Inside Probation RTÉ 1 Monday 6th & 13th Oct 9.35pm

Lapin

Over 10,000 convicted criminals out there being assessed as to whether they are safe to live among ordinary decent folk or be banged up with the tougher nuts inside.

Which of them should be given put away for their own good and which of those featured in the documentary deserve their chance to live freely with the rest of us?

Will any of our regular After Hours contributers feature in the programmes?

My name is URL

Did I hear that right. If a violent sex offender on probation can't have accommodation found for them after been kicked out of a hostel, the council pays for them to stay at a private residence and the person renting out the room has no idea of the criminal history of the person staying? WTF!

JONJO THE MISER

A sex offender and violent thug has been kicked out of his place, and no hostel will take him, but the council have a room for him in a private house and they havent told the owner of the house about his crime:eek:
Surely this cant be right and they can be held accountable if something happens.

Holsten

The guy just said the last time that happened he robbed someone with a knife!

Which is better? In a house where they know he is there or sleeping on the streets robbing people at knifepoint?

My name is URL

Holsten wrote: »

The guy just said the last time that happened he robbed someone with a knife!

Which is better? In a house where they know he is there or sleeping on the streets robbing people at knifepoint?

If he still poses such a threat then he should never have been granted probation, surely?

We need more feckin prisons in this country. Simple as that

JONJO THE MISER

We need 3 strikes and your out, lock up the scum for life.

mfceiling

My name is URL wrote: »

Did I hear that right. If a violent sex offender on probation can't have accommodation found for them after been kicked out of a hostel, the council pays for them to stay at a private residence and the person renting out the room has no idea of the criminal history of the person staying? WTF!

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

A sex offender and violent thug has been kicked out of his place, and no hostel will take him, but the council have a room for him in a private house and they havent told the owner of the house about his crime:eek:
Surely this cant be right and they can be held accountable if something happens.

What happens he abuses the homeowners daughter/son?

The system is f*cked...

Lapin

Holsten wrote: »

The guy just said the last time that happened he robbed someone with a knife!

Which is better? In a house where they know he is there or sleeping on the streets robbing people at knifepoint?

How about an 8 X 5 foot cell in the basement of the Joy?

Lapin

Subtitles are a godsend.

castletownman

But sure building more prisons and implementating harsher sentences would go totally against the ethos that Ireland is this great charitable,christian country that believes everyone deserves a second chance.

My name is URL

castletownman wrote: »

But sure building more prisons and implementating harsher sentences would go totally against the ethos that Ireland is this great charitable,christian country that believes everyone deserves a second chance.

People do deserve a second chance, most of the time. It needs to be implemented and overseen properly though. Sending people who even prison staff and gardai know a still a threat; just to make room for the next batch, is as backwards as not giving anyone a second chance.

Holsten

Lapin wrote: »

How about an 8 X 5 foot cell in the basement of the Joy?

I'd say he had that. For however many years. Sentences end you know.....

Lapin

Holsten wrote: »

I'd say he had that. For however many years. Sentences end you know.....

Well the next time he is put up in a similar suite for noncing his own daughter, how about fitting the room out with a nice firm length of rope in advance and let him end it himself.

Mr. Incognito

I see the bleeding heart liberals are out tonight

Joes getting an early tug and a good nights sleep

The phones will be hopping tomorrow

Lapin

Why is the front page of The Star blurred out.

My name is URL

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I see the bleeding heart liberals are out tonight

Joes getting an early tug and a good nights sleep

The phones will be hopping tomorrow

Also the muppets with nothing to add but a few cheap soundbites, eh?

oceanman

Lapin wrote: »

Well the next time he is put up in a similar suite for noncing his own daughter, how about fitting the room out with a nice firm length of rope in advance and let him end it himself.

what a mature solution....

Lapin

oceanman wrote: »

what a mature solution....

He molested his own daughter for Christ sake.

I think its a perfect solution.

A ten foot length of rope is a lot cheaper and safer than giving the bastard a bottle of whiskey and a revolver. **** him.

The world is better off without scum like that.

Fr_Dougal

Probation officers seem brain dead. Did they come down in the last shower?!

Lapin

Now this poor ould divil Noel is deseving of the chance of probation.

All he did was nick two bottles of wine from the local Super Valu.

Banging him up with the murderers, terrorists, gangsters, rapists and other bastards wouldn't do anyone any good.

Holsten

He should have got a caution.

Good doc, do not envy their jobs.

neris

TheZohan wrote: »

Probation officers seem brain dead. Did they come down in the last shower?!

Have you ever heard of Joe Duffy?

Fr_Dougal

neris wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Joe Duffy?

Is he a probation officer?

Turtyturd

TheZohan wrote: »

Probation officers seem brain dead. Did they come down in the last shower?!

Based on 3 of them shown in the programme?

catallus

I wonder where the free support is for the victims of all these people's crimes.

