity Statement is overstated by 2%....

Did you remove downtime? Capacity factor, as correctly defined by ESB/BnM in their planning application, is actual annual yield over potential annual yield. There is no potential yield when the turbine is switched off for maintenance. As you can see the ESB/BnM availability is 98%, accounting for the 2% difference you noted. The same correction is done for all types of generation.

I greatly appreciate your contribution. Not many people are willing to do the math.

fclauson

Dermot McDonnell wrote: »

Not many people are willing to do the math.

Least of all our illustrious leaders !!

valamhic

Now lets get a few things clear. 1) I am nor saying the official capacity figures are low, they are high, without a doubt. I am saying that the someone them is lying. Being untruthful. beinf careless, Overstating it or wharever you call it. 2) The capacity factor of a wind farm can only be measured in one way. viz: total mwh hours produced over a continuous period of 8760 hours /capacity of generator entity x 8760 all multiplied by 100 so say a 1 mw turbine is measured for one year. and gave 2000 mwh,

2000/(1x8760)x 100 = 22.83% I measured wind speed at Kingscourt for 2008 and 2009 and found my resusts were roughly similar to met eireann's wind speed record 1971 - 2001 , I got a figure of 24.1% Digest of UK Energy Supply gave the British figure @ 26.5% in 2006 and that included Scotland. Remember all of Britain north of Hull has equal or better wind speeds than all of Ireland except a thin strip on the Atlantic coast.

Remember to get a 30% capacity factor in simple terms the wind would need to blow @33 mph for 30% of the time. Thats 109 days. So there would be a gale warning and structural damage for three and a half months of every year, I appreciete it is averaged, but still.

LiamMayo

my bro is a postgrad in nuig. he found a paper

Measure-Correlate-Predict Methods: Case Studies and Software Implementation

includes a case study of cronalagh wind farm donegal with 5 years wind and production info. you need to google it. icannot post link.

Head The Wall

Birdnuts wrote: »

Eddie O' Connor claims his Mainstream company is worth 400M euros - but employs less than 100 people As for powering 45k homes. Yet more more spin given winds unreliability, especially at times of peak demand.

Is there some rule or law somewhere that states the more money you invest then the more jobs you create?

There isn't so stop talking rubbish, it's obviously not labour intensive

Birdnuts

Head The Wall wrote: »

Is there some rule or law somewhere that states the more money you invest then the more jobs you create?

There isn't so stop talking rubbish, it's obviously not labour intensive

Then why does the IWEA talk up the number of jobs wind energy creates. Rubbish indeed!!

Head The Wall

My comment isn't about the IWEA, it's about you and the other poster

Dermot McDonnell

LiamMayo wrote: »

my bro is a postgrad in nuig. he found a paper

Measure-Correlate-Predict Methods: Case Studies and Software Implementation

includes a case study of cronalagh wind farm donegal with 5 years wind and production info.

Thank you for this. I had not spotted it. They have a second study, both are attached. I will have more time at the weekend to go through them in detail. Meanwhile:

LiamMayo

Cronalaght has a 46% capacity factor then, electricity yield per megawatt is 39% more than claimed for oweninny.

Dermot McDonnell

Indo story:
Semi-state wind farm promises speedy returns through subsidies.
Subsidies mean Bord na Mona's Kildare wind farm will recoup its €115m set-up costs in eight years.

Launching the country's largest ever wind farm this week, on isolated bogland at Mountlucas in Kildare, the head of the company's energy generation division said he expected returns "in the high teens".

"This project is looking at double digit returns over the course of its lifetime... by year seven or eight it should have paid for itself," John Reilly said.

Nothing wrong with the wind resource down the midlands, if would seem. If Mount Lucas wind farm will pay for itself through subsidies in 7 or 8 years, for the remaining 22 or 23 years production will be nearest thing to pure profit since sms was invented. Naturally, the locals are getting nothing in terms of Community Benefit over that 30 year period. In the UK, "recommended community benefit package" is "£5,000/MW/year for the lifetime of the windfarm."

Irish Times Story:
Bord na Mona may get caught in storm over windfarms.

...As well as Mount Lucas, BnM also has windfarm investments at Bruckana in Offaly and Bellacorick in Mayo. It is planning a huge windfarm for 2017 at Oweninny in Mayo, in conjunction with ESB....

A rare mention for Oweninny in the National media. Perhaps BnM and ESB are already caught in a storm, we shall know soon enough.

Paul Thomas Rowland

Dermot McDonnell wrote: »

Keep an eye out for this one too:

CT7/2014 BORD NA MONA PLC -V- THE PROPERTY REGISTRATION AUTHORITY & OTHERS

What is that case about? It is not listed on courts.ie but these are

SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2015/2 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2015/50 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2015/92 JR
CARROLL & ORS -V- AN BORD PLEANALA 2014/475 JR
GRACE & ANOR -V- AN BORD PLEANALA 2014/533 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA 2014/686 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2014/784 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2014/789 JR

Peter Sweetman has been busy. Anything to do with Cluddaun and Oweninny?

