Inside Probation RTÉ 1 Monday 6th & 13th Oct 9.35pm

Lisha

oceanman wrote: »

what a mature solution....

Well it would be an effective solution that would protect the poor child.

Law14

Public are more at risk of a sexual offence from a family member or person known personally to them. thats from the rape crises center and 1-in-four.
Killings??? and vigilantes dont solve anything

Lapin

Law14 wrote: »

Did anyone pick up on the comment that sex-offenders actually have the lowest level of re-offending.

Yep. I did.

And it matters not one jot to me.

I don't want them out and about anywhere near me or any kids in the community.

I'm all for giving some people a second chance. But I draw the line at child rapists and molesters.

Giving second chances shouldn't involve taking chances where innocent kids are involved.

Lapin

Law14 wrote: »

Public are more at risk of a sexual offence from a family member or person known personally to them. thats from the rape crises center and 1-in-four.
Killings??? and vigilantes dont solve anything

I'm not advocating killing anyone or resorting vigilantesm.

I simply suggest leaving a nice firm rope in the cells of these bastards and let them dwell on their own conscience.

catallus

The low level of detection for sex-offenders is natural enough if you think about it.

Given how difficult it is to prove and convict in the first place, and also the fact that sexual offenders who prey on the weak won't often make the mistake that got them caught in the first place a second time, I'm surprised there's any measurable recidivism at all.

Law14

Lapin wrote: »

Yep. I did.

And it matters not one jot to me.

I don't want them out and about anywhere near me or any kids in the community.

I'm all for giving some people a second chance. But I draw the line at child rapists and molesters.

Giving second chances shouldn't involve taking chances where innocent kids are involved.

I agree that no one wants them living beside them, I've a son and I would be worried. but not to a point of hysteria or death penalties.
See earlier comment on the risk of been assaulted from the 1-in-4 and the rape crises centre

Law14

catallus wrote: »

The low level of detection for sex-offenders is natural enough if you think about it.

Given how difficult it is to prove and convict in the first place, and also the fact that sexual offenders who prey on the weak won't often make the mistake that got them caught in the first place a second time, I'm surprised there's any measurable recidivism at all.

That makes very little sense.
Yes, the rate reporting offences is low, but once in court the rate of getting a conviction is actually in the high 90% range. Paper reports are nothing to go by.
Every offender released now are watched.

Law14

Lapin wrote: »

I'm not advocating killing anyone or resorting vigilantesm.

I simply suggest leaving a nice firm rope in the cells of these bastards and let them dwell on their own conscience.

Same thing

Law14

I see the hounds are building up!!!!!

Turtyturd

Law14 wrote: »

That makes very little sense.
Yes, the rate reporting offences is low, but once in court the rate of getting a conviction is actually in the high 90% range. Paper reports are nothing to go by.
Every offender released now are watched.

They are also subject to assessment of their likelihood to reoffend before their release.

catallus

Law14 wrote: »

That makes very little sense.
Yes, the rate reporting offences is low, but once in court the rate of getting a conviction is actually in the high 90% range. Paper reports are nothing to go by.
Every offender released now are watched.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/100000-assaults-1000-rapists-sentenced-shockingly-low-conviction-rates-revealed-8446058.html

"Prosecutions are mounted against 2,910 individuals, resulting in the convictions of 1,070 rapists who committed an average of 2.3 offences each."

I don't know where you're getting a "high 90% range" from.

But what with 25 or more separate agencies in this country alone cashing in on this "rehabilitation" scam, it's obvious there's money to be made from ensuring these people are kept on the streets through mis-informing the public.

Law14

catallus wrote: »

"Prosecutions are mounted against 2,910 individuals, resulting in the convictions of 1,070 rapists who committed an average of 2.3 offences each."

I don't know where you're getting a "high 90% range" from.

But what with 25 or more separate agencies in this country alone cashing in on this "rehabilitation" scam, it's obvious there's money to be made from ensuring these people are kept on the streets through mis-informing the public.

that's not even an article on Ireland.... Where are you living???

Pumpkinseeds

Turtyturd wrote: »

They are also subject to assessment of their likelihood to reoffend before their release.

What about the case of a former client of one of the probation officers they were discussing? The guy who went to prison for rape, who then committed another rape when he got out, then went back to prison for rape and was currently awaiting trial for a rape he committed after getting out of prison after serving the second sentence for rape?

That's the sort of scumbag who shouldn't be released from prison, ever. I guarantee you that none of the people in his town/neighbourhood know that there is a serial rapist living among them. Unless guys like that have a guard following them 24 hours a day they will continue to commit rapes.


As for the sex offender who'd been thrown out of his hostel, talk about an attitude of entitlement. Demanding accommodation, automatically being put ahead of law abiding citizens, it's a disgrace that he takes priority and it's ridiculous to assume that if he's housed that he won't commit any further offences.

