Formula 1 2014: Round 15 - Japanese Grand Prix (NO FOOTAGE OF THE CRASH ALLOWED)

dloob

v3ttel wrote: »

Wow, the impact is unbelievable. What the hell is the marshal doing waving a green flag about 10 meters away from the recovery vehicle? He continues to flutter even a couple of seconds after Bianchi's impact There has to be a serious investigation into that. It was supposed to be double waved yellows I thought?

Hope to God that he is ok and will make a full recovery. #ForzaJules

End of Yellow flag zone no problem there.

Sterling Archer

I've just watched that footage, I'm shocked at the impact speed, but also both those marshals are very lucky the weren't struck but Sutils car or the Recovery vehicle after the impact..

tunguska

Just saw the crash there and ****ing hell that was some impact. He was very lucky not to have been killed, its shocking because you get into this false sense of security aorund F1. You can sometimes forget inherently dangerous the sport is.

pegasus1

Just saw the impact myself.....god how did he survive even....totally shocked...heads will roll for sure...total disregard for safety for both the marshalls and drivers...

_rebelkid

Irish F1 blogger Ben Sweeney, former F1 Doctor Gary Hartsein, and Eddie Irvine are discussing the incident on the BBC World Service right now.


16:29 Just finished. If there's a recording of it online, I'll post it.

Mike Litoris

Man that is shocking. Hope he'll pull through ok. Another couple of inches to the left and I reckon he was a gonner. As mentioned above its a miracle a marshal wasn't hurt or killed.

Zcott

On the back of every Motorsport ticket it says in large print 'MOTORSPORT IS DANGEROUS'. Even with increased head protection, safety cells, crash tests, and runoff areas, accidents will still happen. And that is one particularly horrible one. Really hope Jules pulls through.

I can only imagine what the poor marshals will be going through as well.

mickdw

Just saw the crash.
I hoping the strength of the actual roll hoop might just have saved him.
By all accounts his helmet was intact. From that I would assume he went under with his helmet hiting the sloped under tray of the machine.
I think its pretty obvious that if his head met the corner of the machine, he would be dead.
Hopefully the roll hoop took alot of the force and gave him room underneath it, pushing the machine upward
I wouldnt read too much into the machine being pushed up in the air as a gauge as to the severity of the accident . It had the sauber lifted at the time and they use quite a long jib to carry the f1 cars so that machine wouldn't take alot to tip it up.
I realise that much of the roll hoop was gone but those forces involved in ripping that off might just have been enough to push the machine upwards and away from him if he didn't have an immediate impact with his head.

veganrun

Saw a comment by Villeneuve who reckons the safety car should automatically come out if there is an accident, same way it does in the US. Was wondering myself if it has been deployed straight away, would Bianchi have had his accent.

It might slow the race down and close the pack up but I would take that any day over someone being seriously injured like this.

Redo91

_rebelkid wrote: »

Irish F1 blogger Ben Sweeney, former F1 Doctor Gary Hartsein, and Eddie Irvine are discussing the incident on the BBC World Service right now.


16:29 Just finished. If there's a recording of it online, I'll post it.

Please do. I'd be interested in hearing that.

Zcott wrote: »

On the back of every Motorsport ticket it says in large print 'MOTORSPORT IS DANGEROUS'. Even with increased head protection, safety cells, crash tests, and runoff areas, accidents will still happen. And that is one particularly horrible one. Really hope Jules pulls through.

I can only imagine what the poor marshals will be going through as well.

And Sutil too. If he hadn't gone of the track in the first place none of this would have happened. Not blaming him in any way shape or form but I know if I was in his position I would feel a degree of responsibility.

ScumLord

veganrun wrote: »

Saw a comment by Villeneuve who reckons the safety car should automatically come out if there is an accident, same way it does in the US. Was wondering myself if it has been deployed straight away, would Bianchi have had his accent.

Even with a safety car this accident could still have had a chance to happen depending on where and when the safety car picked up the leader.

A double yellow with strict speed limits should be enough, all they need to do is slow the cars down to a crawl as they arrive at the accident. The warning would have to come over the radio to ensure the driver didn't miss the flags.

TheChrisD

wotswattage wrote: »

You see these types of barriers on motorway maintenance vehicles and I'm sure I've seen them on safety vehicles for oval tracks in the states too (though I can't find any evidence of the oval track ones).

Nope, you're confusing that for a sweeper installation at the end of some of the trucks to help clear excess Speedy Dry, if needed.

greedygoblin

ScumLord wrote: »

Even with a safety car this accident could still have had a chance to happen depending on where and when the safety car picked up the leader.

A double yellow with strict speed limits should be enough, all they need to do is slow the cars down to a crawl as they arrive at the accident. The warning would have to come over the radio to ensure the driver didn't miss the flags.

This would seem like the most sensible course of action. Given that visibility was very poor at the time, it questionable whether Bianchi or any other driver for that matter would have been able to see the waved yellows leading into Dunlop. Giving that notification over the radio could ensure the driver is left in no doubt.

This issue of recovery vehicles on the circuit while cars are going at or very close to racing speed has been an issue for a long time. Martin Brundle has been beating this drum for many years since his own near miss back in his racing days. More recently, Michael Schumacher had a lucky escape in Brazil back in the early 2000s. It's a pity that it has taken the FIA this length of time to address an issue which has been observed from many quarters to be a risk to driver safety.

Cookie_Monster

muckwarrior wrote: »

A lot of people talking about somehow making emergency vehicles safer if impacted, but that wouldn't address the fact that a car could still mow down a marshall. What's needed is a mechanism to somehow reliably slow down the cars in a certain area to the extent that there's no risk of a car losing control. As always, easier said than done.

like gravel traps you mean, which they've spent the last 10 years systematically removing...