Law14

Some comments here are unbelievable.
The chap Noel has been in and out of prison all his life, in one sense there shouldn't be any 'poor' chap.
Ok, the sex-offender been placed in a house (this is obviously not ideal at all) but it is still better than the alternative, and who would think that probation would put him in a house where there is children, that's just idiotic thinking. Did anyone pick up on the comment that sex-offenders actually have the lowest level of re-offending.
Nobody knows the back-round of anyone who commits a crime, social, economic, family or backround. everyone deserves a chance as long as they are assessed and managed.

Turtyturd

Law14 wrote: »

Some comments here are unbelievable.
The chap Noel has been in and out of prison all his life, in one sense there shouldn't be any 'poor' chap.
Ok, the sex-offender been placed in a house (this is obviously not ideal at all) but it is still better than the alternative, and who would think that probation would put him in a house where there is children, that's just idiotic thinking. Did anyone pick up on the comment that sex-offenders actually have the lowest level of re-offending.
Nobody knows the back-round of anyone who commits a crime, social, economic, family or backround. everyone deserves a chance as long as they are assessed and managed.

I'd expect there to be uproar over that tomorrow and rightly so, but the PO is in a lose/lose situation, the client spends the night on the street and commits another offence or something happens to them and they face the backlash.

Fr_Dougal

Turtyturd wrote: »

Based on 3 of them shown in the programme?

Yup, I was referring to the ones in the programme.

Lapin

TheZohan wrote: »

Is he a probation officer?

He was.

noisenotmusic

TheZohan wrote: »

Probation officers seem brain dead. Did they come down in the last shower?!

Imagine you had to deal with criminals for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Most people would be out of the job within a month.

Law14

PO is on a loose loose basis, but there was obviously work done that rte didn't show, its the typical line that follows and the red-top newspapers have a field-day on.

Lisha

oceanman wrote: »

what a mature solution....

Well it would be an effective solution that would protect the poor child.

Law14

Public are more at risk of a sexual offence from a family member or person known personally to them. thats from the rape crises center and 1-in-four.
Killings??? and vigilantes dont solve anything

Lapin

Law14 wrote: »

Did anyone pick up on the comment that sex-offenders actually have the lowest level of re-offending.

Yep. I did.

And it matters not one jot to me.

I don't want them out and about anywhere near me or any kids in the community.

I'm all for giving some people a second chance. But I draw the line at child rapists and molesters.

Giving second chances shouldn't involve taking chances where innocent kids are involved.

Lapin

Law14 wrote: »

Public are more at risk of a sexual offence from a family member or person known personally to them. thats from the rape crises center and 1-in-four.
Killings??? and vigilantes dont solve anything

I'm not advocating killing anyone or resorting vigilantesm.

I simply suggest leaving a nice firm rope in the cells of these bastards and let them dwell on their own conscience.

catallus

The low level of detection for sex-offenders is natural enough if you think about it.

Given how difficult it is to prove and convict in the first place, and also the fact that sexual offenders who prey on the weak won't often make the mistake that got them caught in the first place a second time, I'm surprised there's any measurable recidivism at all.

Law14

Lapin wrote: »

Yep. I did.

And it matters not one jot to me.

I don't want them out and about anywhere near me or any kids in the community.

I'm all for giving some people a second chance. But I draw the line at child rapists and molesters.

Giving second chances shouldn't involve taking chances where innocent kids are involved.

I agree that no one wants them living beside them, I've a son and I would be worried. but not to a point of hysteria or death penalties.
See earlier comment on the risk of been assaulted from the 1-in-4 and the rape crises centre

Law14

catallus wrote: »

The low level of detection for sex-offenders is natural enough if you think about it.

Given how difficult it is to prove and convict in the first place, and also the fact that sexual offenders who prey on the weak won't often make the mistake that got them caught in the first place a second time, I'm surprised there's any measurable recidivism at all.

That makes very little sense.
Yes, the rate reporting offences is low, but once in court the rate of getting a conviction is actually in the high 90% range. Paper reports are nothing to go by.
Every offender released now are watched.

Law14

Lapin wrote: »

I'm not advocating killing anyone or resorting vigilantesm.

I simply suggest leaving a nice firm rope in the cells of these bastards and let them dwell on their own conscience.

Same thing

Law14

I see the hounds are building up!!!!!

Turtyturd

Law14 wrote: »

That makes very little sense.
Yes, the rate reporting offences is low, but once in court the rate of getting a conviction is actually in the high 90% range. Paper reports are nothing to go by.
Every offender released now are watched.

They are also subject to assessment of their likelihood to reoffend before their release.

catallus

Law14 wrote: »

That makes very little sense.
Yes, the rate reporting offences is low, but once in court the rate of getting a conviction is actually in the high 90% range. Paper reports are nothing to go by.
Every offender released now are watched.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapists-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html

"Prosecutions are mounted against 2,910 individuals, resulting in the convictions of 1,070 rapists who committed an average of 2.3 offences each."

I don't know where you're getting a "high 90% range" from.