Paramite Pie

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I see the bleeding heart liberals are out tonight

Why is it always liberals who have 'bleeding hearts'..... my very conservative grandmother had a big ol' picture of Jesus with a bleeding heart on it... i think they called it a sacred heart or something?? Why don't we call catholic do gooders 'bleeding hearts'?

An over crowded prison is still safer than these scumbags on the streets, cram them in I say!!. But yeah, build more prisons.

smellmepower

Yeah, because warehousing vast swathes of the population in expensive prisons (instead of attempting to solve the issues that led them to crime in the first place and giving them at least a fighting chance of not re-offending) works so well in peaceful, utopian societies like America etc.

Do think that there should be a dedicated halfway house with strict conditions and monitoring for sex offenders for a certain period of time after release, until they prove they can be trusted out in society again. The situation where the convicted rapist ended up housed in a private room with a person who had no knowledge of his crime was pretty bad, and simply shouldn't happen.

Law14

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

What about the case of a former client of one of the probation officers they were discussing? The guy who went to prison for rape, who then committed another rape when he got out, then went back to prison for rape and was currently awaiting trial for a rape he committed after getting out of prison after serving the second sentence for rape?

That's the sort of scumbag who shouldn't be released from prison, ever. I guarantee you that none of the people in his town/neighbourhood know that there is a serial rapist living among them. Unless guys like that have a guard following them 24 hours a day they will continue to commit rapes.

I dont think this was actually on the show. The PO got a phone call to say that an offender he had years previous had committed another rape. I think you are getting two different people that were mentioned on the show mixed up or your mashing them into one person. The person who had committed another offence was out for a number of years.

Does anybody realise that there is massive amount of work put in by the PO and guards that this type of show would never show or see.
Also, The bad stories always get highlighted, (bad news/stories sell) for every bad story there is probably hundreds or more offenders out that just get on with their lives.

jellyboy

if it bleeds it reads ^^^

id like to see the show or newspaper reports that show people who have moved on to lead better ,fulling lives after their crimes and punishment

cloud493

Has this not been put on the RTE player? Cant find it anywhere.

Turtyturd

Law14 wrote: »

I dont think this was actually on the show. The PO got a phone call to say that an offender he had years previous had committed another rape. I think you are getting two different people that were mentioned on the show mixed up or your mashing them into one person. The person who had committed another offence was out for a number of years.

Does anybody realise that there is massive amount of work put in by the PO and guards that this type of show would never show or see.
Also, The bad stories always get highlighted, (bad news/stories sell) for every bad story there is probably hundreds or more offenders out that just get on with their lives.

Can't remember off hand but I think the latest recidivism report had a rate around 40%. So 6 out of every 10 get on fine on Probation, but it is the other 4 that everybody is interested in, and a lot of the time they are just bad referrals by Judges who will most likely reoffend no matter what.

Law14

Turtyturd wrote: »

Can't remember off hand but I think the latest recidivism report had a rate around 40%. So 6 out of every 10 get on fine on Probation, but it is the other 4 that everybody is interested in, and a lot of the time they are just bad referrals by Judges who will most likely reoffend no matter what.

That 40% rate? For what offence is that for?
The lowest recidivism rates are for murder and sexual offences which are low. The highest are for burglary which are about 80%.
I do be careful of figures been put out by some agencies because the way the calculate the data.
I work with Stats all the time and take the following:
If a person burgles 3 houses say, and then nicked. after release they may not break any law again, but they go into the recidivism figures as a repeat offender. Agencies may not state if they calculate the recidivism rate this way or once someone is released.

lms28

cloud493 wrote: »

Has this not been put on the RTE player? Cant find it anywhere.

I was looking for it, too. Still not there.

Would anybody know if there's a way to access this on the internet, somehow?

Pumpkinseeds

Law14 wrote: »

I dont think this was actually on the show. The PO got a phone call to say that an offender he had years previous had committed another rape. I think you are getting two different people that were mentioned on the show mixed up or your mashing them into one person. The person who had committed another offence was out for a number of years.

Does anybody realise that there is massive amount of work put in by the PO and guards that this type of show would never show or see.
Also, The bad stories always get highlighted, (bad news/stories sell) for every bad story there is probably hundreds or more offenders out that just get on with their lives.

I'm not mixing them up. I'm referring to the former 'client' of the probation officer, as I said in my post. The one who has 3 convictions for rape, that we know of. He may have commited other rapes that went unreported and he sure as Hell will continue to commit rapes when he's out.