Dermot McDonnell

CT7/2014 BORD NA MÓNA -V- PRA AND OTHERS

Paul Thomas Rowland wrote: »

What is that case about?

Bord na Mona decided during the Oral Hearings to sue the Property Registration Authority, the Land Commission and local families with grazing rights to Oweninny. The aim of their lawsuit is to set aside the grazing rights the local families have enjoyed at Oweninny for generations.

Although the Land Commission granted the grazing rights decades ago, and the PRAI registered those rights on the land folios of the locals, the State respondents are not defending the BnM law suit, leaving the local families to fight using their own meager resources.

I wonder if PRAI and Land Commission would decline to defend their decisions, and acts, if a private company had sued, rather than a semi-state? The State does not stand in the way of the State.

Naturally, the semi-states want Oweninny Power Limited completely unencumbered so that they can dispose of it with ease to complete their multi billion euro theft of our natural resources at Oweninny/Cluddaun.

It is not the first time they have disposed of assets in secret, 500 acres of virgin Oweninny ground was sold to a partner in their lawyers via a nominee in Liechtenstein, a story covered by The Phoenix. When asked about the sale, BnM simply lied, claiming the lands were sold to an Irish Company. They admitted selling them to a Leichtenstein "business man" when presented with a copy of the legal instrument. That "business man" sold the land to the partner in BnMs lawyers a few months later, at a loss.

Bord na Móna statement regarding sale of land at Corvoderry, Co Mayo - 23rd February 2012
*
Bord na Móna acquired c.5,000 hectares by compulsory purchase order
(CPO) in North Mayo in the early 1950's. The board acquired the full
freehold title of the property, including the turbury and all other such
rights to the lands. This acquisition also included an area of land at
Corvoderry.

In 1989 an agreement was signed, as part of a group wide rationalisation
process, to sell 190 hectares of the company's landholding at
Corvoderry, an elevated area unsuitable to peat harvesting, to 'Golden
Glow Ltd.'. Under the terms of the sale agreement, a right of way,
facilitating access to the property, was granted by Bord na Móna to the
purchaser. The land was purchased subject to it being grant aided for
afforestation. The site was grant aided and the contracts for sale were
completed in 1992. The property was subsequently afforested.

Given that the freehold title of the lands in question has not been held
by Bord na Móna for thirty years, the company has no responsibility for
any land use proposed by the current owners of the lands.

*Ends
*Bord na Móna statement regarding sale of land at Corvoderry, Co Mayo (25th April, 2012)

*During the period covering the 1989 sale of lands at Corvoderry, Co Mayo, Bord na Mona judged matters concerning the disposal of individual properties on the merits of each sale.

Accordingly, issues such as the method of sale and the level of advertisement of the sale, were determined by the company on a case by case basis. These matters were determined with due regard to all of the company's corporate responsibilities to it's shareholder.

Lastly, we can also confirm that the land was transferred to Mr. Norman Schadler in 1992.

*Ends

SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2015/2 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2015/50 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2015/92 JR
CARROLL & ORS -V- AN BORD PLEANALA 2014/475 JR
GRACE & ANOR -V- AN BORD PLEANALA 2014/533 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA 2014/686 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2014/784 JR
SWEETMAN -V- AN BORD PLEANALA & ORS 2014/789 JR

Peter Sweetman has been busy. Anything to do with Cluddaun and Oweninny?

My, he has indeed been very busy. Thank you for this information. I shall enquire.

fclauson

I know Peter Sweetman - do a google on him - he is a litigious so and so around environmental matters. He just thinks things should be done right and takes state bodies to court if they do not

example
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/major-setback-for-corrib-pipeline-as-license-quashed-29662596.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/energy-people-peter-sweetman-objector-1.2114488

He made Shell move their gas pipeline because it has a 5km "kill zone" if there was a leak. Allegedly cost shell in excess of $1B

If you are in the environmental wrong you do not want to be in court against him!!!!!

Dermot McDonnell

fclauson wrote: »

I know Peter Sweetman - do a google on him - he is a litigious so and so around environmental matters..
If you are in the environmental wrong you do not want to be in court against him!!!!!

I had the pleasure of meeting Peter Sweetman during the six weeks of oral hearings into Oweninny/Cluddaun. He did an absolutely outstanding job, along with the Farrell brothers, representing the Moy Valley/Moygownagh action groups at the hearings. The deference shown him by the planners and lawyers spoke for itself. He wins in the Court and I am certain Oweninny/Cluddaun will end up in Court, regardless of what Bord Pleanála decide, as BnM already have a planning permission from Mayo Council for 180 smaller turbines at Oweninny. That permission must die too to ensure that institutionalised crime are left empty handed.

Paul Thomas Rowland

Dermot McDonnell wrote: »

CT7/2014 BORD NA MÓNA -V- PRA AND OTHERS



Bord na Mona decided during the Oral Hearings to sue the Property Registration Authority, the Land Commission and local families with grazing rights to Oweninny. The aim of their lawsuit is to set aside the grazing rights the local families have enjoyed at Oweninny for generations...