But what with 25 or more separate agencies in this country alone cashing in on this "rehabilitation" scam, it's obvious there's money to be made from ensuring these people are kept on the streets through mis-informing the public.

Law14

catallus wrote: »

"Prosecutions are mounted against 2,910 individuals, resulting in the convictions of 1,070 rapists who committed an average of 2.3 offences each."

I don't know where you're getting a "high 90% range" from.

But what with 25 or more separate agencies in this country alone cashing in on this "rehabilitation" scam, it's obvious there's money to be made from ensuring these people are kept on the streets through mis-informing the public.

that's not even an article on Ireland.... Where are you living???

Pumpkinseeds

Turtyturd wrote: »

They are also subject to assessment of their likelihood to reoffend before their release.

What about the case of a former client of one of the probation officers they were discussing? The guy who went to prison for rape, who then committed another rape when he got out, then went back to prison for rape and was currently awaiting trial for a rape he committed after getting out of prison after serving the second sentence for rape?

That's the sort of scumbag who shouldn't be released from prison, ever. I guarantee you that none of the people in his town/neighbourhood know that there is a serial rapist living among them. Unless guys like that have a guard following them 24 hours a day they will continue to commit rapes.


As for the sex offender who'd been thrown out of his hostel, talk about an attitude of entitlement. Demanding accommodation, automatically being put ahead of law abiding citizens, it's a disgrace that he takes priority and it's ridiculous to assume that if he's housed that he won't commit any further offences.

Paramite Pie

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I see the bleeding heart liberals are out tonight

Why is it always liberals who have 'bleeding hearts'..... my very conservative grandmother had a big ol' picture of Jesus with a bleeding heart on it... i think they called it a sacred heart or something?? Why don't we call catholic do gooders 'bleeding hearts'?

An over crowded prison is still safer than these scumbags on the streets, cram them in I say!!. But yeah, build more prisons.

smellmepower

Yeah, because warehousing vast swathes of the population in expensive prisons (instead of attempting to solve the issues that led them to crime in the first place and giving them at least a fighting chance of not re-offending) works so well in peaceful, utopian societies like America etc.

Do think that there should be a dedicated halfway house with strict conditions and monitoring for sex offenders for a certain period of time after release, until they prove they can be trusted out in society again. The situation where the convicted rapist ended up housed in a private room with a person who had no knowledge of his crime was pretty bad, and simply shouldn't happen.

Law14

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

What about the case of a former client of one of the probation officers they were discussing? The guy who went to prison for rape, who then committed another rape when he got out, then went back to prison for rape and was currently awaiting trial for a rape he committed after getting out of prison after serving the second sentence for rape?

That's the sort of scumbag who shouldn't be released from prison, ever. I guarantee you that none of the people in his town/neighbourhood know that there is a serial rapist living among them. Unless guys like that have a guard following them 24 hours a day they will continue to commit rapes.

I dont think this was actually on the show. The PO got a phone call to say that an offender he had years previous had committed another rape. I think you are getting two different people that were mentioned on the show mixed up or your mashing them into one person. The person who had committed another offence was out for a number of years.

Does anybody realise that there is massive amount of work put in by the PO and guards that this type of show would never show or see.
Also, The bad stories always get highlighted, (bad news/stories sell) for every bad story there is probably hundreds or more offenders out that just get on with their lives.

jellyboy

if it bleeds it reads ^^^

id like to see the show or newspaper reports that show people who have moved on to lead better ,fulling lives after their crimes and punishment

cloud493

Has this not been put on the RTE player? Cant find it anywhere.

Turtyturd

Law14 wrote: »

I dont think this was actually on the show. The PO got a phone call to say that an offender he had years previous had committed another rape. I think you are getting two different people that were mentioned on the show mixed up or your mashing them into one person. The person who had committed another offence was out for a number of years.

Does anybody realise that there is massive amount of work put in by the PO and guards that this type of show would never show or see.
Also, The bad stories always get highlighted, (bad news/stories sell) for every bad story there is probably hundreds or more offenders out that just get on with their lives.

Can't remember off hand but I think the latest recidivism report had a rate around 40%. So 6 out of every 10 get on fine on Probation, but it is the other 4 that everybody is interested in, and a lot of the time they are just bad referrals by Judges who will most likely reoffend no matter what.

Law14

Turtyturd wrote: »

Can't remember off hand but I think the latest recidivism report had a rate around 40%. So 6 out of every 10 get on fine on Probation, but it is the other 4 that everybody is interested in, and a lot of the time they are just bad referrals by Judges who will most likely reoffend no matter what.

That 40% rate? For what offence is that for?
The lowest recidivism rates are for murder and sexual offences which are low. The highest are for burglary which are about 80%.
I do be careful of figures been put out by some agencies because the way the calculate the data.
I work with Stats all the time and take the following:
If a person burgles 3 houses say, and then nicked. after release they may not break any law again, but they go into the recidivism figures as a repeat offender. Agencies may not state if they calculate the recidivism rate this way or once someone is released.