Turtyturd

Law14 wrote: »

That 40% rate? For what offence is that for?
The lowest recidivism rates are for murder and sexual offences which are low. The highest are for burglary which are about 80%.
I do be careful of figures been put out by some agencies because the way the calculate the data.
I work with Stats all the time and take the following:
If a person burgles 3 houses say, and then nicked. after release they may not break any law again, but they go into the recidivism figures as a repeat offender. Agencies may not state if they calculate the recidivism rate this way or once someone is released.

40% is the average across offences, but as you say that varies across the categorizations.

Have never heard of recidivism being defined like that, surely that would pad out recidivism stats. Can't remember the definition they used for the study but for any research we do it's generally a new conviction in the 2-3 years following release.

jeffk

Just went to watch it on RTE player myself to no joy,very strange its not on(yet?)

Capt Picard

On recidivism rates and building more prisons:

After watching the programme the other night I think Prisons need to have more emphasis on rehabilitating prisoners rather than just punishing them. What is the point in just letting them serve their time only to be released with the same mindset or worse than they went in with? The high recidivism rates and crime rates in general show that punishment on its own accord simple does not deter them or others from engaging in criminal offenses.

My thinking on this is that the majority of say burglary and drug related offenders come from similar backgrounds, more often than not having low education and living in areas of high unemployment and poverty. So when they leave prison they go back to the same environment with the same influences and lifestyle. If they do not take up the voluntary courses or treatment available to them in prison then noting has changed for them, in fact their chances of securing employment are more or less gone and the stigma of being an offender further exacerbates their contempt for society or their place within it.

Building more prisons solves ****all, look at America! They have more prisons than any other country in the world (I think) yet their crime is rampant in the very same aforementioned areas. Dealing with why someone turns to crime in the first place is central and involves a complete change is how prisons operate, a lot more expensive though hence why ****all will be done but to continue with the current prison system.

--LOS--

cloud493 wrote: »

Has this not been put on the RTE player? Cant find it anywhere.

For some reason RTE never puts these shows up on the player, same with 'women on the inside'. I don't get it, they put similar types of shows up about other countries.

Pumpkinseeds

Capt Picard wrote: »

On recidivism rates and building more prisons:

After watching the programme the other night I think Prisons need to have more emphasis on rehabilitating prisoners rather than just punishing them. What is the point in just letting them serve their time only to be released with the same mindset or worse than they went in with? The high recidivism rates and crime rates in general show that punishment on its own accord simple does not deter them or others from engaging in criminal offenses.

My thinking on this is that the majority of say burglary and drug related offenders come from similar backgrounds, more often than not having low education and living in areas of high unemployment and poverty. So when they leave prison they go back to the same environment with the same influences and lifestyle. If they do not take up the voluntary courses or treatment available to them in prison then noting has changed for them, in fact their chances of securing employment are more or less gone and the stigma of being an offender further exacerbates their contempt for society or their place within it.

Building more prisons solves ****all, look at America! They have more prisons than any other country in the world (I think) yet their crime is rampant in the very same aforementioned areas. Dealing with why someone turns to crime in the first place is central and involves a complete change is how prisons operate, a lot more expensive though hence why ****all will be done but to continue with the current prison system.

They have opportunities to change when they're in prison, but many of them don't change and they don't want to change. We have 4 'sorry you are a victim of crime' letters. We know who was behind those crimes but because they are career criminals they know that if they wear a hoodie and cover their faces they won't be caught. The damage caused by their crimes has cost us a lot of money, we have had to make multiple insurance claims and the real kicker is that the cnuts get housed further up the street on RA at tax payer expense for them and their 6 kids.

Law14

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

They have opportunities to change when they're in prison, but many of them don't change and they don't want to change. We have 4 'sorry you are a victim of crime' letters. We know who was behind those crimes but because they are career criminals they know that if they wear a hoodie and cover their faces they won't be caught. The damage caused by their crimes has cost us a lot of money, we have had to make multiple insurance claims and the real kicker is that the cnuts get housed further up the street on RA at tax payer expense for them and their 6 kids.

I would partially agree that they have opportunities to change in prison, but i stress partially..
I have looked through some reports and while there is facilities, these are extremely limited.
Workshops in prisons I don't think really work, It should be more on education, psychology and other services.
I'd agree that the prison population largely comes from deprived areas. This means when a person goes into prison, they live by the culture of the system and influence of larger players. The are just thought and persuaded to commit worse crimes.
It is more expensive in economic terms to continue with present systems. As suggested above the expense of changing means it wont happen, well I would go one further, there is no public will for this change. As long as red-top media spits out the same guff and the attitude of people is to lock them up and throw away the keys, than no politician will touch it.

Lapin

Second part just starting now.

Turtyturd

Looks like it's just following the same bunch of PO's.

Would have been a better format to focus on different aspects of the service each week.