I found the Phoenix story.

So Bord na Mona are suing the Corvodera families whose Oweninny lands they seized under the Turf Acts. 500 acres of that land, untouched for any purpose by BnM, was sold to an intermediary in Liechtenstein who then passed it on, at a loss, to a partner in the law firm that did the seizures for BnM. What a neat little scam?

Authorities with CPO power cannot use those powers to transfer property from one private citizen to another private citizen. BnM are a bunch of low life hoods.

Satriale

Paul Thomas Rowland wrote: »

I found the Phoenix story.

So Bord na Mona are suing the Corvodera families whose Oweninny lands they seized under the Turf Acts. 500 acres of that land, untouched for any purpose by BnM, was sold to an intermediary in Liechtenstein who then passed it on, at a loss, to a partner in the law firm that did the seizures for BnM. What a neat little scam?

Authorities with CPO power cannot use those powers to transfer property from one private citizen to another private citizen. BnM are a bunch of low life hoods.

Can you link? I remember reading it before but i cant find it now.

Paul Thomas Rowland

Satriale wrote: »

Can you link? I remember reading it before but i cant find it now.

See this too. http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=20620

Phoenix piece attached.

LiamMayo

it was pointed out to me in nuig yesterday that if we lost 50% of wind power at 100m above ground we could not possibly reach our 2020 target of 40% of our electricity from renewable resources and we would be facing huge fines. i see no news about that.

did you write to bord pleanala warning them about the new wind atlas. what did they say.

their mission statement from their website

"To play our part as an independent national body in an impartial, efficient and open manner, to ensure that physical development and major infrastructure projects in Ireland respect the principles of sustainable development, including the protection of the environment."

Dermot McDonnell

LiamMayo wrote: »

it was pointed out to me in nuig yesterday that if we lost 50% of wind power at 100m above ground we could not possibly reach our 2020 target of 40% of our electricity from renewable resources and we would be facing huge fines.

Quite right. The wind resource has gone nowhere. The official Govt document for Planning Authorities, the new Wind Atlas, shows a 50% fall in mean wind power density against the previous version. This makes wind farms appear far less valuable and profitable. Thus the State and its business interests avoid any honest calculation of Community Benefit Contributions, for example, and funnels the wealth of these resources to a very privileged few.

did you write to bord pleanala warning them about the new wind atlas. what did they say.

No further information can be provided to the Board. Submissions have closed, that's the law.

Mayo County Council had a similar problem. MCC correctly reported the €10,000/MW Community Benefit Contribution unanimously recommended by Councillors in their Oweninny submission. However, in their Cluddaun submission they reported €2,500/MW. When challenged, MCC executive claimed that the €10,000/MW decided unanimously by Councillors related to a different agenda item, taken hours earlier in the same meeting. You can listen to the County Secretary say it never happened here and the actual proposal by Cllr Michael Kilcoyne, seconded by Cllr Eddie Staunton here.

Bord Pleanala had two conflicting Community Benefit recommendations from MCC in respect of wind farms using identical turbine technology, a situation that would suit ESB/BnM/Coillte - The State - just fine.

I obtained the MCC meetings audio under FoI Acts and made a complaint to the Ombudman against senior executives of MCC. At which point, MCC agreed to contact An Bord Pleanąla to notify them of their "error". However, the MCC letter to the Bord was returned unopened. The issue was resolved when the Chief Planner of MCC gave accurate evidence at the Oral Hearings in respect of the decisions of the elected members.

fclauson

Facts - nasty smelly things we can ruin a decent story

well done Dermot - keep up the good work

Paul Thomas Rowland

Paul Thomas Rowland wrote: »

See this too. http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=20620

Phoenix piece attached.

I met a couple of the locals at the weekend. They emailed the original Phoenix story about the 500 acres transferred in secret by BnM to their lawyers via the nominee in Leichtenstein. I also saw the instrument of sale. It was signed by "Doctor" Eddie O'Connor, well know irish wind energy trillionaire, who was then BnM CEO. More interesting was the date of the sale, 4 days after the neighbouring Bellacorick wind farm went operational. That wind farm got a 70% EU grant and the tender was awarded to BnM after a Dept of Energy "competition" where the Gov't were advised by a panel of external "experts". No prises for guessing...............................

LiamMayo

just got SMS from nuig physics postdoc. the new wind atlas is dead. I am not joking. it is gone from seai web site with no explanation n has been replaced by the old wind atlas. how about that?

Paul Thomas Rowland

LiamMayo wrote: »

just got SMS from nuig physics postdoc. the new wind atlas is dead. I am not joking. it is gone from seai web site with no explanation n has been replaced by the old wind atlas. how about that?

I didnt believe it but you are dead on. That's a complete shocker. Are these wind farms finally dead? Any news from Bord Pleanala?

Dermot McDonnell

According to the SEAI website:

The Wind Atlas 2013 will be viewable on-line when software upgrades have been completed.