Myrddin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

like gravel traps you mean, which they've spent the last 10 years systematically removing...

That's a good point. A gravel trap here would have changed the entire dynamic of the crash. I get that they're being removed to prevent cars from 'digging in' & flipping, & also to reward taking chances to pass etc...but I think in this particular instance, a gravel trap would have had a far better outcome.

ScumLord

Coulthard would always mention how unsafe he thought it was every time a tractor was on the track. You could almost feel the chill going down his spine whenever he said it in race commentary. It must be the scariest situation for a driver to be presented with. I can think of few things worse than one of those tractors to hit. The back of them is typically a lump of heavy solid steel to counterweight the lifting arm. There's nothing about them that's fragil.

wobbles

Jusr seen the videos as well. Sutils car was lifted by the JCB at the time and it was reversing back into opening in the fence. It was still in the gravel trap and the green flag was being waved. Once Bianchi hit the JCB, only then did it stop reversing. Had the JCB been 2 seconds later in reversing he would have missed it entirely. Had be been 2 seconds earlier he was gone under it completely. Scary stuff at how fast it happened.

A lot of questions have to be asked, the green flag was being waved at the marshal post when the JCB was still removing Sutils car, it was yellow then 10 seconds before the crash they waved green. It continued to be waved for 1 whole minute after the Bianchi crash up until safety car board went out. As far as I can remember, it was yellow flagged on TV the whole time. That itself is enough to cause doubt in the mind of the driver.

flazio

I seem to recall some commentator mentioning that the new low nose acts as a ramp up to a driver's head. I suspect that had the car had last year's nose it would have crumpled the tractor, not gone under it.

Ghost Train

wobbles wrote: »

A lot of questions have to be asked, the green flag was being waved at the marshal post when the JCB was still removing Sutils car, it was yellow then 10 seconds before the crash they waved green. It continued to be waved for 1 whole minute after the Bianchi crash up until safety car board went out. As far as I can remember, it was yellow flagged on TV the whole time. That itself is enough to cause doubt in the mind of the driver.

I think it would only be a concern if the same happened further down the track before the crash site. But I would say it's normal enough for a green flag to be waved just past the crash site. Once Sutils car was dragged back a few feet the Marshals post probably got a signal to say that they can wave green instead of yellow.

As far as I know the flag system is pretty advanced.
http://www.emmotorsport.com/portfolio/f1marshallingsystem

Don't drivers also gets light on the steering wheel when coming up to yellow flags so visibility and fading light would have been less a factor

flazio wrote: »

I seem to recall some commentator mentioning that the new low nose acts as a ramp up to a driver's head. I suspect that had the car had last year's nose it would have crumpled the tractor, not gone under it.

The back of tractor was still quite high, don't think the nose height was a factor really

ScumLord

flazio wrote: »

I seem to recall some commentator mentioning that the new low nose acts as a ramp up to a driver's head. I suspect that had the car had last year's nose it would have crumpled the tractor, not gone under it.

The back of that tractor is much higher than the nose of an F1 car. In the video the underside of the tractor starts pretty much at the height of the drivers head so a high nose would have done nothing to help.

Like I said, the back of these tractors is a solid lump of steel maybe a few feet thick. Nothing would crumple it.

Shane732

Just after seeing the crash there. The crash is pretty awful.

Did his head actually make contact with the JCB? Marshalls were very lucky to escape without accident.

It's hard to understand why the safety car didn't come out.

Will the on board footage come out?

Ghost Train

Shane732 wrote: »

It's hard to understand why the safety car didn't come out.

They were removing the car using double waved yellows (meaning drivers should be prepared to slow and stop if needed), would be normal enough procedure, immediately the second crash happened the marshals signaled for medical attention and safety car and medical car were sent out

iDave

Really hope a 20 year death free streak isn't broken

Shane732

Ghost Train wrote: »

They were removing the car using double waved yellows (meaning drivers should be prepared to slow and stop if needed), would be normal enough procedure, immediately the second crash happened the marshals signaled for medical attention and safety car and medical car were sent out

Fair enough but the first car was after aquaplaning, it was raining and there was poor visibility.

Safety cars are brought out at times for cars to be removed. If a safety car is going to be called out to remove a car then I think this instance would have been it.

walshb

Did Vettel take 3rd position? I thought he pitted juts before race stopped? The commentators spoke about Ricciardo getting another podium, but when the results were shown on screen, Vettel was given 3rd.

greedygoblin

walshb wrote: »

Did Vettel take 3rd position? I thought he pitted juts before race stopped? The commentators spoke about Ricciardo getting another podium, but when the results were shown on screen, Vettel was given 3rd.

When a race is stopped like that, the final positions are taken from the previous lap, and at that stage Vettel was still in third.

walshb

That was a desperate crash. I just saw it there on the dailymail site. Hope to god that young man survives and recovers well.

_rebelkid

BBC World Service. Bianchi section at the start.

just a comment - this is a very bad incident but why no links to the crash allowed. it's all over the internet (even on dailymail now) and it's not as if you can't go onto youtube and view all manner of horrible Russian car accidents if you really want to...

_rebelkid

glasso wrote: »

just a comment - this is a very bad incident but why no links to the crash allowed. it's all over the internet (even on dailymail now) and it's not as if you can't go onto youtube and view all manner of horrible Russian car accidents if you really want to...

Then go do that. Watch it if you want, but don't assume everyone wants to see it.

This thread has stayed out of the attention grabbing nature of "Exclusive crash pictures" and "new fan footage of huuuuuuge crash", and is all the better for it.